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feedmyleg posted:I read some of those comics. They were very bad. Where’s The Mandalorian? Also glad to see more appreciation for TLJ after TROS. It might be very flawed in places, but it’s a gently caress of a lot better than what we got from JJ  I wouldn’t be upset if they made an Episode 9B directed by Rian, especially post-Knives Out. But I wouldn’t be surprised if Rian wants nothing to do with Star Wars or Disney ever again. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 15:49
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Pollyanna posted:Where’s The Mandalorian?  at getting a Disney+ subscription. But I'm highly skeptical that I'd enjoy it. Sounds like Hercules and Xena (good) but without a main character (bad).Pollyanna posted:I wouldn’t be upset if they made an Episode 9B directed by Rian, especially post-Knives Out. But I wouldn’t be surprised if Rian wants nothing to do with Star Wars or Disney ever again. It's a win-win. We got a good Star Wars movie and now he'll make cool original movies and never touch another franchise again.
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Jan 7, 2020 16:02
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Everyone posted:The biggest problem with TLJ was the Casino part, but most of that came from the ridiculous set-up. Still without it as things were, you have Poe with his "conflict with authority" plot, Rey with Luke and Kylo, then Finn and Rose as... passengers with their thumbs up their asses for most of the movie. My own "two years later quarterback" thoughts for how it should have gone are: movie opens on the base planet, DJ is a prisoner who they caught breaking in somewhere, and they bundle him into the cruiser along with everyone else to evacuate. Leia or someone is negotiating with an arms dealer to sell them weapons, emphasis on his name (Quatloo or w/e) and he hightails it out on his own ship when the First Order shows up. When the FO tracks the rebels through hyperspace- oh no! Bug on the ship! They accuse DJ but he has an alibi, and says he can get them onto the FO lead ship to spoof the signal so when the rebels jump again the bug will show up as being somewhere else entirely. On the FO ship they're sneaking around and have to hide in a requisition room or something, and see a bunch of receipts with Quatloo on them, so you can still have the arms dealers selling to both sides thing. Then it proceeds as in the movie though since I'm throwing poo poo out anyway I'd put the cut "rebellious stormtroopers" plot back in
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Jan 7, 2020 16:06
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Some thoughts: DJ has gotten off scot free with his piles of Nazi gold and is living the high life. Casino Planet is still full of arms dealers, proving him right. The Final Order as well as the First was meaningless since the galaxy had the ability to defeat it in a conventional war with nothing more than a citizens militia Lando drummed up in a few hours. In fact letting it leave Exogol would have been preferable since then Sheevs lightning would be out of range. After three movies we still do not know Kylo Rens motivations, end goals, or why he turned evil (remember "Snoke had already turned his heart"). Obi Wan could have just force healed Qui-Gon.
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Jan 7, 2020 16:18
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Gandalf would have used the power of the one ring to commit great evils in the pursuit of a greater good. Luke watched the Star Wars movies but he should have watched LotR. He passes the same test Galadriel does but doesn't look pretty doing it, so Frodo fights back.
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Jan 7, 2020 16:59
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feedmyleg posted:
I've watched the whole thing with friends who have Disney+, and it's pretty good! It's the closest to "Star Wars Western" as we're gonna get outside of the train robbery in SOLO, and it has a nice sense of adventure. Surprisingly worth the hype, and I was prepared to hate it.
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Jan 7, 2020 16:59
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feedmyleg posted:
ok quote:but without a main character (bad).  feedmyleg posted:It's a win-win. We got a good Star Wars movie and now he'll make cool original movies and never touch another franchise again. Good point. RJ is wasted on franchises.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:02
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feedmyleg posted:
I uhhh what?
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Jan 7, 2020 17:07
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Someone nailed it earlier when they noted that Last Jedi is so vague and obscurantist that it functions as a Rorschach Test. You can see almost anything in it, because it says almost nothing. Like, how many times have you seen Snoke referred to as a Trump figure - as if the so-called “chaos president” is obsessed with order and stability. Luke says Ben will destroy everything he loves, but what does Luke actually love? They don’t specify, so fans can just fill in the blanks with whatever. Luke loves puppies, Luke loves killing.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:09
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jisforjosh posted:I uhhh what? he wears a mask so he's not a character, duh
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Jan 7, 2020 17:10
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Luke loves murdering teenagers
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Jan 7, 2020 17:14
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Like, how many times have you seen Snoke referred to as a Trump figure - as if the so-called “chaos president” is obsessed with order and stability. zero times
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Jan 7, 2020 17:19
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There aren't any fictional bad guys that haven't been compared to Trump by someone at some point, so the point is moot.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:23
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jisforjosh posted:I uhhh what?  from what I've read the titular character sounds like a total blank slate with no personality. Happy to be wrong if that's not the case.romanowski posted:zero times This.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:27
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Unoriginal Name posted:Ben Solo murders billions. Killing him as he slept would have been objectively better. In the Star Wars universe it's established that acting on one's prophetic visions can very well bring them about, as they did with Luke and Ben. Pollyanna posted:Star Wars fans are conservatives. They hate change, can’t deal with minorities, froth at the mouth whenever a god-like figure’s authority, motivations, and character are called into question, and are obsessed with the past while completely failing to recollect it accurately. My fundamental problem is the base assumption that Luke Skywalker has to be any kind of god-like figure in the first place. He emphatically does not wield overwhelming powers. He's not a loving one-man army. But JJ and Rian both failed to understand that, in different ways. JJ came out and admitted he was unable to find a way to include Luke in his first movie because he thought the man had to be an invincible warrior. Rian made him so disconnected from basic humanity that Luke not only obsessed over his students' possible precrime (which is something that I think scans as a reasonable weakness) but also, when this backfired, rejected all his responsibilities—not just to fix his error but even to admit to anyone affected by it that he had any role in the events. How does Luke finally come back and save the day? He acts as the one-man army he never was, making the real-life popular conception of Jedi as demigods into the secret truth known by slave kids across the fictional universe. You can only celebrate Luke's “redemption” in TLJ if you’re prepared to accept some of his rationalizations, and I think you can only do that if you’re relying on your existing view of Luke as a heroic figure rather than objectively evaluating his actions as written in the film. What he actually does is threaten his nephew with death for crimes he had not committed; cause the deaths of all the pupils in his care, telling no one about the circumstances behind this; hide on an island to die, taking with him all knowledge of what happened and leaving his fallen student to take his revenge against the galaxy at large; and then turn around after someone finally discovers some of the truth and yells at him, but only just enough to give his sister a perfunctory “I’m sorry” and then taunt his biggest victim with one of the least sincere apologies ever put to film.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:33
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Zoran posted:Rian made him so disconnected from basic humanity that Luke not only obsessed over his students' possible precrime (which is something that I think scans as a reasonable weakness) but also, when this backfired, rejected all his responsibilities—not just to fix his error but even to admit to anyone affected by it that he had any role in the events. How does Luke finally come back and save the day? He acts as the one-man army he never was, making the real-life popular conception of Jedi as demigods into the secret truth known by slave kids across the fictional universe. This all checks out as "basic humanity" to me. He hosed up, then misunderstood his error and made it worse. It's pretty easy to relate to.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:37
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Ignis posted:Isn't everything in Nature force-sensitive by default or...??? It's not just a theoretical problem, because it leads to moronic fancanon like Grey Jedi, and interpreting "Palpatine clouded the Jedi's vision" to mean that he literally cast a magic spell that blocks their Detect Evil spells. Magic artifacts are the worst inclusion in the canon--the biggest mistake in the Clone Wars series, and possibly dumber than anything in Episode IX. Franchescanado posted:I've watched the whole thing with friends who have Disney+, and it's pretty good! It's the closest to "Star Wars Western" as we're gonna get outside of the train robbery in SOLO, and it has a nice sense of adventure. Surprisingly worth the hype, and I was prepared to hate it. Darth TNT posted:Does anyone know if the Knights who say Ren were force users? Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 17:38
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My wife for some strange reason wants to watch all of the Star Wars movies. We started with Episode I, and last night we just watched Episode IV. Going in order of the Star Wars timeline, so Episode I - III, Solo, Rogue One, IV - VI, and then VII - IX. Its been fun to mock the prequels though, and also point out all of the interesting camera shots, special effects, and story facts that i've learned over the years from these Star Wars threads.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:43
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Pollyanna posted:I wouldn’t be upset if they made an Episode 9B directed by Rian, especially post-Knives Out. But I wouldn’t be surprised if Rian wants nothing to do with Star Wars or Disney ever again. As a standalone story, the ST is abysmal. Ditto on being an ending to the saga since 1977. But, as a pilot for further stories with this cast, I think it does its job. At the end, you have Rey the Superhero who the next writers are ready to deconstruct, all ties to the past destroyed and locked away (both narratively and literally within her sabre), and a jumping point to do anything from here now. At the very least, I think it needs an epilogue. Even if its just one more goofy actiony romp that talks about what's going on in the world now. They won't tho.
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Jan 7, 2020 17:43
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Someone nailed it earlier when they noted that Last Jedi is so vague and obscurantist that it functions as a Rorschach Test. You can see almost anything in it, because it says almost nothing. I don't know that Snoke is obsessed with order and stability either. All I remember him saying about his goals is his desire to stamp out any potential rebellion. Not that he reads as a Trump figure at all, outside of wearing a tasteless gold bathrobe
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Jan 7, 2020 17:52
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I really wish these new films had started after the death of Luke and Leia and Han. Maybe open episode vii with the funeral of Luke Skywalker. Further, Im surprised the hardline anti-George Lucas faction hasnt jumped on this because then you can blame George for selling the franchise too early while Fisher, Ford, and Hamill were still alive.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:00
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Most people who hated George Lucas for the prequels are probably doing a bit of a re-evaluation on their opinion of him at this point.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:02
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Barudak posted:I really wish these new films had started after the death of Luke and Leia and Han. I read a comment to the effect of "if Lucas hadn't sold the franchise for four billion poor ol' Disney would have had the creative freedom to not worry about making back their money" which is just .
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Jan 7, 2020 18:03
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Dishwasher posted:As a standalone story, the ST is abysmal. Ditto on being an ending to the saga since 1977. But, as a pilot for further stories with this cast, I think it does its job. At the end, you have Rey the Superhero who the next writers are ready to deconstruct, all ties to the past destroyed and locked away (both narratively and literally within her sabre), and a jumping point to do anything from here now. The ST is over and most people don’t really want to see it continue. It sucks, but Disney just didn’t pull it off, and there’s less and less appetite for the ST every year. Disney totally hosed over Finn, Poe, and Rose. Rey keeps getting lambasted as a Mary Sue, and Ben, the most compelling character in the trilogy, flopped over dead. They proved they can’t do anything good with these characters. Best to move on. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 18:06
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Rian Johnson's method is to contradict people's general impressions and assumptions, only to go back and reaffirm them more deeply than ever before. Thus the story of Luke begins with him rejecting Rey and throwing away his old lightsaber—a genuinely shocking and intriguing development!—and ends with Jedi in general and Luke Skywalker in particular becoming symbols of magnificent power, capable of resisting the greatest evil. The fascist party sweeps through the whole galaxy on what must be a massive wave of popular support, and Leia's resistance has no friends whatsoever. Not to worry! Fifteen people on the losing end of a catastrophic rout are all that Leia needs to regain power. The film ends with the promise of a future uprising on Leia's behalf. The charming, cocksure fighter jock does charming, cocksure fighter jock things... and it gets him demoted! And he leads a mutiny against the woman in power! But it's fine because Leia wakes up and has a nice conversation with Holdo about how great a leader Poe is. The bumbling, cowardly ex-stormtrooper who overcame his fear in the last movie in order to go rescue his one friend and then joined the broader Resistance... becomes a bumbling coward again, but it's cool because he overcomes his fear to attempt a rescue of his several friends, and in so doing he becomes a true Rebel. There's nothing wrong with this structure, except that Rian discards all the interesting ideas and reifies the bad ones. The notion that the Resistance is part of a perpetual cycle of violence and is battling the wrong enemy is discarded, and we end up with nothing but the good Rebels set against the evil Empire. The Jedi become the superheroes they never were except in the popular consciousness. The whole film really is Rian Johnson's liberal fantasy. The act of gesturing at subversive ideas becomes subversion itself. TLJ is a film that narrows the galactic conflict to pure good versus irredeemable evil on purpose, but it buys goodwill for itself by pretending to embrace new ideas until its final act.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:07
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Zoran posted:The fascist party sweeps through the whole galaxy on what must be a massive wave of popular support wait what. I don't remember that part
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Jan 7, 2020 18:11
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Zoran posted:Rian Johnson's method is to contradict people's general impressions and assumptions, only to go back and reaffirm them more deeply than ever before. Thus the story of Luke begins with him rejecting Rey and throwing away his old lightsaber—a genuinely shocking and intriguing development!—and ends with Jedi in general and Luke Skywalker in particular becoming symbols of magnificent power, capable of resisting the greatest evil. Yeah, this is the main reason I’m ultimately disappointed with TLJ, despite it being the best of the ST. It sets up a bunch of cool and interesting stuff and then throws it away in favor of the status quo.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:12
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There are infinitely many different story treatments that could have happened but Im now kind of enamored with having alternate universe episode vii kick off with Luke's funeral to both echo the end of III and VI for returning fans as well as provide a sequence to establish the status of the universe for new one. YaketySass posted:I read a comment to the effect of "if Lucas hadn't sold the franchise for four billion poor ol' Disney would have had the creative freedom to not worry about making back their money" which is just drat, and I thought I had a hot take.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:14
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romanowski posted:wait what. I don't remember that part The First Order Reigns!
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Jan 7, 2020 18:16
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romanowski posted:wait what. I don't remember that part It’s a stupid, impossible idea, and yet the opening crawl insists on it.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:19
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feedmyleg posted:Most people who hated George Lucas for the prequels are probably doing a bit of a re-evaluation on their opinion of him at this point. Not really.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:20
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Barudak posted:Further, Im surprised the hardline anti-George Lucas faction hasnt jumped on this because then you can blame George for selling the franchise too early while Fisher, Ford, and Hamill were still alive. Tezzor still has a couple thousand days of probation left
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Jan 7, 2020 18:21
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Pg 420 smoke Star Wars all day.    
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Jan 7, 2020 18:23
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...how did you not post a bong made out of a lightsaber? Even Kevin Smith thought of that one.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:25
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Not from this distance your honor.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:26
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feedmyleg posted:
You're instincts are correct imo, but hold on I'm compelled to pretend to comically misunderstand you, this will totally result in your embarasment not mine sorry WHAT THE - ?? *falls away from computer onto a pile of mandos
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Jan 7, 2020 18:26
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Lift rocks, burn trees, every day.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:30
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Jan 7, 2020 18:31
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As the complaints about the prequels expanded a particular kind of liberal commentary developped on the franchise, trying to pin what was wrong with that particular setting. Maybe the Jedi are too puritan and should be allowed to gently caress, maybe they should be less "dogmatic" in some incredibly vague way, maybe there's a Dark and a Light side and the truth is in the middle, etc. Also "something must be done" about slavery on Tatooine, but we're not sure how. The tell with this sort of analysis is that it always falls short of proposing concrete solutions, because the logical conclusion is that the Republic itself is the real obstacle to justice in the galaxy, and the Jedi themselves merely bit players in its hegemony. But since the Senate is a stand-in for liberal democracy itself, radicalism is rejected in favor of restricting the focus to the personal drama of Jedi vs Sith and deciding that these two factions are actually the god-like puppetmasters of the galaxy's history, and that Force users must be made more diverse (Rey the all-powerful Nobody as a "democratization" of the Force against the Skywalker bloodline) and should agree to peaceful cooperation as a way to transcend the conflict. "Normal" people are helpless, so really, it's up to an enlightened governance of new Force Users ("Skywalkers" as a new Jedi name, maybe?) to graciously rule over them in a way that avoids war but offers no liberation either. It's not a surprise that this particular part of the fandom embraced Johnson as their guy and decided that not liking the movie was akin to being a chud.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:33
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