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there's not much stopping them from just making half the guys basically nude while fighting evil so i wouldn't be surprised if it went that route
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Feb 6, 2020 21:53
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You can easily make it obvious that they’re nude but not actually show the nudity
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Feb 6, 2020 21:54
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Spek posted:I have a very vague memory of reading an interview with Jordan once where he said something along the lines of intending to make the entire book be everyone's reaction to the climactic and world changing event at the end of Winters Heart but realized like 1/2 to 3/4ths of the way through that it wasn't working and rather than rewriting it just kinda pushed through and finished it. Which is I guess better than George RR Martin's strategy of realizing his 5 year gap wasn't working and just imploding. I always understood the point to also be a global event that would sync up everyone's timelines, they'd gotten off kilter. Was it Winter's Heart where Tam shows up with Rand and fans assumed he had to be a fake because he was with Perrin at the same time?
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Feb 6, 2020 21:54
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I went to a book signing in NYC when CoT came out but I unfortunately don't have the book anymore after a few moves. It was just too much to keep all of them in the small apartments I lived in but maybe one day I can get a full hardback collection again, with all of the awesome Darrell K Sweet covers.
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Feb 6, 2020 21:58
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I had a few hard covers and man those things were thicc.
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Feb 6, 2020 23:38
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Spek posted:I have a very vague memory of reading an interview with Jordan once where he said something along the lines of intending to make the entire book be everyone's reaction to the climactic and world changing event at the end of Winters Heart but realized like 1/2 to 3/4ths of the way through that it wasn't working and rather than rewriting it just kinda pushed through and finished it. Which is I guess better than George RR Martin's strategy of realizing his 5 year gap wasn't working and just imploding. I agree with what you're suggesting but I do think there were some really good scenes of Aes Sedai that were hanging out with various character not with Rand stopping dead mid conversation to scream at the massive power they were feeling 300 miles away. Those bits were rad as hell Edit: You know actually thinking about it, maybe that didn't even happen in the book and some character (Perrin maybe) was recalling it after the fact? It's been a long time since I read these books. The Neal! fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 23:54
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Oh those definitely happened. "We have to go the other way. No really. NO REALLY HOLY gently caress THERE'S LIKE TEN BILLION FORSAKEN THAT WAY."
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Feb 7, 2020 00:57
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silvergoose posted:Oh those definitely happened. Yeah! That bit was cool 
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Feb 7, 2020 01:32
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Oh yeah those were some great scenes and I hope the show gets that far. I could see any number of neat ways to handle that. A montage of channelers we've known from around the continent each doing their own version of just suddenly staring off into the distance in awe starting the episode after it happens could be great. But it should have followed up with them receiving the news of what actually went down a week or two after. Rand had no issue getting his message out about the amnesty on men who could channel so I'll never understand why he didn't do the same after the events of Winter's Heart.
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Feb 7, 2020 01:35
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Given how people reacted when they were told, broadcasting it might have caused everyone to decide that the Dragon had already lost his mind completely and all was lost.
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Feb 7, 2020 01:38
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Spek posted:Oh yeah those were some great scenes and I hope the show gets that far. I could see any number of neat ways to handle that. A montage of channelers we've known from around the continent each doing their own version of just suddenly staring off into the distance in awe starting the episode after it happens could be great. I don't remember precisely but wasn't Rand unconscious right after (like days maybe?) and then he decided to lie real low for awhile? Maybe he didn't want people tracing the message back to where he was or some other similar convenient plot decision?
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Feb 7, 2020 02:31
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Nynaeve was rendered unconscious by the ordeal but Rand was not iirc. He was very drained and did indeed go into hiding for a few days or maybe weeks to recover. It's certainly possible to come up with excuses for why he or his entourage didn't notify the world what was up but it's such a seemingly sensible course of action that if one of those excuses were the case the book should have brought it up and I'm like 99% sure it does not.
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Feb 7, 2020 02:41
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I got the impression that Rand's madness really got kicked into high gear by, well, acting as a conduit for the entire taint. He starts to act really erratically from that point onwards. Well, like even more erratically. No idea why Cadsuane didn't though.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:04
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Torrannor posted:I started another reread (because I'm insane), and with the television show in mind, I noticed a lot more instances of female nudity. You not only have the ostensibly equal opportunity occasions like sweat tents (that are only ever seen from the perspective of Egwene with the Wise Ones and sometimes Moiraine or Berelain) and gai'shain shortly after capture (where the only named gai'shain we see are Faile, Maighdin, Alliandre, Bain and Chiad), but basically every channeling organization induction is done in the nude. The Accepted test for example, or the first trial at Rhuidean for Wise One apprentices. Also, choosing an Amyrlin was supposed to be done "clothed in the Light", i.e. nude, but the modern Aes Sedai "merely" go topless during it. There's at least once instance in I think book 5 where Mat fights completely nude, and having seen who they cast for Mat I'm completely down with that. There still seems to be a more of a male nudity vs female nudity taboo in shows that have nudity. It's highly discriminatory and I hope we can get more male nudity on tv. Ungratek posted:You can easily make it obvious that they’re nude but not actually show the nudity Where's the fun in that?
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Feb 7, 2020 03:05
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I mean, I'm ok with not seeing dongs, but that's just my personal preference. If dongs are what people want, so be it.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:09
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If you're gonna enjoy the tits you have to also enjoy the dongs. More of everything IMO. This Ain't The Wheel of Time XXX.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:22
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Uh no I don't
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Feb 7, 2020 03:31
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Something that occurred to me when reading and later noticing that imbalance in nude scenes is that I feel like (and appreciate) that none of them really feel sexualized within the context of the story. It's either an old ritual that moderns are kind of uncomfortable with (Aes Sedai rites), a social custom that's not unlike some places in our world (Aiel; thinking of northern European countries with commonplace saunas, also Japan's public bathhouses), or some mixture of the two (Rhuidean). The one time I remember it being distinctly sexual was that the calling for Elayne's rebirthing ceremony was deliberately done when she was meeting with Taim (I think?), who took the opportunity for ogling, as a test of whether Elayne considered the ritual more important than her modesty/privacy/etc. fake edit: Forgot about the Sea Folk all going topless. Like: Yeah, that imbalance is absolutely there and was absolutely because the author was a hetero dude who didn't particularly feel like writing about naked men and I think said as much when he was called out on it. He also started including more references to Cadsuane complaining about how often she'd seen Rand's bare rear end. What I mean at the start is just that the novels never feel like they're approaching being erotica, because the nude scenes are almost never erotic to the characters whose perspectives we share. This can't really work for a screen adaptation, because the camera's perspective is very different from a character's perspective, so something oughta be done. Comrade Blyatlov posted:If dongs are what people want, so be it.  I feel like it might be easier to make the show feature salacious depictions of men than to have it not feature salacious depictions of women.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:44
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Bruceski posted:I always understood the point to also be a global event that would sync up everyone's timelines, they'd gotten off kilter. Was it Winter's Heart where Tam shows up with Rand and fans assumed he had to be a fake because he was with Perrin at the same time? I think it was Knife of Dreams? That moment really made me wonder if I'd zoned out and missed something. Tam being there and mentioning Morgase being alive when as far as I could remember, nobody had figured that part out yet, was really weird.
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Feb 7, 2020 12:50
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I got the impression that Rand's madness really got kicked into high gear by, well, acting as a conduit for the entire taint. He starts to act really erratically from that point onwards. Well, like even more erratically. Wasn't there a scene with an Aes Sedai (maybe Cadsuane?) trying to determine if the taint was really gone by channeling saidin through an Ashaman? And she wasn't entirely convinced the taint was gone because she never channeled saidin when the taint was there and saidin feels completely alien to her? I assume that's why no Aes Sedai with Rand ever sent out any messengers about it, because they weren't convinced it worked and had no way of determining it for themselves.
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Feb 7, 2020 13:10
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EvilTaytoMan posted:Wasn't there a scene with an Aes Sedai (maybe Cadsuane?) trying to determine if the taint was really gone by channeling saidin through an Ashaman? And she wasn't entirely convinced the taint was gone because she never channeled saidin when the taint was there and saidin feels completely alien to her? I assume that's why no Aes Sedai with Rand ever sent out any messengers about it, because they weren't convinced it worked and had no way of determining it for themselves. Yeah, Rand told the Ashamen and his pet aes sedai told the other aes sedai but basically nobody believed them. Even a lot of the Ashamen were unsure and they could actually feel it.
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Feb 7, 2020 14:15
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One of Rand’s triggers for his spiral into darkness in the latter books is that he did this one unambiguously good, incredible, world changing thing and no one believes or credits him for it. If he literally can’t be loved then he might as well be feared.
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Feb 7, 2020 17:09
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:One of Rand’s triggers for his spiral into darkness in the latter books is that he did this one unambiguously good, incredible, world changing thing and no one believes or credits him for it. If he literally can’t be loved then he might as well be feared. Wasn't there also a scene where Rand tells Logain he cleansed saidin and Logain doesn't believe him and thinks it was The Creator who did it instead or something? So even people who believe it was cleansed don't credit Rand for it.
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Feb 7, 2020 17:40
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For some reason I think Amazon's gonna keep WoT pg-13 nudity-wise, and probably language-wise too. Unless I hear differently, I'm gonna assume they're aiming at LOTR tier content, just a bit darker and more violent.
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Feb 8, 2020 08:38
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EvilTaytoMan posted:Wasn't there also a scene where Rand tells Logain he cleansed saidin and Logain doesn't believe him and thinks it was The Creator who did it instead or something? So even people who believe it was cleansed don't credit Rand for it. I thought Logain was saying "well of course, the Creator doesn't give a gently caress" but I'd have to read that chapter again
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Feb 8, 2020 09:35
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I thought Logain was saying "well of course, the Creator doesn't give a gently caress" but I'd have to read that chapter again Just read it. Logain doesn’t believe Rand, but doesn’t have an alternative explanation. TBF I wouldn’t believe him either. Rand completely ignores why Logain showed up and sends him to treat with the Seanchan instead. And Rand is full blown looney tunes by this point.
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Feb 8, 2020 15:20
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rndmnmbr posted:Mat starts AMoL a Seanchan nobody who can't get his cultural tics right and is obviously just the Empress's fucktoy, and by the end even the Seanchan who hate his guts are going "Holy poo poo the Prince of Ravens is a bad motherfucker". I know this is an old post but this is something I've always super hated in especially fantasy literature where everyone makes up increasingly stupid 'rumors' that everyone believes for some reason. And it's even worse when it's suppose to be people who hate the person they're making up increasingly fawning and worshipful 'rumors' about. Like this would not be out of place in the god drat Kingkiller Chronicles, where everyone makes up increasingly outlandish rumors that everyone believes about a freshman college pipsqueak who has done literally nothing of note. And then later they're part of the fawning worship everyone does of him even after he has killed the king and brought ruin to their country. It's the worst part of fantasy ever.
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Feb 8, 2020 18:57
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The difference in this case is that ecery last one of those rumors is a heavy distorted version of the truth.
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Feb 8, 2020 19:14
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Kchama posted:I know this is an old post but this is something I've always super hated in especially fantasy literature where everyone makes up increasingly stupid 'rumors' that everyone believes for some reason. Except millennia-long games of telephone is one of the central themes of WoT. Lenn flew to the moon in the belly of an eagle, Mosk and Merk fought each other with lances made of fire, etc. And in this series, the rumors start flying AFTER the heroes have started Doing Great Things, and the origins of the rumor are almost as insane and unbelievable as what they end up sounding like. Rand literally fights the fiery demon Baal'zamon in the sky above Falme. Because of the power of the legends around the Dragon Reborn the shockwaves of the very passage of these tales shatter the nations of Arad Doman, Tarabon, and Ghealdan. Far and wide paintings of the event are created, sold, and brought hundreds and thousands of miles. As tales of this claimant to the title of Dragon Reborn grow the Borderland nations war amongst each other and the resulting coalition of rulers and their levied armies abandon their homes to go search for the origins of these stories.
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Feb 8, 2020 19:14
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Except millennia-long games of telephone is one of the central themes of WoT. Lenn flew to the moon in the belly of an eagle, Mosk and Merk fought each other with lances made of fire, etc. That kind of thing legitimately makes sense. But we're talking about 'dudes who know these people personally', not 'thousand year phone tag'. And especially mentioning people who despite the hero in question. I was complaining about all those dumb "Rumors we totally made up and super believe about this guy we've personally met". Gnoman posted:The difference in this case is that ecery last one of those rumors is a heavy distorted version of the truth. Which is why I brought up Rothfuss's stupid stuff because it's the epitome of my pet peeve. Note, in those books yes Kvothe does all the things and more that the rumors talk about but at the same time they're all highly positive despite him basically being the National Villain that almost everyone despises to the point that he has to be in hiding. Also are those real in-story rumors? I thought that poster was just making poo poo up. Kchama fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Feb 8, 2020 |
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Feb 8, 2020 19:49
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Kchama posted:But we're talking about 'dudes who know these people personally', not 'thousand year phone tag'. And especially mentioning people who despite the hero in question. I'm not sure, but going by my impression of the post in question it's assuming that of the perspective of people not necessarily in direct contact with Mat. And certainly though even those of the royal court or up in the high echelons of the Ever Victorious Army may be in daily contact with Mat, they pretty much don't know the actual person in question and they'll have heard of these long distance tales of Mat's exploits through other means--and it's not likely they can feel like they can actually ask Mat to tell them the truth. Kchama posted:Also are those real in-story rumors? I thought that poster was just making poo poo up. Not really, the poster was trying to ape a certain style that's ... not as breathless as the ones in the books (but close). But they are exaggerated descriptions of events that, largely, did happen. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Feb 8, 2020 |
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Feb 8, 2020 19:56
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:I'm not sure, but going by my impression of the post in question it's assuming that of the perspective of people not necessarily in direct contact with Mat. And certainly though even those of the royal court or up in the high echelons of the Ever Victorious Army may be in daily contact with Mat, they pretty much don't know the actual person in question and they'll have heard of these long distance tales of Mat's exploits through other means--and it's not likely they can feel like they can actually ask Mat to tell them the truth. Well I should just be clear I'm not yelling at the books or anything. His post, which I did think was made up stuff, was one of those classic things I hate in fantasy. Whereas the stuff you mentioned is actually all cool stuff I like.
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Feb 8, 2020 20:00
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Kchama posted:Well I should just be clear I'm not yelling at the books or anything. His post, which I did think was made up stuff, was one of those classic things I hate in fantasy. Whereas the stuff you mentioned is actually all cool stuff I like. Fair enough. One of the things I would like the series to do well is to depict just how batty things really get. Rand destroys the biggest army of trollocs seen since the Trolloc Wars in book 1, probably within the first 4 episodes. He fights a fiery demon in the skies above Falme while literal dragonriders, sorceresses, crusaders, and ghosts fight in the streets below. Two armies of ninjas and wolves and men in black. A whole volcano erupting through a portal on top of the army of the damned. Demandred linked to a hundred golden glowing channellers raining balefire across the battlefield from a mountaintop. Rand and Nynaeve sitting absolutely stock still channelling an ocean of the One Power while the Forsaken and Cadsuane's forces battle around them. T-1000 darkhounds. And then when the wolves come in at the very end when the horn is sounded again, have it all come together and make sense. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Feb 8, 2020 |
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Feb 8, 2020 20:06
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Pander posted:For some reason I think Amazon's gonna keep WoT pg-13 nudity-wise, and probably language-wise too. to be honest, that might be for the best. i'll take that any day over some poo poo like game of thrones just kind of arbitrarily throwing in sexual assault to be 'dark'
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Feb 8, 2020 20:58
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It's not like language will be a worry. As far as actual sexual assault goes, if it's Tylin and Mat, and then the threatened rape of Elayne, that's probably good enough. More or less consensual sex in the rest of the series? Play that up!
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Feb 8, 2020 21:04
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I'm up to Crossroads in my re-read and Shaidar Haran pretty clearly rapes Messanna as punishment for her failure to show up at the cleansing battle. I sure didn't remember that from the first time around.
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Feb 8, 2020 21:16
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How are u posted:I'm up to Crossroads in my re-read and Shaidar Haran pretty clearly rapes Messanna as punishment for her failure to show up at the cleansing battle. I sure didn't remember that from the first time around. Yeah, was about to point that out. And he might also have raped Moghedien (after Aginor freed her from the A'dam and she was forced to wear her mind trap).
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Feb 8, 2020 22:22
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Kchama posted:I know this is an old post but this is something I've always super hated in especially fantasy literature where everyone makes up increasingly stupid 'rumors' that everyone believes for some reason. See, this is one of the things I like about fantasy, unraveling the truth about a person and comparing their real selves to the bullshit surrounding them. Answering the question "I'm here for the hero Suchandsuch the Slayer, why am I at a dirty pig farm with an grumpy old coot?" is entertaining. Perrin's story is pretty much going to be "Lord Goldeneyes the Wolf, king of the land of archer-ninja farmers" because I don't see him doing much else than being a respected lord over the Two Rivers once the dust has settled. Rand, well, note that the bulk of "prophecy" written about him comes from the fourth age. And I left out some of the most outrageous poo poo Matt pulled off, like blowing holes in the Stone, or killing the gholam, or rescuing Moiraine. Just reasonable rumors heard from the rank-and-file Seanchan soldier, post-Seanchan reconquest, in his own lifetime. Frankly, though, it's not hard to play the game of thousand year phone tag and go from Mat to "Wotan Glad-'o-War, carrion god, who sacrificed an eye to drink from Mimir's well, who hanged from Yggdrasil for nine days and nine nights, a sacrifice of himself to himself."
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Feb 8, 2020 23:40
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Marcus Rutherford looking swole in a recent IG story
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Feb 9, 2020 00:22
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rndmnmbr posted:See, this is one of the things I like about fantasy, unraveling the truth about a person and comparing their real selves to the bullshit surrounding them. Answering the question "I'm here for the hero Suchandsuch the Slayer, why am I at a dirty pig farm with an grumpy old coot?" is entertaining. IF it's 'thousand year phone tag' it's different, but 'contemporaneous people knowingly making up bullshit to make Mat sound cooler' is not very interesting. Unrelated, bloom posted:A wise old wizard picks up a bunch of hicks from a tiny village and takes them on an adventure because their simple rural nature makes them uniquely suited to surviving a bunch of orcs and beating the big bad who lives in a mountain. ONE YEAR LATER posted:You could say the same thing about A New Hope too. How is that A New Hope at all? Like they both have old wizards who go on an adventure with someone from a backwater region, but that's kind of where the similarities end for A New Hope. Since in ANH, the hick picks up the wizard to go on an adventure because the hick found an object claiming specifically that the wizard is the chosen one. The rest of the party is the princess, her attendant robots, and a smuggler and none of them are uniquely suited to the adventure. A New Hope is a knockoff of The Hidden Fortress, not Lord of the Rings.
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Feb 9, 2020 00:36
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