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Plenty of blame to go around. But I was always comfortable with laying ultimate responsibility for any problems with the franchise since 2015 squarely on The Walt Disney Corporation.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:01
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Pollyanna posted:Take this with a boulder of salt, but there are more details coming out on how this movie was put together. a lot of that seems fake as hell
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Jan 2, 2020 08:05
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Yeah, sounds like the movie JJ wanted to make would have also been bad, but at least everyone involved would have been way happier with it. I really don't like JJ as a filmmake,r but he really seems inoffensive as a person and I wish the people who worked on the movie had gotten the movie they wanted. Even if I'd still laugh at how abd it was.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:06
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JJ should start posting images from his cut on Vero, otherwise I don't believe any of that poo poo. [edit] Except like, the obvious Iger meddling because lol Disney.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:07
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I have to admit I do enjoy the conspiracy theory that Disney wanted to ruin Abrams' reputation with this movie so that he would never go on to make a good Superman movie.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:10
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Clarste posted:I have to admit I do enjoy the conspiracy theory that Disney wanted to ruin Abrams' reputation with this movie so that he would never go on to make a good Superman movie. tros wouldnt stop WB from hiring him in a heartbeat
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Jan 2, 2020 08:12
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Pollyanna posted:Disney insisted on more fan service, less controversy. This is the only really believable thing from that list.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:13
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Ammanas posted:tros wouldnt stop WB from hiring him in a heartbeat He signed a fatty deal with WB a little while ago, before TROS hit theaters.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:13
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Clarste posted:I have to admit I do enjoy the conspiracy theory that Disney wanted to ruin Abrams' reputation with this movie so that he would never go on to make a good Superman movie. There was never any risk of him making a good Superman movie.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:14
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Pollyanna posted:Take this with a boulder of salt, but there are more details coming out on how this movie was put together. None of that saves this movie. Even with tighter editing and better crafted context to plot points its a crap story arc. gohmak fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 08:15
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Bongo Bill posted:There was never any risk of him making a good Superman movie. That's the joke.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:16
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None of that is surprising. Does anyone really doubt that Disney clamped down on creative freedom in response to the fan backlash, or that JJ’s director’s cut somehow manages to sound worse? Force ghosts are dumb as hell and were a mistake even in the OT.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:16
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The leaker is definitely JJ or his personal assistant and most of that list is lol terrible.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:18
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I will say the Lando-Jannah scene and Finn’s “I have something to tell you!” plot thread were extremely bizarre and definitely reek of cut content.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:18
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SleepCousinDeath posted:Yes, the war parts in Star Wars aren’t important, as evident by the ending of ANH, the beginning of ESB and the majority of ROTJ The conflicts and interactions between the characters are what make it, not because they're happening during a war. The "war" parts don't have much weight and are just dope rear end flashy show pieces (and they own). You care more about Luke/Han/Leia winning rather than the Rebels winning. The war really doesn't matter. 2house2fly posted:I don't believe it is. Leia wasn't tortured by Han and Padme wasn't tortured by Anakin, unless you count having to listen to him say George Lucas dialogue Padme was chill with Anakin having murdered a tribe of people, probably had her dripping. Seems like doing bad poo poo gets people going in Star Wars. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 2, 2020 08:18
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gohmak posted:None of that saves this movie. Lord no it doesn't. The ideal JJ cut would still have blown chunks. But Disney just had to muck with it, of course.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:22
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MonsieurChoc posted:Yeah, sounds like the movie JJ wanted to make would have also been bad, but at least everyone involved would have been way happier with it. I always say JJ is a poo poo writer, mediocre director at best, but fantastic producer - and it’s because he’s a normal goddamn human being and is extremely loyal to the people he employs, the rarest thing in capitalism. This is a guy who got studios into a bidding war over a script two Bad Robot employees wrote and got those two a million-dollar payday just by saying “hey this is a great script and someone should really buy it”. Matt Reeves is an internal promotion, going from being one of JJ’s regular episode directors on Felicity to being given Cloverfield and look at where Reeves has gone since then! He’s got a keen eye for someone else’s work being something special and is good at keeping junior executives trying to butt their way into taking claim for something by forcing dumb ideas into the production at bay. Also after the strange pattern of stories specifically poisoning the reputations of directors that the Mouse House runs aground against and/or people just seeming to up and leave the industry after dealing with them - has anyone even heard from Gareth Edwards since Rogue One? Dude dropped off the planet, and he seemed very excited and prepared for a good long career in the wake of Godzilla - you’d think people might wake up to maybe thinking that any, like, Hollywood Reporter story saying “so and so kicked puppies on the set of Moon Knight 6 and was drunk every night and hitting on extras” is probably absolute trash without actual physical proof in hand to go along with it. Not that I buy most of that article, but there is probably nuggets of truth sprinkled in here and there.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:23
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Clarste posted:I have to admit I do enjoy the conspiracy theory that Disney wanted to ruin Abrams' reputation with this movie so that he would never go on to make a good Superman movie. i can't decide if my favorite part is 'china ruined the climax by banning certain shades of blue' or 'disney pressured JJ into making rey and kylo kiss because they're afraid of the reylo fandom'
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Jan 2, 2020 08:28
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I mean Disney is legitimately afraid of the Rocky Horror people, can you really put it past them to be afraid of Reylo shippers
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Jan 2, 2020 08:32
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Most of that seems fake as hell but the idea that there was a 3 hour cut that got pared down makes sense to me, because I can't believe even JJ would pace a movie that frenetically. It actually does play a lot like any character scenes were removed in favour of action, and even without conspiracy theories I could believe some Disney execs cut down the film with a focus on merch because 3+ hour movies mean less screenings per day and I'm sure that they were worried this one wouldn't perform as well as previous entries into the saga.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:33
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Whoever at Disney was like, no, we need this to be one movie instead of two seems both completely believable as far as that list is concerned, but still unbelievable as far as the voice in my head shouting "its free money" is concened. drat shame the list says nothing about all the dumb story bullshit or new stupid force powers
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Jan 2, 2020 08:35
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What’s the current narrative around TROS right now in the general public, anyway? Masterpiece, flawed romp, disaster?
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Jan 2, 2020 08:38
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Clarste posted:I like how even in the super sympathetic bullet list, the movie they describe doesn't sound very good. And this story reflects the themes of TLJ very directly.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:44
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Imagine having to sit through an entire extra hour (or even multiple hours stretched across another movie!) of that terrible movie
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Jan 2, 2020 08:49
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Pollyanna posted:What’s the current narrative around TROS right now in the general public, anyway? Masterpiece, flawed romp, disaster? forgettable
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Jan 2, 2020 08:52
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They public has to remember a movie to have a general opinion on it
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Jan 2, 2020 08:56
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The Cameo posted:I always say JJ is a poo poo writer, mediocre director at best, but fantastic producer - and it’s because he’s a normal goddamn human being and is extremely loyal to the people he employs, the rarest thing in capitalism. This is a guy who got studios into a bidding war over a script two Bad Robot employees wrote and got those two a million-dollar payday just by saying “hey this is a great script and someone should really buy it”. Matt Reeves is an internal promotion, going from being one of JJ’s regular episode directors on Felicity to being given Cloverfield and look at where Reeves has gone since then! He’s got a keen eye for someone else’s work being something special and is good at keeping junior executives trying to butt their way into taking claim for something by forcing dumb ideas into the production at bay. I don't mind JJ giving small roles to his friends. I would!
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Jan 2, 2020 09:04
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Oh, so JJ feels bad because Star Wars turned into his worst nightmare? HAHAHA! I feel zero sympathy for him after that asshat and his chucklefuck buddies, Kurtzman and Orci, hosed up Star Trek.
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Jan 2, 2020 09:23
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MonsieurChoc posted:I don't mind JJ giving small roles to his friends. I would! I think people are more bothered that it’s the same guy every time, and he gives him lines. And giving Dom Monaghan all the exposition lines while Kelly Marie Tran’s like “so, um, why did you even bring me back?” Nobody’s going to complain about seeing Keri Russell again, though. She’s got enough of a presence to feel like a wink but not like JJ squeezing one eye shut repeatedly like he’s poorly trying to pick up some bridesmaid across the floor at a wedding reception.
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Jan 2, 2020 09:29
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Papercut posted:The leaker is definitely JJ or his personal assistant and most of that list is lol terrible. The mental gymnastics necessary to make JJ some put upon visionary would be incredible in a vacuum, much less in a world where we can see JJ's previous works.
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Jan 2, 2020 09:31
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The Cameo posted:Also after the strange pattern of stories specifically poisoning the reputations of directors that the Mouse House runs aground against and/or people just seeming to up and leave the industry after dealing with them - has anyone even heard from Gareth Edwards since Rogue One? Dude dropped off the planet, and he seemed very excited and prepared for a good long career in the wake of Godzilla - you’d think people might wake up to maybe thinking that any, like, Hollywood Reporter story saying “so and so kicked puppies on the set of Moon Knight 6 and was drunk every night and hitting on extras” is probably absolute trash without actual physical proof in hand to go along with it. IIRC Edwards was saying in interviews before Rogue One even came out that he was taking a long break from Hollywood and that's why he left the Godzilla sequel that became King of the Monsters. I don't doubt that the clusterfuck that was Rogue One production was a big part of why he decided to take a break.
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Jan 2, 2020 10:11
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PJOmega posted:The mental gymnastics necessary to make JJ some put upon visionary would be incredible in a vacuum, much less in a world where we can see JJ's previous works. Hey, how many people are brave enough to put so much lens flare in a movie that it's impossible to see what's going on?   And obligatory joke entry 
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Jan 2, 2020 10:19
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Baronash posted:JJ Abrams would be the worst person to play a "yes, and..." improv game with. Apparently he was the best untrained celebrity improviser ever on the Ben Schwartz UCB stage show Snowpants. But I digress...
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Jan 2, 2020 10:36
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JJ generally makes perfectly entertaining dumb action movies. I have no doubt that Disney alone ruined RoS.
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Jan 2, 2020 10:36
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Much as other posters have said it sounds like the JJ cut wouldn't have been good? The Jedi force ghost thing is pointless fanservice, the Han being Leia's sending sounds awful and stupid, I don't buy that this is going to permanently destroy JJ's career so he never makes a good Superman movie (remember, the writer wrote the abomination that was Batman v Superman and still gets hired), and a lot of this stuff just seems bad. I'm noticing that the decision to bring back Sheev was not a part of the meddling and I think it's still one of the worst decisions this movie makes.
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Jan 2, 2020 10:43
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sigher posted:The conflicts and interactions between the characters are what make it, not because they're happening during a war. The "war" parts don't have much weight and are just dope rear end flashy show pieces (and they own). You care more about Luke/Han/Leia winning rather than the Rebels winning. The war really doesn't matter. A New Hope is literally a farm boy achieving his dream of joining a uniformed military battling Space Hitler. There is then a long segment stolen directly from a WW2 movie. Then Luke gets a medal in a big medal ceremony as the uniformed military he joins celebrates winning their battle to destroy Space Hitler's Space Genocide Weapon. The tangled web of incestuous character focus that filled the sequel trilogy doesn't even get started until ESB, and Luke's climactic personal scene has literally no impact on the War section of ROTJ. The Emperor considers the attack to be merely a helpful friends-killing backdrop for his project of converting Luke, and the Emperor is *wrong*! He loses the space war. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 11:27
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Johnson, Lucas, Abrams... How many cuts can this movie have?
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Jan 2, 2020 12:52
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In mine it rolls the credits after Rey murders Chewbacca.
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Jan 2, 2020 12:56
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Much as other posters have said it sounds like the JJ cut wouldn't have been good? First off, how dare you, BvS was great, you philistine Second, I totally believe that Disney hosed with the production and had dumbass mandates because they're terrified of fan reactions. Would JJ have made a good Star Wars movie if given free reign? Eeeh, doubtful. But it probably would have been an improvement over the current mess. Would also explain why the cast are all making GBS threads on Star Wars now too, they're fed up with Disneys bullshit too. teagone posted:JJ should start posting images from his cut on Vero, otherwise I don't believe any of that poo poo. lol yeah I was thinking "this all sounds very familiar" sponges posted:JJ generally makes perfectly entertaining dumb action movies. I have no doubt that Disney alone ruined RoS. Not just RoS.So far they're 4 for 4
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Jan 2, 2020 12:56
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Rogue One is a Star Wars movie with the premise “what if Star Wars sucked and was boring?” And I do t get why people like it. It’s a butchered film that’s barely got legs and you can smell the corporate meddling in every cut. It’s just a big beige yawn. Has a few good shots and introduces some of the freshest of late-capitalist grave robbing movie hell features. Just vile.
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Jan 2, 2020 13:37
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