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Squizzle
Apr 24, 2008




the other 2 are a mission impossible, and super 8

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CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Squizzle posted:

the other 2 are a mission impossible, and super 8

He produced Lost before any of those movies got directed by him.

That should have been the warning sign to maybe not let him touch stuff.

cams
Mar 28, 2003


jj abrams' best works are "armageddon" and "mission impossible 3"

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





CainFortea posted:

He produced Lost before any of those movies got directed by him.

That should have been the warning sign to maybe not let him touch stuff.

I wish he pulled his typical “start something with a whiz bang idea and then walk away from it and expect other people to fill in the all the mystery boxes he set up” thing like he did for all his TV shows on Star Wars. Dude was a master of handing poo poo off to other folks to finish because his ADD pushed him to start a new thing almost immediately. Too bad those folks all sucked too, but still.

JethroMcB
Jan 23, 2004

We're normal now.
We love your family.

HootTheOwl posted:

I'm starting to think that JJ Abrams isn't good.

Congrats to Warner for signing him to a quarter billion dollar 5 year deal, I presume to look at their back catalog and say "Yeah, sure, I can remake this but worse"

Agnostalgia
Dec 22, 2009

Squizzle posted:

jjabrams has now produced+directed the worst star trek movie, and written+produced+directed the worst star war

abrams directed insurrection AND attack of the clones?!

a.lo
Sep 12, 2009

Into Darkness ain't so bad.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





a.lo posted:

Into Darkness ain't so bad.

Into Darkness would have been fine if the villain was just some rando Section 31 guy instead of Khan and if they didn't do that stupid "Wrath of Khan, but in reverse" thing where Kirk gets killed by radiation and then brought back by magic science. That was dumb. Otherwise it was a passable Star Trek film.

Insurrection is also fine because it's a fun action movie dressed up like Star Trek and I haven't rewatched it since I was like 17 so whatever.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Isn't into darkness the one that made all starships useless by letting people teleport across sectors?

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
Abrams, if anything, is undefeated when it comes to totally ruining the mechanics of scale and space travel in a given sci fi universe.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
It's impressive how much he has internalized all the "emotional impact is more important than verisimilitude" stuff. Like it would be emotional if the heroes could watch the planet exploding, but the planet is on the whole other side of the galaxy. Well gently caress it, just have the explosion be visible in the sky

dudeness
Mar 5, 2010

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
Fallen Rib
Here's my pitch for Star Wars (the tenth star wars will be called Star Wars) by JJ Abrams

A mysterious lightning cloud opens above Tattooine, a massive ship exits and sits in orbit.
A young man, played by Chris Pine is tending a moisture farm, he notices the crazy stuff. A small ship seems to escape from all the hubbub and is heading straight for him AHHH.

Chris Pine runs (this is the first of many running sequences) away thinking it's going to crash. He hides behind some dumb space poo poo.

And hears nothing

He looks up, an old woman is standing there, holding a stupid staff.

"Luke Skywalker, my name is Rey, I've come from the future to save the universe and I need your help"

And also Obi Wan is played by Bones. I can't remember the actor's name at the moment. Zachary Quinto is Han Solo.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





I don't recall where he does it, but in one of his videos on something Dan Olson off-highhandedly refers to JJ Abrams once as Jajabarams and it's never left my brain and I hate him for it.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
The JJ films reall sucks at conveying the scale of the star wars galaxy in general. The PT did a better job of that, although they did use a lot of CGI to do it. Forgetting the EU, the prequels showed us that actually yes, the galaxy is a big place, with hundreds if not thousands of civilisations, big fleets, and a lot of territory to cover. The OT didn't cover that many locations, but it did hint at the galaxy being a fairly big place, with a lot going on. The concept that blowing up the galactic capital and a few adjacent important worlds wouldn't result in a massive backlash seems strange, even if the new republic government were wiped out in the process.

The Empire gaining control fairly quickly makes sense, as Palpatine used the clone war victory to garner massive amounts of support from the republic in order to impose authoritarian rule. He didn't totally dissolve the galactic senate until the Death Star was finished, because at that point, Tarkin was promising him that fear of having your planet popped would prevent anyone from trying to defect.

The First Order becoming suddenly dominant in the galaxy after wiping out everyone's galactic representatives and a couple ship yards/commercial/industrial centres or whatever those other worlds were makes far less sense. It is possible that by the time TFA happened, they had already brought a tonne of important/powerful worlds under their influence. Kuat for instance, and maybe some of the former Imperial strongholds that didn't immediately declare independence post-Endor would have jumped on board early, I can see that. But the story we're told in TFA is that the Snoke and the First Order came out of the unknown regions with a fleet of ships and just started loving with people, and that the New Republic is still the dominant government, and in fact they don't consider the first order to be an existential threat to freedom in the galaxy.

Then by the time TLJ happens, there's a handful of Resistance folks between them and total galactic domination.

The notion that the Rebel Alliance were able to get a significantly larger fleet together during the events of Rogue One and ROTJ than the Resistance were post-TFA baffles me. In the original EU, the destruction of Alderaan and the subsequent destruction of the first death star were the fulcrum for a number of planets defecting and providing ships and aid to the rebel alliance prior to Endor, either overtly or covertly. Which makes sense. Planetary governments would be bashing down the Resistance's door to join the war effort after the events of TFA. TLJ seems to have followed on directly from TFA, so I'd buy that it might take a little time to get things together. But by the time TROS started, which is presumably a few months later at the earliest, the resistance should have been much stronger - not necessarily equal to the first order, but not the handful of old rebel alliance tragics hanging around at the beginning of the film either.

TJ;DR: JJ's films make it seem like the Star Wars universe consists of a handful of planets, when the other movies, games, books, all the other material that existed in or out of the current canon, and hell, the presence of so many individual species of aliens indicate it's a huge place.

Edit: The worst part of all of these movies are the goddamn acronyms,

Don Dongington fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Jan 30, 2020

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Don Dongington posted:

TLJ seems to have followed on directly from TFA, so I'd buy that it might take a little time to get things together.

But the big takeaway from TLJ is that no one came when they called. Which kinda felt weird, since the last time the empire decided to start blowing up planets yea everyone was all aboard the rebel train.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice

CainFortea posted:

But the big takeaway from TLJ is that no one came when they called. Which kinda felt weird, since the last time the empire decided to start blowing up planets yea everyone was all aboard the rebel train.

Thanks, that's a far better TL;DR of my terrible rambling post than mine was.

Edit: But honestly, if TLJ did follow on pretty much directly from TFA - and Rey's arc seems to indicate that yes, it does - then perhaps nobody showing up quite yet wasn't too unreasonable. The concept that nobody would show up AT ALL is ridiculous, and if that is supposed to be the big point there, that's kind of dumb.

But the idea that, several weeks/months later, the rest of the galaxy is still sitting around thumb in rear end, is even dumber.

Don Dongington fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Jan 30, 2020

ungulateman
Apr 18, 2012

pretentious fuckwit who isn't half as literate or insightful or clever as he thinks he is

CainFortea posted:

But the big takeaway from TLJ is that no one came when they called. Which kinda felt weird, since the last time the empire decided to start blowing up planets yea everyone was all aboard the rebel train.

there's a three year time skip and by the time ESB starts the rebels are sitting around on an icy hellhole trying to not die and having a hard time of it

the (seemingly unintentional but i'm not sure how much that matters?) message of the sequels is that the galaxy is actually entirely populated by people who don't care

JethroMcB
Jan 23, 2004

We're normal now.
We love your family.

2house2fly posted:

It's impressive how much he has internalized all the "emotional impact is more important than verisimilitude" stuff. Like it would be emotional if the heroes could watch the planet exploding, but the planet is on the whole other side of the galaxy. Well gently caress it, just have the explosion be visible in the sky

haha I completely forget about this moment regularly, because it's dumb and I hate it. Alec Guinness giving a solemn pronunciation of doom out of nowhere was pretty good and helped sell the moment, how about if we have everybody run outside and pull a Spielbergian "look at the terrible thing, mouth agape" to really send it home.

it's not just that they can watch the new republic homeworld be blown up on the other side of the galaxy in realtime, it's that they see an explosion in the sky and immediately know/say out loud "That was the New Republic Homeworld, and they blew it up! Now nothing can stop them!"

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

ungulateman posted:

there's a three year time skip and by the time ESB starts the rebels are sitting around on an icy hellhole trying to not die and having a hard time of it

the (seemingly unintentional but i'm not sure how much that matters?) message of the sequels is that the galaxy is actually entirely populated by people who don't care

ANH has whichever imperial officer saying the rebel fleet is a threat to the imperial one, which makes the attack on the Death Star one of great importance, it alone is enough to turn the tide and the rebels are capable of overthrowing the empire otherwise.

When it came time to write a sequel obviously having the good guys win before it starts doesn't leave a lot to work with, so they retcon'd them to being plucky underdogs.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

CainFortea posted:

But the big takeaway from TLJ is that no one came when they called. Which kinda felt weird, since the last time the empire decided to start blowing up planets yea everyone was all aboard the rebel train.

The difference is that the Empire targeted Alderaan to demonstrate their power, but then their weapon got destroyed, while in the ST the First Order targets the seat of power and decapitates the whole Republic; their weapon got destroyed as well but the Republic government is still wiped out and the First Order is taking over

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


2house2fly posted:

The difference is that the Empire targeted Alderaan to demonstrate their power, but then their weapon got destroyed, while in the ST the First Order targets the seat of power and decapitates the whole Republic; their weapon got destroyed as well but the Republic government is still wiped out and the First Order is taking over

The planets who joined the rebellion broke away from the seat of their government power specifically to rebel.

Asgerd
May 6, 2012

I worked up a powerful loneliness in my massive bed, in the massive dark.
Grimey Drawer

cams posted:

i dunno most redditmen i've seen were pretty pleased with tros because it dumpstered the last jedi and tied even MORE stuff to the original trilogy


People keep saying this, but a quick look at r/saltierthancrait tells me that redditmen who hated tlj hate tros too. That movie didn't please anybody.

Saint Drogo
Dec 26, 2011

2house2fly posted:

It's impressive how much he has internalized all the "emotional impact is more important than verisimilitude" stuff. Like it would be emotional if the heroes could watch the planet exploding, but the planet is on the whole other side of the galaxy. Well gently caress it, just have the explosion be visible in the sky
:agreed: him & his ilk have somehow stretched basic writing advice into an excuse to be Michael Bay, and even had people convinced this was good for a while.

A Gnarlacious Bro
Apr 25, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
People called his lovely looking movies "slick" a lot

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

I enjoyed the first Star trek at the time, but the only star trek I've ever watched was TOS and the wrath of Khan.

TremorX
Jan 19, 2001

All Hail Big Hairy Mike

Don Dongington posted:

Abrams, if anything, is undefeated when it comes to totally ruining the mechanics of scale and space travel in a given sci fi universe.

THIS. Also SPACE SHIPS ARE NOT SUBMARINES

Boz0r
Sep 7, 2006
The Rocketship in action.
Can someone list all the steps that needed to succeed for Palpatine's plan to come to fruition?

cams
Mar 28, 2003


sure but what was the plan again

Queen-Of-Hearts
Mar 17, 2009

"I want to break your heart💔 and give you mine🫀"




Palpatine's plan:

Step 1: Wait for JJ to shine his lens flare on this series once more.
Step 2: Oh we're doing this? Whatever, just roll the camera i guess.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
It was something like:

-Make Rey feel hunted and under pressure by trying to kill her, this will make her vulnerable to the dark side and she'll unleash her full power to protect herself
-When Rey gets to Exogol, persuade her to kill the Emperor so that through some dark side thing his soul will enter her body, so he'll be young and strong again
-Now Kylo is here and it turns out they have some kind of bond?
-Oh wow you can just drain their life force directly from the bond
-This is way better

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!
Oven Wrangler
Step 1: Get thrown down a pit
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Unlimited Power

JethroMcB
Jan 23, 2004

We're normal now.
We love your family.
Step 1: Proceed as I have foreseen
Step 2: Proceed as I have foreseen
Step 3: Proceed as I have foreseen

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Wait his plan in which trilogy

Queen-Of-Hearts
Mar 17, 2009

"I want to break your heart💔 and give you mine🫀"




zoux posted:

Wait his plan in which trilogy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvIrdg-epwA&t=15s

Punished Chuck
Dec 27, 2010

JethroMcB posted:

Step 1: Proceed as I have foreseen
Step 2: Proceed as I have foreseen
Step 3: Proceed as I have foreseen

Punished Chuck
Dec 27, 2010

One thing that struck me during the movie is that if he hadn’t told her that he wanted her to kill him, she probably would have done it like immediately. Just zap her with a little bit of lightning to provoke her and boom you win

Punished Chuck
Dec 27, 2010

It would have made more sense if Kylo knew the plan and showed up to dump the exposition and stop her just as she was raising her blade to kill Palps

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin
She also kills him anyways, so ritual complete, I guess.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


HootTheOwl posted:

She also kills him anyways, so ritual complete, I guess.

Eagerly awaiting Star Wars: Palps back again anyway

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Gulping Again
Mar 10, 2007

2house2fly posted:

It was something like:

-Make Rey feel hunted and under pressure by trying to kill her, this will make her vulnerable to the dark side and she'll unleash her full power to protect herself
-When Rey gets to Exogol, persuade her to kill the Emperor so that through some dark side thing his soul will enter her body, so he'll be young and strong again
-Now Kylo is here and it turns out they have some kind of bond?
-Oh wow you can just drain their life force directly from the bond
-This is way better

it would have been more fun if it had gone all the way and un-hosed up his face to drive home how much better this worked out for him

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