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I think one of the reasons Blazing Saddles did what it did was because it was a quotable comedy. Watchman is a sprawling tragedy that could be easily misunderstood and doesn’t have the same broad appeal.
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Jan 4, 2020 12:13
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A better superhero comparison might be the Adam West Batman series
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Jan 4, 2020 12:30
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Calico Heart posted:I think one of the reasons Blazing Saddles did what it did was because it was a quotable comedy. Watchman is a sprawling tragedy that could be easily misunderstood and doesn’t have the same broad appeal. So like your video said, a big part of what made Blazing Saddles so much of a wrecking ball was that an irreverent comedy that brought back something resembling the real prejudices and ugliness of the west completely undid the narrative tropes of the Western, which were based entirely on sanitizing history. But that sort of sameyness of tone and narrative structure isn't what superhero films/television have in common. While there's certain commonalities in bits and pieces of script, there's definitely a Marvel House Style for witty banter that a film like Deadpool could play with, the films falling into such a broad range of genre and overall tone makes them a lot hardier against a single silver bullet at a story level. The bigger factor in the modern Every Movie Is The Same is how action scenes are constructed, due to the nature of previs and all the story contortions needed to match it. But basically every blockbuster is made that way, and I don't see how you could really highlight how it works and why it's bullshit without a severe tone clash: the way to wreck it as an industry thing is to show people how good a movie that gets to plan out and integrate action into story is, but if you do that it's completely seamless unless you specifically call attention to it by breaking the fourth wall in precisely the right way. It seems fairly insurmountable even with something like Deadpool (and also Deadpool would be three movies deep which kinda takes that off the table I think.)
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Jan 4, 2020 12:32
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Since we're posting lefty stuff here too, here's Vaush talking about how maybe leftist spaces need to cut out the WE HATE WHITE PEOPLE jokes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxPMNFiWF3Y
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Jan 4, 2020 13:19
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Archer666 posted:Since we're posting lefty stuff here too, here's Vaush talking about how maybe leftist spaces need to cut out the WE HATE WHITE PEOPLE jokes. 
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Jan 4, 2020 13:47
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Uh oh
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Jan 4, 2020 13:47
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Unlucky7 posted:Basically he is one of those "Hey, that thing you like? It's actually bad I'm still amazed that someone as tediously stupid as BotL could post for so long without being multi-perma'd. After the second headache I got trying to understand his level of dumb, I just put him on ignore and forgot about him. But when I saw his name show up on the Leper's Colony, that was first time he actually made me chuckle. And then I learned he had "followers", which I imagine must be some Reptiloids trolling us Humans, as no real Earthling could be that aggressively lame and boring
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Jan 4, 2020 13:58
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" posters that goes around making GBS threads up threads. One of those people who would use big words to make himself sound smart while simultaneously being incredibly stupid and missing the themes of a work.
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Less this, more "What kind of optics does it create when we make ironic jokes about an entire race?".
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Jan 4, 2020 14:08
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Specifically it's more like it's bad optics to make those kind of jokes on public platforms because it makes fence sitters (many of whom are dumb but not really bad people or anything) think that leftists actually hate white people which might push them to the right, instead of pulling them to the left. He mentions how there's nothing wrong with making such jokes in private between friends or whatever beyond just him thinking they're lame when said by other white people. Which is like, I can't really disagree with that Saagonsa fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 14:13
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Archer666 posted:Since we're posting lefty stuff here too, here's Vaush talking about how maybe leftist spaces need to cut out the WE HATE WHITE PEOPLE jokes. I’m not about to watch an hour of what looks like unedited livestream footage, but I absolutely agree with the premise. There’s an attitude that seems to crop up sometimes in leftist circles (and online culture in general) that members of privileged groups have no right to complain about anything because if they’re in a privileged group, that must mean they having nothing bad happening in their lives, and that problems facing individuals in that group don’t matter compared to “real” problems suffered by others. So if such a person is offended by a joke designed to belittle them, then their opinion doesn’t matter. I hate this attitude because of how ignorant and dismissive it is, and it’s part of the reason I don’t get involved in those kinds of circles. The truth is, there is no objective standard for pain, because it comes from the feelings of each individual and there’s no way to read someone else’s mind. Nor is it a zero sum situation. Acknowledging that anti-white jokes are rude and inappropriate does nothing to diminish the suffering caused by jokes that belittle other races. It’s perfectly okay to hate both, and I certainly do.
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Jan 4, 2020 14:14
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Vaush is bad.
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Jan 4, 2020 14:20
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Clerical Terrors posted:Vaush is bad. ok
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Jan 4, 2020 14:25
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~Ironically~ or not, hating on people for immutable parts of them is always lovely and off-putting and has driven me away from a bunch of leftish online groups. Between that kind of stuff and hahalolsuicideimsuicidal a whole lot of leftist spaces have been Not For Me, because I'm already (clinically diagnosed) depressed and suicidally ideative enough as it is and I'm already part of one of the most persecuted groups on the planet today, those kinds of jokes don't exactly do it for me.
Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 14:37
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A really funny part of that video was when Vaush realized a significant part of his chat cannot tell the difference between: - sarcastic uses of the word "femoid" when men are slightly inconvenienced, to make fun of the men - and tweets whose entire content is "white genocide now"
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Jan 4, 2020 15:08
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Mithaldu posted:A really funny part of that video was when Vaush realized a significant part of his chat cannot tell the difference between: Notable mention to the people who can't seem to understand why it's fine to poo poo on someone for a political affiliation, something you and only you personally select and choose to continue supporting, but not their race/ethnicity.
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Jan 4, 2020 15:16
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Bakeneko posted:I’m not about to watch an hour of what looks like unedited livestream footage, but I absolutely agree with the premise. the deisng of places like twitter rewards you for saying stuff thats blandly agreeable to one group of people and confusing and offensive to another so a huge part of the internet is now just 19 year olds repeating 'white people can't experience racism' and 'liberals are basically fascists if you think about it' to eachother and the odd confused normie all day. half my feed at any one time is extremely boring quote tweet dunks Farm Frenzy fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 15:58
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shut the gently caress up liberal
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Jan 4, 2020 16:01
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsSUyaGeIYU new deep dive on the dark universe masterpiece, the mummy
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Jan 4, 2020 16:12
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Farm Frenzy posted:a huge part of the internet is now just 19 year olds repeating 'white people can't experience racism' The larger problem being that the premise is true but most people saying it don't understand why it's true and why it's pointless to say it outside specific circumstances.
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Jan 4, 2020 16:38
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I sometimes shill Nick Creamer in here, and I quite like his recent article on Death Stranding.
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Jan 4, 2020 16:55
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aren't most of the people saying "kill whitey" white themselves? at least that's the impression i always got
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Jan 4, 2020 17:19
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a cartoon duck posted:aren't most of the people saying "kill whitey" white themselves? at least that's the impression i always got They talked about that, saying that it's really "I'm one of the good ones!" performative or just embarrassing feeling much of the time.
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Jan 4, 2020 17:22
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I'm saying kill whitey because I want to die
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Jan 4, 2020 17:28
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I think it's important to look at the context in which they're saying it. Blanket statements can be off-putting but if it doesn't apply to you then don't feel the need to be offended by it but, instead, examine why they said that and think about it some. These things can cause knee-jerk reactions so they're not terribly productive to use but they can have uses occasionally, especially when trying to bring attention to a subject that gets ignored or overlooked by white Leftists. It can also be used as just bullshit gatekeeping. "You can't complain about [subject] because [something worse happening in the world]!" Idiots like Jimmy Dore do this crap all the time.
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Jan 4, 2020 17:53
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Libluini posted:I'm still amazed that someone as tediously stupid as BotL could post for so long without being multi-perma'd. After the second headache I got trying to understand his level of dumb, I just put him on ignore and forgot about him. But when I saw his name show up on the Leper's Colony, that was first time he actually made me chuckle. BotL was merely the worst of a strain of professional internet contrarians infesting Cinema Discusso (not all of them, just a lot) that get ignored because who the gently caress wants to have serious discussions about movies with goons of all people. The fact that the subforum wasn't purged when the front page movie reviews got the axe was a mistake.
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Jan 4, 2020 17:58
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VanSandman posted:BotL was merely the worst of a strain of professional internet contrarians infesting Cinema Discusso (not all of them, just a lot) that get ignored because who the gently caress wants to have serious discussions about movies with goons of all people. The fact that the subforum wasn't purged when the front page movie reviews got the axe was a mistake. Man, gently caress off.
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Jan 4, 2020 18:07
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I call bullshit on "fence-sitters" turning bad because they heard a "white people suck" joke, it's that "i can't believe you're making me do this" turning-into-a-nazi comic. I think sometimes it's used in lieu of actually discussing a point (when people have a point), because Twitter rewards vapid takedowns and you get to feel like a winner by replying with one of those, and it's kinda losing its luster as a subversive statement, but that's for PoC to deal with, not me. I'll say that once I joked about how Americans suck and hosed all of Latin America in this very forum and I had someone get VERY hot about it, going so far as to say something along the lines of "I'm LGBTQ and my life would be better if I was born in Brazil", which is so wrong I think I just gave up on replying after that. So the "not all X" thing is fun until you identify with the X.
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Jan 4, 2020 18:11
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An urbex channel I subscribe to recently posed this video of a "ghost city" in China. The sheer scale of the ruins is absolutely mindblowing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE-Oa7mAyDU
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Jan 4, 2020 18:15
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I suspect the danger is less in sincerely offending people who might otherwise have been interested, than it is in the broader pattern of losing them by presenting the left as an insular memefest where if you don't process all the jokes with the right degree of irony you're out of touch and don't belong.
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Jan 4, 2020 18:16
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YaketySass posted:I suspect the danger is less in sincerely offending people who might otherwise have been interested, than it is in the broader pattern of losing them by presenting the left as an insular memefest where if you don't process all the jokes with the right degree of irony you're out of touch and don't belong. Then Vaush is really not the right person to make that argument. He just reminds of the male college-leftist stereotype I've seen and dealt with a buncha times. How dare you attack me (not) personally, I'm a comrade, I'm enlightened! You're holding communism back with your whining! Just let us solve the world!
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Jan 4, 2020 18:26
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also a lot of the 'men are so ugly and bad' stuff sure doesnt feel great to closeted transwomen edit: also transmen edit edit: also dmab nb people Endorph fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 18:26
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Tbh a lot of men are trash stuff reminds me too much of TERF rhetoric for me to be comfortable
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Jan 4, 2020 18:34
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Archer666 posted:Since we're posting lefty stuff here too, here's Vaush talking about how maybe leftist spaces need to cut out the WE HATE WHITE PEOPLE jokes. drat you can practically smell the white fragility oozing out of this thumbnail. if there's a point to be made this guy shouldn't be the one making it lol
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Jan 4, 2020 18:36
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Endorph posted:also a lot of the 'men are so ugly and bad' stuff sure doesnt feel great to closeted transwomen If you're a man attracted to dudes it can also be disheartening, because you're already told plenty of times in your life that men are disgusting and it's gross to like them. I'm only really bothered by it when it shows up in LGBT spaces, though, and even then most of the time it's LGBT women just making jokes so I dunno.
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Jan 4, 2020 18:38
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Casey Finnigan posted:If you're a man attracted to dudes it can also be disheartening, because you're already told plenty of times in your life that men are disgusting and it's gross to like them. I'm only really bothered by it when it shows up in LGBT spaces, though, and even then most of the time it's LGBT women just making jokes so I dunno.
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Jan 4, 2020 18:40
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Dias posted:Then Vaush is really not the right person to make that argument. He just reminds of the male college-leftist stereotype I've seen and dealt with a buncha times. How dare you attack me (not) personally, I'm a comrade, I'm enlightened! You're holding communism back with your whining! Just let us solve the world! He makes a point early in the video about how a lot of right leaning/conservative learning people think the left is anti-white so clearly this isn't the kind of rhetoric you want to be doing cause you're just ruining any chance to convert them by re enforcing this stereotype that will turn them away. Which is funny cause dude is like... every conservatives nightmare of a smug liberal college boy saying he's smarter than anyone else and knows how things ought to be done.
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Jan 4, 2020 18:42
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does that make his point wrong though
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Jan 4, 2020 18:46
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Junpei Hyde posted:Tbh a lot of men are trash stuff reminds me too much of TERF rhetoric for me to be comfortable I think there's a line between making it your brand like TERFs do and dropping something like "men, right?" every now and then. gently caress, if you're gonna be a card-carrying dirtbag leftist, you gotta at leaast be coherent. At the end of the day I think that leftism is supposed to be about kindness and solidarity so I'm not thrilled by those jokes either but I'm also a white upper-middle class cis straight man whose closest bouts with oppression were being a foreign exchange student in the Midwest and scrolling Tinder and hitting a profile that says "I only date tall guys". If your brand is "stop the whininess", you gotta be willing to take one in the chin every now and then.
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Jan 4, 2020 18:46
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People get extremely giddy when they find out theres an 'acceptable' group to hate without them getting tut tutted by their community: see how the rush to make fun of incels now means harassing and doxxing 15 year olds for being upset they dont have a date for prom or whatever.
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Jan 4, 2020 18:50
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Ibram Gaunt posted:People get extremely giddy when they find out theres an 'acceptable' group to hate without them getting tut tutted by their community: see how the rush to make fun of incels now means harassing and doxxing 15 year olds for being upset they dont have a date for prom or whatever. Cancel culture isn't a thing, but outrage culture sure is, in my opinion. I think that's why Twitter became a hellsite for so many people, you're there to actively look for and engage in conflict, find someone to hate and someone that hates you. It's self-harm. Contra herself talked about it with 4chan but apparently she still doesn't get it. Innuendo Studios also did a good video on some of those themes with "How to Radicalize a Normie".
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Jan 4, 2020 19:00
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