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Slowpoke Rodriguez posted:Lewis Therin was too mean to me, now I have to join the People spiting their own survival just because they think they're owed something is the most realistic part of the whole series.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:29
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Did Ishamael originally join up because he wanted to end existence or was that something that he came up with as a forsaken? It's still pretty nutty but at least you could sort of see it from a philosophical point of view.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:31
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bloom posted:Did Ishamael originally join up because he wanted to end existence or was that something that he came up with as a forsaken? Yeah, he was a philosopher and his overarching ideas were super nihilistic. He joined the Shadow because he did the whole 'If the fight between the Dragon and the Dark One happens infinitely in cycles and the Dark One only has to win one time to destroy existence then statistically he's already won and we're just raging against the inevitable'
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Jan 7, 2020 18:37
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Elan Morin Tedronai was a philosopher before the drilling of the bore and after the existence of the Dark One was known he was one of the first Aes Sedai to publicly declare his allegiance to the shadow. He fully accepted the idea of cyclical time and the Dark One ultimately winning even if it took a million turns of the wheel. This was before the War of Power.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:38
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He's like some stupid Jordan Peterson alt-right youtuber but immortal and with magic.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:42
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How are u posted:He's like some stupid Jordan Peterson alt-right youtuber but immortal and with magic. The Dark One reached through the hole in his prison and told Elan Morin: "All you can eat lobster on Tuesdays, forever" VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 18:56
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The ultimate nihilist, the betrayer of hope. e:. The Cleaner of Rooms.
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Jan 7, 2020 19:07
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I always sort of read it as the Creator made the world, made the Dark One to stir up poo poo and reset the world by the point it started to get stale, made the Dragon (who is guaranteed by the nature of reality to stop the Dark One from ultimately winning), and then hosed off to go do something else.
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Jan 7, 2020 19:14
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:The Cleaner of Rooms. "They gave me the name to revile me, but I will yet make them kneel and worship it."
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Jan 7, 2020 19:17
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:The Dark One reached through the hole in his prison and told Elan Morin: "All you can eat lobster on Tuesdays, forever" "Are you a lobster?"
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Jan 7, 2020 19:42
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i read it as he's the dark dragon. Lots of "hey Mr. Dark one I know me and your philosophy king have done this a lot but I'm gonna skip him this time around" maybe incel dragon since he always looses to the chad lewis
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Jan 7, 2020 20:17
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Do the books ever go into why he’s named the Dragon Reborn when nobody seems to know what a dragon is?
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Jan 7, 2020 20:32
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Hi I'd like to get some full sleeve tattoos. Dragons. ... You know, dragons. They're those ... things. You know? They go like *waves hands around vaguely*
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Jan 7, 2020 20:34
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Invalid Validation posted:Do the books ever go into why he’s named the Dragon Reborn when nobody seems to know what a dragon is? Lews Therin Telamon (man I hope I spelled that right) was called "the Dragon" because of his temper. Rand is this Dragon reborn. The people back in the Age of Legends presumably had legends about weird flying snakes they called dragons, if the banner Lews used is any kind of sign.
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Jan 7, 2020 20:37
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^^e:  Invalid Validation posted:Do the books ever go into why he’s named the Dragon Reborn when nobody seems to know what a dragon is? They don't know what a dragon is, but people in the Age of Legends clearly did (he had a big dragon as his personal banner after all), and they gave LTT the title Dragon. Knowledge of dragons was lost, but not that LTT was the Dragon (and the Kinslayer). And through foretelling the people knew that he would be reborn, hence the Dragon Reborn.
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Jan 7, 2020 20:40
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I guess but then Rhuidean just slaps on magic tattoos to all the chiefs and nobody knows what the gently caress. Just kinda funny I guess.
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Jan 7, 2020 20:44
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Invalid Validation posted:I guess but then Rhuidean just slaps on magic tattoos to all the chiefs and nobody knows what the gently caress. Just kinda funny I guess. Nobody knows what the gently caress about the Aiel either.
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Jan 7, 2020 20:49
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Nobody knows what the gently caress about the Aiel either. Yeah nobody talks with the Aiel and they're probably just like "Rhuidean really hosed up these snakes, oh well"
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Jan 7, 2020 20:52
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The prophecies call me the Squirrel Reborn. Ok Rand.
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Jan 7, 2020 20:55
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Pleads posted:Yeah nobody talks with the Aiel and they're probably just like "Rhuidean really hosed up these snakes, oh well" I'm reasonably sure no wetlander has ever seen the Aiel chieftain dragon tattoos.
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Jan 7, 2020 20:55
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Yeah sorry, I meant the Aiel are the ones going "these snakes, man"
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Jan 7, 2020 20:59
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IIRC the Aiel clanchiefs generally keep their one Dragon tattoo covered up by their sleeve.
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Jan 7, 2020 21:00
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The Aiel call themselves The People of the Dragon. I think they know that the tattoos are dragons, unless there's a verse I've forgotten.
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Jan 7, 2020 21:04
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I wonder if the design of the dragon changes with the ages. Would really suck to be in the age after the modern day age and have your personal banner be a big titty anime dragon.
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Jan 7, 2020 21:05
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Invalid Validation posted:The prophecies call me the Squirrel Reborn. Ok Rand. Marked by deez nuts in my mouth
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Jan 7, 2020 21:06
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UltraRed posted:The Aiel call themselves The People of the Dragon. I think they know that the tattoos are dragons, unless there's a verse I've forgotten. There's a scene at the end of The Dragon Reborn, where Moiraine muse about the prophecies foretelling that the Stone of Tear would never fall until the People of the Dragon came, and speculate of whether they (Moiraine, Mat, Egwene & co.) are the People of the Dragon. To which Rhuarc rolls up his sleeve to show his tattoo, and reveals the the Aiel call themselves People of the Dragon. So at least clan chiefs knew that the tattoo they got was depicting a dragon.
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Jan 7, 2020 21:08
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Right, and even so, from the Rhuidean artifact, the Aiel just only know that the tattoos are of the symbol of Lews Therin, The Dragon. They’ve no idea what the significance of the creature depicted other than that.
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Jan 8, 2020 06:37
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I'm up to The Shadow Rising in my reread and gently caress, that Rhuidean vision sequence is still one of the best sequences in any scifi/fantasy ever. Reading it as an adult it was also profoundly sad. But re: "People of the Dragon", I actually don't get that part in terms of history. I don't think it was mentioned in the Rhuidean visions at all, was it? Or were the ancient Aiels all serving Lews Therin specifically, and not Aes Sedai in general? Or was the name part of a later Foretelling?
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Jan 8, 2020 21:40
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JOHN SKELETON posted:I'm up to The Shadow Rising in my reread and gently caress, that Rhuidean vision sequence is still one of the best sequences in any scifi/fantasy ever. Reading it as an adult it was also profoundly sad. It probably comes from this part: quote:He shivered, wondering if men would ever stand in a meeting such as this again. When he saw what was on the table, the shiver became a shudder. A crystal sword - perhaps an object of the Power, perhaps only an ornament; he had no way of telling - held down the Dragon banner of Lews Therin Kinslayer, spread out like a tablecloth and spilling on the floor.. His heart clenched. What was that doing here? Why had it not been destroyed, and memory of the curse man as well? If I understand it correctly, since LTT was the leader of the Aes Sedai, after he sealed the Bore and became the Kinslayer, rumors got spread that the Aiel only ever served him, making them the Children of the Dragon. Edit: The Shadow Rising has so many great moments. I find this one pretty great, too: quote:The dawn shadows shortened and paled as Rand and Mat jogged across the barren, still-dark valley floor, leaving fog-shrouded Ruhidean behing. Is it any wonder he suffers from PTSD? This is all kinds of horrible, hosed up poo poo, and he's like... 16 or something like that? Torrannor fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 21:51
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Torrannor posted:It probably comes from this part: Yeah, its like how the Yang symbol became the 'Fang of the Dragon' and a mark of Lews Therin personally instead of the symbol of all the male Aes Sedai over time.
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Jan 8, 2020 21:57
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Okay that all makes sense. In other news, I gave my partner the first book as a Christmas gift - she doesn't really read scifi or fantasy but expressed mild interest - and she's loving it! Moving on to the second book now. Apparently all the poo poo about Rand channeling and being the Dragon was obvious almost immediately. I wonder if it would be for most adults, since sure as hell wasn't for teenage me. Super interesting to see how someone views the series from a modern perspective, knowing nothing about it. Maybe we've swung back around where earnest high fantasy is fun and refreshing again for the general audience?
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Jan 8, 2020 22:06
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It's pretty obvious that Rand is the Dragon within like the first, 100 pages. Also that Egwene will be hugely important. They're the only two characters who get their family fleshed out in the first three books.
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Jan 8, 2020 22:21
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Torrannor posted:Is it any wonder he suffers from PTSD? This is all kinds of horrible, hosed up poo poo, and he's like... 16 or something like that? 18-19, I think. Maybe 20ish? I think about 20. I remember consistently underestimating the ages of the characters, except for Nynaeve, because I assumed that Egwene started braiding her hair at like 16. And that Nynaeve was unusually young as a 30something Wisdom who looked like she was in her mid-20s, not a 26 year old who looked like she had just started braiding her hair. Y'all've reminded me of one of my favorite scenes that involve visions and callbacks. Winter's Heart, Chapter 10: A Plan Succeeds posted:“There’s one new novice I’d like you to meet, Nynaeve. Sharina Melloy. A grandmother. I think you’ll agree she’s a remarkable woman.” The Great Hunt, Chapter 23: The Testing posted:“Tangled up in what, Nynaeve? What is it you couldn’t bear? No, Nynaeve. You can ride alone here if you wish it, but if the Queen of the Malkieri came to Andor without a proper escort, Morgase would be scandalized, if not offended. You don’t want to offend her, do you? I thought you two were friends.”
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Jan 8, 2020 22:48
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Ungratek posted:It's pretty obvious that Rand is the Dragon within like the first, 100 pages. Also that Egwene will be hugely important. They're the only two characters who get their family fleshed out in the first three books. Several things immediately jump out at me about Rand in early book one and it's that he's the only one who gets his Ishamael nightmares detailed, he's the only one depicted as seeing the Myrdraal within his POV. Winternight's POV was all him. He also gets the most Frodo-ish POVs, if that makes sense. Mat and Perrin might as well as have been Merry and Pippin for a little while, until they start getting more meat around their narrative bones. There were no female hobbits in Tolkien's Fellowship.
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Jan 8, 2020 22:54
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IIRC, 95% of book one is told from Rand's PoV. It's not a huge secret that he's the Dragon Reborn.
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Jan 8, 2020 23:10
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Torrannor posted:IIRC, 95% of book one is told from Rand's PoV. It's not a huge secret that he's the Dragon Reborn. Its not quite that lopsided, but Rand gets a ton of PoV where magical stuff keeps happening, Perrin's PoV starts delving hard into the wolf-brother stuff almost immediately once the group splits and Mat stops getting PoV after Shadar Logath.
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Jan 8, 2020 23:18
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This page has a per-chapter breakdown of PoV characters. Rand, in book 1, clocks in at 74.5763%. Mat doesn't get a single PoV until he wakes up in the White Tower after being healed.
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Jan 8, 2020 23:29
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yeah, having read through the first 3 books again super recently i was surprised at how little focus mat had gotten, especially since i remembered him being fairly important. there's enough lack there to where it'd be easy to disbelieve the idea that he's apparently near the same level as rand or perrin.
Johnny Joestar fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Jan 9, 2020 |
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Jan 9, 2020 00:30
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Vavrek posted:This page has a per-chapter breakdown of PoV characters. Rand, in book 1, clocks in at 74.5763%. Mat doesn't get a single PoV until he wakes up in the White Tower after being healed. Huh, I totally thought he had one or two early ones. I didn't realize Rand and Perrin were so far above everyone else in total PoVs across the series either.
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Jan 9, 2020 00:31
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Zore posted:Huh, I totally thought he had one or two early ones. Guess all those hanging out in the snow doing nothing chapters really made up the numbers for Perrin. Also, there was a second prologue for Eye of the World in later editions? Worth reading?
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Jan 9, 2020 00:46
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