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Fate in general is very trashy, but they dropped the actual pornography after the original VN and now generally stick to the average level of dumbshit titillation you see in urban fantasy. It also benefits from having fun ideas with its premise, like how you can summon Vlad Tepes as a servant, but he's the historical Vlad Tepes of Wallachia who is deeply, deeply insulted by how history has conflated his actual life with the vampire myth of Dracula, and will actually kill you if you try to impose thar legend on him
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Dec 30, 2019 21:28
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Counterpoint: fate/zero is edgelord garbage for manchildren, where every female character only exists to die and suffer for the character arc of the male characters, and it is far and away the worst entry in fate behind the trashy magical girl spinoff that’s explicitly targeted at pedophiles Okay so I'll qualify that my only exposure to the Fate series is Fate/Zero. But yes, seriously. Fate/Zero is a loving insanely bad anime written by someone who has majorly weird issues with women. I watched the whole thing and I honestly couldn't tell you why I did. The ending is completely predictable from a mile away after just the first episode, even if you don't know that the grail is possessed by some sort of evil God or something? They talk up summoning King Arthur, make a big deal about how King Arthur is the most powerful summon, blah blah, they summon the king and oh nooo it's a woman. The main character is pissed about this for some reason. Artoria - the most powerful fighter you can summon - then gets nicked very slightly in a battle by Cu Chulainn (a man) and is out of combat action for practically the entire series. Half the loving show is scenes of different, male kings summoned from history sitting down and telling Artoria that she sucks and that she's the worst king ever and that she's a loser. It's honestly kind of shocking It was so bad that I have no interest in ever seeing anything in the Fate series or anything written by that guy (Gen Urobuchi) again. The fact that it was recommended to me as the best piece of Fate media is disconcerting to me. Casey Finnigan fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Dec 30, 2019 |
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Dec 30, 2019 21:32
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Leal posted:In before like 24 hour long rebuttal video. It turns out she doesn’t like it for the wrong reasons. I like Jenny but I wish she didn’t use that YouTube Constant Cut style of talking to camera. I think she’s the only person who uses it that I follow, because nobody else is tolerable enough to get away with it.
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Dec 30, 2019 21:35
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:I can imagine the demographic for these games very clearly, gross It's a really popular mobile game now, so in Japan at least the demo is basically anybody at this point.
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Dec 30, 2019 21:43
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get that OUT of my face posted:
i'm glad someone put solseraph on their worst games list, holy gently caress that thing is awful and it's made by fuckin ace team, a dev that has a history of making great poo poo, so i dunno what the gently caress happened with that game. maybe it's because ace team usually comes up with their own insane weird poo poo so when they tried to make something that was a spiritual successor to something made by someone else they didn't know what to do with themselves or some poo poo, i dunno, all that matters is solseraph is a trash fire.
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Dec 30, 2019 21:44
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The really irritating thing about Zero is that it’s trying to be shocking, as the edgy hired killer protagonist is the adopted dad and inspiration for the hyper-idealistic protagonist of the original fate/stay night, but it tries SO HARD that it just overshoots entirely into being a big loving garbage pile of assholes doing rear end in a top hat poo poo just to make each other feel bad
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Dec 30, 2019 21:45
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I can't fathom the level of sexualization of underage teenagers in Japanese media. But then again I think a woman hasn't bloomed until she's hit 45.
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Dec 30, 2019 21:47
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Fate in general is very trashy, but they dropped the actual pornography after the original VN and now generally stick to the average level of dumbshit titillation you see in urban fantasy. It also benefits from having fun ideas with its premise, like how you can summon Vlad Tepes as a servant, but he's the historical Vlad Tepes of Wallachia who is deeply, deeply insulted by how history has conflated his actual life with the vampire myth of Dracula, and will actually kill you if you try to impose thar legend on him Ok, look. I don't mind that people enjoy Fate, everyone is allowed to enjoy their problematic garbage at their discretion. I'm not going to tell anyone off for that specifically. But let's not pretend the Fate animated series actually has thought out ideas or interesting twists on it's premises. Fate contradicts or invalidates the rules of it's premise constantly and then just forgets about it. Even the thing with Vlad Tepes is hugely underdeveloped and serves more as some kind of character trait/plot convenience than anything else. It's the same thing with making Jack the Ripper not a real historical person but rather a kind of vengeful amalgam spirit of dead Victorian newborns, it's introduced in dramatic fashion and resolved almost instantly, it barely has time to be an interesting idea before it poofs out of existence again to let the main plot trundle forward. Clerical Terrors fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Dec 30, 2019 |
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Dec 30, 2019 21:52
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Inspector Gesicht posted:I can't fathom the level of sexualization of underage teenagers in Japanese media. But then again I think a woman hasn't bloomed until she's hit 45. the solution to being weird about girls isn't being weird about women
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Dec 30, 2019 21:58
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Imagine using the word "bloomed" to refer to people.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:08
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Inspector Gesicht posted:I can't fathom the level of sexualization of underage teenagers in Japanese media. But then again I think a woman hasn't bloomed until she's hit 45. wicked normal comment, dude
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Dec 30, 2019 22:10
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a cartoon duck posted:the solution to being weird about girls isn't being weird about women Well I have some skeletons in my closet that used to be roomates that would disagree with you! Now that I've typed that, I wish skeleton apocalypses had been a thing instead of it always being zombies.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:11
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"Why do these backwards Orientals keep sexualizing underage maidens?" -Western goons with no knowledge of their own culture or history.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:13
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People age like a fine wine. Or in the case of people on the internet, whine 
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Dec 30, 2019 22:15
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You guys were just talking about what seems to be some weird sort of sex game
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Dec 30, 2019 22:15
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Casey Finnigan posted:Okay so I'll qualify that my only exposure to the Fate series is Fate/Zero. Zero kinda works in context to the original series but it's a giant mess and basically anyone who suggests it as 'the only good fate series' is an idiot who only cares about things looking 'badass' or 'cool' Sucks it soured you on checking out the rest of the franchise but I frankly don't blame you.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:16
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RareAcumen posted:Now that I've typed that, I wish skeleton apocalypses had been a thing instead of it always being zombies. There was some indie roguelike I can't remember the name of (Rogue Survivor, maybe?) where Zombie enemies would evolve over time into increasingly capable skeletons. Clearly a game made for SA.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:18
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People keep bringing up the fact that it had porn in its 2004 release like some big sick own when it was done entirely because selling VNs for PC without ero content was extremely risky and having 1 sex scene per 50 hours of reading means that I don't think anyone bought or read it for the porn. Just a hunch. Especially with it being excised from every release since and the author doesn't consider that version canon anymore.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:18
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Okay I clearly wasn't paying that much attention so don't listen to me. Admittedly I haven't taken Fate seriously since when I watched the first anime in high school. Zero and UBW stuck out because they are pretty good looking, as Type-Moon makes some very nice looking stuff.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:18
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Changing the subject matter, how could Star Wars 9 have fared with a different, less cowardly creative-lead? A movie that actively follows 8 instead of disregarding its existence? I don't buy the idea that 8 setup 9 for failure when there's a ton of movies that are good on their own and are also sequels to to works that weren't all that good: Star Trek II, Thor: Ragnarok, Bumblebee, Logan, Mission Impossible...
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Dec 30, 2019 22:25
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Japan is not unique in sexualizing underage teenagers.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:26
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I'm sorry to have started the Fate derail. I just can't help it, as an history nerd and anime lover, it's like catnip to me.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:26
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There are two kinds of anime. Those that are Legend of Galactic Heroes, and those that are not.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:28
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The only good Fate thing is the cooking manga spinoff.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:28
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Like 1/3rd of the fanbase is female and a fourth is under eighteen, by the mobile game's own metrics. I'm not interested in arguing about whether or not it's objectively good, but let's not pretend it like, only appeals to stereotypical anime nerds or something, it's pretty normal.MonsieurChoc posted:I'm sorry to have started the Fate derail. Inspector Gesicht posted:Changing the subject matter, how could Star Wars 9 have fared with a different, less cowardly creative-lead? A movie that actively follows 8 instead of disregarding its existence? I don't buy the idea that 8 setup 9 for failure when there's a ton of movies that are good on their own and are also sequels to to works that weren't all that good: Star Trek II, Thor: Ragnarok, Bumblebee, Logan, Mission Impossible...
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Dec 30, 2019 22:31
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If JJ didn’t want his mystery boxes kicked over, perhaps he could have actually put something in them to help weigh them down. TV series have these things called Series Bibles that lay out important information and planned plot points, so that members of the creative team can work in the space of the story without contradicting major set pieces andtwists the lead creative has planned. Perhaps he could have made such a thing before loving off from the project after TFA with no intentions of returning!
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Dec 30, 2019 22:39
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just finished mandalorian. id say that and fallen order are the best star wars things in the last decade.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:40
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:If JJ didn’t want his mystery boxes kicked over, perhaps he could have actually put something in them to help weigh them down. TV series have these things called Series Bibles that lay out important information and planned plot points, so that members of the creative team can work in the space of the story without contradicting major set pieces andtwists the lead creative has planned. Perhaps he could have made such a thing before loving off from the project after TFA with no intentions of returning! J Jabrams doesn't actually know how to write anything interesting, he just knows how to create the negative space where interesting things might happen. He was basically the worst pick to finish a trilogy.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:40
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J's Reviews with a retrospective on season 1 of Batman Beyond, probably the only Darker and Edgier cartoon from then that actually pulled it off well.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:42
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:If JJ didn’t want his mystery boxes kicked over, perhaps he could have actually put something in them to help weigh them down. TV series have these things called Series Bibles that lay out important information and planned plot points, so that members of the creative team can work in the space of the story without contradicting major set pieces andtwists the lead creative has planned. Perhaps he could have made such a thing before loving off from the project after TFA with no intentions of returning!
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Dec 30, 2019 22:43
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Changing the subject matter, how could Star Wars 9 have fared with a different, less cowardly creative-lead? A movie that actively follows 8 instead of disregarding its existence? I don't buy the idea that 8 setup 9 for failure when there's a ton of movies that are good on their own and are also sequels to to works that weren't all that good: Star Trek II, Thor: Ragnarok, Bumblebee, Logan, Mission Impossible... Following up on TLJ would mean keeping Kylo as the primary antagonist and focusing on what his rule and inevitable downfall would mean for the universe going forward.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:46
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Casey Finnigan posted:
In my experience the best-regarded bit of Fate is Fate/Extra CCC. Of course, that's the expansion/sequel/alternate path rerelease of the PSP game, also on PSP, and wasn't translated. So, y'know, probably some inflation from the community due to inaccessibility there. Although the original release of Fate/Extra is pretty solid, sort of an RPG with a Suikoden-like duel system as the only combat. It certainly seems more grounded and less beholden to fanservice tropes than the VNs, so it's probably a better entry point than most (ignoring, y'know, that it's a limited-release PSP game, although it might be on the PSN?)
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Dec 30, 2019 22:47
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CmdrKing posted:In my experience the best-regarded bit of Fate is Fate/Extra CCC. Of course, that's the expansion/sequel/alternate path rerelease of the PSP game, also on PSP, and wasn't translated. So, y'know, probably some inflation from the community due to inaccessibility there. PSP games are super plug-and-play to emulate at least
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Dec 30, 2019 22:51
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Re: Fate chat, from my experience with the first VN the truly awful porn is somehow not as off-putting as the powerlevel technobabble that makes up the action scenes. Does the series get better on this?
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Dec 30, 2019 22:52
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It wasn't Cu Cullain summoned in Zero, but the other Irish hero. Diarmuid Ua Duibhne; Cu is summoned into the OG Fate series.Clerical Terrors posted:Ok, look. I don't mind that people enjoy Fate, everyone is allowed to enjoy their problematic garbage at their discretion. I'm not going to tell anyone off for that specifically. To be clear you're referring specifically to Apocrypha. Which is not a particularly well written entry into the TYPE-MOON nasu-verse and is written by someone who is not Nasu. I think it makes sense for Vlad to not be particularly developed, because as a consistent point, "real" mages like Darnic (Unlike fakes like Shirou, softies like Rin, or second rate mages like glasses kid) just view Servants as disposable weapons that they've pilfered for their own human ends. All that mattered to Darnic was by summoning Vlad in Romania it powered up Vlad immensely, and once Vlad was no longer useful to him disposed of him using command seals. The degree in which being forcefully transformed into a monster, the extent in which it was an act of utter profanity; a violation, and defilement is not well executed; but there was enough to work with, Vlad didn't really need additional development because his role was limited to begin with and served to illustrate a point. You have a large cast of ensemble characters, especially in Apoc which has twice the number of characters but around half the available screentime. Other Fate works that have more room to breath or have more direct supervision from Nasu are much better in executing on "setting up rules and then breaking them" which sets up the driving force of most of the conflict and thematic tension in the series. It isn't really fair to say that Fate invalidates or forgets the rules of its premises. While its true you can think of Fate typically as something like a tabletop urban fantasy rpg as the backdrop, but those rules and mechanics serve a grander overall narrative purposes and obey things like themes, symbolism, and pacing first and foremost. As an example, as a "rule" a regular human, heck, the most powerful human in existence today cannot beat even the weakest Servant. Not as a "hard" rule, but "generally"; the original Fate hammers this home. Rin has no chance at escaping Cu Cullain in the fight in the courtyard of her school, Archer needed to intervene. Shirou could block a single strike with the element of surprise from Cu's spear; Kotomine Kirei can barely escape Caster, Illyasviel doesn't even bother trying to defend herself against Gilgamesh. But the climax of all Fate and UBW, and the Bad End of Heaven's Feel all have Shirou thanks to the planets aligning juuuuust right because of narrative and themes of the story converging to provide that singular exception to that rule that only really works because of those specific circumstances. But those circumstances aren't really important, things like Shirou's resolve and character development and the events of the plot and the meaning behind his actions and choices leading up to that moment clearly matter far more. So Fate does typically setup rules and then break or bend them pretty often, but always in service of a greater cohesive and coherent narrative purpose where it all fits together. Often with heavy amounts of foreshadowing; such as Zetrech intradimensional shenanigans first introduced in Fate but only truly paying off in Heaven's Feel. Which only happened because of Illya and Rin working together and so on. So insofar as other Fate works tend to come off as elaborate "inmates running the aslyum" fanfics, where sometimes it feels like "Hey wouldn't it be cool if..." I agree that Apoc and some others are weaker, but I don't agree that its true that Fate as a setting doesn't have "thought out ideas or interesting twists on it's premises." In a similar vein, the Order of the Stick which uses much more explicit RPG mechanics directly as its backdrop, also only uses them to enrich a narrative; and never has mechanics trump plot. Whereas the Nasu verse just uses rpg mechanics as a metaphor or as an understandable reference point for their audience.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:55
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Vince Gilligan's writing team has a vague plan but they always deviates from it when a better idea comes along. The existence of Mike was a happy-accident and they gave us the flash-forward of Walt buying an M50 before they had even decided who he was going to shoot at. Judging by the documentary that shows the writers room what stands out is that when they make a promise they stick by it, and Gilligan will stand down when one his proposed story-ideas flies like a lead balloon. In El Camino he softballed an ending where Jesse sacrifices his freedom to save some new character. Everyone in the writer's room hated it so it didn't happen. TV is a highly variable medium where no plan is safe from a wrench being thrown at it. Every episode and every season has to be good by itself. When Sherlock ended people some fans believed there was an upcoming secret episode that would be so good it'd retroactively make the last two seasons of the show not-poo poo.
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Dec 30, 2019 22:56
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Endorph posted:the only historical thing i know anything about is three kingdoms china so im stuck with a sexy centaur and zhuge liang if he was stuck in the head of a british 30-something There's also Chen Gong, who's the basically the "Some of you will die and this is a sacrifice I'm willing to make" guy.
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Dec 30, 2019 23:00
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Chen Gong was my favorite dude in Dynasty Warriors 8, that guy's like peak evil chancellor
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Dec 30, 2019 23:07
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YaketySass posted:Re: Fate chat, from my experience with the first VN the truly awful porn is somehow not as off-putting as the powerlevel technobabble that makes up the action scenes. Does the series get better on this?
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Dec 30, 2019 23:08
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Also Fate generally sticks to the core rules of “heroic spirits are more powerful the older they are, the more famous they are, and how close they are to their homeland,” so a servant like, say, Heracles, is always gonna be a significantly bigger threat than someone like Billy the Kid, but that doesn’t necessarily say that a properly equipped servant or mage couldn’t pull some shenanigans to keep from getting pasted.
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Dec 30, 2019 23:14
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