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Really the point of consistency is so the viewer can enjoy the drama and action and whatever without going "wait, what?" Like if Finn actually had gotten beheaded on the star destroyer but then he stood up and his head grew back and he did a sick fight scene, no matter how good the fight scene was you'd just be thinking "huh? How did his head just grow back?" Or like, if the camera cut away halfway through the movie and then when it cut back Finn was now played by Domhnall Gleason. "Huh? Why is Finn white now? Why does he look like Hux? Did he become Hux somehow? Is Hux still up on the bridge? I won't know until they show another scene with him in. I wonder when that'll be." Like you get distracted by stuff that doesn't make sense and it breaks your concentration
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Jan 27, 2020 19:40
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General Dog posted:Yeah, and that's clearly been the strategy since day 1, judging by TFA's refusal to establish any kind of broader context for the Resistance-First Order conflict. It bothered me then, but it's quite stunning and almost kind of impressive that they actually managed to complete the trilogy without ever really answering anything. They did answer one thing: Who is the best? The answer is Rey. Rey Palpatine-Skywalker.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:43
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The lightspeed skipping scene is a real head-scratcher both because it flies in the face of so many established "rules" and because it does so for such a lame, throwaway setpiece. The Holdo Maneuver raises a lot of questions and doesn't 100% make sense, but it's at least a striking visual and a critical narrative moment within the movie.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:48
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It seems pretty well established that the films come with a mandate to feature >= x planets for merch purposes, it's easy to see lightspeed skipping enduring during production solely because it was so much easy planets++
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Jan 27, 2020 19:57
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jisforjosh posted:Same, when I was younger I had it in my mind that it was a gag in Spaceballs but apparently that was just a fever dream. They do a text crawl parody in Airplane II: The Sequel and an airplane crashes through it before it finishes.
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Jan 27, 2020 20:04
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The disney end game is a feature length light speed skipping sequence, with each skip lasting only as long as necessary to reveal a different set of toyetic droids, aliens, people (but I repeat myself), vistas, ships, things you remember, and etc. A sort of ikea catalogue as film
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Jan 27, 2020 20:04
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ruddiger posted:They do a text crawl parody in Airplane II: The Sequel and an airplane crashes through it before it finishes. That's has to be what was merged in my head with Spaceballs
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Jan 27, 2020 20:16
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General Dog posted:The lightspeed skipping scene is a real head-scratcher both because it flies in the face of so many established "rules" and because it does so for such a lame, throwaway setpiece. The Holdo Maneuver raises a lot of questions and doesn't 100% make sense, but it's at least a striking visual and a critical narrative moment within the movie. There's actually kind of a stupid arms race narrative that develops across the ST, which is more coherent than most of the stuff going on. There's a throwaway line in TFA where Hux manages to track a Resistance fighter through hyperspace. Hux then reveals the experimental technology, a few days later, in TLJ. "Lightspeed skipping" is then introduced as a technique to get around "hyperspace tracking" - but it was actually quasi-foreshadowed by two scenes in TFA: when Han makes an instantaneous precision jump out of the ship's hangar, and then makes another precision jump directly into Starkiller's atmosphere. They even justify it by saying it's so incredibly difficult and/or dangerous that most people wouldn't even consider it, but obviously the new tracking makes it a necessity. Everything else about space combat is a narrative clusterfuck (in a series called Star Wars!), and even the specific details of hyperspace tracking don't withstand scrutiny. But lightspeed skipping is one of the few things that 'works'.
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Jan 27, 2020 20:58
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The lightspeed skipping makes sense in its simplest form. Han said 40 years ago that the computer has to plot a safe route or there's a chance you end up running into something. So doing a random micro-jump into the unknown definitely sounds like a last-ditch desperation move when you don't have time to plot a course. Doing it three times or whatever and showing up at planets each time is goofy though But yeah like SMG said Han's jumps in TFA pretty much blow the doors off. Every movie has new force phenomenon but the ST is really interested in new ways to use hyperspace too. Probably because lightspeed and the force are basically plot magic
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Jan 27, 2020 21:08
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That's why it doesn't work. Lightspeed skipping is presented as a mechanical issue with the ship in ROS, which in addition to not really making any sense, runs counter to it already being established as a computational problem. So the only way to lightspeed skip would be to replace the computer in the falcon with a better one. But you can't do that because the falcon already has a super special computer that's the best in the galaxy.
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Jan 27, 2020 21:18
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Ingmar terdman posted:So doing a random micro-jump into the unknown definitely sounds like a last-ditch desperation move when you don't have time to plot a course. Doing it three times or whatever and showing up at planets each time is goofy though It works if you assume Poe is following a plotted course - deliberately throwing himself into the most dangerous obstacle-filled locations they know about. It's basically an accelerated version of the 'asteroid field' scenes in prior films. The Force power poo poo is a whole other kettle of fish, though. In Lucas's films, we go from alleged-but-unproven psychic powers to scientifically proven psychic powers - but it's still just familiar pop-cultural stuff like telekinesis. In the end, the only remaining "mystical" concept is the ghosts. The ST falls apart because it specifically expands on this concept of "Force Ghosts" - so living people can become Force Ghosts, Force Ghosts can manipulate objects, etc. This culminates in you being able to grab the physical clothes off a living person's ghost, which is like Nancy being able to pull Freddy Krueger's hat out of the dream world & give it to her mom in Nightmare On Elm Street.
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Jan 27, 2020 21:33
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So are you saying that there is a cut of Episode IX that ends with Palpatine pulling Rey down into a pit on Tatooine? Because that would be funny as hell.
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Jan 27, 2020 21:51
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It works if you assume Poe is following a plotted course - deliberately throwing himself into the most dangerous obstacle-filled locations they know about. It's basically an accelerated version of the 'asteroid field' scenes in prior films. Star Wars X: The New Nightmare with Robert Englund playing Force Ghost Freddy (who wields a glove with tiny lightsabers as the blades) would be a movie I'd drop money to see.
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Jan 27, 2020 21:59
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Bogus Adventure posted:So are you saying that there is a cut of Episode IX that ends with Palpatine pulling Rey down into a pit on Tatooine? Because that would be funny as hell. The ending of episode 9 but instead of Rey sliding into the sand-covered Lars homestead, Sheev yeets her into it
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Jan 27, 2020 22:01
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Both times I've seen Episode IX, during the third act when the Rebels ride the Orbaks/Space Horses on the ships, it made me think of Donald Kaufman's screenplay in Adaptation.
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Jan 27, 2020 22:02
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Everyone posted:Star Wars X: The New Nightmare with Robert Englund playing Force Ghost Freddy (who wields a glove with tiny lightsabers as the blades) would be a movie I'd drop money to see. Zoran posted:The ending of episode 9 but instead of Rey sliding into the sand-covered Lars homestead, Sheev yeets her into it Yes to both of these, especially if Englund turns out to be Sheev's long lost brother, Steev.
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Jan 27, 2020 22:11
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Everyone posted:Star Wars X: The New Nightmare with Robert Englund playing Force Ghost Freddy (who wields a glove with tiny lightsabers as the blades) would be a movie I'd drop money to see. Well I mean, as you can guess from the reference, that’s already what the ST films are ‘about’. There’s a bizarre implication throughout that the First Order doesn’t actually exist - that it’s some paranoid vision of a technological nightmare-army (hence references to Terminator and The Matrix). This is ultimately the only good explanation for what’s going on in Episode 9. Like, I simply don’t buy this Force Teleportation horseshit - but, if Rey is giving the concept of a laser sword to a dark spirit that’s been haunting her, then it does make a modicum of sense.
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Jan 27, 2020 23:26
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Episode IX finally achieves the dictatorship of the proletariat. Everyone lives in everyone else's head, rent-free.
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Jan 27, 2020 23:34
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Halloween Jack posted:Episode IX finally achieves the dictatorship of the proletariat. Everyone lives in everyone else's head, rent-free. lmao
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Jan 28, 2020 00:00
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If we have to endure disney wars transparently airing all the grievances of american neolibs, we can at least look forward to the marauding space bernie bros in the next film who need to learn that better things aren't possible
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Jan 28, 2020 00:45
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Don't worry, you can play in my Age of Rebellion campaign
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Jan 28, 2020 00:47
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No Mods No Masters posted:If we have to endure disney wars transparently airing all the grievances of american neolibs, we can at least look forward to the marauding space bernie bros in the next film who need to learn that better things aren't possible Well, that’s already it. “It’s all a dream” is a cop-out unless we ask why this particular dream? And, in this case, it’s all but directly stated that the First Order is literally the New Republic. A different name for the same thing. Ultimately, what we’re seeing is Leia’s attempt to make sense of her failure by imagining that her political vision was brought down from an external attack by white supremacists in league with Russia and Satan. In this way, the ending of Episode 9 is a victory of ‘good feelings’ and cheerfulness over malaise - how they learned to stop worrying, and love the Death Star. Nothing has changed, or improved, but we’re smiling. The last image of the ST is Palpatine reborn as a beautiful Empress, from the incestous union of Leia and her brother.
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Jan 28, 2020 01:02
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No Mods No Masters posted:The disney end game is a feature length light speed skipping sequence, with each skip lasting only as long as necessary to reveal a different set of toyetic droids, aliens, people (but I repeat myself), vistas, ships, things you remember, and etc. A sort of ikea catalogue as film I know that the franchise’s toyetic qualities have been echoed for good reason, but it’s pretty incredible how they even fumbled that. Each movie had a cantina variant with a bunch of alien designs but they barely made any moves in the marketing. A few designs that got cut from TFA (the guy in the red suit, that Jakku guy with the wide brim hat) but those guys ended up warming pegs for months. For a company known for pumping out marketable characters, they did an amazingly terrible job at unique looking things to sell as toys. Really, the biggest things they’ve made were BB-8 and baby Yoda. They were so out of ideas that they tried to remake BB-8 again in DIO, who was already a remake of R2!
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Jan 28, 2020 01:05
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There's something really poetic that the cruiser thats at the Resistance base in TROS is the Tantive 4: It's the same regurgitated design of a ship that we all liked 40 years ago, it serves no narrative person, and it's apparently blown up off-screen.
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Jan 28, 2020 02:45
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The most infuriating throw back is the ancestor celebration being every 42 years.
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Jan 28, 2020 02:50
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Kart Barfunkel posted:For a company known for pumping out marketable characters, they did an amazingly terrible job at unique looking things to sell as toys. Really, the biggest things they’ve made were BB-8 and baby Yoda. They were so out of ideas that they tried to remake BB-8 again in DIO, who was already a remake of R2! It makes more sense when you learn that executives were reportedly terrified of creating the next Jar Jar Binks.
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Jan 28, 2020 03:08
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One of the big art people in the ST apparently thought the old school or 'colorful' alien designs in the OT and PT looked terrible and unrealistic, which might be why all the designs are some kind of brown.
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Jan 28, 2020 03:18
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Glad we got the horrifying tween elephant child then.
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Jan 28, 2020 03:52
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Mike N Eich posted:There's something really poetic that the cruiser thats at the Resistance base in TROS is the Tantive 4: It's the same regurgitated design of a ship that we all liked 40 years ago, it serves no narrative person, and it's apparently blown up off-screen. On top of that, it's on the rebel jungle planet but they still have all their war meetings outside of the ship. A ship they recreated for rogue one so they have all the blueprints for interiors on hand. Just so wimpy, so lazy
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Jan 28, 2020 05:01
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Mike N Eich posted:There's something really poetic that the cruiser thats at the Resistance base in TROS is the Tantive 4: It's the same regurgitated design of a ship that we all liked 40 years ago, it serves no narrative person, and it's apparently blown up off-screen. I thought for a moment you were referring to the generic Corellian Corvette as a Tantive IV (Which honestly was bad enough), but no, apparently it is supposed to be THE Tantive IV, the same one captured by Vader in the opening of A New Hope. W H Y 
Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 05:15
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TROS believes by showing you tokens of the past it carries meaning rather than meaning being represented by tokens of the past
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Jan 28, 2020 05:19
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Acebuckeye13 posted:W H Y Because that's how fan fiction works.
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Jan 28, 2020 05:22
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Barudak posted:TROS believes by showing you tokens of the past it carries meaning rather than meaning being represented by tokens of the past So the Corvette we see was the original Corvette from A New Hope? I... don't give a single poo poo about that. No reaction whatsoever. The Second Trilogy frustrates the poo poo out of me because that was the story I most wanted after Return of the Jedi. I wanted to know what happened next. When the prequels were announced my own reaction at the time was... muted. Okay, great, more movie Star Wars. But I pretty much figure I knew this story. Not the details, but obviously the ending. Blonde, preppy Anakin would be Vader. That nice, kindly-seeming Senator from Naboo would be the tyrannical Emperor. Yoda ends up in a swamp. Obi-wan stays on Tatooine to babysit Luke. Blah-blah, Trade Federation, blah-blah Clones, blah-blah, powers considered to be unnatural. Whatever, can we get through this bit to get to what happens next. And after all that waiting and hoping, what I got was... nothing happened next. We just got puny-scaled, poor imitation of what happened in the original trilogy. At this point I don't really care what happens next.
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Jan 28, 2020 06:08
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So, larger problems with ROS's place in the Star Wars series, have we talked about how the script feels kind of half done? Just in mechanical terms? Like it was rewritten repeatedly and so you have new characters that perform similar roles to old characters, but they weren't sure what to do with the old one so they invented a new one? From about the point when chewie dies, only he doesn't, it felt very 'by the seat of your pants' as characters disappear, reappear, things happen and are undone, things are very important and then don't matter. Someone described the relationship between this and TLJ as like improvers who don't get along, but ROS felt more like it was in conflict with itself
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Jan 28, 2020 06:08
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It works if you assume Poe is following a plotted course - deliberately throwing himself into the most dangerous obstacle-filled locations they know about. It's basically an accelerated version of the 'asteroid field' scenes in prior films. The endgame for force powers is grabbing Yoda's force ghost and teleporting it across the galaxy into Palpatine's body, exploding him from the inside out.
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Jan 28, 2020 06:33
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Snowman_McK posted:So, larger problems with ROS's place in the Star Wars series, have we talked about how the script feels kind of half done? Just in mechanical terms? Like it was rewritten repeatedly and so you have new characters that perform similar roles to old characters, but they weren't sure what to do with the old one so they invented a new one? The script isn’t the issue, as far as we know, because what we got very obviously isn’t what was on the page. As with all the Disney films, ROS was turbo-hosed in post-production. Like, it’s easy to see that FN was basically cut from the film - just the skeleton of his plotline remaining. The entire opening scene, revealing Palpatine is alive, was originally meant to take place halfway into the film. (The actual opening scene was probably Luke and Leia fighting eachother.) We know that at least one entire action scene with the Knights of Ren was cut, and probably another in the desert sequence. It’s very likely that the ‘parents’ reveal was heavily redone, given the ridiculous editing and ADR. You can go on like this.
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Jan 28, 2020 06:48
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The single best 12 or so seconds in the film is the part where they aren't driving the Millennium Falcon but instead a different ship and need to get it ready to fly.
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Jan 28, 2020 07:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The script isn’t the issue, as far as we know, because what we got very obviously isn’t what was on the page. As with all the Disney films, ROS was turbo-hosed in post-production. the big leak post allows us to get a really good idea of what they were altering in post, too.
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Jan 28, 2020 09:04
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The script isn’t the issue, as far as we know, because what we got very obviously isn’t what was on the page. As with all the Disney films, ROS was turbo-hosed in post-production. The knights of Ren are way funnier this way though.
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Jan 28, 2020 12:33
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I have to agree about the Knights of Ren. They're an aspect of Kylo's character, and when he becomes Ben Solo again he sheds them like a husk. Still should have had bikes.Kart Barfunkel posted:I know that the franchise’s toyetic qualities have been echoed for good reason, but it’s pretty incredible how they even fumbled that. Each movie had a cantina variant with a bunch of alien designs but they barely made any moves in the marketing. A few designs that got cut from TFA (the guy in the red suit, that Jakku guy with the wide brim hat) but those guys ended up warming pegs for months. For a company known for pumping out marketable characters, they did an amazingly terrible job at unique looking things to sell as toys. Really, the biggest things they’ve made were BB-8 and baby Yoda. They were so out of ideas that they tried to remake BB-8 again in DIO, who was already a remake of R2! I hate to post memes, but 
Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 15:29
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