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Xik
Mar 10, 2011

Dinosaur Gum
xiphias2 5 minutes ago | parent | favorite | on: Career Builder's CEO: Young people are 'ghosting' ...

Companies could add anti-ghosting clauses, like an employee needs to give at least 1 day written notice even for the trial period. In that case if he starts working at another company on the same day when he was expected, he can be sued for damages.

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NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

devit 10 minutes ago [-]


Is there any betting market that is taking bets and has good volume on whether there is going to be a novel coronavirus pandemic?

That seems like the only way to get some clarity on this.

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene
gamblers, always better informed than public health authorities

Mr.Radar
Nov 5, 2005

You guys aren't going to believe this, but that guy is our games teacher.
this is a bit late but

JawnV6 posted:

coutt 1 day ago [-]

This is a common way of thinking about it, but nobody really knows. It's purely a conjecture. There is no data to back it up, and it just appeals to common sense.
Should everybody drop C/C++/whatever and rush into the Rust train because Rust people has conjecture?
I ask the opposite question. What would happen if the only programming language left is C? Wouldn't we become better programmers and raise the bar so high that the bug count drops to 0?
reply

as someone who primarily works on a C89 codebase on a daily basis ITYOOL 2020 with a small team let me just say: :lol: (i finally convinced management to let us move this code base to C++ and I'm counting the days until we can implement the switch)

alexandriao
Jul 20, 2019


Xik posted:

xiphias2 5 minutes ago | parent | favorite | on: Career Builder's CEO: Young people are 'ghosting' ...

Companies could add anti-ghosting clauses, like an employee needs to give at least 1 day written notice even for the trial period. In that case if he starts working at another company on the same day when he was expected, he can be sued for damages.

That's a silly idea but I still don't get why you have at-will employment other than for the capitalists to fire the workers on a whim. Pretty sure every European country guarantees severance and 2 weeks of an interim period. Sure you can walk out of your job at any time, but you can do that in Europe too, you just lose out on severance so it's not worth it. The only person benefitting from at-will employment is the business owner who can fire you whenever without giving you advance notice.

alexandriao fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Feb 13, 2020

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

alexandriao posted:

That's a silly idea but I still don't get why you have at-will employment other than for the capitalists to fire the workers on a whim. Pretty sure every European country guarantees severance and 2 weeks of an interim period. Sure you can walk out of your job at any time, but you can do that in Europe too, you just lose out on severance so it's not worth it. The only person benefitting from at-will employment is the business owner who can fire you whenever without giving you advance notice.

Yurop's a big place with a pretty huge variance in laws especially in the employment area, but I don't know of a country mapping well to any NA country.

FWIW, my current contract, which is fairly representative, stipulates a three month notice period for _both_ sides. My employer can't cancel the contract without giving a very good reason that holds up to scrutiny, but if I were to walk out I'd be on the hook for the remaining labour just as much as my employer would be on the hook for the remaining salary if they tried to get rid of me. "Severance" doesn't really exist as a concept. And typical "trial" periods are 6 months where both sides can walk away from the contract at a moment's notice.

This is notably different in, say, the nordics, which have opt-outs because they prefer a more hire-and-fire model with a relatively strong safety net, but such laissez-faire stuff doesn't fly in Germany because it's insufficiently contractual.

Also, a HN about tech companies offering predatory loans with insane interest rates in Kenya:

quote:

egdod 1 day ago [-]

Nobody’s holding a gun to their heads. This is a voluntary transaction.

Even if we paternalistically shake our heads at the interest rates and the way these companies do business... they are giving people an option that did not exist before. Those people are strictly better off for the existence of that option, since they are free to turn it down.

reply

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


got to love the brainworms that make you think that you are doing good by giving someone tHe FreEdOm oF ChOiCe between no food and poisoned food

fack you
Sep 12, 2002

For Life
lol which one of you is this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22319383

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
it’s me

Arcteryx Anarchist
Sep 15, 2007

Fun Shoe

Antigravitas posted:

Also, a HN about tech companies offering predatory loans with insane interest rates in Kenya:

this is probably a person that tries to make money on those microloan sites

SRQ
Nov 9, 2009

alexandriao posted:

Imagine being such a chud that when someone says "I want a slightly less thin laptop that allows for upgrades" you instead recommend a completely non-portable desktop tower instead.

I suggest this too sometimes though, although that's mostly wrt students wanting ~gaming laptops~ and to a strong degree informed by me getting annoyed by people with noisy Asus clunkers in class.

dads friend steve
Dec 24, 2004

it’s actually extremely paternalistic to be against usury

in a well actually
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

the biggest pater of them all was against it, checks out

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

dads friend steve posted:

it’s actually extremely paternalistic to be against usury

not all paternalism is bad hth

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
i was on top of hn all day and the dealio was weird and stupid enough that n-gate will almost certainly write about it

i wait eagerly

Destroyenator
Dec 27, 2004

Don't ask me lady, I live in beer

Antigravitas posted:

This is notably different in, say, the nordics, which have opt-outs because they prefer a more hire-and-fire model with a relatively strong safety net, but such laissez-faire stuff doesn't fly in Germany because it's insufficiently contractual.
in denmark it's 1 month notice as an employee, and the company has to give you longer notice periods the longer you're employed

quote:

Less than 6 months: 1 month. If you are subject to a trial or probationary period, your employer has the right to terminate your employment with 14 days’ notice within the first three months.
6 months - 3 years: 3 months (notice before the end of 2 years and 9 months of employment)
3 years - 6 years: 4 months (notice before the end of 5 years and 8 months of employment)
6 years - 9 years: 5 months (notice before the end of 8 years and 7 months of employment)
9 years +: 6 months (notice before the end of 8 years and 7 months of employment)

dads friend steve
Dec 24, 2004

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

not all paternalism is bad hth

I was being sarcastic, usury is actually bad

Lambert
Apr 15, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
Fallen Rib

bob dobbs is dead posted:

i was on top of hn all day and the dealio was weird and stupid enough that n-gate will almost certainly write about it

i wait eagerly

n-gate is about as insightful as the average hn poster.

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Lambert posted:

n-gate is about as insightful as the average hn poster.

but it's funnier

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Lambert posted:

N-gate might as well be the average HN commentator with the amount of weird and hot takes in that person's commentary. Not seeing much of a difference.

Also, not really a fan of the "Game of Thrones faceless man" writing style.

Lambert posted:

n-gate has tons of really dumb takes, it's quintessential HN.

Might as well read fishmac-gate.

Lambert posted:

Nah, n-gate is garbage.

Lambert posted:

n-gate is about as insightful as the average hn poster.

come on, just tell us which of your hn posts they roasted

Arcteryx Anarchist
Sep 15, 2007

Fun Shoe
don't acknowledge lambert

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.
lambert lambert what a prick

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
I got on n-gate

:black101::black101::black101::black101:

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison

bob dobbs is dead posted:

I got on n-gate

:black101::black101::black101::black101:

quote:

An Internet tries to invent digital Methadone. Hackernews recommends the same procedures for disciplining teenagers over the internet. Half of the comments are about which Python script Hackernews uses to pirate Youtube videos. The other half are struggling with the ontology of gratification. On one hand, spake Hackernews, it cannot be wise to gratify oneself instantly and frequently. On the other hand, quoth Hackernews, it's fine to jerk off constantly until you chafe your genitals to stone and die of dehydration, as long as you can quote economics textbooks to people who are only present to wait for their turn to quote their favorite folksy street philosopher.

congratulations

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

bob dobbs is dead posted:

I got on n-gate

:black101::black101::black101::black101:

lmao what did you poast

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

the hackers are disrupting 'surplus labor'


ddalex 9 hours ago [-]

> Very few innovative people seem able to reap or retain the most value of their work.
Once a company pays you, it's not your work, it's their work. They paid you fair and square.
IMHO a developer need to produce about 10x what's his paid as to cover for the company costs and profits. If one thinks that they can cover those 9 tenths in marketing, office space, infrastructure, admin and legal costs in a more efficient manner, they should quit and start their own company.
reply

Lambert
Apr 15, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
Fallen Rib

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

come on, just tell us which of your hn posts they roasted

Sorry I hurt your feelings and discussed something that is part of the thread's topic. Ngate is terrible, though. Being worse than HN is quite the accomplishment.

Arcteryx Anarchist
Sep 15, 2007

Fun Shoe

fritz posted:

the hackers are disrupting 'surplus labor'


ddalex 9 hours ago [-]

> Very few innovative people seem able to reap or retain the most value of their work.
Once a company pays you, it's not your work, it's their work. They paid you fair and square.
IMHO a developer need to produce about 10x what's his paid as to cover for the company costs and profits. If one thinks that they can cover those 9 tenths in marketing, office space, infrastructure, admin and legal costs in a more efficient manner, they should quit and start their own company.
reply

e-business tyrant

mystes
May 31, 2006

fritz posted:

the hackers are disrupting 'surplus labor'


ddalex 9 hours ago [-]

> Very few innovative people seem able to reap or retain the most value of their work.
Once a company pays you, it's not your work, it's their work. They paid you fair and square.
IMHO a developer need to produce about 10x what's his paid as to cover for the company costs and profits. If one thinks that they can cover those 9 tenths in marketing, office space, infrastructure, admin and legal costs in a more efficient manner, they should quit and start their own company.
reply
The hackers are discovering the idea of alienation from the products of their labor.

tracecomplete
Feb 26, 2017

I really enjoy the periodic eruptions of "HN fuckerface outs himself as a fascist because what's really wrong with 8chan anyway, they're just opinions".

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...
paulus_magnus2 19 minutes ago [-]

Can we stop the self hate already? There definitely are 10x musicians, 10x painters, sportsmen and 10x programmers. You know what never exists in 10x form? Burocrats and middle managers who write articles like this one.
I suggest to flag this as fake news and all future articles intended to devalue young talented programmers who yet are to discover their true market value.
reply



as a bonus the OP is a self-serving dollop of BS saying 10x programmers _do_ exist because of this one time DEC Alpha mgmt put a high estimate for a task, this poster didn't even parse the title competently

DaTroof
Nov 16, 2000

CC LIMERICK CONTEST GRAND CHAMPION
There once was a poster named Troof
Who was getting quite long in the toof

fritz posted:

the hackers are disrupting 'surplus labor'


ddalex 9 hours ago [-]

> Very few innovative people seem able to reap or retain the most value of their work.
Once a company pays you, it's not your work, it's their work. They paid you fair and square.
IMHO a developer need to produce about 10x what's his paid as to cover for the company costs and profits. If one thinks that they can cover those 9 tenths in marketing, office space, infrastructure, admin and legal costs in a more efficient manner, they should quit and start their own company.
reply

this dipshit's simultaneously owning themself while also insisting that someone else deserves to own them

pitch perfect proof that programmers are not always smart

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe
commandlinefan 11 minutes ago [-]

However you feel about unions (and I personally have many reservations), if tech workers unionize, management will have nobody to blame but themselves. They've had decades to listen to us, and they've responded with open offices, JIRA (or the equivalent) ticket quotas, unpaid overtime, whiteboard coding interviews and zero training. We're well paid but besides that, I'd be hard-pressed to think of a way we could collectively be treated with any more contempt than we already are.
reply

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


Suspicious Dish posted:

commandlinefan 11 minutes ago [-]

However you feel about unions (and I personally have many reservations), if tech workers unionize, management will have nobody to blame but themselves. They've had decades to listen to us, and they've responded with open offices, JIRA (or the equivalent) ticket quotas, unpaid overtime, whiteboard coding interviews and zero training. We're well paid but besides that, I'd be hard-pressed to think of a way we could collectively be treated with any more contempt than we already are.
reply

the correct take

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
Your salary is a direct numerical measure of your bargaining power against your employer by definition. These idiots are going to be kicking themselves when they try to unionize when their salary has been cut to $50k in a decade instead of doing it right now when their salary is $150k+

Mind you a successful union also needs to have solidarity outside its very narrow member base, but there was that story earlier itt where the overwhelming response to google cafeteria workers unionizing was "good."

On hn. Randroid shitrobot central.

Kinda think it went under the radar how big a deal that was.

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe
just find it funny that apparently "making people use JIRA" is the heinous crime, as compared to, you know, literal warcrimes and giving sex pests billions of dollars

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Suspicious Dish posted:

just find it funny that apparently "making people use JIRA" is the heinous crime, as compared to, you know, literal warcrimes and giving sex pests billions of dollars

the workplace conditions problem isn't "using JIRA" -- you had to finish the sentence. it's ticket quotas. i'd be really pissed if i had to close a quota of tickets per week. (also, all the tickets would slowly become bogus over time)

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
specifically putting forth "ok you have to document everything in jira now so we can add staffing when people get busy" rather than the real reason "so we can beancount your work"

and putting forth "we're moving to open offices so you can collaborate better" rather than the real reason "so we can keep an eye on you because we know you'll just play snood and facebook all day"

and putting forth "catered lunches so you can eat healthier, on our dime!" rather than the real reason "just take it back to your desk and have a 'working lunch' you loving animal"



The tools and perks in and of themselves aren't bad. The problem is primarily the real motivation behidn them, and secondarily the way that they lie to workers about the real motivations

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PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


i had a customer seriously proposition evaluating their developers based on the number of lines of code in their pull requests

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