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Raenir Salazar posted:It matters for China though because only they can ostensibly use conventional ICBMs in a conflict without prompting a response. Vs who?
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Jan 29, 2020 21:06
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Using a conventional ICBM would be so loving dumb on so many levels
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Jan 29, 2020 21:06
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Top Hats Monthly posted:Using a conventional ICBM would be so loving dumb on so many levels "We pinky swear the dozens of ICBMs flying towards your country are totally conventional"
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Jan 29, 2020 21:08
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zoux posted:Vs who? I was trying to get this in before your edit  
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Jan 29, 2020 21:09
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zoux posted:Vs who? Presumably the United States to keep their carrier battlegroups at arms reach. Top Hats Monthly posted:Using a conventional ICBM would be so loving dumb on so many levels It's a strategy the PLA has been committing its entire force structure around for years now, they seem pretty confident it is in fact not dumb, but probably actually extremely effective at blunting American force projection in their backyard.
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Jan 29, 2020 21:09
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hobbesmaster posted:I was trying to get this in before your edit Well I was being both cheeky and didn't see the "unconventional" ICBM. I dunno if Israel even has ICBMs or just medium to long range stuff, but hypothetically if Israel decided to nuke Iran, are there treaty alliances that would demand a nuclear response
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Jan 29, 2020 21:11
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The DF-31/41 are not intended to be used with conventional warheads. Chinese policy to employ them only in retaliation; any situation in which they're launched will be treated like a full blown nuclear strike.
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Jan 29, 2020 21:13
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bewbies posted:The DF-31/41 are not intended to be used with conventional warheads. Chinese policy to employ them only in retaliation; any situation in which they're launched will be treated like a full blown nuclear strike. I appear to be thinking of the DF-21D (CSS-5 Mod-4) Anti-ship ballistic missile.
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Jan 29, 2020 21:16
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zoux posted:What other countries have no-first-use policies besides China India officially stated a no-first-use policy in 1998, but has ambiguously abandoned-it-but-maybe-not last year.
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Jan 29, 2020 22:48
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Pontius Pilate posted:Presumably from his handler and he was motivated by ideological reasons. If the tweet/reddit are real, which they probably aren’t, and giving medals to people permanently in the US seems much too sloppy for the KGB besides. It would indeed be sloppy, but who knows. Both the CIA and the KGB in retrospect turned out to be less universally competent than one might think. But I also vaguely reading some biography of a US dude who turned KGB and earned medals from his handlers. The physical medals were held for him in Moscow pending his purported eventual move there.
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Jan 29, 2020 23:49
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Captain von Trapp posted:It would indeed be sloppy, but who knows. Both the CIA and the KGB in retrospect turned out to be less universally competent than one might think. John Le Carre posted:“He would say therefore that from ’56 on, he was a committed, full-time Soviet mole with no holds barred. In 1961 he formally received Soviet citizenship, and over the next ten years two Soviet medals—quaintly, he would not say which, though he insisted that they were “top stuff.”
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Jan 30, 2020 00:03
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Holy poo poo did you guys know USS Houston killed a guy while they were filming for Hunt for Red October? It snagged a tow cable in passing and sank a tugboat attached to a barge.
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jan 30, 2020 |
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Jan 30, 2020 01:32
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While we're on the subject of nuclear strikes, I've got a question that I guess we can really only speculate about. I work for a major goldmine in Outback Australia. The nearest town is 35km away and has a population of around 1200. Would we be a target? If the SIOP at its nuttiest was putting half a dozen warheads on an isolated bridge in Siberia, it seems like permanently denying the resource and infrastructure we have here to the enemy would make sense.
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Jan 30, 2020 01:39
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Memento posted:While we're on the subject of nuclear strikes, I've got a question that I guess we can really only speculate about. I work for a major goldmine in Outback Australia. The nearest town is 35km away and has a population of around 1200. Probably not. Both US and USSR did counterforce targeting; that bridge was on some potential military reinforcement path. Countervalue strikes against economic targets like gold mines were generally not a priority, from what I’ve read?
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Jan 30, 2020 02:05
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Arglebargle III posted:Holy poo poo did you guys know USS Houston killed a guy while they were filming for Hunt for Red October? It snagged a tow cable in passing and sank a tugboat attached to a barge. My god what a cursed boat Wikipedia posted:The error was realized when the first call of "flooding in crews mess" was made over the 1 MC.
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Jan 30, 2020 02:09
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Big Yikes
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Jan 30, 2020 02:59
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Wow. This is like the USS Cowpens, but with "turning off vital alarms" and "dangerous flooding" instead of "personnel based gypsy curse"
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Jan 30, 2020 03:11
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My God what a cursed boat, She steams at full ahead the mess is flooding now My God what a cursed boat!
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Jan 30, 2020 03:20
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Raenir Salazar posted:I appear to be thinking of the DF-21D (CSS-5 Mod-4) Anti-ship ballistic missile. DF-21 and DF-26 are not ICBMs. And in their ASBM role they have been emphatically called by the Chinese to not possess nuclear warheads. That is done on purpose.
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Jan 30, 2020 05:00
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Pontius Pilate posted:Presumably from his handler and he was motivated by ideological reasons. If the tweet/reddit are real, which they probably aren’t, and giving medals to people permanently in the US seems much too sloppy for the KGB besides. They gave a medal to one of their British spies after they retired from their day job. It's not totally unknown. It's honestly probably less noticeable than large cash deposits.
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Jan 30, 2020 05:09
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Memento posted:While we're on the subject of nuclear strikes, I've got a question that I guess we can really only speculate about. I work for a major goldmine in Outback Australia. The nearest town is 35km away and has a population of around 1200. quoting for siop
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Jan 30, 2020 08:15
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We don’t and probably never will know Soviet nuclear warplans. There is probably always a contingency for nuking economic targets that aren’t cities, electrical, or critical infrastructure. In the same vein I’ve read stories that New Zealand thought that making themselves nuclear free would spare them Soviet ICBMs
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Jan 30, 2020 08:22
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Top Hats Monthly posted:We don’t and probably never will know Soviet nuclear warplans. There is probably always a contingency for nuking economic targets that aren’t cities, electrical, or critical infrastructure. In the same vein I’ve read stories that New Zealand thought that making themselves nuclear free would spare them Soviet ICBMs Kiwis stopped reading On the Beach halfway through or something and held a (mostly) collective belief that they’d be (mostly) spared from nuclear armageddon. A major paper, in the 80’s I think, ran an article to the affect of “no we’d still be hosed, and not because of Shute’s radiation, but because we depend so heavily on imports that there’d be immediate famine. And our agriculture is also dependent on things like petrol imports so that’d collapse and would revert to, like, early modern agriculture so more famine. And maybe some radiation too.” mostly cobbled together from vague memories and my boyfriend’s kiwidad so this could all be false idk
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Jan 30, 2020 09:17
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zoux posted:Well I was being both cheeky and didn't see the "unconventional" ICBM. I dunno if Israel even has ICBMs or just medium to long range stuff, but hypothetically if Israel decided to nuke Iran, are there treaty alliances that would demand a nuclear response Like what, Saudia Arabia would nuke more of Iran?
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Jan 30, 2020 09:21
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zoux posted:Vs who?
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Jan 30, 2020 10:23
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Groda posted:Like what, Saudia Arabia would nuke more of Iran? No like Russia or uh Pakistan? would nuke Israel and please tell me the Saudis don't have nukes
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Jan 30, 2020 15:34
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evil_bunnY posted:CVBG's
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Jan 30, 2020 15:54
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zoux posted:No like Russia or uh Pakistan? would nuke Israel and please tell me the Saudis don't have nukes If anyone has "sell me a nuke" money, it's the house of Saud.
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Jan 30, 2020 15:58
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FMguru posted:I saw the Talking Heads play there, that was a great show. I appear to be thinking of Max's Kansas City.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:06
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"Depth excursion" is a nice euphemism
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Jan 30, 2020 16:20
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Pontius Pilate posted:Kiwis stopped reading On the Beach halfway through or something and held a (mostly) collective belief that they’d be (mostly) spared from nuclear armageddon. A major paper, in the 80’s I think, ran an article to the affect of “no we’d still be hosed, and not because of Shute’s radiation, but because we depend so heavily on imports that there’d be immediate famine. And our agriculture is also dependent on things like petrol imports so that’d collapse and would revert to, like, early modern agriculture so more famine. And maybe some radiation too.” I have no idea about the specific example of New Zealand, but food security and reliance on imports is a big deal for a ton of countries across the world. It's one of the big things that would gently caress a ton of people up if there was ever a disaster (natural or man made) that impacted just one of the big net-exporters badly enough that they had to conserve resources for themselves. To put this into perspective: the shift towards making corn into gas in the US caused noticeable spikes in the price of food in a lot of other countries, and some major problems in countries that extensively subsidize grains for their poor. I forget the details, but IIRC the last time this came up in a big way was when a drought cut back on the US/Canadian corn crop pretty heavily during Obama's administration and there was pressure to relax the ethanol fuel mandates because rising corn prices were loving up a lot of things abroad.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:25
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zoux posted:No like Russia or uh Pakistan? would nuke Israel and please tell me the Saudis don't have nukes Saudi Arabia has said they will obtain nuclear weapons if Iran does so.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:33
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glynnenstein posted:Saudi Arabia has said they will obtain nuclear weapons if Iran does so. I assume that means buy them from Pakistan. I recall reading somewhere that overtures had been made.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:49
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Yes, pretty much. Which is a pretty big reason for most countries NOT wanting Iran to have nukes in the first place. If Iran has them, S.Arabia will get them and then Turkey will want some of those too.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:52
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And it is 2020. Nukes are a 1940s technology. It's a miracle the NPT regime has worked as well as it has.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:53
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Well, assassinating the odd scientist..or twelve tends to help keeping things somewhat controlled. With a sprinkle of air strikes, for good measure.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:56
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Speaking of nuclear non-proliferation, did you know China has a conventional boomer? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing-class_submarine It's official purpose is very sensible: it is a test submarine, for trying out new technology. It's just a coincidence that this sort of shorty boomer is exactly like what DPRK is building or Pakistan could operate if they wanted deterrence patrols.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:59
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Nebakenezzer posted:Speaking of nuclear non-proliferation, did you know China has a conventional boomer? Ok, boomer.
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Jan 30, 2020 17:00
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There is a whole lot going on. https://twitter.com/oriana0214/status/1222911900729729026?s=21
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Jan 30, 2020 17:02
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zoux posted:No like Russia or uh Pakistan? would nuke Israel and please tell me the Saudis don't have nukes Neither Russia nor Pakistan would go on any military adventure on behalf of Iran. There's no alliance between these countries, and no friendship either. Iran does not have any ally that are stronger than itself. You can sorta count Assad Syria, perhaps Iraq, and non-state organization like Hezbollah in Lebanon or Hamas in Gaza. None of them have nukes, or are in any position to come to the rescue of Iran, the most they could do could be some harassment on the side but if Iran is hosed with nukes, why even bother attempting to intervene, it's not like they could make a difference.
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Jan 30, 2020 18:06
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