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Penisface posted:yeah if you put it this way it is easy to see that "efforts are being made" and "scenarios can be prevented", but what i am worried about is that increasingly the cycle seems to be: That's how it feels to me as well. This is big stuff for a snipe, out-of-topic, sorry about that. It's stuff causing levels of anxiety. Seeing more and more care about it is probably the most encouraging thing about it, even if it's not sufficient yet. At this point, it feels like insurance companies and major national banks (i.e. Sweden starting to divest from anything fossil-related) may have to drag the rest of the capital kicking and screaming into being more cautious, which isn't the best way things could have been for sure, but at this point is better than nothing. Hell, renewable energy is starting to outshine the incentives provided by governments in power generation grids, and even if it's really late, it seems like for at least large parts of the world, that poo poo is being adopted faster and more effectively than before. For industrialized countries, biggest gains are easily done in large urban centers, where most of the carbon cost is in 3 areas: energy, transportation, and food production. I'm encouraged by seeing younger generations buy into the shifts in food, generally be more open to public transportation (which is more easily done at a city and regional level regardless of which idiot is at the state or national level), and the power grid may more or less improve itself out in search of profits at this point. Anyway that's all the stuff I'm hanging on to find motivation and looking forwards to improvements. It's far from good enough yet, but I feel that I'm "normal" in that I have more recently started caring much harder about that stuff and I see a lot of people having the same concerns nowadays. People being very concerned is what it takes for things to move faster and in better directions, as long as it isn't so large that they give up and become hopeless and inactive. The shift in perspective I've tried taking lately, if I can compare it to science-fiction, is to try and focus less on the negative predictions (mad-max is our future because we did nothing!) and more into "imagining what a functioning surviving society hitting its objectives would look like." It doesn't change the past, I still have no control on things besides my own (which always hurts with anxiety), but it frankly makes things much easier in terms of motivation to do the same things that I feel would need doing either way. There's a huge fear of the unknown, we only evaluate based on our current baseline, and people fear going back to the dark ages or worse. Thinking about things when it's negative and out of fear -- nothing is ever enough and it's all about giving things we have up, rather than finding the positive effects down the line -- is very paralyzing and anxiogenic. I don't know, it feels much better to imagine a society where we've taken steps about things (even if late, without magic tech that solves everything) and to then change things in my own life when it's positive towards that objective. Then all gains are at least encouraging, driven by example, and hinting towards advantages of a new thing that isn't negative and as unknown. And hopefully, either way the required changes I could make are made. I just find that framing thoughts towards positive objectives to attain rather than a negative ones to avoid makes living with reality much easier without having to ignore facts and pretending everything is great and amazing.
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Jan 12, 2020 18:38
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MononcQc posted:It's stuff causing levels of anxiety. Seeing more and more care about it is probably the most encouraging thing about it, even if it's not sufficient yet. At this point, it feels like insurance companies and major national banks (i.e. Sweden starting to divest from anything fossil-related) may have to drag the rest of the capital kicking and screaming into being more cautious, which isn't the best way things could have been for sure, but at this point is better than nothing. it's not better than nothing, because we still see the deaths of billions unless the entire world turns on a dime today at this point the best case scenarios are the worst cases from projections made ten years ago it is far, far too late to "be more cautious." caution was called for 20 and 30 years ago. now we are in crisis. MononcQc posted:Hell, renewable energy is starting to outshine the incentives provided by governments in power generation grids, and even if it's really late, it seems like for at least large parts of the world, that poo poo is being adopted faster and more effectively than before this is illusory renewables are replacing peaker plants, which are not the major cause of pollution or carbon emissions. i mean, that's good, but it doesn't decarbonize the power grid so far there are no cost-effective methods to replace base load plants which are principally coal and nuclear if those are ever replaced it will be done at tremendous cost, and be a huge drag on economic growth as power becomes radically more expensive MononcQc posted:I don't know, it feels much better to imagine a society where we've taken steps about things (even if late, without magic tech that solves everything) and to then change things in my own life when it's positive towards that objective. Then all gains are at least encouraging, driven by example, and hinting towards advantages of a new thing that isn't negative and as unknown. And hopefully, either way the required changes I could make are made. there is a gigantic engine of capitalist media built specifically to make you feel this way "thank god someone is doing something maybe it won't be that bad" is insane Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 12, 2020 18:46
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No, I'm aware of all of that poo poo. I'm saying that the way I try and frame things makes things more bearable, knowing full well how things are and how they are headed under the current projections, whether they are business-as-usual, missed targets with improvements, or instant action.
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Jan 12, 2020 18:56
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it's basically a gamble hoping that when the critical mass realizes that "we have to fix things radically NOW" the outcome is not mass panic and collapse but treating it like a war situation where everyone understands that sacrifices have to be made for the common good
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Jan 12, 2020 19:06
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a lot of journalism does have a pro-establishment bias roughly all journalism has a pro-sensationalism bias having a finely-tuned balance of panic and despair does not mean you are a sophisticated media consumer, it means you read very specific things
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Jan 12, 2020 19:21
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The framing thing is essentially that necessary changes like general public transportation networks with high usage, reduced agricultural land usage with more natural reserves for reforestation, preservation of biodiversity, renewable energy, circular economies, local living, and all of that stuff are not "a war effort-like sacrifice", they're not going back to middle-ages either, but instead desirable on their own as an improvement. They don't represent a lowering of my life standard but an improvement that I want to have regardless of climate change impact, and they're worth the effort. But that kind of thinking wasn't natural to me, is still not fully there. I happen to live in a province that gets an A on international report cards for GHG emissions, is 99% renewable, and where car transportation is 50% of total emissions and kind of easy to lower and act on, especially on an individual level, and can be improved by any level of government. I live in one of the places that warms the fastest and we already see the effects in seasonal patterns compared to when I was young. We're small and essentially I've grown up with people more or less thinking "them others have to catch up to us, we're clean here, and too small to account for much." So all I'm saying is making the necessary changes on a personal level is way easier and more motivating when I started seeing them as desirable rather than a sacrifice (even if there's a war-level type of effort required socially), and I'm way happier about any change and impact I'm making to my life regardless of how ineffective it is in the grand scheme of things. It's a purely personal thing that I feel helps my day to day, and in actually wanting to take discrete steps towards effective change. It also shifts my consumer habits, and as much as the industry and big producers have to fix things, it's also obvious that my consumerist lifestyle is part of that feedback loop and it's more positive to do a small thing than nothing at all but voting every 4 years or so. Again, it doesn't really change the world, the reality, or my situation, but it improves the way I react and deal with events, and all other variables being the same, I'm having a lower footprint without feeling I'm actually giving up anything, and I cope better. Maybe it will help other people in this thread, maybe it won't, but it's worth a bit of my time to post. MononcQc fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 12, 2020 19:33
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MononcQc posted:The framing thing is essentially that necessary changes like general public transportation networks with high usage, reduced agricultural land usage with more natural reserves for reforestation, preservation of biodiversity, renewable energy, circular economies, local living, and all of that stuff are not "a war effort-like sacrifice", they're not going back to middle-ages either, but instead desirable on their own as an improvement. They don't represent a lowering of my life standard but an improvement that I want to have regardless of climate change impact, and they're worth the effort. all those things take decades and we don't have decades actual sacrifice is necessary to have even the ghost of a chance of reducing total co2 outputs to necessary levels to sustain our civilization. electrical rationing, food rationing, reductions in concrete and steel usage, rises in taxation, bond drives, etc globally lowered standards of living and decades of economic stagnation, whenever and wherever it is not outright contraction MononcQc posted:But that kind of thinking wasn't natural to me, is still not fully there. I happen to live in a province that gets an A on international report cards for GHG emissions, is 99% renewable, and where car transportation is 50% of total emissions and kind of easy to lower and act on, especially on an individual level, and can be improved by any level of government. not everyplace can be canada with massive hydro power infrastructure
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Jan 12, 2020 20:09
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lmao if you dont already live in passive/leed certified housing and walk/take public transportation everywhere. just lmao.
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Jan 12, 2020 20:11
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take all the coal subsidies and move them towards creating proven and efficient hyperloops in every major city.
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Jan 12, 2020 20:15
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:not everyplace can be canada with massive hydro power infrastructure Canada is still one of the top 10 emitting countries in the world with under 40 million people in there. There are massive improvements to make. The country's average is 19T of CO2-equiv per capita; it's just that whereas Quebec (where I live) has something like an average of 9.5T/per capita, Alberta and Saskatchewan go for 62.4T and 66.9T respectively. But I, living as an individual in the middle of nowhere closer to northern Quebec, can still realistically do nothing about these aside from my own part, as effective or ineffective as it might be. It's one of the psychological things around eco-anxiety; no big control possible. The regular tips given all have to do with taking control where you can (your own life), finding like-minded people, finding ways to impact systems rather than just trying to erase yourself, and acting local. Notorious b.s.d. posted:all those things take decades and we don't have decades I don't know why you keep thinking I don't know all of these things. I'm not optimistic about them either. What I've been saying over and over is that framing my individual perspective so that I take action in a positive way (the changes are positive to me, not just a privation in my life) helps me personally cope with things. I've probably cut around 20-30% of my own personal GHG emissions based on little online calculators just based on habit shifts just this year (even when forgetting things like carbon offsets that probably don't have that much of an impact anyway), but it didn't make me feel any better, just like I was giving poo poo up for no drat reason. When my framing started being more positively-minded (acting towards something and not away from another), I stopped seeing it as giving poo poo up, and started seeing it as reorienting parts of my life. I started actually dealing with the world better with these things. I don't try to avoid the topic as much anymore, I don't feel like I'm giving up as much for the same adjustment, even if the reality and context as a whole hasn't changed. I still know what is needed, I still take mostly ineffectual personal action, I know the limited impact, I know the relative importance of all these things. I just feel better about it all and it's not undoing my own efforts or negating any of the reality. It's a purely personal thing where I'm saying "hey these tips kind of worked alright for me, I'm coping better with this awful reality this way". It makes things manageable to me. You can come here and go "no, no, you should definitely feel the worst you ever could about that poo poo" all you want, maybe that helps you, but it doesn't help me. MononcQc fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 12, 2020 20:37
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yes but are you wearing the right kind of shoes?
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Jan 13, 2020 01:20
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Y'all know you're supposed to be quoting poo poo posts from hn not creating them yourself right?
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Jan 13, 2020 01:53
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Here's a few, from a Shenzhen court declaring a piece of AI-generated text is copyrightable: 93po 9 hours ago [-] Looking forward to the day AI is used to generate billions of books and then compare them to every new release by a human. Then the patent/copyright trolls come out and sue human authors for copyright infringement because their awful AI book that is 50% gibberish has all the same elements and character names as the human author's book flatfilefan 12 hours ago [-] That’s your definite Turing test. Stamped, sealed, delivered. --- On companies having more power than some countries: yters 11 hours ago [-] What is the big difference between nations and corporations? bagacrap 8 hours ago [-] To transition into something resembling a government would not be very on brand for Apple. If anything they seem likely to blast off into space and colonize Mars with all the cash they've mined and stockpiled here. topologistics 9 hours ago [-] Taking away somebody's right to make a living with their chosen profession or otherwise participate in commerce is economic violence. Say you have built up a following of people over many years and you are making thousands of dollars a month from YouTube, and they they decide to shut you down overnight, I bet it's going to feel like violence when it comes time to pay bills and you no longer have any of that income you have become accustomed to.
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Jan 13, 2020 02:28
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it’s almost like that last one is suggesting that the workers should own the means of production
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Jan 13, 2020 04:07
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jppope 1 hour ago [-] Here's what you're missing... Most of the major automakers: Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, etc do not have viable business models in the near future. They are so far behind in sustainable transportation its only a matter of time until they lose their economies of scale and are no longer viable businesses. It's an "Iphone moment"... the other car companies have great "flip phones" right now. reply
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Jan 13, 2020 18:54
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no no you see its the other companies that are building phone-cars, and out dated ones at that, not the phone-car company tesla
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Jan 13, 2020 19:51
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https://twitter.com/adrianhon/status/1217037385562775552
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Jan 14, 2020 20:05
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lancemantis posted:no no you see its the other companies that are building phone-cars, and out dated ones at that, not the phone-car company tesla I hear Tesla is going bankrupt any minute now, let me link you this SA posting explaining it all.
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Jan 15, 2020 00:54
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I bet aj7 has a dope mating dance
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Jan 15, 2020 08:26
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dads friend steve posted:I bet aj7 has a dope mating dance 
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Jan 15, 2020 08:36
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quote:booboolayla:
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Jan 16, 2020 03:56
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would all of you weirdos just shut up and listen to a chubby balding white guy for a change
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Jan 16, 2020 05:30
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^ you rang?quote:BrendanEich 4 hours ago | parent | flag | favorite | on: Mozilla lays off 70
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Jan 16, 2020 06:38
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Breakfast All Day posted:SJW war colors could be ok user name
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Jan 16, 2020 11:14
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“Ask HN: Ever worked with a service that can never be restarted?” posted:
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Jan 16, 2020 14:04
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Switzerland posted:^ you rang? So we're about 3 days from Eich going full alt-right pizzagater then?
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Jan 16, 2020 15:31
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mrmcd posted:So we're about 3 days from Eich going full alt-right pizzagater then? not that that is, in practical terms, worse than spending ones money opposing marriage equality
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Jan 16, 2020 15:50
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didnt realize lowtax was resorting to asking hn about fixing the forums
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Jan 16, 2020 15:55
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yters 8 minutes ago [-] If I look at the operon structure of a genome, and squint a bit, it looks very similar to the LISP structure: (func var0 var1 ... varn) Could it be that the design of LISP is inspired by the structure of the genetic code? reply
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Jan 16, 2020 16:34
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growlist 0 minutes ago [-] Exactly! I had 'unconcious bias' training at work, one of the learning outcomes of which was to understand the 'scientific basis' for unconcious bias. After reviewing the material and finding myself somewhat dubious of its claims, I - as a good scientist working in a technical role in a technical company - went off to research for myself. Turns out the supposed scientific basis is deeply flawed. And yet, this training is being rolled out in many companies across the UK: training based on nonsense. What's deeply insulting - and worrying - is that this should be pushed on educated, intelligent people whose jobs in no small part depend on sniffing out bullshit. Do they think we won't find out the truth? Are the management so clueless/compromised that they actually believe in it? IDK.
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Jan 16, 2020 16:36
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Searle on Switches
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Jan 16, 2020 16:38
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fritz posted:growlist 0 minutes ago [-] Hmm as a undergraduate computer scientist, let me apply my well developed research skills to investigate this *cursory google* *logs into reddit*
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Jan 16, 2020 16:46
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just because you don’t take the time to comprehend it doesn’t mean it’s a black box 
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Jan 16, 2020 16:47
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mrmcd posted:So we're about 3 days from Eich going full alt-right pizzagater then? Folks I know who work for him have suggested that that happened some time ago. That post was a joke, I think. But who can tell? Let's build a machine learning solution to figure it out.
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Jan 16, 2020 17:28
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fritz posted:growlist 0 minutes ago [-] freepor 22 hours ago [-] You have to forgive the diversity training industry a little as they are being hired to convince people of a fact that is known to be wrong. If you look at the most successful tech companies in history, they are all built by teams that are >90% white and Asian men, and as they grow hire more white and Asian women. Yet we’re supposed to believe that we can do even better through different methods, and become even more successful than Apple and Amazon etc. If virtually all NBA players were eating eggs for breakfast, and someone hired you to convince young basketball players that the key to success was instead to eat cheese, wouldn’t you need to rely on anecdata and pseudoscience?
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Jan 17, 2020 15:52
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https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1218210094481055751 e: just in case the berk deletes it: quote:If you ask parents what they want for their kids, many will say "I just want them to be happy." But there are drugs that achieve this, and taking them results in disaster. So that is probably not what we should want. Switzerland fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 17:58
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lol
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Jan 17, 2020 18:03
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the gently caress are these brain worms where you cant parse 8 word sentences correctly without tripping over yourself in confusion
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Jan 17, 2020 18:04
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Suspicious Dish posted:the gently caress are these brain worms where you cant parse   
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Jan 17, 2020 19:05
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if you ask parents, most will say they don't want their children "tellin tales". however, dead men tell no tales, so that is probably not what we want (thanks to @jacksparrow for pointing this out to me.)
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