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If we end up with Zombie Admiral Perry (the first one), I think we need a Great Lakes Battleship.
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Jan 19, 2020 19:35
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Not having a carrier Saratoga is an inexcusable crime regardless of everything else
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Jan 19, 2020 19:39
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I've always thought the Royal Navy had way cooler names. Dreadnought, Victory, Indomitable, Nemesis, Inflexible, Indefatigable, Warspite, Iron Duke, Black Prince, Conqueror, Thunderer gently caress yeah. Counterpoints: HMS Buttercup, Pansy, Cockchafer, Broke, Spanker, Dainty, Griper, Happy Entrance, Candytuft, Honeysuckle, Wallflower
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Jan 19, 2020 19:40
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Stravag posted:Not having a carrier Saratoga is an inexcusable crime regardless of everything else Or Lexington.
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Jan 19, 2020 19:41
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McNally posted:Counterpoints: HMS Buttercup, Pansy, Cockchafer, Broke, Spanker, Dainty, Griper, Happy Entrance, Candytuft, Honeysuckle, Wallflower Don't talk poo poo about HMS Spanker.
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Jan 19, 2020 19:41
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Btw..what is wrong with the name HMS Happy Entrance? That was dope.
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Jan 19, 2020 19:42
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Just use the society names or whatever from that book series ive been meaning to read. "Good ide at the time", "This again, Really?" Etc
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Jan 19, 2020 19:42
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Stravag posted:Just use the society names or whatever from that book series ive been meaning to read. "Good ide at the time", "This again, Really?" Etc Agreed
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Jan 19, 2020 19:43
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The Culture series is space opera by a writer whose other job was Real Literature. So it's chock full of non-traditional narrative structure, unreliable narrators, ambiguous protagonists, and surprise changes of perspective. My favorite is probably the book Matter where the first chapter is entirely 14th century feudal politics with few hints that this isn't just high fantasy. The second chapter is a cyberpunk assassination on high speed hoverbike. Definitely space opera but also definitely not an easy read.
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jan 19, 2020 |
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Jan 19, 2020 19:46
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while I generally don't like the naming of ships after people, Dorie Miller, in addition to absolutely exemplifying hard navy in all of the best ways, offers some outstanding possibilities for ship nicknames. some examples include glorious dorius, big D, and any one of the endless combinations involving "Miller time"
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Jan 19, 2020 19:47
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I've always thought the Royal Navy had way cooler names. Dreadnought, Victory, Indomitable, Nemesis, Inflexible, Indefatigable, Warspite, Iron Duke, Black Prince, Conqueror, Thunderer gently caress yeah. Those are cool names for cool ships, but the US Navy is not cool enough for them. I wish to revise my ship name rules: US aircraft carrier names should be strictly limited to battles (which covers Lexington and Saratoga) and cool words like Enterprise. I grant them special dispensation to re-use Nimitz when the current one is retired, but other than that, NO PEOPLE. Dorie Miller is an excellent choice for a ship name but he can get something that's almost as cool as a carrier, like an assault ship
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Jan 19, 2020 19:47
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Can't think of a Star Destroyer with a lame name. Empire is my go-to when something needs a badass name for an exercise or whatever.
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Jan 19, 2020 19:50
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Name more ships Gay Viking 
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Jan 19, 2020 19:53
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I always feel bad for the ships that just have an alphanumeric. Hard to wax lyrical about something called K-19.
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Jan 19, 2020 19:59
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Kesper North posted:I always feel bad for the ships that just have an alphanumeric. Hard to wax lyrical about something called K-19. A climber said this about K2, and I know about it because it's on the Wikipedia page. It can be done: quote:...just the bare bones of a name, all rock and ice and storm and abyss. It makes no attempt to sound human. It is atoms and stars. It has the nakedness of the world before the first man – or of the cindered planet after the last.
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Jan 19, 2020 20:09
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Guest2553 posted:Can't think of a Star Destroyer with a lame name. Empire is my go-to when something needs a badass name for an exercise or whatever. Pretty sure Star Destroyer names are all taken from the British Empire.
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Jan 19, 2020 20:12
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Arglebargle III posted:Pretty sure Star Destroyer names are all taken from the British Empire. But the Empire did all the work of culling the Cockchafers and Pansys from the Firestorms and Inexorables so you don't have to.
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Jan 19, 2020 20:18
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:George H.W. Bush? not quite as terrifying
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Jan 19, 2020 21:02
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McNally posted:Counterpoints: HMS Buttercup, Pansy, Cockchafer, Broke, Spanker, Dainty, Griper, Happy Entrance, Candytuft, Honeysuckle, Wallflower I'm sure I've mentioned this somewhere before, but my great uncle was killed when HMS Flirt was sunk in 1916. I'm somewhat ambiguous as to how amusing I find the name...
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Jan 19, 2020 21:07
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Captain von Trapp posted:A climber said this about K2, and I know about it because it's on the Wikipedia page. It can be done: god loving drat yeah alright that totally owns now
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Jan 19, 2020 21:12
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Mortabis posted:Disagree, they should be states. Subs get states/cities for the most part
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Jan 19, 2020 21:17
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Mazz posted:Subs get states/cities for the most part State names should be reserved for the most important vessels like they were with battleships.
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Jan 19, 2020 21:19
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Mortabis posted:State names should be reserved for the most important vessels like they were with battleships. Which is why theyre given to subs packing nuclewr missiles
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Jan 19, 2020 21:29
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Politicians should be reserved for support vessels. “Are we going to an aircraft carrier?” “No sir, we’re headed to the USS Walter Mondale. It’s a laundry ship.”
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Jan 19, 2020 21:52
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bewbies posted:https://news.usni.org/2020/01/18/next-ford-class-carrier-to-be-named-after-pearl-harbor-hero-doris-miller You reckon Trump will allow that to happen on his watch?
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Jan 19, 2020 22:10
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All the good names have one thing in common - they have good stories to go with them, or triggers your imagination to make one up (British Empire's Revenge, looking at you). USS Midway is an actual awesome name, and it's not because it means half of the way to somewhere. Speaking of, the south korean tank K2, like the mountain, has a very scary name for the north korean soldier that would have to face it. Now that you know the secret - go forth and make better-er names! USS Anger USS Desert Storm USS Space Race, because we won and you lost (USS O.J. Simpson)
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Jan 19, 2020 22:14
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USS Darude Sandstorm
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Jan 19, 2020 22:16
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USS ”Police Action”
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Jan 19, 2020 22:22
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USS Blurred Lines
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Jan 19, 2020 22:26
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:All the good names have one thing in common - they have good stories to go with them, or triggers your imagination to make one up (British Empire's Revenge, looking at you). On the other hand, for every USS To Hell and Back you'd get a USS American Sniper, and that seems utterly inadequate.
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Jan 19, 2020 22:28
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USS Iran-Contra what? it means we're against Iran! Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jan 19, 2020 |
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Jan 19, 2020 22:33
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USS Election Results
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Jan 19, 2020 22:34
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USS
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Jan 19, 2020 22:41
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USS Henry Kissinger
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Jan 19, 2020 23:06
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Traditionally (as in ca. WW1-WW2) it went: Destroyers/Frigates/Other smaller ships: kinda whatever. Bias towards famous people, but sometimes small cities or counties or whatnot. Cruisers: cities. Battles also sneak in, but most of them are also city names so whatever. USS San Francisco, etc. It feels like the CLs were smaller cities than the big CAs, but I don't know if that was ever a policy. Battleships: states. Submarines: ongoing debate between WW1 and WW2 over whether they were boats or ships. As boats the tended to just get serial numbers. Eventually you see fish names come to the forefront. USS Sturgeon etc. Carriers: here's where poo poo gets weird. Technically they were seen as a form of cruiser (hence the "C" in "CV" - the V being a french word for flight or aviation or something.) So . . . . yeah. The first one was the USS Langley, named after a person. Made sense as he was a naval aviation pioneer iirc. Next followed Lexington and Saratoga, named after cities/battles. Those were all cruisers that were converted mid-construction. Then the first purpose built CV, the Ranger, named for older ships in the USN (the first one was a war of 1812 vintage armed schooner that was a privateer before being commissioned into the USN - CV4 was the 4th USN ship of the name). Note that there was supposed to be a battlecruiser Ranger but it was early enough in construction that it was scrapped rather than converted like Lexington and Saratoga. Then Yorktown (battle) Enterprise, Wasp, and Hornet (all 3 legacy names that were being reused), Essex (legacy name of a RN ship captured by the USN in 1814), Yorktown again, Intrepid (another legacy and another one we get via capturing a RN ship), Hornet again, Franklin (legacy - using the name dates to the Revolution as patriotic name of a privately commissioned vessel). The pattern basically continues. Mostly battles, some legacy names, and a smattering of people names here and there although most of those are also legacy names. There's a CVL named "Wright" after an auxiliary ship called "wright" in honor of Orvile, for example. Forrestal is where poo poo starts to break down. He was the first Secretary of Defense and the last SecNav when that was a cabinet level position. Still, that ship was commission pretty close to when he died so . . . if you want someone to glare at for having political figures on capital ship names this is him, although he's not quite what you'd call a politician. USS Kitty Hawk is an oddball around this time, technically a legacy name although the previous one was another auxiliary ship and it was named after the famous birth of flight location. Still, at least airplane adjacent and makes sense. The USS JFK (CV-67, the last conventionally powered CV) is where poo poo really falls apart. Now, kennedy WAS a Navy vet and the whole PT-109 thing was kind of high profile after his presidency. Still, mostly it was because he was a president killed by an assassin. After that, though, the dam breaks. Following Kennedy you have the Nimitz, Eisenhower, and then the Carl Vinson. Carl Vinson was a congressman from Georgia who was a strong proponent of the Navy. With him you have just a politician who happened to like ships a lot. I mean, he's a big reason that the US had a two-ocean navy as policy before WW2, but still. This is also significant because by the time you're laying down the CVNs the carrier is by far and away the prestige capital ship. The pride of place that used to be assigned to battleships has long since gone to the carrier, so putting the names of individuals on them is a much higher honor than it would have been twenty years earlier. After that it's mostly presidents. Lincoln etc. Then we get the first just baldly political one, the USS John C Stennis. Stennis was an influential senator from Mississippi and one of the last of the old school Dixiecrats. As an aside he was also a huge loving segregationist and voted against every piece of important racial legislation that you care to name. When he retired then-President Reagan announced that the next CVN would be named after him in recognition of his long service to the senate. Thank loving god Strom Thurmond didn't retire under Reagan, I guess, or we could have a carrier named after him too. Note that when Reagan did that is about when the Republicans were pushing hard into courting the old school southern democrats so I've always suspected that it was part of reaching out to them to draw them away from the rest of the democratic party. Stennis is still in service, incidentally. After Stennis we get the Truman, and then the current streak of nakedly political recent presidents: Reagan, Bush, Ford. There's still an un-named CVN-82 slated to be built after Dorris Miller, so we'll see what direction they dive with that. What about some of the oddball classes that have emerged since WW2? Well, the destroyers mostly follow the traditional pattern. Frigates basically do the same thing, too. Assorted tenders and support vessels can vary a lot, although you'll find a lot of county names among them. Also some just small towns. There's a USS Presque Isle, which is a small town in northern maine most notable for being near the now-closed Loring AFB. Lots of mountains, rivers, and other geographical features as well. The LHA/LSD/other amphib assault ships have kind of taken over the battles, doubly so for the ones that carry out air operations as well. USS Iwo Jima etc. You also see a smattering of what I guess you could call patriotic landmarks, stuff like USS Mount Vernon. Still, they look the closest to the old carrier names as anything that we're currently using. The new LCS class seems to be dipping back into state names, USS Omaha and USS Detroit being good examples. Now, as an aside, the submarines get super fun and weird too, for more or less the same reason that the Carriers do. As I alluded to before there was a bit of a tiff in navy circles about whether a submarine qualified as a dignified "ship" or merely as a "boat." For the curious, the official USN definition is that a boat is a small craft of minor importance that has to operate from a larger ship. Think the difference between a big troop ship and the small landing craft that they use to send marines ashore. Now, early submarines tended to have extremely limited range and not do well in rough seas. There were also some that were literally launched from larger vessels, although I don't know if the US used any of them. Either way, submarine tenders were pretty important to their operation. By that definition they were boats. But, as they improved and became capable of longer and longer operations it became harder to argue that they were mere boats. Eventually you see the difference between "submarine" and "fleet submarine" - with the "fleet submarine" being defined as larger ships capable of extended voyages and, most importantly, reaching a high enough top speed to keep up with the battleships. So, the idea being, those smaller craft were more like coastal defense boats and the larger ones were more akin to true fleet ships. Anyways, this is part of why you see a strange smattering of actual names and just hull numbers. Some named submarines had those striped when the letter/number classification system came around in the early 1900s (USS Plunger became A-1). The fish names started early. The first USS Barracuda was renamed F-1, and then by the time she was scrapped they had come back around to maybe submarines needing real names and V-1 (later SF-4) was renamed to USS Barracuda (SS-163). Through the 30s and WW2 it's wall to wall fish names with the occasional nautical mammal sneaking in. Still, wildlife that lives in the ocean. Straightforward enough. This keeps on trucking happily along well into the SSN era. Then, boomers happen and like all boomers, they ruin nice things. The first SSBN gets named George Washington, starting a trend of naming them after important historical figures. Mostly presidents, but loving Robert E Lee sneaks in early on. You also see Ethan Allen, Sam Houston, and Thomas Edison. By the time you get into the mid 60s dead presidents are thin on the ground for naming SSBNs after and it's just a string of people who are important in US history, including people like Tecumseh and Kamehameha who would have probably been horrified to have a USN ship named after them. Oh, and the oddball USS Lewis and Clark which is named after two people because I guess splitting that between two ships wasn't an option? This is the same era where we get a USS Will Rogers for gently caress's sake (and I checked, it's named after the humorist not Will Jr. who fought in WW2 and became a politician). Then politician names start to intrude into the SSNs. About the same time as the JFK was commissioned we get SSN-680. It was originally supposed to be USS Redfish, but congressman William Bates died in 1969 and got the ship named after him. Now, he was a big proponent of nuclear propulsion in the Navy so it's more of a Forrestal situation than anything else, but still. Not too long after him we get the USS Glenard P. Lipscomb, which is just named after a congressman from California who died the year before it was laid down. At this point fish names are dead. Thankfully we don't go full idiot with naming them after dead congressmen, although a couple more sneak in. With SSN-688 we get the USS Los Angeles and a gear shift over to the old cruiser naming convention. Honestly this actually makes sense. The cranky old man in me wants there to be a USS Sturgeon in the USN, but I can recognize that a nuclear powered submarine is a full fledged capital ship these days. If we go back to the old boat/ship debate we're well into them being some of the most capable and deadly ships afloat. The USS Rickover sneaks in with SSN-709 but it's kind of hard to complain about that one. He's the sort of super-influential person for a single narrow service that I can see making an exception. Of course if an SSN is basically the modern cruiser it makes sense for the boomers to be the modern battleship. Starting with the Ohio we see the old BB naming scheme applied to SSBNs. Then I guess we decide SSBNs are too expensive to have that many, and I guess some states feelings were getting hurt, so we downshift and start naming SSNs after states too, starting with SSN 774, USS Virginia. We get Rickover II with SSN-795, but again, loving Rickover. Coming up we've got a new class of submarine under design, which will be the USS Colombia, marking the first ship named after DC. We won't give the citizens of the nation's capitol representation in congress, but hey we'll name a ship after them. . . . . hooooly gently caress that went longer than I intended. Anyways, point being that USN ship names are a giant clusterfuck of bespoke rules and exceptions to them that become new rules. It's ugly and dumb and chaotic but if you stare long enough into that abyss patterns emerge and you start to get an intuitive sense for what kind of ship a thing is if you know when it was in service and what the name is. . . . of course now we just named a CVN after an enlisted man who won the navy cross so time to add another set of exceptions and see whether this becomes a whole new thing or if it becomes a new parenthetical where we have to explain the hyper-partisan political scene in 2020, the Trump administration, and growing discomfort with naming carriers after recent presidents who happen to only be from one party.
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Jan 19, 2020 23:15
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Nebakenezzer posted:USS Henry Kissinger First ship of the Kissinger class, with sister ships Gallagher, Behenna, Golsteyn, Lorance, and Calley.
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Jan 19, 2020 23:20
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Oh, and if you want some added insanity, at one point there were people very, very concerned over whether airplanes in naval service needed serial numbers, hull numbers, or names. Remember, this is pre-WW1 when they were still a novelty and no one really had any idea how many we'd have. There was a push to have them recognized as literal ships of the air and get "hull numbers" (rather than the mere serial numbers a common piece of equipment might receive) and actual names. This was also part of a dick waving contest between the Army and the Navy over who should have command of the airplanes. Is an airplane basically a scouting apparatus, the logical extension of the hard charging cavalry tradition? Or is it a ship of the skies, part of the noble tradition of seafarers and explorers pushing into spheres of creation not made for man? A man or a horse are terrestrial creatures operating in their native habitat, but a man in a boat or airship (emphasis on "ship") is a daredevil dependent on the ingenuity of man to not drown/fall to his death. This inter-branch dick waving is also a sneak preview of what happens later when missiles happen. Is a missile just very long range artillery or a pilot-less airplane? If it's artillery then the Army should get it, but if it's an airplane it's more of a USAF thing or maybe USN too I guess. THEN some rear end in a top hat realizes that helicopters can be used for combat and we have the whole argument about whether it's an airplane (domain of the USAF) or basically a fancy truck / horse / cavalry analog. (Army). We already have airborne soldiers, but if they ride helicopters to where they're going should the pilots be USAF? Oh and technically we still have cavalry . . . what if an army guy rode a helicopter into combat and shot at his foes from it? Basically like horseback harassing of a larger formation, right?
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Jan 19, 2020 23:28
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joat mon posted:First ship of the Kissinger class, with sister ships Gallagher, Behenna, Golsteyn, Lorance, and Calley. Some sort of ship that sucks the human waste out of other ships?
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Jan 19, 2020 23:31
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joat mon posted:First ship of the Kissinger class, with sister ships Gallagher, Behenna, Golsteyn, Lorance, and Calley. Will the class only have weapons that can hit themselves in the foot
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Jan 19, 2020 23:32
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Richard Nixon was an officer in the Navy in WWII and won't even be the worst President within living memory, and they still won't name a ship after him. That's why I have a big laugh at people worried about the Navy naming a ship after Trump. I bet t.here will be a USS George W Bush within the next 20 years thoughCyrano4747 posted:Cruisers: cities. Battles also sneak in, but most of them are also city names so whatever. USS San Francisco, etc. It feels like the CLs were smaller cities than the big CAs, but I don't know if that was ever a policy. My favorite city named ships are the ones the Navy has to add City of to the front of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_City_of_Corpus_Christi_(SSN-705) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_City_of_Bismarck
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Jan 19, 2020 23:32
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