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NowonSA posted:I think going through the system is just something that'll need to be done, otherwise they're getting in on what amounts to a weird loophole. I dunno, even if they've clearly earned it I just don't see them getting that pass to the GP. I mean, the thing is that they already have gone through the system. It's just been an unofficial one.
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Jan 12, 2020 23:44
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Their system feels like it's saying yes everyone born since 1500 is bad and needs help though. Even though it's the points that they originally wanted to change because it was making everyone come out bad. I dunno, it feels a bit like an essay where they have forgotten the original topic.
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Jan 13, 2020 02:14
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I fear a weak or controversial ending has the potential to really sour people on this show tbh. It's invested a lot of good will in the perception that it takes these big ethical ideas seriously and if the conclusion doesn't work for people they're gonna readjust their opinion of the journey to get there.
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Jan 13, 2020 02:20
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If anyone's making gifs of this show, can I request one of Paul Scheer's character smiling and saying "The fair thing to do is to give up more and more stuff we want, unilaterally, until this demon is finally happy!" I feel like it will come in useful in a political context.
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Jan 13, 2020 02:44
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Isn't the idea of the show being that there's always work that needs to be done to be a better person? The Good Place being the idea of Eternal Reward doesn't quite work in the new system. The Cockroaches could get there, but I feel like that's not satisfying. They'd probably want to keep helping other people.
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Jan 13, 2020 02:54
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the finale is probably going to have to have the crew go through the system they set up, them saying their goodbyes, and someone saying 'alright, here we go.' maybe even Michael snapping his fingers as the last shot.
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Jan 13, 2020 03:04
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"You guys, THIS is the Good Place!"
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Jan 13, 2020 03:21
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RBA Starblade posted:"You guys, THIS is the Good Place!"
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Jan 13, 2020 03:25
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SardonicTyrant posted:*camera zooms in on Jason, who laughs happily now that they figured it out* "You guys, this is rehab!"
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Jan 13, 2020 03:45
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turns out the good place was the friends we made along the way
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Jan 13, 2020 04:05
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I feel like they would want the last scene to be an Eleanor/Chidi moment. Maybe there's some plot contrivance that would have them lose their memories, but they're like "We'll find each other again. We always do." Fade to black EXECUTIVE PRODUCER VINCE GILLIGAN
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Jan 13, 2020 05:30
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Agronox posted:turns out the good place was the friends we made along the way I mean, it kind of is. The best thing that's ever happened to the protagonists is the friendship they developed, and it's been central to making their time in the afterlife actually a good experience despite the best attempts of demons to make it hell.
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Jan 13, 2020 05:34
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oh jay posted:the last scene Interesting to me is that there is video of the table read of the last lines of the last script out there, but I've never seen anyone post about it anywhere.
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Jan 13, 2020 05:48
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Neither had I, until now!
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Jan 13, 2020 06:42
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I’m late to the game but I started binging the show’s podcast because I have way too much downtime currently and goddamn is it good. My perception is also colored by the fact that I work in the industry so it’s awesome listening to these people talk shop. My favorite story has been about how everyone was keeping the episode 13 twist secret, even from guest directors, and Kristen Bell even kept it secret from her husband. Yet Ted Danson was literally telling everyone he knew.
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Jan 13, 2020 07:34
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Mordiceius posted:I’m late to the game but I started binging the show’s podcast because I have way too much downtime currently and goddamn is it good. My perception is also colored by the fact that I work in the industry so it’s awesome listening to these people talk shop. It kind of reminds me of Tom Waits in The Imaginarium of Dr Parnassus, who in all the interviews on the DVD was super hyped to be getting to play the devil.
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Jan 13, 2020 07:39
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Taear posted:Their system feels like it's saying yes everyone born since 1500 is bad and needs help though. Presumably the people who live good lives but were damned by globalism would get through the purgatory rehab after one easy round and be on to the Good Place in no time. The real question is how this system will handle young children and adults who, due to mental disabilities, are incapable of making true moral decisions.
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Jan 13, 2020 08:02
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Medullah posted:I really do still love the show, but I also kind of wish it'd only been one season. That twist in season one was just perfect, and everything since has been trying to live up to it. That would have been a horrible way to end the show.
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Jan 13, 2020 09:00
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:The real question is how this system will handle young children and adults who, due to mental disabilities, are incapable of making true moral decisions. Like every other show on TV it will conveniently forget that disabled people exist
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Jan 13, 2020 11:19
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Presumably the people who live good lives but were damned by globalism would get through the purgatory rehab after one easy round and be on to the Good Place in no time. The real question is how this system will handle young children and adults who, due to mental disabilities, are incapable of making true moral decisions. Jason?
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Jan 13, 2020 12:14
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:I'm wondering if they get to the Good Place finally and it turns out to not be worth the hype. the bad place demons definitely seem to take way more pride and care in what they do
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Jan 13, 2020 12:39
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Taear posted:Jason? Jason needed more educational assistance than what he got, but what I'm talking about includes issues like severe schizophrenia, psychopathy (or whatever you choose to call a physical inability to feel empathy), and victims of severe brain injuries. Some human brains physically lack the ability to make moral decisions or to sufficiently comprehend the world around them, and ethical philosophies--both religious and secular--don't seem to address these cases very often.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:29
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Young kids are easy, I don’t think the plan is to let them stay mentally undeveloped for all eternity. Beings with unlimited power can probably come up with a way to have them grow to mental and physical adults in a natural timeframe.
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Jan 13, 2020 16:24
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I feel like the ending is going to involve the idea that there isn't a universal "okay, we're done setting this up forever" solution. They're going to find edge cases or odd exceptions and will constantly have to adjust the system as time moves on. After all, the stagnation of the points system is what caused the current problems in the first place.
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Jan 13, 2020 16:30
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Evil Mastermind posted:I feel like the ending is going to involve the idea that there isn't a universal "okay, we're done setting this up forever" solution. They're going to find edge cases or odd exceptions and will constantly have to adjust the system as time moves on. After all, the stagnation of the points system is what caused the current problems in the first place. And like I said, they're still not actually fixing the points Just making everyone....do it all over in the afterlife.
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Jan 13, 2020 17:38
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Jason needed more educational assistance than what he got, but what I'm talking about includes issues like severe schizophrenia, psychopathy (or whatever you choose to call a physical inability to feel empathy), and victims of severe brain injuries. Some human brains physically lack the ability to make moral decisions or to sufficiently comprehend the world around them, and ethical philosophies--both religious and secular--don't seem to address these cases very often. I think it's better left unhandled in a show like this. Erasure is a serious problem, but it's too easy to say some really damaging things with the intention of being respectful. You have to walk a thin line. You don't want to romanticize their mental illness, nor do you want to patronize them or erase their illness. I was raised Catholic, and at least the Catholicism I was introduced to basically said that moral choices require you to be able to make that choice. So a person who is suffering from a delusion would not be considered culpable for actions they took while in that state.
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Jan 13, 2020 19:07
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Raised as generic American evangelical "non-denominational" denomination of Christianity, we were often promised "perfected" bodies in heaven. They weren't shy about disabilities and things being "preserved" in heaven, explicitly you got a "better" bod than on Earth and they weren't concerned with the harms of erasing people's illnesses and disabilities, it was the point.
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Jan 13, 2020 23:35
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Not to mention they'd have to deal with evolution and how that could change perceptions of morality.
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Jan 14, 2020 00:33
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I really feel like if any show could handle all of these themes and still stick the landing, it's this one. I don't know, the writers have earned my trust.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:06
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Caphi posted:So Mike Schur's big answer is that he's reinvented Hinduism and/or Buddhism? you might try reading anything at all about either of those religions
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Jan 14, 2020 06:13
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Jason needed more educational assistance than what he got, but what I'm talking about includes issues like severe schizophrenia, psychopathy (or whatever you choose to call a physical inability to feel empathy), and victims of severe brain injuries. Some human brains physically lack the ability to make moral decisions or to sufficiently comprehend the world around them, and ethical philosophies--both religious and secular--don't seem to address these cases very often. yeah, no. scholars have treated this conundrum as a first class issue for millennia
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Jan 14, 2020 06:15
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This is why people hate moral philosophers. (I actually really appreciate both of those posts)
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Jan 14, 2020 14:49
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Are there any other type of philosophers that people keep referring specifically to moral one's Being the type people don't like? Do people like those other ones? Are there immoral philosophers?
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Jan 14, 2020 14:53
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While I'm intrigued by the idea of this all being their afterlife test, it doesn't really make sense of you look at some of the conversations between characters away from the humans.
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Jan 14, 2020 15:00
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:While I'm intrigued by the idea of this all being their afterlife test, it doesn't really make sense of you look at some of the conversations between characters away from the humans. I have just started listening to the podcast and this is a very salient point. In the first episode Michael Schur even says he went out of his way in the first season to never show Michael alone because it would not make sense to show him acting good when at the time he was not. He wanted to make sure the twist was preserved without any sort of gotchas like that.
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Jan 14, 2020 15:05
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tsob posted:Are there any other type of philosophers that people keep referring specifically to moral one's Being the type people don't like? Do people like those other ones? Are there immoral philosophers? The recently departed Roger Scruton was apparently a big deal in aesthetic philosophy and the philosophy of sexuality. https://twitter.com/hannahrosewoods/status/1216679355319029761 Yeah.....don't think anybody likes him either
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Jan 14, 2020 15:12
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Oh my god, sex is obscene -- how could you complain about an obscene display as one half of the source of obscenity!!!!
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Jan 14, 2020 17:17
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and in an instant, a thousand fanfics were born https://twitter.com/KristenBell/status/1216834691170324480?s=20 Remember when we first met Doug and he was reading the book The Most Good You Can Do by Peter Singer? Peter Singer is now giving away one of his other books about what we owe each other, The Life You Can Save, for free. In addition to the ebook version with a new forward by Michael Schur, Michael Schur, Kristen Bell, Stephen Fry, and others contributed their voices to the audiobook which you can also download for free.
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Jan 14, 2020 18:37
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Why do people need to be judged at all? Why do there need to be rules, and a ruling body? Why do we have more power alive than we ever will dead, especially while the afterlife seems to have way fewer resource limitations? These demons, judges, etc. can give anything at the snap of a finger, and yet the new solution being spitballed is one of endless tests and iteration - not freedom. What, exactly, is wrong with giving everyone everything they've ever wanted (even the totally bad guys) if doing so doesn't harm anyone else? What if I want to become an even worse person in my own little microverse? Who am I hurting?
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Jan 14, 2020 19:58
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sure okay posted:Why do people need to be judged at all? Why do there need to be rules, and a ruling body? Why do we have more power alive than we ever will dead, especially while the afterlife seems to have way fewer resource limitations? These demons, judges, etc. can give anything at the snap of a finger, and yet the new solution being spitballed is one of endless tests and iteration - not freedom. What if the thing someone wants does hurt someone? What if they want TO hurt someone? Do you create Janet babies to be hurt, so they can have what they want? I do think the show has been intentionally vague about why the good and bad are being separated, but if you assume every sentient being can live for eternity after death, what would you do with them? Destroying them seems wrong, so you could let them run free. But, wait, some of them are causing more pain and strife than others, so maybe you separate them out.... I'm not sure how you get from there to penis flatteners and butthole spiders, but it's a start.
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Jan 14, 2020 20:12
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