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BIG HEADLINE posted:To be fair, everyone thought WW1 was going to be over in ~two weeks. I mean, I think we all think the same about WW3. Assuming it goes nuclear, but how could it not? Maybe the world beats up North Korea and that's the self congratulatory title and we ruin that too
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Jan 24, 2020 05:50
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Cat Army 
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The Iron Rose posted:I mean, I think we all think the same about WW3. Assuming it goes nuclear, but how could it not? WW3 will be slow, methodical, and pointless...right up until it becomes quick, reactive, and vindictive. There are many academics that think that WW3 has already started, the same way that you can't say WW2 in Europe started with the German invasion of Danzig. poo poo's going to get very real, very fast once Western civilization starts losing their heretofore-taken-for-granted creature comforts (like coffee and tea, for instance) in huge chunks instead of tiny little bites. As always, the third world will suffer (and be enslaved) first in the hopes of staving off the collapse/implosion of 'civilized' society as long as possible (not talking about societal collapse, but rather a dispensing with any and all prior illusion of diplomacy and decorum), but then it'll become a rehash of the bad old days as the remaining wealthy powers fight and squabble over potable water and last tracts of arable land. India and Pakistan will potentially be a terrible preview of a much wider-scale conflict to come. But hope springs ever eternal. 
BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 07:38
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If India and Pakistan had a limited-only-by-their-technology nuclear exchange tomorrow, I would be bitterly disappointed, but I wouldn't necessarily be surprised.
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Jan 24, 2020 08:08
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Memento posted:If India and Pakistan had a limited-only-by-their-technology nuclear exchange tomorrow, I would be bitterly disappointed, but I wouldn't necessarily be surprised. Given the specifics, nothing regarding a India-Pakistan nuclear war would be "limited". They've got enough ordnance and delivery vehicles between them to gently caress SE Asia for a millennium. a noob, unrelated question. What is that "zimmerit" like looking coating on top of the Mk41 cell covers?  I don't see this in other applications, like the Chinese UVLS for example. 
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Jan 24, 2020 08:48
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Dante80 posted:Given the specifics, nothing regarding a India-Pakistan nuclear war would be "limited". They've got enough ordnance and delivery vehicles between them to gently caress SE Asia for a millennium. I know, it's come up a few times before like "what would a limited nuclear exchange look like?" and the answer is invariably "there's no such thing". We would be solidly hosed in Australia, between the massive influx of refugees and the southern Summer monsoon season drawing its winds from that area. poo poo would get really bad really quickly.
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Jan 24, 2020 08:51
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Memento posted:If India and Pakistan had a limited-only-by-their-technology nuclear exchange tomorrow, I would be bitterly disappointed, but I wouldn't necessarily be surprised. If India and Pakistan kicked off a full commitment nuclear exchange tomorrow, we'd all be way more than disappointed. There'd be three kinds of fallout - radioactive, economic, and existential. There is no modern societal mental benchmark for what happens when people wake up and find out 50 million people died while they slept, and that tens to hundreds of millions more will die soonish of irradiation, starvation, and thirst, as well the utter ruination of the Indian subcontinent from an agricultural standpoint (I'm sure hundreds of millions of refugees will be easy to resettle  ). WW2 doesn't count - while the immediate body count might be comparable to WW2's fatalities, people in WW2 knew the butcher's bill was going to be enormous and had time to wrap their heads around it. And while Joe Shitheads and Nigel McBrexits might grin and giggle privately with glee about nearly a billion brown people suffering agonizing deaths,  and the markets would react *violently* to the sudden and definitive removal of ~3 trillion dollars in combined GDP (of just India and Pakistan alone, not counting regional effects on nearby nations) and well over a billion consumers who suddenly can't buy/produce *anything*.And we'd get to see it all live, 24/7, in glorious 4K.
BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 08:56
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Hollywood actually got that absolutely right: the only way to win is not to play.
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Jan 24, 2020 09:04
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Which a reason btw for ABM and small-yield nukes being a pretty major destabilization factor as far as deterrence is concerned.
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Jan 24, 2020 09:06
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Dante80 posted:Which a reason btw for ABM and small-yield nukes being a pretty major destabilization factor as far as deterrence is concerned. Yup! The Russian SLAM wannabe might be the ~sexy~ doomsday weapon everyone's talking about at the moment because it already has a body count, having dethroned the doomsday torpedo, but honestly the most dangerous weapon in the world right now - ~in my humble opinion~ is the W76-2. Some people might be all "isn't a ~good~ thing that we're not putting W76-1s or worse, W88s on those D5s?" No, because when the warhead is 'only' 5-7 kilotons, you're way more likely to use them as warfare becomes increasingly asymmetric and unconventional. The offensive use of the MOAB in Afghanistan was a watershed event - up until that point those weapons had been merely showpieces in a pissing contest between Russia and the US. Actually *using* one - even if it's in under an "Operation Useless Dirt" context, ratchets up the stakes - and that has the chance of leading to poo poo like B61-12s being used asymmetrically, because "it's only 300 tons, stop being such a pussy!" BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 09:17
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BIG HEADLINE posted:It was the Spartan that used a huge fuckoff five megaton warhead, one that was tested underground in the Cannikin test in Alaska: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IrbuIIMY50 I swear to god that's William Shatner narrating over a TOS or TOS-inspired score.
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Jan 24, 2020 09:25
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mllaneza posted:I swear to god that's William Shatner narrating over a TOS or TOS-inspired score. He narrated Trinity and Beyond, so yeah, it probably is. I don't remember my VHS copy having the Cannikin test on it, so it's feasible that there was extra footage or a revised version for DVD that I've yet to see. Yup, it's a new collection: https://www.amazon.com/Atomic-Journeys-Welcome-Ground-Zero/dp/B00004XMTF The 2000 version's cover is atrocious - the 2006 version's cover alone is worth spending $7.50 more on. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 09:30
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Dante80 posted:Given the specifics, nothing regarding a India-Pakistan nuclear war would be "limited". They've got enough ordnance and delivery vehicles between them to gently caress SE Asia for a millennium. Just a guess from peanut gallery, but maybe anti-slip coating? I'm guessing chinese VLS is maybe made from different materials so it's not as slippery.
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Jan 24, 2020 10:06
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Just to give some perspective on what a major war between Pakistan and India would look like, consider North Korea. One major reason China keeps propping them up (besides being a useful foil to the US and providing China with more regional authority) is that China is utterly terrified of how to deal with the NK population if it turns into a refugee crisis, and that's only 25 million. India and Pakistan would be many orders of magnitude worse and more difficult to deal with, for any number of reasons.
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Jan 24, 2020 10:46
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Shooting Blanks posted:Just to give some perspective on what a major war between Pakistan and India would look like, consider North Korea. One major reason China keeps propping them up (besides being a useful foil to the US and providing China with more regional authority) is that China is utterly terrified of how to deal with the NK population if it turns into a refugee crisis, and that's only 25 million. India and Pakistan would be many orders of magnitude worse and more difficult to deal with, for any number of reasons. EU is losing their poo poo and going full speed towards fascism just on account of some 5 million refugees. US is the same. Imagine what would happen if that number got multiplied by at least fifty.
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Jan 24, 2020 10:50
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The "funny" thing is that we won't really have to imagine that for much longer..in the following decades the number of people that will be displaced due to environmental reasons alone is absolutely ludicrous. T_T
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Jan 24, 2020 10:54
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Dante80 posted:Given the specifics, nothing regarding a India-Pakistan nuclear war would be "limited". They've got enough ordnance and delivery vehicles between them to gently caress SE Asia for a millennium. My guess is some kind of heat resistant coating; they do get blasted by the rocket/booster exhaust of the other tubes on launch. Metal lids might’ve deformed a bit after awhile in testing. Non-slip makes sense too.
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Jan 24, 2020 11:00
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Dante80 posted:The "funny" thing is that we won't really have to imagine that for much longer..in the following decades the number of people that will be displaced due to environmental reasons alone is absolutely ludicrous. T_T Yeah there's 120 million people living in and around the Pôdda River delta (Bangladesh, India, Myanmar) within 1m of sea level. They're already seeing displacements due to rising tides. Sooner or later they're all going to have to find somewhere else to live.
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Jan 24, 2020 11:04
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Mazz posted:My guess is some kind of heat resistant coating; they do get blasted by the rocket/booster exhaust of the other tubes on launch. Metal lids might’ve deformed a bit after awhile in testing. Ooh, that would make sense. Twould also explain why the coating doesn't cover the whole lid; the sides are thicker/reinforced.
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Jan 24, 2020 11:11
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BIG HEADLINE posted:WW3 will be slow, methodical, and pointless...right up until it becomes quick, reactive, and vindictive. There are many academics that think that WW3 has already started, the same way that you can't say WW2 in Europe started with the German invasion of Danzig. Gervasius posted:EU is losing their poo poo and going full speed towards fascism just on account of some 5 million refugees. US is the same. Imagine what would happen if that number got multiplied by at least fifty. 
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Jan 24, 2020 11:19
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Gervasius posted:EU is losing their poo poo and going full speed towards fascism just on account of some 5 million refugees. US is the same. Imagine what would happen if that number got multiplied by at least fifty. Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Jan 24, 2020 11:33
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mlmp08 posted:Oh. Has an engine that uses air to function. Jet, turbojet, piston, etc. Not ballistic ordnance or rocket engine. Or a robot. Or a zombie. I guess vampires don’t need to breathe air either.
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Jan 24, 2020 13:09
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Dante80 posted:Given the specifics, nothing regarding a India-Pakistan nuclear war would be "limited". They've got enough ordnance and delivery vehicles between them to gently caress SE Asia for a millennium. Looks like non-skid. VLS tubes are on an external deck that could potentially see a lot enlisted moving about under wet and slippery conditions.
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Jan 24, 2020 13:56
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One thing that is often forgotten when theorizing a Pakistan-India nuclear exchange is how much fallout will go down river into Bangladesh 
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Jan 24, 2020 15:17
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I had to look up pop densities and some other basic stats for the south asian countries for a work thing and I'm not an expert but that poo poo looks a bit worrying. So is there a collective term for non-air-breathing stuff or do you go airbreathing, ballistic, rocket-powered or something?
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Jan 24, 2020 15:29
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Top Hats Monthly posted:One thing that is often forgotten when theorizing a Pakistan-India nuclear exchange is how much fallout will go down river into Bangladesh Between proximity to India and Pakistan, and the fact that it is both a large population barely above sea level, they need to be figuring out long term plans yesterday. There aren't a lot of countries at more risk from climate change than they are, and even in the best case scenarios (i.e. carbon emissions start to reduce drastically AND there isn't a major conflict in the region) they will have to make some very hard decisions. They could very well be the canary in the coal mine
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Jan 24, 2020 17:24
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Yup! The Russian SLAM wannabe might be the ~sexy~ doomsday weapon everyone's talking about at the moment because it already has a body count, having dethroned the doomsday torpedo, but honestly the most dangerous weapon in the world right now - ~in my humble opinion~ is the W76-2. Some people might be all "isn't a ~good~ thing that we're not putting W76-1s or worse, W88s on those D5s?" No, because when the warhead is 'only' 5-7 kilotons, you're way more likely to use them as warfare becomes increasingly asymmetric and unconventional. The offensive use of the MOAB in Afghanistan was a watershed event - up until that point those weapons had been merely showpieces in a pissing contest between Russia and the US. Actually *using* one - even if it's in under an "Operation Useless Dirt" context, ratchets up the stakes - and that has the chance of leading to poo poo like B61-12s being used asymmetrically, because "it's only 300 tons, stop being such a pussy!" Considering the fact that the Trident II CAN carry 14 of the fuckers (but they don't carry 14 per New START and other treaties, but are not limited to 1 warhead on the Minuteman III (Again due to New START) vs. the three they could carry on design. Killing off the Peacekeepers was loving stupid. The rather scary thing is, since 2000. Russia has developed 6 new ICBM's (includes SLBMs), 4 of which are now in service. But they have a total of 14 delivery systems in active use today. 6 of them with CEPS under 200m. China has developed 4 new ICBM's, with a total of 7 systems in service. The CEP for the Chinese stuff is over 1KM, but almost all of China's ICBM warheads are 1MT to 4 MT so it really doesn't matter with that much boom. The newest US ICBM is the Trident II, which really isn't a net new. I won't even get into the issues with the age of the Ohio's (the newest being over 22 years old, and the oldest in service 35 years old) and the hold ups on the Columbia-class. Meanwhile the Russians have Borei (16 RSM-56's per hull), Delta IV (these are getting old now but have 16 R-29's per hull). The chinese are building more new hulls (Type 95s) the Indians are building new hulls (Arihant)... EvilMerlin fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 17:44
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EvilMerlin posted:The CEP for the Chinese stuff is over 1KM, I have some trouble believing this, given the day and age we are living in, as well as the specifics in Chinas' LV, BDS and Space programs. Dante80 fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 18:06
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Shooting Blanks posted:they need to be figuring out long term plans yesterday They mostly are not, because there simply aren't any good ones to be had even if you overlook the government corruption and poverty. The other side of the coin is "Who will deal with the inevitable Bangladeshi refugee crisis and how?," and be it more local or Europe/Australia/China/Western Hemisphere, the answer is very likely going to involve concentration camps and/or violence. Personally, I blame the British Empire for creating this situation in the first place.
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Jan 24, 2020 18:33
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Did you catch the bit about how the Bangladeshis were planning to "resettle" the Rohingya on an island that periodically submerges?
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Jan 24, 2020 19:08
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Dante80 posted:I have some trouble believing this, given the day and age we are living in, as well as the specifics in Chinas' LV, BDS and Space programs. They haven't updated a lot of their older systems yet. Remember most of the early stuff is based on Russia's older stuff. The newer weapon systems however are even more accurate than the US's current lineup.
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Jan 24, 2020 20:05
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aphid_licker posted:Did you catch the bit about how the Bangladeshis were planning to "resettle" the Rohingya on an island that periodically submerges? It seems no matter what country, Aboriginals and ethnic groups that are "fringe" are treated like loving poo poo.
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Jan 24, 2020 20:07
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EvilMerlin posted:They haven't updated a lot of their older systems yet. Remember most of the early stuff is based on Russia's older stuff. I think that this applies mostly to the liquid fueled stuff (DF-4/first DF-5 variants), as well as the solid fuelled JL-1. My understanding is that most of those have been either replaced or upgraded by now. Of course, I may be wrong in this. Dante80 fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 20:24
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EvilMerlin posted:It seems no matter what country, Aboriginals and ethnic groups that are "fringe" are treated like loving poo poo. This is 100% accurate outside of protected uncontacted peoples in places like Brazil. And even then, there are often other locals that don't give a gently caress about the law and will break it if they can profit from it.
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Jan 24, 2020 20:34
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piL posted:Looks like non-skid. VLS tubes are on an external deck that could potentially see a lot enlisted moving about under wet and slippery conditions. It's definitely just standard non-skid, a few chunks always go flying when you let a missile loose but it's not a big deal.
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Jan 24, 2020 20:44
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How would the TBI casualties from the Iranian missile strike have been counted after say Pearl Harbor? Would they have counted as WIA or would it not have been recognized / treatment basically have been "stop moping ya lazy bastard"?
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Jan 24, 2020 22:16
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aphid_licker posted:How would the TBI casualties from the Iranian missile strike have been counted after say Pearl Harbor? Would they have counted as WIA or would it not have been recognized / treatment basically have been "stop moping ya lazy bastard"? Depends on severity, certainly of symptoms after the fact. Recognition of TBI goes back to the 19th century at a minimum, however diagnostic accuracy and reliability has improved considerably. The earliest case I'm aware of of an individual with a dramatic shift in personality from TBI is Phineas Gage, who I'm sure most of you have heard of.
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Jan 24, 2020 22:33
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Phineas cages case wasnt ”invisible /nonexternal TBI” though, it was very visible iron rod driven through his entire head. I think the question was more about TBI that didnt have externally visible ”wounds”
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Jan 24, 2020 22:43
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As memory serves, the worst of Gage's symptoms appeared after swelling and infection had really set in (particularly the latter).
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Jan 24, 2020 23:06
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What was the cause of the TBIs in the missile strike? Was it the roof beams falling in or was it just concussive shockwaves causing it? It doesn’t mention in the articles I have read.
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Jan 24, 2020 23:34
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So..space force. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1220821545746141187
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Jan 24, 2020 23:36
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