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Mordiceius posted:I feel like you could follow a train of thought in that the more of an impact you've made on the world, the longer you'd want to spend in The Good Place. Sounds like the way it worked in Coco, in that the more people who remembered you the better off your afterlife was...and when no one remembered you, poof you're gone for good.
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Jan 26, 2020 05:47
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No, even in Coco, it was "we don't know where you go" when that happens. It's kind of funny when movies and shows about the afterlife imply the existence of an afterafterlife.
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Jan 26, 2020 06:25
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I wonder if we have it backwards - that it isn't death that gives life meaning but rather it is life that gives death meaning? After all, if I didn't exist, then what does my continued non-existence mean? It's only by my presence that my absence can be felt.
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Jan 26, 2020 06:55
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Argue posted:No, even in Coco, it was "we don't know where you go" when that happens. It's kind of funny when movies and shows about the afterlife imply the existence of an afterafterlife. Well yeah, I was mostly talking about the specific similarity with regards to fame and a better afterlife.
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Jan 26, 2020 07:14
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Seeing people who are terrified of their own mortality trying to nitpick this show is hilarious. One day you will die, perception will end forever, you will cease to be. No amount of begging and pleading with an invisible sky wizard will change that. The idea of an afterlife is at best a comforting fiction and at worst sheer denial of the inevitable. This show has already rejected all known religions and deities, why get pissy now at the idea.that there isn't going to be some last minute swerve to assure viewers that they can ignore confronting their own mortality in lieu.of believing in an afterlife?
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Jan 26, 2020 07:15
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:You'd think the Good Place could rewire your brain to where you don't get bored from the awesome things. The recent discussion has reminded me of an odd story I read a while back (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Metamorphosis_of_Prime_Intellect). Short version is that a program with laws like "don't harm humans" finds some physics loopholes, and to make its job easier rewrites the universe to turn it into this kind of heaven (except everyone is transferred immediately, there is no other level or 'real Earth'). Since all physical damage can be undone, a new hobby develops of designing, effectively, creative suicide methods. Then there's a problem later on where people discover they can have literally the most pleasure a human can perceive by getting the program to activate particular neurons, and do that forever ignoring all other input, which the program realises is basically suicide. I don't necessarily recommend reading it and "fiction about paradise" must be one of the oldest topics, but it makes an interesting comparison since I can't see The Good Place getting too grim with one hour to go.
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Jan 26, 2020 07:36
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Alright, so I'm calling Simone, Pillboi Doug, Eleanor's mom, Brent and Disco Janet as cameos that we will see in the series finale. Who do you goons have?
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Jan 26, 2020 07:54
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Sleeveless posted:Seeing people who are terrified of their own mortality trying to nitpick this show is hilarious. One day you will die, perception will end forever, you will cease to be. No amount of begging and pleading with an invisible sky wizard will change that. The idea of an afterlife is at best a comforting fiction and at worst sheer denial of the inevitable. This show has already rejected all known religions and deities, why get pissy now at the idea.that there isn't going to be some last minute swerve to assure viewers that they can ignore confronting their own mortality in lieu.of believing in an afterlife? Or its just a bunch of people discussing a show they like. I don't think anyone is getting pissy--they just disagree with a take or want to see something different than someone else. There's some good and interesting philosophical discussion going on. Chill out. BigBallChunkyTime fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Jan 26, 2020 |
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Jan 26, 2020 08:05
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Argue posted:No, even in Coco, it was "we don't know where you go" when that happens. It's kind of funny when movies and shows about the afterlife imply the existence of an afterafterlife. There's a good book called The Brief History of the Dead which is about a similar afterlife. The first chapter is a description of the afterlife that's just masterful. The rest of it is also good, it follows the afterlife as people start disappearing from it, and a woman who's a researcher in Antarctica. A plague kills everyone and the afterlife starts shrinking to the point where the dead start realizing she's the last person on earth because everyone who's left knows her.
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Jan 26, 2020 08:05
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Vietnamwees posted:Alright, so I'm calling Simone, Pillboi Doug, Eleanor's mom, Brent and Disco Janet as cameos that we will see in the series finale. Who do you goons have? Stone Cold better be there
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Jan 26, 2020 09:06
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Vietnamwees posted:Alright, so I'm calling Simone, Pillboi Doug, Eleanor's mom, Brent and Disco Janet as cameos that we will see in the series finale. Who do you goons have? Shaun, Cowboy Boots, that Reporter Guy who was the least interesting of the new test subjects, Mindy, Derek, Chidi's best friend, Camila, Glenn... I think that covers most of the people that appear in more than one episode.
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Jan 26, 2020 09:48
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Mr. Powers posted:I think people have made a lot of assumptions about the door. The gang specifically said they don't really know what's on the other side / what happens. I think that's foreshadowing that the door doesn't just blink you out of existence. I also agree with posters that a suicide door would be an off-brand solution for the show to end with. bitprophet posted:You make some compelling arguments here; have you considered nailing them to a door? (Wordy way to say “username/post combo” I was rewatching my favorite episodes / bits of episodes and I think there is a HUGE spoiler to the ending hidden in the episode with Chidi's Raven obsessed fake-soulmate - especially after the poster who mentioned the foreshadowing about only Pheobe being able to make it to the good place. Don't rewatch it unless you want to know or read the next bit: During the raven-soulmate episode Chidi is talking to Jason about how it's possible for Jason to just 'know' how to just do something, and he says something the effect of: I don't think I'd ever be able to walk through a door without knowing what's on the other side, I'm just not wired that way. So I think the last episode will be something to the effect of how learning, growing, and somehow through the power of friendship - you are capable of doing things you never thought yourself to be capable of. And even if something seems scary, sometimes it's the right answer for the moment, because there is no "right" answer. There is only what makes sense for you now, because at the end of the day - and eternity, the only alternative is to keep going. I wrote this inadvertently listening to 'Let it be' and 'Yesterday' by the beatles, so I teared up writing it more than I thought I would for a theory. Sorry if it's overly cheesy.
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Jan 26, 2020 10:08
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Azhais posted:Stone Cold better be there I will be disappointed if they go the whole show without Stone Cold appearing.
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Jan 26, 2020 10:38
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I get annoyed when sci-fi media acts like death as it exists now is an intrinsic part of life, and in fact a moral imperative, and that attempts to find a way to live forever are inherently immoral. The reality is that death is a bad thing that so far, we’ve had to come to terms with because it’s been unavoidable. It’s stupid that Doctor Who has done this a number of times despite the fact that its lead character is also immortal. What’s good for the Doctor isn’t acceptable for humans, I suppose? But having said that, what is being talked about in The Good Place is a step beyond that issue. Unstoppable eternal life that lasted for billions and trillions of years (and more, and more) would be horrible. What would be good, and what is proposed on the show, is indefinite life. Live as long as you want. Worrying about missing your loved ones is silly because almost everyone would hang around for multiple human lifetimes. But having to exist into the extremities of deep time would be torture. Comrade Fakename fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jan 26, 2020 |
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Jan 26, 2020 17:21
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Technically, aren't all milkshakes made of stardust? 
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Jan 26, 2020 18:19
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What if you’re allowed to come back from the afterlife door? Would that be cheating
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Jan 26, 2020 18:26
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Comrade Fakename posted:I get annoyed when sci-fi media acts like death as it exists now is an intrinsic part of life, and in fact a moral imperative, and that attempts to find a way to live forever are inherently immoral. The reality is that death is a bad thing that so far, we’ve had to come to terms with because it’s been unavoidable. It’s stupid that Doctor Who has done this a number of times despite the fact that it’s lead character is also immortal. What’s good for the Doctor isn’t acceptable for humans, I suppose? To be fair with the Doctor Who thing the long life made most of the Timelords total assholes and so it's consistent that overly long lives do that to humans as well. The doctor herself is an outlier and even she has trouble empathising every now and then, especially in her former Peter Capaldi form.
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Jan 26, 2020 18:45
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Sleeveless posted:Seeing people who are terrified of their own mortality trying to nitpick this show is hilarious. One day you will die, perception will end forever, you will cease to be. No amount of begging and pleading with an invisible sky wizard will change that. The idea of an afterlife is at best a comforting fiction and at worst sheer denial of the inevitable. This show has already rejected all known religions and deities, why get pissy now at the idea.that there isn't going to be some last minute swerve to assure viewers that they can ignore confronting their own mortality in lieu.of believing in an afterlife? source your quotes
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Jan 26, 2020 21:43
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Lutha Mahtin posted:source your quotes unfortunately sleeveless is just Like That
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Jan 26, 2020 21:50
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Comrade Fakename posted:I get annoyed when sci-fi media acts like death as it exists now is an intrinsic part of life, and in fact a moral imperative, and that attempts to find a way to live forever are inherently immoral. The reality is that death is a bad thing that so far, we’ve had to come to terms with because it’s been unavoidable. It’s stupid that Doctor Who has done this a number of times despite the fact that its lead character is also immortal. What’s good for the Doctor isn’t acceptable for humans, I suppose? You can say "death is bad" but that's not a universal truth. Even ignoring people who want to die, death _is_ an intrinsic part of life. Even a vegan subsists on death, we need death to live ourselves. Death is also important in other ways. I wouldn't want to live in a world where horrible people never die, there is literally at least 1 percent of the human population whose deaths I think would make for a remarkably better life for more people than not. Indefinite life might be cool for good people just doing nice things, but an elective-immortal who enjoys living purely to make others suffer is a bad thing in my book. Every lifeform we know is some Earth poo poo, and life here works around the ebb and flow of species and lives as conditions change, resources deplete, new niches develop, etc. Arguably it's kind of poo poo to view humans as some sort of special animal, or that consciousness in animals is the only thing that makes them worth consideration. We're so closely related to every drat thing that has ever lived and living now, even our own bodies are a weird mixture of different animals and lifeforms. In some sense we are just a flesh golem for our bellyworks' Microscopic Masters. Eternal life might be something more abstract and beautiful than individual selfish units existing in perpetuity to their personal whims. Life being a connected network of disparate species and beings working seemingly independently towards the continual replication and survival of Earth DNA.
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Jan 26, 2020 23:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUzr0AOwIhk
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Jan 27, 2020 00:06
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The Green Door just leads to the Alpha Centauri aliens afterlife, with all brand new experiences for the humans. Michael and the soul squad may or may not have to fix their system as well.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:01
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I don't get why people think it's sad or depressing to see someone realize that they have literally done Everything They Could Ever Want To Do, for as long as they want to. That's what going through the final door means. In TGP you can visit "any time or place, real or imagined." I'd go see every concert by my favorite bands. I'd hang out backstage at SNL in 1975. I'd visit every part of Earth for as long as I wanted. I'd watch MLK deliver the "I have a dream" speech. I'd relive all my favorite childhood Christmases. And that's without getting into stuff that doesn't actually exist. God knows this show is impossible to predict, but I'd bet $20 that those of you expecting that the gang will go through the final door just to find a brand-new wacky adventure are going to be disappointed. I think the final door is exactly what it says on the tin, peaceful nothingness, and that's absolutely fine.
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Jan 27, 2020 05:43
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I hope a sign on the wall says, "Everything is fine. Good-bye."
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Jan 27, 2020 06:07
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Also - I think people underestimate how long a couple hundred years is - especially when your time isn't taken up by work and other responsibilities.
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Jan 27, 2020 06:14
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Mordiceius posted:Also - I think people underestimate how long a couple hundred years is - especially when your time isn't taken up by work and other responsibilities. Or peeing. You can just go and it instantly dries up.
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Jan 27, 2020 06:21
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But really though, if you look at the math - Take someone who is 100 years old - At least 1/3 of their life is spend sleeping. Now you're down to 66 years. At least 1/3 of their life is spent working/in school/development. Now you're down to 33 years (at best). So the average person, AT BEST, has about 30 years worth of lived experiences that aren't work. If you can instantly experience anything you want, that takes away travel time and such. There's no person who doesn't run out of poo poo to do after a few hundred years. At that point there are no new experiences to be had. Also, you're an immortal being so there should be no detrimental aspects to your life. You never get sick. Your memory should be perfect. So even if you go around and do everything a second time, a third time, etc, I can't imagine being able to entertain myself beyond 500 years. But it doesn't end at 500 years. It never ends. Hence, brain zombies.
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Jan 27, 2020 07:11
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I think the discussion is interesting, but I do want to clarify that the concept that people in the good place would be burnt out and be brain zombies after infinite pleasure is a good one, and a very natural place for the show to start mining stories from. I can't speak for anyone else, but what felt off to me was the proposed solution - and not simply because the implication was effectively (and perhaps, actually) suicide, but rather because it seemed so counter to the message the show has been delivering for four seasons now, without even acknowledging that. And I also want to stress that this all could change on Thursday.
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Jan 27, 2020 07:37
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Propaniac posted:I don't get why people think it's sad or depressing to see someone realize that they have literally done Everything They Could Ever Want To Do, for as long as they want to. That's what going through the final door means. Internet communities are really, really cagey about discussing suicide as anything other than the worst thing ever, so this sort of metaphor is gonna make people uncomfortable.
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Jan 27, 2020 07:47
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Can't be suicide, they're already dead 
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Jan 27, 2020 08:15
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ashpanash posted:I think the discussion is interesting, but I do want to clarify that the concept that people in the good place would be burnt out and be brain zombies after infinite pleasure is a good one, and a very natural place for the show to start mining stories from. I agree on all points. I also just feel like this episode was basically a perfect (if perhaps saccharine) finale, so I feel really hesitant about the actual finale. It's like, "no guys you stuck the landing why are you jumping again?" But I want to have faith in Schur so I'm crossing my fingers Sleeveless posted:No amount of begging and pleading with an invisible sky wizard will change that. Cut myself on the edge in this post. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 08:17
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The Meta ending: they walk through the door and it's Mike Schur sitting in a chair, and they have a little chat.
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Jan 27, 2020 08:54
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Thranguy posted:The Meta ending: they walk through the door and it's Mike Schur sitting in a chair, and they have a little chat.
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Jan 27, 2020 08:58
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What about Derek?
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Jan 27, 2020 11:02
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Azhais posted:Stone Cold better be there And/or Tahani's head on Stone Cold Steve Austin's body or vice versa.
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Jan 27, 2020 16:59
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Thranguy posted:The Meta ending: they walk through the door and it's Mike Schur sitting in a chair, and they have a little chat. I would prefer if they walked through the door and just spoke directly to the audience, informing us what we owe to each other and how to be a good person.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:58
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Mordiceius posted:What if they go through the door and it’s just another level of existence and they’re basically doing the whole thing over with a Michael-like that is just on an even greater plane of existence. The Gooder Place does exist. And beyond that, there’s an even greater place of existence. For infinity. Through the door Brent awaits them, smiling slightly condescendingly
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Jan 27, 2020 18:06
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Khanstant posted:I would prefer if they walked through the door and just spoke directly to the audience, informing us what we owe to each other and how to be a good person. Okay yeah I'd be there for that
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Jan 27, 2020 18:27
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ashpanash posted:I think the discussion is interesting, but I do want to clarify that the concept that people in the good place would be burnt out and be brain zombies after infinite pleasure is a good one, and a very natural place for the show to start mining stories from. I agree, the only problem I have had is the speed it happened. I think this is a great thing to explore and I wish we had more time to do it. Learning the problem and solving it in one/two episodes is a little less impactful, I think.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:53
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ashpanash posted:I can't speak for anyone else, but what felt off to me was the proposed solution - and not simply because the implication was effectively (and perhaps, actually) suicide, but rather because it seemed so counter to the message the show has been delivering for four seasons now, without even acknowledging that. And I also want to stress that this all could change on Thursday. I mean it's gotta be suicide. They control all space and time at this point. The judge (who appears to be the closest thing to a singular God as the show has) was about to erase everyone an episode ago, and everyone was desperately fighting against that. They weren't like "Well, we don't know what will happen when you erase us all what a neat mystery". Ending the show with all the characters doing the Midsommar old person swan dive off a cliff.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:24
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