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Shodai? This poll is closed. |
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21 | 75.00% |
| Nah |
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7 | 25.00% |
| Total: | 28 votes | ||
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i watched a video on a hakuho scandal where he.. [pause for dramatic effect] lead a crowd of people in a rhythmic clap. the video was outstanding because it did a really good job of pointing out why exactly the clap was considered a faux pas - and it was - but also why the old men should chill the gently caress out a bit. i learned a lot about a really small part of japanese culture that i had no idea about, a little bit about hakuho, and a little bit about sumo. good poo poo. edit: the video, in case anyone else wants to watch a 14 minute video about the bad hand clapping https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEjUT8KGwCI Marching Powder fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 00:02
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 22:45 |
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https://twitter.com/SumoFollower/status/1214267609358721024 https://twitter.com/SumoFollower/status/1214317271914598402 https://twitter.com/SumoFollower/status/1214320493995679746 I guess Hakuho officially announced he's calling time after this year?
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Jan 7, 2020 00:12
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Goddamn. We've all been expecting it though. This is a huge shake up.
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Jan 7, 2020 00:20
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PYF Hakuho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoiEcW3Rp1k
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Jan 7, 2020 00:47
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ilmucche posted:Does sumo not have a big stretching element? It seems like training being so traditional would mean flexibility would big. That massive low ranking fella in the OP seems like he can barely lift his legs. Orora, the fat dude in the OP is a bad example of a legit sumo dude and was basically a freakshow. He was literally the fattest dude ever in sumo and was 650 lbs by the time he retired. He could barely get up the steps to the ring. One thing in lower level sumo is that it's basically open to everyone. Until you get to the second highest division, you don't get paid. It's just room and board and you have to do all the chores around the stable so stables will let just about everyone hang around even if they have no potential. One example would be Hattorizakura, widely regarded as the worst wrestler ever with a career record of 3-172 but they keep him around because he loves the sport. https://twitter.com/sergseb/status/1204656970021703680
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Jan 7, 2020 00:50
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pseudodragon posted:Orora, the fat dude in the OP is a bad example of a legit sumo dude and was basically a freakshow. He was literally the fattest dude ever in sumo and was 650 lbs by the time he retired. He could barely get up the steps to the ring. ... When he wins does everyone lose their mind like lonzo hitting a three or is everyone just powerfully embarrassed for the person who just had a heart attack and died in the dohyo?
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Jan 7, 2020 01:27
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Marching Powder posted:... When he wins does everyone lose their mind like lonzo hitting a three or is everyone just powerfully embarrassed for the person who just had a heart attack and died in the dohyo? It does make news on the internet when he somehow wins.
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Jan 7, 2020 01:35
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pseudodragon posted:Orora, the fat dude in the OP is a bad example of a legit sumo dude and was basically a freakshow. He was literally the fattest dude ever in sumo and was 650 lbs by the time he retired. He could barely get up the steps to the ring. Hattorizakura's beya, Shikihide, basically takes anyone who has a passion for sumo, however crap. It's their thing. They're pretty popular amongst sumo purists apparently. Orora, I think, stayed in sumo for health cover because he has some condition or other related to his size. He's Russian, so probably he figured it was a good compromise.
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Jan 7, 2020 01:57
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I love everything about this given that I get to watch the equivalent of middle & high school aged Korean kids try to do BJJ at my gym be equally as uncoordinated.
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Jan 7, 2020 02:04
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Oh, Hakuho’s retiring soon~. I’m sad
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Jan 7, 2020 02:06
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Martytoof posted:PYF Hakuho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbtt5UcJsB4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gctq_pdHj1U sivad fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 02:28
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I guess not entirely surprising. Miyagino-oyakata hits mandatory retirement age in the next 2 years and the heya has doubled in size in the past few years (interestingly, mostly small dudes), so looks like maybe they're gearing up for a hand off to Hakuho-beya (or maybe he'll take the Miyagino kabu, which I'm kinda leaning towards).
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Jan 7, 2020 02:40
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One would think Hattorizakura would have improved a little over 175 fights. I guess technique doesn't matter much when you are completely physically overwhelmed in every single fight unless you are some kind of wunderkind
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Jan 7, 2020 02:49
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The guy has fallen BACKWARDS when standing up from a lineman stance multiple times. I think being physically overwhelmed is only one of the problems he faces, the more important one being that he is so incredibly uncoordinated that he can't stand up without falling over.
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Jan 7, 2020 03:02
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Elissimpark posted:I guess not entirely surprising. Yeah, Hakuho is pretty shrewd, and getting the Miyagino-kabu is an investment, while if he stays on as Hakuho-oyakata he's got nothing to pass on or sell once he himself reaches mandatory retirement.
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Jan 7, 2020 03:14
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Kenning posted:Yeah, Hakuho is pretty shrewd, and getting the Miyagino-kabu is an investment, while if he stays on as Hakuho-oyakata he's got nothing to pass on or sell once he himself reaches mandatory retirement. He’s also pretty big on records and legacy so I can see getting the special stock and keeping the Hakuho name being a big deal for him. Also I don’t think you’re allowed to sell your name anymore.
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Jan 7, 2020 03:21
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Disappointed we went two pages in a new thread before posting awkward rikishi hakkeyoi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgOrTbCSV4Y some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 03:33
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pseudodragon posted:He’s also pretty big on records and legacy so I can see getting the special stock and keeping the Hakuho name being a big deal for him. Also I don’t think you’re allowed to sell your name anymore. Huh, you're right. It says that now the JSA determines who gets stock. How the hell does that get determined? There's not very much to go around, relative to how many wrestlers would presumably like to stay on after retirement.
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Jan 7, 2020 03:58
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pseudodragon posted:Also I don’t think you’re allowed to sell your name anymore. What?
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Jan 7, 2020 05:06
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To be an elder in the sumo association you need to own elder stock, or toshiyori-kabu. There are 105 shares of elder stock, and each one comes with a name. It used to actually be like a share of a corporation, in that wrestlers who wanted to join the organization would have to save a lot of money to buy one from someone who was retiring, or from his wife or whatever. Apparently back in 2011 they prohibited the sale of kabu (there had been several scandals where kabu had been put up as collateral or sold improperly or whatever), and now the Japan Sumo Association (JSA or NSK) just determines who gets what stock. I wonder what their criteria are for who gets stock now.
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Jan 7, 2020 05:17
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Marching Powder posted:What? Not their actual name, but the name attached to "stock" or kabu in the NSK. Basically, to stay in the NSK after retirement, a wrestler has to get their mitts on one of the elder names, which allows them to run a heya, work in the NSK and receive ongoing retirement pay. If you can't buy one, you can borrow one from some one who has one, but isn't using it for whatever reason (still wrestling, or maybe using someone elses too). There's probably some byzantine politics that goes along with this - I've read that certain names tend to stay within certain ichimon. For example, former sekiwake Kaiki owns the name Takashima, but is currently using the name Oshima after swapping use of the name Tomokaze with former sekiwake Kyokutenho who had started as Oshima-oyakata after retiring. Dai-Yokozuna, like Takanohana and Chiyonofuji are offered one generation names (their shikona) to use as an elder. Takanohana took them up, but has now left the NSK. Chiyonofuji refused and became Kokonoe-oyakata. Hakuho will be offered this, and he'll probably have the option of taking over the Miyagino when the current holder retires in the next year or two. After the scandals in 2011 about matchfixing, the selling of the kabu was banned by the NSK, but I have a feeling that hasn't really solved the problem. I'm sure that after receiving a kabu from the NSK, you probably might gift the previous owner say, a large amount of cash, to show appreciation. Totally not because you're buying the kabu, nosiree. When you're using a kabu, you'll be officially known by that name. So if you see Kyokutenho as a shimpan on TV, he'll be billed as Tomokaze-oyakata. If you have your original name in the sumo world, you've probably done something wrong. Even the hairdressers have shikona! efb! Kenning posted:I wonder what their criteria are for who gets stock now. Byzantine sumo politics. Did I stutter?!
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Jan 7, 2020 05:37
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Honestly the bits where large men run into each other on a big pile of dirt is secondary to the bits where old men are grumpy in confusing ways.
Kenning fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 06:19
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http://heyaaz.nagioff.com/2019/Kabu_AZ.html Here's the list of Kabu including full body pictures going back about 100 years, browse the various names and see how much smaller these guys used to be. Miyagino-Oyakata could get special approval to stay on until 70, right?
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Jan 7, 2020 06:29
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He could, but I think that involves a major pay cut, and he couldn't be the head coach of his stable. From what I hear Hakuho already handles most of the day to day coaching anyway, so it wouldn't be a major change.
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Jan 7, 2020 07:01
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It's wild, because Miyagno-oyakata's career-high rank was maegashira 13. It's like if Hidenoumi somehow reared the greatest yokozuna of all time. Like, Hakuho definitely understands the physics and principles of sumo much, much better than his oyakata does. That seems like a weird dynamic to have at the stable.
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Jan 7, 2020 07:36
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I wouldn't say that, plenty of great coaches in sports were either mediocre players or didn't play professionally at all.
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Jan 7, 2020 07:49
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Kenning posted:Honestly the bits where large men run into each other on a big pile of dirt is secondary to the bits where old men are grumpy in confusing ways. That's why we have the YDC. To ensure that the confusing grumpiness is undertaken with clear sight of the correct amounts of confusion and grumpiness. Brut posted:http://heyaaz.nagioff.com/2019/Kabu_AZ.html That's super cool. I haven't seen that before!
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Jan 7, 2020 07:53
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For people who are interested in true sumo ephemera, this is a wonderful interview with an Isegahama tokoyama (hairdresser) from 2006.
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Jan 7, 2020 09:36
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ChrisBTY posted:I don't follow Sumo but I do have an odd question. It is a bit of a mix, manga artist and huge sumo fan Mitsuru Yaku critized Hakuho for the way he collects his prize money (and probably for the way he breaths in and out), I love the little arm swing he does. Most common fans seem to like him. I'm not 100% sure about this but The Sumo Association seem to have a bit of a strained relationship with him. But they both need each other so while Hakuho will get away with light punishment for some transgressions he knows not to push it too far. In conclusion peoples reaction to Hakuho is a land of contrasts. This is a great win https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbyd-4hybWk&t=154s I thought this was a great bout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb-tcNgYc18&t=251s
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Jan 7, 2020 09:44
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Kenning posted:Honestly the bits where large men run into each other on a big pile of dirt is secondary to the bits where old men are grumpy in confusing ways. I watched a Chris Sumo video on Tochinosin's heel controversey from 2019 and this seems ti be his take as well. Old grumpy men ruining a sport because they're old and grumpy. (It's also how some BJJ tournaments here in Korea have been ruined but in the way that the old grumpy men actually arent the governing body).
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Jan 7, 2020 09:57
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Kenning posted:For people who are interested in true sumo ephemera, this is a wonderful interview with an Isegahama tokoyama (hairdresser) from 2006. I love this stuff. Often the live broadcast has little vignettes like this, and I wish I could record them because they're often super niche. There was one a couple of years ago where they chatted to the old guy who weaves the white string that the tokoyama use to tie up mage.
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Jan 7, 2020 10:01
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Kenning posted:For people who are interested in true sumo ephemera, this is a wonderful interview with an Isegahama tokoyama (hairdresser) from 2006. That was pretty cool, these little tidbits really help flesh out the sport.
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Jan 7, 2020 10:10
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So one thing with the elder name/stock that wasn’t explicitly mentioned was that you need to have everything lined up by the time you retire. You have to go straight from active wrestler to elder with no time in between so you need to start whatever crazy rear end process the JSA has for awarding the stock while still wrestling and hope you get something before your body breaks down. Or bug your buddy who already has a spot to let you use it until he retires to buy a little time, though in that case you could still get caught out if he suffers a career ending injury or something and nothing else is open that you can slide into. There are cases of guys going through two or three temporary names they borrowed until they can finally get a permanent one of their own. What you can’t do is retire and take a year or two off to recharge/live a normal life and then go into coaching/management like in most other sports. Well, Ozeki get a year grace period and Yokozuna get 5, but everyone else has to do it right away.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:39
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What I also find kinda weird is that even before you become an elder, you're still doing SOMETHING for the organization, it's real bizarre seeing Kisenosato fight as a Yokozuna and then a couple months later seeing him be the security guard in the hallway the wrestlers walk up. I'm looking at the Kabu list and I noticed there's some cases of Gyoji becoming Oyakata, but I can't find a recent example, was this a decently common practice that was changed or is each of those some special exceptional circumstance?
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Jan 7, 2020 17:53
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Wow you'd think Sumo would be more invested in protecting the mystique of their grand champions. Also I kinda wanna wrestle Hattorizakura. It would be an ego boost for one of us anyway. I promise to not tell him that my knees are shot and crouching is agonizing for me.
ChrisBTY fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 17:54
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Mekchu posted:I watched a Chris Sumo video on Tochinosin's heel controversey from 2019 and this seems ti be his take as well. Old grumpy men ruining a sport because they're old and grumpy. (It's also how some BJJ tournaments here in Korea have been ruined but in the way that the old grumpy men actually arent the governing body). I wanna be clear: I sorta enjoy the grumpy old man politics. It gives you something to talk about between basho!
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Jan 7, 2020 18:57
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I don't understand how he falls over backwards.
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Jan 7, 2020 19:31
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don't remember a sumo thread before but i welcome it as friends got me into it a year and a half ago once i found out how to watch it daily in 20 or less minutes. would recommend adding tachiai.org to the op as i've found it incredibly useful in learning more about both the tactics and poltics unique to the sport. my main thought on the banzuke for this month is that terutsuyoshi got robbed. feel bad for abi as well as it's not his fault the ozeki have disintegrated but i'm not gonna blame the nsk for that one. Thauros fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 19:43
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Kenning posted:I wanna be clear: I sorta enjoy the grumpy old man politics. It gives you something to talk about between basho! Grumpy old men politics are half the fun! Especially when you get into Yokozuna/Ozeki promotion politics where you get to debate if 33 wins is really 33 wins or what a championship or championship equivalent means. Brut posted:What I also find kinda weird is that even before you become an elder, you're still doing SOMETHING for the organization, it's real bizarre seeing Kisenosato fight as a Yokozuna and then a couple months later seeing him be the security guard in the hallway the wrestlers walk up. He did that as an elder. He had his status lined up waiting for retirement for years and went right into the job. Like everything else in sumo, you start with the poo poo tier jobs and work your way up and bouncer is entry level elder work until you work your way up to real leadership jobs.
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Jan 7, 2020 19:48
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 22:45 |
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https://twitter.com/SumoFollower/status/1214456629078511616
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Jan 7, 2020 20:00
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