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I hate reducing the show to something didactic, because it’s obviously a lot more than that, but what kind of philosophy 101 course could end with “you’re in heaven forever and it loving owns and you never have to face any sort of uncertainty again.” The door is a necessary metaphor. As Michael’s ending emphasizes, the thing that makes life important and vital is the not knowing part, and the big thing we don’t know is what happens after. The show was clearly interested in how to be a better person, and the door and finale sent a really clear message: live a full life surrounded by the people you love doing the things you Iove, and help others do the same. If you do that, you’ll be ready to face the unknown when the time comes.
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Feb 1, 2020 14:59
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Taear posted:It's the afterlife, they're not in literal Athens. Why can't they be in literal past Athens? They could have been in literal past Athens, but the show has a budget.
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Feb 1, 2020 15:01
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As what was said in a previous episode, you can visit any place in any time you like. Doesn't mean that the one true timeline of Earth will be changed, think of it as a sort of hologram type situation. Also, they didn't go to past Athens because that wasn't in the show's budget. Pay attention, people. Taear posted:It's the afterlife, they're not in literal Athens. Why can't they be in literal past Athens? How can a person be this obtuse?
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Feb 1, 2020 15:51
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John F Bennett posted:As what was said in a previous episode, you can visit any place in any time you like. Doesn't mean that the one true timeline of Earth will be changed, think of it as a sort of hologram type situation. There's a difference between "it's not possible to show it because it's too expensive" and "Chidi specifically says stuff to her about how it worked in the past which implies that they haven't ever been there". I'm not being obtuse, I'm just disappointed that their afterlife is poo poo.
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Feb 1, 2020 15:55
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Anyone interested in the idea of afterlife becoming tedious or anything like that might want to check out "The Makropulos case" by Bernard Williams (PDF) which was one of the works written on the chalkboard at the beginning of the episode. It's one of the classic philosophical works on the topic of whether immorality would be great or whether you'd eventually want to, say, walk through the door.
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Feb 1, 2020 15:56
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WSAENOTSOCK posted:Your implication that seeking treatment for debilitating problems is somehow killing the real me was escalated plenty, pal. I explicitly didn't say that, you're being crazy. E: why the gently caress would I say that in the first place? I myself medicate for ADHD, depression and anxiety. Arist fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Feb 1, 2020 |
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Feb 1, 2020 16:31
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I kinda feel like I should trust the moral philosophers who consulted on the show to have had enough input on the finale to make it consistent? I certainly haven't read any philosophy, nor will I in all probability.
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Feb 1, 2020 16:34
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Taear posted:There's a difference between "it's not possible to show it because it's too expensive" and "Chidi specifically says stuff to her about how it worked in the past which implies that they haven't ever been there". elanor, being elanor, can't help but imagine Buff Plato because she likes hot muscle dudes and probably wasn't paying too much attention if and when she visited past athens with chidi it is a joke, don't overthink the ramifications that a one liner has on how the made up afterlife works
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Feb 1, 2020 16:39
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Watching all of Forever between last week's episode and the finale might have been a mistake. Different beasts and all that, but Maya Rudolph is compelling as gently caress as June, and seeing her as The Judge again afterwards felt, for lack of a better word, kind of blasphemous.
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Feb 1, 2020 17:01
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Inkspot posted:Watching all of Forever between last week's episode and the finale might have been a mistake. Different beasts and all that, but Maya Rudolph is compelling as gently caress as June, and seeing her as The Judge again afterwards felt, for lack of a better word, kind of blasphemous. That was a good show, and I'm sad it didn't get a second season at least.
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Feb 1, 2020 17:05
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ApplesandOranges posted:One thing that I wasn't sure about : does Michael remember the parts of the afterlife? There's some ambiguity that suggests he could have (the guitar scene, Michael Realman, etc.) but the whole idea seems to be that he shouldn't have the intention of getting into the Good Place influencing his moral decisions, and that it's maybe the little conscience lights that might nudge him in certain ways (like calling his dog Jason). He must. He's speaking directly to Eleanor at the end.
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Feb 1, 2020 17:10
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The Lord Bude posted:That was a good show, and I'm sad it didn't get a second season at least. I don't know if it needs one. Came to similar conclusions about immortality as The Good Place, without the controversy of The Door, in a sixth or seventh of the time.
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Feb 1, 2020 17:12
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Inkspot posted:Watching all of Forever between last week's episode and the finale might have been a mistake. Different beasts and all that, but Maya Rudolph is compelling as gently caress as June, and seeing her as The Judge again afterwards felt, for lack of a better word, kind of blasphemous. Yeah, tbh she overacts here as if she’s still on SNL playing to the cheap seats. Drags down every scene she’s in on TGP. It’s really weird because as you say she’s good elsewhere.
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Feb 1, 2020 17:32
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Agronox posted:Yeah, tbh she overacts here as if she’s still on SNL playing to the cheap seats. Drags down every scene she’s in on TGP. It’s really weird because as you say she’s good elsewhere. For a contrary opinion, I think her scenes on TGP are great.
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Feb 1, 2020 17:33
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silvergoose posted:For a contrary opinion, I think her scenes on TGP are great. I'm with this guy, love Maya in TGP.
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Feb 1, 2020 17:48
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Jen's trip and description of visiting Earth as a mortal is the funniest moment of The Good Place. “I guess I’m black, and they do not like black ladies down there.”
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Feb 1, 2020 17:56
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To me the door was like when you finish reading a great book: you are happy that you read it but also sad that it's over. You may go back an re-read it but you can only do that so many times. Eventually you close the book and hand it over to somebody else so they too can enjoy the experience.
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Feb 1, 2020 17:58
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Taear posted:There's a difference between "it's not possible to show it because it's too expensive" and "Chidi specifically says stuff to her about how it worked in the past which implies that they haven't ever been there". When Eleanor asks Janet to set it up, Janet explicitly asks whether she wants it to be “restored to its former glory,” and Eleanor chooses to visit it as it was when Chidi first visited during his real life. Also, they explicitly HAD been there together before — Eleanor asks Chidi to explain things again because she wasn’t really listening the last time. Like, yes, it’s still a holodeck turned up to 11 — whichever version they visit is just a perfect recreation, not the real thing — but visiting the past-version was very obviously an option.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:00
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What I mainly got out of the finale is that it is better to choose oblivion than to read anything by Dan Brown. The implications of the finale are that the Good Place will eventually be empty after the sun swallows the earth to end any more human creation, and after awhile all humans in the Good Place lose their purpose (I'm sorry, I mean "feel fully fulfilled") and go through the door. And there's only so many demons you need in the Bad Place to keep testing Brent, and the Judge will eventually run out of podcasts to listen to -- because there's no more humans to make them. I supposed it is for the best due to the eventual heat death of the universe, but it was a bit heavy for my poor human brain to comprehend.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:05
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jumba posted:What I mainly got out of the finale is that it is better to choose oblivion than to read anything by Dan Brown. I re-read Isaac Asimov's "The Last Question" after the Good Place finale and thought how fun it would be if after the credits the universe is dark and Janet is the last being that hasn't left. She finds the Judge's reset button and says, "Let's get some light in here." *Click*
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Feb 1, 2020 18:19
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escalator dropdown posted:When Eleanor asks Janet to set it up, Janet explicitly asks whether she wants it to be “restored to its former glory,” and Eleanor chooses to visit it as it was when Chidi first visited during his real life. Also, they explicitly HAD been there together before — Eleanor asks Chidi to explain things again because she wasn’t really listening the last time. She asks him what stuff was used for in the past and he explains it to her because she hasn't seen it being used that way in the past. He sits at a chair and says he went to each one because maybe Sartre had sat at it! Even though now, he could know for sure. I dunno, it's like the Jeremy Bearimy thing to me - I feel like the good place could have made it so the afterlife exists outside and alongside time and that would have made a shitload more sense (and been a more exciting concept) than what they actually did do. That the afterlife is kinda like the wormhole aliens instead of just "Eh whatever" like it was.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:26
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Humans die, then go through a system of refinement and improvement until they have become the best version of themselves. Then go to a holiday resort for a few thousands years. Then choose to fade into nothingness. What is the point of the afterlife at all? Why not just have humans fade into nothingness when they die? Why not start with the door? Who does all the loving about in the middle actually help?
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Feb 1, 2020 18:29
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Tequila25 posted:I re-read Isaac Asimov's "The Last Question" after the Good Place finale and thought how fun it would be if after the credits the universe is dark and Janet is the last being that hasn't left. She finds the Judge's reset button and says, "Let's get some light in here." *Click* I like that! That's my Good Place headcanon now.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:38
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I don’t understand what the big deal is, the oldest human ever lived to be 122, is it really so weird to think that maybe the human psyche might start to get bored or be unable to handle living for thousands or even millions of years?
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Feb 1, 2020 18:42
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Oasx posted:I don’t understand what the big deal is, the oldest human ever lived to be 122, is it really so weird to think that maybe the human psyche might start to get bored or be unable to handle living for thousands or even millions of years? Well Michael and etc seemed fine for billions of years. Until then Michael wasn't, I guess.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:45
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Undead Hippo posted:What is the point of the afterlife at all? Why not just have humans fade into nothingness when they die? Why not start with the door? Who does all the loving about in the middle actually help? To create a sitcom allegory for life.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:47
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Undead Hippo posted:Humans die, then go through a system of refinement and improvement until they have become the best version of themselves. Then go to a holiday resort for a few thousands years. Then choose to fade into nothingness. Because maybe a hundred (or less, or maybe a little more) years isn't long enough to really experience reality, but eternity is too long? That's what I interpreted it as, anyway.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:49
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Man, the Judge has been around since/until forever and seems satisfied with watching TV and listening to new podcasts in perpetuity.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:49
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She was also "designed" to be eternal with a specific purpose. Remember the lesson of Bowerick Wowbagger
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Feb 1, 2020 18:54
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I can't remember; was Gen made up of hydrogen or was she just named after it?
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Feb 1, 2020 18:55
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Android Blues posted:Man, the Judge has been around since/until forever and seems satisfied with watching TV and listening to new podcasts in perpetuity. The Judge's pop culture obsession isn't funny, and brings up questions about how pop culture can keep her entertained for so long and why she's so eager to erase all existence. Undead Hippo posted:What is the point of the afterlife at all? Why not just have humans fade into nothingness when they die? Why not start with the door? Who does all the loving about in the middle actually help? Oh man, no one tell him about the actual reality we all live in.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:56
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silvergoose posted:I can't remember; was Gen made up of hydrogen or was she just named after it? It was the only other thing that existed when she came into being.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:01
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Taear posted:Well Michael and etc seemed fine for billions of years. Literally not a human.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:36
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Even the butt spiders get bored after a while
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Feb 1, 2020 19:42
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jumba posted:What I mainly got out of the finale is that it is better to choose oblivion than to read anything by Dan Brown. I burst out laughing at this because the way Chidi said that reminded me of that dumb garbage day meme.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:59
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mcbexx posted:Literally not a human. Well he got bored now, why is that different?
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Feb 1, 2020 20:09
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It is not a few thousand years, it is a few thousand Bearimys which is essentially infinite time. This is the biggest part here, the length of time these characters are experiencing. There is no way to wrap your head around the lengths of time being experienced.
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Feb 1, 2020 20:45
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Undead Hippo posted:Humans die, then go through a system of refinement and improvement until they have become the best version of themselves. Then go to a holiday resort for a few thousands years. Then choose to fade into nothingness. This is pretty blatantly demonstrated in-show. Humanity improves over time and that includes improving in the afterlife. Everyone in the afterlife discovers new things, explores new experiences, and grows in doing so. They remold themselves time and time again over eternities until they reach their apothesis. When they chose to go through the door and move on to whatever is next, they don't disappear. What they are returns to the universe and in doing so adds something to the universe. Eleanor (and presumably Chidi and Jason) went through the door and became a part of the universe and in doing so the refinement they went through also did. Eleanor may not exist as Eleanor anymore but what she was became something that makes the world better and we have no clear idea of what exists beyond that for the people who went through the door. Eternity, as a concept, is difficult for human minds to envision. Eternity is beyond what our minds can reasonably comprehend. Having an eternity to experience everything sounds amazing but eventually... you can't anymore. You can see all of human history, you can visit every alien planet, you can eat every food, pet every dog, read every book and then do it all over again. And then you still have an eternity to go. After a certain point the human mind will run out of things to do and ways to improve. (And honestly a lot of things you might think of as exciting would lose their interest once they are easy and without struggle.) The door represents something new, something different, something beyond. Maybe it is rest and peace. Maybe it is becoming something more, evolving to something beyond humanity. Maybe you become a god. Who knows? That isn't the important part. The important part is that you, as a person, have reached apothesis and are choosing to face the great unknown as an adventure, not a fear.
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Feb 1, 2020 20:50
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Taear posted:Well he got bored now, why is that different? He has been around a lot longer than the humans. Also he seems obsessed with humanity in general, it is likely that his desire to move on is partly fueled by wanting to emulate his human friends.
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Feb 1, 2020 20:50
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VideoGames posted:It is not a few thousand years, it is a few thousand Bearimys which is essentially infinite time. Bearimy is silly because we know time is demonstrably passing as new people come to the afterlife and it's not just "everyone is here because time doesn't properly exist".
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Feb 1, 2020 20:55
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