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Iron Crowned posted:Oh, I'm sure he'll get into some chud grifter films. he was already in fighting with my family
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Jan 15, 2020 18:08
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Grendels Dad posted:I think they are trying to pass the new movies off as deconstruction of the character and his tropes, which was still kinda fresh in Casino Royale but has turned into "let's have Bond do the same poo poo he always did, but boring". I watched a video essay about how blazing saddles was the last cowboy movie, like cowboy genre was the biggest thing for decades but was losing steam and souring the audience and blazing saddles came out and just skewered every single convention and there was really no more cowboy movies after that in the genuine model of old cowboy movies. Everything had to be 'something else' and a cowboy movie forever after that. I feel like austin powers was that to bond. James bond is so stupid and so gross that the second austin powers came out doing everything as a joke james bond lost the ability to try and do any of it legitimately and not seem pathetic. Like cold war spy was a dying genre and already one people were sour one and austin powers jammed a final nail in where if they ever did any of the things they actually did in those movies ever again everyone would say "is this an austin power's joke?"
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Jan 15, 2020 18:24
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Did that person not watch Unforgiven?
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Jan 15, 2020 18:26
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FlamingLiberal posted:Did that person not watch Unforgiven? Unforgiven is a revisionist Western. At the time Blazing Saddles was made there had been some Westerns that could be considered revisionist in some ways(The Searchers comes to mind), but really the movies that Blazing Saddles was parodying were the classic, traditional Westerns that were pretty much dead by the time Unforgiven came along almost 20 years later.
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Jan 15, 2020 18:30
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Fair enough
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Jan 15, 2020 18:38
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FlamingLiberal posted:Did that person not watch Unforgiven? I feel like that was a movie also made carefully to not step in the wreckage of all the western tropes blazing saddles made into laughingstocks. Like there was a time like a hundred or more western movies were coming out per year and there was like 40 western tv shows on the three channels that existed on tv. And they had these super huge fanbases and were all tropey as hell, then began to lose steam, became almost dead, then blazing saddles kicked every single sacred cow and made every single thread that was still hanging on fall off and no one could ever make the old style of western ever again. Every western after that had to do everything it possibly could to distance itself from old westerns and even retroactively everyone stopped talking about or thinking about any classic western that wasn't the ones that were different from the others of the time. Like in the next 20 years there will be tons of parody superhero movies but one day when superheroes have lost their hold on the public someone will make the one perfect dead on parody and it'll help crystalize what everyone was thinking about how dumb it all was and accelerate the end where no one wants to do anything with any super hero tropes and either stops entirely or only makes some other sort of movie that goes out of it's way to not be your daddy's superman.
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Jan 15, 2020 18:51
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I feel like that was a movie also made carefully to not step in the wreckage of all the western tropes blazing saddles made into laughingstocks. Like there was a time like a hundred or more western movies were coming out per year and there was like 40 western tv shows on the three channels that existed on tv. And they had these super huge fanbases and were all tropey as hell, then began to lose steam, became almost dead, then blazing saddles kicked every single sacred cow and made every single thread that was still hanging on fall off and no one could ever make the old style of western ever again. I feel the same is true with Robin Hood and King Arthur, they're still pumping out a bunch of those films but after films like Men In Tights and Monty Python And The Holy Grail it's really not possible to put the classic versions of the characters on film, it has to be a gritty Robin Hood origin film or King Arthur in a a modern high school or similar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_and_television_series_featuring_Robin_Hood#Live-action_features https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_based_on_Arthurian_legends#Film
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Jan 15, 2020 19:06
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I think the simplest way to put it is that after Blazing Saddles, almost every Western has had to be premised on "What if a Western, but......." So Unforgiven is basically Eastwood's version of that. It's "What if a Western, but instead of the classic gunslinger we take that character and see what it looks like when he's washed up and has to reckon with all the damage he's done to others over the course of his life."
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Jan 15, 2020 19:08
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https://twitter.com/lou_kicks/status/1216877045067735042?s=21 https://twitter.com/davidehrlich/status/1217508455902257153?s=20
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Jan 15, 2020 19:21
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Blazing Saddles didn’t kill the western, Easy Rider and the deconstruction of the American myth by disillusioned youth who saw the horrors of the war in Vietnam did.
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Jan 15, 2020 19:29
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K. Waste posted:he was already in fighting with my family Honestly not sure how that's a chud movie.
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Jan 15, 2020 19:36
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ruddiger posted:Blazing Saddles didn’t kill the western, Easy Rider and the deconstruction of the American myth by disillusioned youth who saw the horrors of the war in Vietnam did. Agreed that a lot went into that change but Blazing Saddles works as a handy demarcation line. Also, the video that was brought up was more about discussing the question of "could a movie like Blazing Saddles be made today?", and the answer to that is no because the thing it's parodying really hasn't existed for decades now.
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Jan 15, 2020 19:38
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https://twitter.com/htranbui/status/1217516391919693824?s=21
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Jan 15, 2020 19:40
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Basebf555 posted:I think the simplest way to put it is that after Blazing Saddles, almost every Western has had to be premised on "What if a Western, but......." Yeah, and I feel like spy movies are in that same state to a smaller degree, You can't make a spy movie anymore, making a classic one comes off as a parody. You can only make deconstructions and what ifs and deliberate avoidances of what spy movies were. Like it's only possible to make a james bond movie that is about how stupid james bond movies are (either by parody or by going hard on "this is REAL, all that stupid stuff is GONE and we HATE IT!" you couldn't just make a james bond movie anymore)
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Jan 15, 2020 19:42
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Iron Crowned posted:Gone Overboard 2 perhaps? Wasnt that remade like 2 yrs ago and bombed quietly?
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Jan 15, 2020 19:46
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I feel like that was a movie also made carefully to not step in the wreckage of all the western tropes blazing saddles made into laughingstocks. Like there was a time like a hundred or more western movies were coming out per year and there was like 40 western tv shows on the three channels that existed on tv. And they had these super huge fanbases and were all tropey as hell, then began to lose steam, became almost dead, then blazing saddles kicked every single sacred cow and made every single thread that was still hanging on fall off and no one could ever make the old style of western ever again. Every western after that had to do everything it possibly could to distance itself from old westerns and even retroactively everyone stopped talking about or thinking about any classic western that wasn't the ones that were different from the others of the time. Eh, Tombstone would disagree.
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Jan 15, 2020 19:49
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got any sevens posted:Wasnt that remade like 2 yrs ago and bombed quietly? That movie was just called Overboard and it was a remake of a Kurt Russel and Goldie Hawn movie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_Overboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overboard_(1987_film)
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Jan 15, 2020 19:54
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SimonCat posted:Eh, Tombstone would disagree. There's always going to be exceptions, none of this is an exact science.
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Jan 15, 2020 19:55
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ruddiger posted:Blazing Saddles didn’t kill the western, Easy Rider and the deconstruction of the American myth by disillusioned youth who saw the horrors of the war in Vietnam did. There were a whole bunch of factors. Spaghetti Westerns and Revisionist Westerns really broke down a lot of the tropes of the genre, the huge number of cheap Western TV shows just plain exhausted audiences and ran the genre dry, parental advocacy groups started complaining that the genre was too violent and campaigning against it, scifi and other genres were taking off and looking forwards to the future rather than looking back to the past, etc etc etc..
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Jan 15, 2020 19:57
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I'm always very wary of any claim that you "can't make" a certain genre or kind of film anymore. Genres wax and wane but all it takes is someone with a fresh eye coming along at the right time. It's a challenge, and with Bond you have the issue of the people in charge not really wanting anyone with too strong a vision coming in, but for spies in general- I mean Mission: Impossible has chugged along for quite a while just on the strength of "Tom Cruise has no sense of self-preservation."
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Jan 15, 2020 20:04
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Maxwell Lord posted:I'm always very wary of any claim that you "can't make" a certain genre or kind of film anymore. Genres wax and wane but all it takes is someone with a fresh eye coming along at the right time. It's a challenge, and with Bond you have the issue of the people in charge not really wanting anyone with too strong a vision coming in, but for spies in general- I mean Mission: Impossible has chugged along for quite a while just on the strength of "Tom Cruise has no sense of self-preservation." I'd thought that internet porn had killed the erotic thriller (Black Widow, Basic Instinct, Jade, etc) but then Fifty Shades came along and made half a billion dollars. That might have been a fluke, though.
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Jan 15, 2020 20:09
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The lovely, moralizing, sanitized cowboy TV shows of the 50s are the "good old days" that modern day Republicans want to get back to. They believe in it like kids believe in the tooth fairy.
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Jan 15, 2020 20:11
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Grendels Dad posted:I think they are trying to pass the new movies off as deconstruction of the character and his tropes, which was still kinda fresh in Casino Royale but has turned into "let's have Bond do the same poo poo he always did, but boring". It's difficult to think of any of the Craig movies as actually "deconstructing" the character. It's still the same old Bond fights megalomaniac's evil scheme, seduces hot girls, does stunts, uses gimmick device, makes quips. The photography is just glossier. It's the same old goods in a new package.
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Jan 15, 2020 20:18
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feedmyleg posted:The lovely, moralizing, sanitized cowboy TV shows of the 50s are the "good old days" that modern day Republicans want to get back to. They believe in it like kids believe in the tooth fairy. Hell, I thought the remakes of 3:10 to Yuma and True Grit were very good (especially True Grit) which were remade with a modern eye. The originals are very much in that "good old days" vein and seem very antiquated today.
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Jan 15, 2020 20:19
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:
WB started out doing this. Marvel already has a healthy attitude about how ridiculous the whole thing is, and Deadpool is one of the most successful R-rated movies ever. I'm not saying the public might not get sick of Superhero stuff, but I'm honestly in doubt that culture itself works like it did back then. People no longer have to consume what tv/movies get released, so there's less cause to burn out. They'll just watch something else. I was thinking the other day that my little nieces and nephew will never watch a rerun because that's what's on, unless they want to. They might never watch Gilligan's Island, as an example, because that's what tbs has on at 4pm. It's a total paradigm shift.
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Jan 15, 2020 20:20
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I think the audience for bond and people in 2020 is a non-touching circle.
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Jan 15, 2020 20:22
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Iron Crowned posted:Hell, I thought the remakes of 3:10 to Yuma and True Grit were very good (especially True Grit) which were remade with a modern eye. The originals are very much in that "good old days" vein and seem very antiquated today. I really liked both of those movies as well. The television series Deadwood counts as a western right? What about Brisco County Jr.?
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Jan 15, 2020 20:31
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sponges posted:Speak for yourself. I still think Bond is cool and I support what he does. quote:Within ten minutes, things became uncomfortable as we watched Bond break into a hotel room and overpower a woman in order to have sex with her. Then, of course, Pussy Galore arrives. Bond uses a series of judo moves to overpower her. He crawls on top of her, spreading her legs apart. As he tries to kiss her, she twists her face away and struggles desperately to fight him off. But, inevitably, she is beaten. Bond gets what he wants. “Ok, kids, new movie.”
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Jan 15, 2020 20:33
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nonathlon posted:It's difficult to think of any of the Craig movies as actually "deconstructing" the character. It's still the same old Bond fights megalomaniac's evil scheme, seduces hot girls, does stunts, uses gimmick device, makes quips. The photography is just glossier. It's the same old goods in a new package. Each Craig Bond tries it in it's own way, with varying results. Casino Royale: We'll completely strip away the goofiness and over the top stuff that people hated about Die Another Day. Back to basics. Quantum of Solace: We'll do a direct sequel, nobody will expect that because Bond usually is just one-off stories with very loose connections between characters. Skyfall: more of a direct reconstruction of the Bond character, with the villain basically being Anti-Bond, and lots of time spent examining the role of people like M in creating killers like Bond. Spectre: MI:6 is almost taken over by Spectre because they trusted some rear end in a top hat with the entire country's security, and Bond shows them that there will always be a role for a human being who can make the decision to pull a trigger(or not).
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Jan 15, 2020 20:36
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Are we talking about this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzMFoNZeZm0 Worth pointing out that the author contends that Blazing Saddles destroys the "wholesome west" depicted in 50s and 60s tv, like Bounty Law from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood; he acknowledges that the films that came before Blazing Saadles often had more nuance.
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Jan 15, 2020 20:48
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it’s p clear to me that casino royale was written as a standalone film without much thought given to how it would fit into a larger, multi-film franchise. it’s a great movie and reboot but evident that no one knew where to go with it (not that Quantum of a Solace or the problems with its development helped).
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Jan 15, 2020 20:48
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Jack B Nimble posted:Are we talking about this video? The wholesome west is what we're talking about though. During that time the vast majority of Westerns were of that type, and stuff like The Searchers and The Wild Bunch were the exception. Nobody's saying there weren't exceptions or that Blazing Saddles was the first Western to ever take on the tropes of the traditional Western.
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Jan 15, 2020 20:51
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I’m curious as to how many people here have even seen those so called wholesome Westerns that they’re casually denigrating. Kinda sound like you’re just basing all these lazy sweeping generalizations on stereotypes the genre has suffered.
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Jan 15, 2020 21:00
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Basebf555 posted:The wholesome west is what we're talking about though. During that time the vast majority of Westerns were of that type, and stuff like The Searchers and The Wild Bunch were the exception. Nobody's saying there weren't exceptions or that Blazing Saddles was the first Western to ever take on the tropes of the traditional Western. I think John Ford is a different kind or degree of moral simplicity as, I dunno, Bonanza. Edit: Regarding seeing them, I rewatched Stage Coach last weekend and it's absolutely not where Blazing Saddles is aiming its satire. Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jan 15, 2020 |
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Jan 15, 2020 21:01
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The guy who made that video is a goon btw, he posts in the RGD internet video thread.
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Jan 15, 2020 21:03
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It's funny to me that Batman Begins and Casino Royale were talked about in the same breath for a decade or so, and now we'll see three Batmen come and go in the time it took Craig to finish out his tenure. Batman Begins may as well be forgotten for how much TDK overshadowed it and how much TDKR and the Snyder films have obscured its initial good will.
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Jan 15, 2020 21:06
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sponges posted:I’m curious as to how many people here have even seen those so called wholesome Westerns that they’re casually denigrating. Kinda sound like you’re just basing all these lazy sweeping generalizations on stereotypes the genre has suffered. Hardly anyone is denigrating them though. They were just a product of their time and then the culture moved on and they didn't survive. Certainly there are problematic aspects to them in terms of the depiction of Native Americans, women, masculinity, etc. but the Western is hardly the only genre to have gone through those kind of issues.
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Jan 15, 2020 21:09
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sponges posted:I’m curious as to how many people here have even seen those so called wholesome Westerns that they’re casually denigrating. Kinda sound like you’re just basing all these lazy sweeping generalizations on stereotypes the genre has suffered. I've probably seen more than I realize, as I went through a big western kick about a decade ago. There are some decent ones, but as a whole, I'm not their biggest fan, so I don't go out of my way for them either, especially when you have the kind of westerns that are more in line with the Man with No Name Trilogy. feedmyleg posted:It's funny to me that Batman Begins and Casino Royale were talked about in the same breath for a decade or so, and now we'll see three Batmen come and go in the time it took Craig to finish out his tenure. Batman Begins may as well be forgotten for how much TDK overshadowed it and how much TDKR and the Snyder films have obscured its initial good will. Yeah, they were grounded reboots of super hero movies (Bond is a superhero), but past the novelty of it, there isn't a whole lot there, because they're still regular people now.
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Jan 15, 2020 21:19
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sponges posted:I’m curious as to how many people here have even seen those so called wholesome Westerns that they’re casually denigrating. Kinda sound like you’re just basing all these lazy sweeping generalizations on stereotypes the genre has suffered. I watched a few episodes of Bonanza recently. It was a lot of fun, and they had episodic storytelling down to a science, but it might as well be a science-fiction/fantasy show for how much its world resembled the historical frontier.
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Jan 15, 2020 21:20
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feedmyleg posted:I watched a few episodes of Bonanza recently. It was a lot of fun, and they had episodic storytelling down to a science, but it might as well be a science-fiction/fantasy show for how much its world resembled the historical frontier. I think calling Bonanza a western, while true, isn't necessarily descriptive. It was a show of a certain formula, and while many shows of that type were set in the west it was by no means a given. Daniel Boone (1964) was set the not-quite-western-frontier of Kentucky, and the earlier Robin Hood (1955) was set in the not-a-frontier-of-any-sort of England. And as far as "might as well be science-fiction," Star Trek was marketed as "a wagon train to the stars."
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Jan 15, 2020 21:43
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