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feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004
Despite having careers, they both struggled to escape typecasting and the baggage associated with their relationship to the franchise. They've both talked very openly about it.

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Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003

La morte non ha sesso

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Leia merges her mind with Kylo’s before Rey stabs him. This kills Leia’s body, as we see, but she has uploaded herself into Kylo’s head - and communicates to him in the guise of Han. So to repeat, for those not keeping track: Harrison Ford plays Princess Leia, disguised as Han Solo, inside the mind of Kylo Ren - who is himself inside the mind of Rey, who is her own grandpa. At the end of the film, Rey also pays respect to Owen and Beru Lars, therefore literally becoming the female Luke she figuratively was at the start.

This is the good poo poo. This is the Zardoz poo poo. If you want to do something to undermine “bloodlines”, this is miles beyond just saying Rey’s folks were poor.

Other stuff is less important. Yes all the action scenes suck. Yes, entire sections of the film are obviously presented in the wrong order, as if they got the reels mixed up. But this contributes to the idea that the usual laws of chronology no longer apply, and the storytelling becomes analogous to how the Falcon now travels exclusively by smashing directly into multiple planets at full speed.
The snake that eats its own tail, forever and ever. I know where I came from--but where did all you zombies come from? You aren't really there at all. There's only me, Sheev, here alone in the dark.

I miss you dreadfully!

No Mods No Masters
Oct 3, 2004

Miniscule brain: palpatine was finally destroyed by rey

Medium brain: palpatine possessed rey

Large brain: palpatine was always already rey

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

feedmyleg posted:

Despite having careers, they both struggled to escape typecasting and the baggage associated with their relationship to the franchise. They've both talked very openly about it.

"When my agent arranged a lunch meeting between me and this Oscar-winning director, the director told me he had considered it heavily but didn't want me as the star of his movie. This sure would have turned out differently if I was a nameless actor at an open audition with a couple of television credits to my name."

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth

feedmyleg posted:

Despite having careers, they both struggled to escape typecasting and the baggage associated with their relationship to the franchise. They've both talked very openly about it.

The motorcycle accident did more to harm prettyboy Mark Hammil's career. Cocaine and booze did the rest. He was lucky to have Star Wars.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

No Mods No Masters posted:

Miniscule brain: palpatine was finally destroyed by rey

Medium brain: palpatine possessed rey

Large brain: palpatine was always already rey

You have always been here.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003

La morte non ha sesso
Currently, the thing about Episode IX that I keep thinking about is that it makes the entire nine-film series into Sheev's Story.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Halloween Jack posted:

Currently, the thing about Episode IX that I keep thinking about is that it makes the entire nine-film series into Sheev's Story.

Episodes 7 and 8 are just killing time in dorne

Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006

sassassin posted:

The motorcycle accident did more to harm prettyboy Mark Hammil's career. Cocaine and booze did the rest. He was lucky to have Star Wars.

Not to sound naive because I know everyone was whoopin it up in the 70s and 80s (see: Mark's anecdote about partying with Monty Python the morning before Cloud City shoots) but I've also heard him tell it that he was at home with his family relatively more so than Harrison and Carrie


edit:

Halloween Jack posted:

Currently, the thing about Episode IX that I keep thinking about is that it makes the entire nine-film series into Sheev's Story.

In the end this is actually the Palpatine Saga yeah

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN

No Mods No Masters posted:

Miniscule brain: palpatine was finally destroyed by rey

Medium brain: palpatine possessed rey

Large brain: palpatine was always already rey

This is actually accurate, except it's more that Rey was all along Palpatine, in the sense that Evil Empress Rey Palpatine from the vision is literally her future self. Palpatine the onscreen ghoul is functionally another voice in her head, pushing her to become 'who she is meant to be'.

The stuff about bloodlines is metaphorical. When Rey is referred to as "a Palpatine", it's in the same sense that we informally refer to any patchwork monster as "a Frankenstein." A Palpatine is the specific kind of monster Rey is. In another universe, she might be a Dracula or a wolfman.

If you track the plot, we are dealing with predestination. Palpatine sent the assassin to kill Rey's parents with that specific dagger because he knew it would eventually lead her to that specific hilltop where things line up. But narratively, again, Palpatine is functionally just a voice in her head. What this predestination stands for is Rey's desire to ascend and become dark queen of the universe. When people get in her way, or she tries to stop herself, Rey unconsciously lashes out and nearly kills them. So why not give into it? That's ultimately the perverse advice from Luke Ghost: 'don't resist it. Go to Palpatine.'

Interestingly, ROS specifically retcons Old Luke's backstory from the last two films. No Jedi Temple or New Republic. Now we're told that Luke went on an identical journey to confront Palpatine, but ultimately got scared and commited suicide. This is way better!

Space Fish
Oct 14, 2008

The original Big Tuna.


Apologies if this has come up before, but how many takebacks are there in TROS? Specifically, within the confines of TROS itself, and not taking back from Last Jedi or elsewhere. Not even in a "subversive" way, but just stepping back what could have been an interesting or at least influential consequence for the sake of maintaining TROS's theme-park meaninglessness. For instance:

-Chewie dies on a transport - nevermind, different transport! Even if other characters watched him get on that transport and we never saw another one.
-C-3PO has his memory erased - nevermind, R2 kept a backup! And nobody else thought to make one?
-Leia uses her remaining life energy to help Rey fight Kylo - nevermind, she doesn't fade into Jedi Valhalla until much later so that Maz can smile down at her.
-There's only one Wayfinder and Kylo destroys it to force Rey closer - nevermind, there was a second one.
-The Holdo Manever's effectiveness is too rare to risk as a regular military tactic - nevermind, it works above Endor.
-Nü Sheev will use the Final Order fleet to take out the remaining three planets that could stand against him... but he doesn't want any of them to leave the driveway without GPS activated, even though they could just agree to meet up at Tattooine or whatever afterward. (less of a takeback, but still feels contradictory)

Separately, I can't help but laugh at how smugly TROS whines about TLJ. "Guess I'll just exile myself to an island and never help anyone again because good intentions are bullshit, that was Luke's parting lesson and nothing else, gently caress you Rian, heroes should beat up bad guys and smile more."
Chris Terrio, off to the side: "Oh, I listened the first time."

Space Fish fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jan 3, 2020

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003

La morte non ha sesso
To that you must add the plot points that were implied to be meaningful and then just go nowhere, like the Knights of Ren being nothing. Solo was full of that sort of thing.

Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006

In my earlier post-TFA posts in that thread I noted that the KoR were kinda parallel to the bounty hunters in Empire - the Vader analog's henchmen that seemingly work outside the military. But that all got tied up in mystery boxes to the point that they were compelled to use them again. If they were just set dressing like in Empire that almost could have worked. No one is made that Dengar didn't show up in ROTJ

Although he should have, that mummy gently caress

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Space Fish posted:

-The Holdo Manever's effectiveness is too rare to risk as a regular military tactic - nevermind, it works above Endor.

It was weird that they felt the need to even discuss that; the "Holdo maneuver" isn't useful as a regular military tactic because it requires building up the hyperdrive and being within a certain window of distance, using a big ship (of which the Resistance in ROS has none) which is annihilated in the process. In TLJ it wasn't some epic stroke of military genius, it was a desperate attempt to hurt the baddies enough that they'd take their eyes off the ball. It was also weird the sort of flippant way they had Dominic Monaghan basically suggest suicide bombing the Empire

Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006

It means that there were 1 million planets occupied by 1 million dong-cannon star destroyers and 999,999 would-be Lauras Dern yeeting themselves into oblivion

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend

Space Fish posted:

-The Holdo Manever's effectiveness is too rare to risk as a regular military tactic - nevermind, it works above Endor.

I remember the shot of the exploding Star Destroyer above Endor, but where did you get that it was a Holdo Maneuver?

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003

La morte non ha sesso
And then, in Episode IX, they can go to hyperspace at a moment's notice and wind up in a planet's atmosphere. Which raises the question of why armies don't suicide-bomb entire civilizations with a few starfighters traveling at multiples of C.

No Mods No Masters
Oct 3, 2004

General Dog posted:

I remember the shot of the exploding Star Destroyer above Endor, but where did you get that it was a Holdo Maneuver?

I wouldn't have gotten that impression if other people hadn't pointed it out because it's a .5 second shot in the background, but IIRC it looked like one insofar as ie the star destroyer had been broken apart with white energy around the fissures holdoishly.

No Mods No Masters
Oct 3, 2004

It's cool that JJ wanted them to light speed hop into even more planets. Just gently caress my galaxy up fam

Jerkface
May 21, 2001

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

Fallen Rib

General Dog posted:

I remember the shot of the exploding Star Destroyer above Endor, but where did you get that it was a Holdo Maneuver?

Its cut in half with the same white energy effect from TLJ depiction

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend
Why did the Empire (apparently) replace the Republic fleet with an entirely new fleet sometime between 0 and 18 years after the end of the Clone Wars? Wasn't the Republic fleet basically brand new when the Clone Wars began? An irl naval battleship will stay in service for 50 years sometimes, and the Star Wars universe seems a lot more technologically stagnant than ours.

Jerkface
May 21, 2001

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

Fallen Rib

General Dog posted:

Why did the Empire (apparently) replace the Republic fleet with an entirely new fleet sometime between 0 and 18 years after the end of the Clone Wars? Wasn't the Republic fleet basically brand new? An irl naval battleship will stay in service for 50 years sometimes, and the Star Wars universe seems a lot more technologically stagnant than ours.

Because GL and company dont care about a realistic timeline and instead wanted to communicate something about the factions in the prequels through aesthetic design of the opposing sides.

This is why the prequels contain precursor ships to the OT where the good guy faction is using a mix of imperial and rebel designs, the clone ships have mini death star turrets, and the Jedi are flying in tie fighters.

The ST just gives everyone slightly new versions of the OT stuff with no thought on the aesthetic meaning behind it.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe
I know it's nerdy as hell but that hyperspace skipping thing was extremely galling and felt to me like a slap in the face of basically the entirety of Star Wars up to that point.

Hobo Clown
Oct 16, 2012

Here it is, Baby.
Your killer track.




Space Fish posted:

Apologies if this has come up before, but how many takebacks are there in TROS? Specifically, within the confines of TROS itself, and not taking back from Last Jedi or elsewhere. Not even in a "subversive" way, but just stepping back what could have been an interesting or at least influential consequence for the sake of maintaining TROS's theme-park meaninglessness. For instance:

-Chewie dies on a transport - nevermind, different transport! Even if other characters watched him get on that transport and we never saw another one.
-C-3PO has his memory erased - nevermind, R2 kept a backup! And nobody else thought to make one?
-Leia uses her remaining life energy to help Rey fight Kylo - nevermind, she doesn't fade into Jedi Valhalla until much later so that Maz can smile down at her.
-There's only one Wayfinder and Kylo destroys it to force Rey closer - nevermind, there was a second one.
-The Holdo Manever's effectiveness is too rare to risk as a regular military tactic - nevermind, it works above Endor.
-Nü Sheev will use the Final Order fleet to take out the remaining three planets that could stand against him... but he doesn't want any of them to leave the driveway without GPS activated, even though they could just agree to meet up at Tattooine or whatever afterward. (less of a takeback, but still feels contradictory)

Separately, I can't help but laugh at how smugly TROS whines about TLJ. "Guess I'll just exile myself to an island and never help anyone again because good intentions are bullshit, that was Luke's parting lesson and nothing else, gently caress you Rian, heroes should beat up bad guys and smile more."
Chris Terrio, off to the side: "Oh, I listened the first time."

- Zorri Bliss cares for Poe so much she gives him her one ticket off planet, and then that planet is destroyed, but then she is okay anyway, but no she is not interested in Poe anymore

No Mods No Masters
Oct 3, 2004

Ah to be a fly on the wall when pablo was told he was going to have to justify light speed hopping to the faithful. I guess there's a decent chance he's just checked out at this point and who can blame him

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

Basebf555 posted:

I know it's nerdy as hell but that hyperspace skipping thing was extremely galling and felt to me like a slap in the face of basically the entirety of Star Wars up to that point.

It felt like the fast forwarding scene in Spaceballs.

There were a lot of moments in this trilogy that were ripped off from Spaceballs.

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend

Basebf555 posted:

I know it's nerdy as hell but that hyperspace skipping thing was extremely galling and felt to me like a slap in the face of basically the entirety of Star Wars up to that point.

I was going to say they could've been past coordinates that were already stored, but they wouldn't have had previously entered coordinates that landed them in-atmosphere.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003

La morte non ha sesso
Indeed. If I could instantly teleport my car to a specific spot in Philly so I don't have to drive all the way there, I wouldn't warp into traffic.

Basebf555 posted:

I know it's nerdy as hell but that hyperspace skipping thing was extremely galling and felt to me like a slap in the face of basically the entirety of Star Wars up to that point.
Well yeah, every spaceship fight in the series hinged on a logic that this movie throws out immediately.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Jerkface posted:

Because GL and company dont care about a realistic timeline and instead wanted to communicate something about the factions in the prequels through aesthetic design of the opposing sides.

This is why the prequels contain precursor ships to the OT where the good guy faction is using a mix of imperial and rebel designs, the clone ships have mini death star turrets, and the Jedi are flying in tie fighters.

The ST just gives everyone slightly new versions of the OT stuff with no thought on the aesthetic meaning behind it.

It was cool when I realised the only iconography that was retained from PT to OT was the Republic stuff. Like, when Palpatine took over the Republic he didn't reintegrate the separatists, he just discarded them

Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006

If only Herzog were around to call everyone cowards for flipping the colors on the old school TIEs and calling it a day

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Basebf555 posted:

I know it's nerdy as hell but that hyperspace skipping thing was extremely galling and felt to me like a slap in the face of basically the entirety of Star Wars up to that point.

I don't know or care about it being a slap in the face of a bunch of space fantasy movies, but it's definitely a slap in the face of the viewer

Like, why? It's just such a dumb, pointless bit. It's not visually impressive. The action has zero tension. It's basically dead air.

Cheesus
Oct 17, 2002

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.
Yam Slacker

General Dog posted:

Why did the Empire (apparently) replace the Republic fleet with an entirely new fleet sometime between 0 and 18 years after the end of the Clone Wars? Wasn't the Republic fleet basically brand new when the Clone Wars began? An irl naval battleship will stay in service for 50 years sometimes, and the Star Wars universe seems a lot more technologically stagnant than ours.
We don't know how many were created and how many were destroyed by the end of the Clone Wars?

Also, maybe a lot of the old ships are around but we didn't see it. In the OT, the naval ships we saw were nominally managed by either Vader (ANH, ESB) or the Emperor (ROTJ). Like the top dogs are going to settle for the old stuff.

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012



Basebf555 posted:

I know it's nerdy as hell but that hyperspace skipping thing was extremely galling and felt to me like a slap in the face of basically the entirety of Star Wars up to that point.

What, don't you like Star Tours?

Jerkface
May 21, 2001

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

Fallen Rib

pospysyl posted:

What, don't you like Star Tours?

star tours isn't light speed skipping, r2 is doing it on purpose because he's mischievous

OctoberCountry
Oct 9, 2012

No Mods No Masters posted:

Ah to be a fly on the wall when pablo was told he was going to have to justify light speed hopping to the faithful. I guess there's a decent chance he's just checked out at this point and who can blame him

Boxman
Sep 27, 2004

Big fan of :frog:


ruddiger posted:

It felt like the fast forwarding scene in Spaceballs.

There were a lot of moments in this trilogy that were ripped off from Spaceballs.

My god how much better would this movie have been if instead of lightspeed skipping they went to ludicrous speed.

Beelzebufo
Mar 5, 2015

Frog puns are toadally awesome


Did they ever explain why one of the dong destroyers managed to leave Exegol to blow up Kijimi, but none of the others did?

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012



The Little Death posted:

Did they ever explain why one of the dong destroyers managed to leave Exegol to blow up Kijimi, but none of the others did?

Palpatine sent out the single SDSD to lure Rey to his lair so that he could possess her.

VoidTek
Jul 30, 2002

HAPPYELF WAS RIGHT
Admittedly, I only saw the movie the one time, so I might be completely misremembering, but wasn't it shown at the very end that several of them already had made it to other locations? Like there were cuts to the SSDs exploding over other planets just to really hammer in the "No really this time it's ALL OVER when the emperor dies"? So were those other ships just kind of..hanging out there and not destroying their assigned planet? Because with the entire Lando fleet at Exegol there wouldn't really have been anything stopping them. Trying to remember any details hurts.

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pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012



Judgement posted:

Admittedly, I only saw the movie the one time, so I might be completely misremembering, but wasn't it shown at the very end that several of them already had made it to other locations? Like there were cuts to the SSDs exploding over other planets just to really hammer in the "No really this time it's ALL OVER when the emperor dies"? So were those other ships just kind of..hanging out there and not destroying their assigned planet? Because with the entire Lando fleet at Exegol there wouldn't really have been anything stopping them. Trying to remember any details hurts.

I figured those were regular star destroyers just patrolling because "the First Order reigns." No idea why they blew up at the end, though.

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