hn thread: Lead is not a toxin, but is essential for the brain.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > hn thread: Lead is not a toxin, but is essential for the brain.

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FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Suspicious Dish posted:

We're well paid but besides that, I'd be hard-pressed to think of a way we could collectively be treated with any more contempt than we already are.

i can think of a thousand ways your job could treat you with more contempt

just from basic retail: dress codes, bag searches, clock in and out, hours changing from week to week, strict limits on bathroom breaks, and on and on

# ? Feb 18, 2020 20:53

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 20:38

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

FMguru posted:

i can think of a thousand ways your job could treat you with more contempt

just from basic retail: dress codes, bag searches, clock in and out, hours changing from week to week, strict limits on bathroom breaks, and on and on

clock in and out would be awesome

since then i get time and a half for your dumbass loving death march

# ? Feb 18, 2020 20:54

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

clock in and out would be awesome

since then i get time and a half for your dumbass loving death march

gotta clock out while your PR is building

# ? Feb 18, 2020 21:05

Best Bi Geek Squid: Mar 25, 2016

gonna write a song about writing my own personal custom program by smuggling it out of the office one code snippet at a time in my lunchbox. and it didn't cost me a dime

# ? Feb 18, 2020 21:08

Arcteryx Anarchist: Sep 15, 2007; Fun Shoe

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

clock in and out would be awesome

since then i get time and a half for your dumbass loving death march

YOU MUST ASK A MANAGER PERMISSION TO WORK OVERTIME

# ? Feb 18, 2020 21:08

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

no breaks no lunches we gotta get this fix out TODAY

# ? Feb 18, 2020 21:21

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

your QA stats are good, but lines per hour, CI build pass rate, average handle time, and first-ticket resolution are all below where we need them to be

# ? Feb 18, 2020 21:25

in a well actually: Jan 26, 2011; dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

PIZZA.BAT posted:

i had a customer seriously proposition evaluating their developers based on the number of lines of code in their pull requests

msft mocking ibm, 1990

# ? Feb 18, 2020 21:31

Arcteryx Anarchist: Sep 15, 2007; Fun Shoe

Nomnom Cookie posted:

no breaks no lunches we gotta get this fix out TODAY

also remember to clock out like you're taking them because we don't want any trouble with the state labor board, but you better be getting right back to work

# ? Feb 18, 2020 21:38

4lokos basilisk: Jul 17, 2008

FMguru posted:

i can think of a thousand ways your job could treat you with more contempt

just from basic retail: dress codes, bag searches, clock in and out, hours changing from week to week, strict limits on bathroom breaks, and on and on

yea not a lot of jobs going around where you get to sit in an air conditioned room, music playing on your headphones and your task is essentially to write a bunch of text documents AND get paid several multiples of the median salary

# ? Feb 18, 2020 22:12

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Penisface posted:

yea not a lot of jobs going around where you get to sit in an air conditioned room, music playing on your headphones and your task is essentially to write a bunch of text documents AND get paid several multiples of the median salary

your job sounds a lot better than mine

i spend my day talking to idiots about extremely stupid things that no one should ever care about

what is this job where i get to futz with text files instead

# ? Feb 18, 2020 22:26

Zlodo: Nov 25, 2006

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

what is this job where i get to futz with text files instead

its management op

# ? Feb 18, 2020 22:28

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

make all after-hour calls be a minimum of N billable hours (3 is the minimum time you can be asked to come in for regular jobs here), mandate overtime past 40 hours which pays time and a half, and then watch how long it takes for incentives to align towards making poo poo more stable as an experiment.

# ? Feb 19, 2020 00:00

alexandriao: Jul 20, 2019

quote:

wanderingjew 5 hours ago [flagged] [dead] [-]
While not the grandparent post, I can add some of my own experiences with unions:

Once, when workers in Chicago supported a general strike in support of an eight-hour workday, police shot and killed a number of workers. [1]. Someone threw dynamite into a crowd. A lot of people died, but we got that eight hour workday.

Another time, workers protested for higher wages, but the company owners hired private security and killed a hundred workers. The army was called in, and private planes hired by the company dropped bombs on the workers [2].

And who can forget the time the richest man on Earth hired private security as strikebreakers after a collective bargaining agreement failed? [3]? Interestingly, these workers were already part of a union, but the owner unilaterally withdrew recognition of the union. A few people died (private security...), and the collective bargaining agreement ultimately failed.

I suggest you make yourself aware of the trials unions have been through over the past two hundred years. Capital will always repress labor by any means necessary, and parroting the lines given to you by capital is implicit support. This makes you a de facto class traitor. United Bootlickers isn't a union, and even if they were, the benefits wouldn't be that great.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike

top response:

quote:

dang 1 hour ago [-]

Please don't take HN threads further into generic ideological flamewar. That direction is predictable, nasty, and tedious, and therefore badly off topic here.

# ? Feb 19, 2020 00:26

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

lol

"Stop posting relevant facts!!"

# ? Feb 19, 2020 01:04

Maximo Roboto: Feb 4, 2012

Sapozhnik posted:

On hn. Randroid shitrobot central.

Kinda think it went under the radar how big a deal that was.

I've been saying it for a while now. The winds are shifting. The current tech boom is slowing down, layoffs are rising, and people are starting to get pissed at the dilution of their shares into utter toilet paper. There was a thread a few months ago where some VC dumbass posted a fluffy praise of joining startups over larger companies, and the comments were just angry rebuke after rebuke by devs who've been burnt by startups too many times. Even if the response there was to "screw your startup scam, I'm joining FAANG", it's at least a furious response at the grifter nature of the industry.

The thread about the Mondragon Corporation and co-ops in general had a pretty positive response.

All of this is still within a technocratic-entrepreneurial capitalist framework, but at least the cultists are starting to throw away the Flavor Aid. There's been big threads about the shittiness of burnout culture, impossible whiteboarding interviews, and open offices.

# ? Feb 19, 2020 08:12

Qwertycoatl: Dec 31, 2008

lol that thread.

garry 57 days ago [-]

I guess what I wanted to say was that if you are capable of building great software, you should join the .01%, because that was my experience.

e: actually it's not as bad in the context i only skimmed, but still apparently the path to success is to be friends with peter thiel

# ? Feb 19, 2020 09:06

Maximo Roboto: Feb 4, 2012

ogre_codes 57 days ago [-]

My big mistake?

Not being buddies with Peter Thiel in 2003. Don't make my mistake, go back in time and be buddies with Peter Thiel in 2003.

Just the fact that he had a buddy who could cut him a check for $70,000 before his startup succeeded says a whole lot about the situation he was in. If you have a buddy who tosses around this kind of cash, your options are different from the options available to the overwhelming majority of us.

# ? Feb 19, 2020 09:13

Best Bi Geek Squid: Mar 25, 2016

Maximo Roboto posted:

If you have a buddy who tosses around this kind of cash, your options are different from the options available to the overwhelming majority of us.

# ? Feb 19, 2020 15:38

power botton: Nov 2, 2011

Friends and Family, LLC

# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:09

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

Maximo Roboto posted:

All of this is still within a technocratic-entrepreneurial capitalist framework, but at least the cultists are starting to throw away the Flavor Aid. There's been big threads about the shittiness of burnout culture, impossible whiteboarding interviews, and open offices.

i was honestly surprised when i saw an hn thread where the majority sentiment was "i've been doing this for 10+ years and i'm still expected to grind leetcode for interviews. this is bullshit"

# ? Feb 19, 2020 21:46

power botton: Nov 2, 2011

waugh open offices. what do you think the service industry works in for a fraction of the pay

# ? Feb 19, 2020 21:48

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Definitely productive to get into a crab mentality pissing match about one group of people who sell their labor vs another group of people who sell their labor

Any raising of class consciousness in the labor force is a good thing, though it could always stand to happen faster.

# ? Feb 19, 2020 21:54

Arcteryx Anarchist: Sep 15, 2007; Fun Shoe

The_Franz posted:

i was honestly surprised when i saw an hn thread where the majority sentiment was "i've been doing this for 10+ years and i'm still expected to grind leetcode for interviews. this is bullshit"

it's a fun two-way street

"nobody can code except for me" mixed with what anymore i almost feel like there's an unintentional/intentional collusion from employers on this to prevent employee mobility

# ? Feb 19, 2020 21:56

Maximo Roboto: Feb 4, 2012

Even investment bankers can suffer terrible working conditions, at least the junior ones:

A junior banker has died at a mid-market boutique in Chicago. The reasons for his death are not clear, but colleagues had complained about long working hours. [...]The cause of Choski's death remains unclear. Unnamed sources on Wall Street Oasis suggest that he had worked, "some crazy amount of all-nighters,"

Thomas J. Hughes, a 29-year-old, highly paid junior banker at the investment banking boutique Moelis & Company. Last May 28, hours after returning to New York from a business trip to Cleveland, he jumped to his death from the stone windowsill outside his 24th-floor rental apartment in Lower Manhattan, according to the medical examiner�s report.

Bank intern who died after 'working for 72 hours' felt pressure to excel

Sure, "boo hoo to financiers and labor aristocrats" but you also always hear similar stories about medical interns, nurses, lawyers, etc.

There's something to be said about how capitalism puts everyone in a pressure cooker, even at these higher levels of comp

# ? Feb 19, 2020 22:13

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

If ever you needed even more proof that Mike Bloomberg is a cold blooded psychopath, consider the fact that this guy has 70 billion dollars or whatever and still gets up early enough to call 5 am meetings with his underlings

# ? Feb 19, 2020 22:21

power botton: Nov 2, 2011

Sapozhnik posted:

If ever you needed even more proof that Mike Bloomberg is a cold blooded psychopath, consider the fact that this guy has 70 billion dollars or whatever and still gets up early enough to call 5 am meetings with his underlings

my ceo used to call random peoples desk phones at like 5:05 because theoretically if you started packing your things up and locking up your computer or whatever at 5 you would still be there. if you leave before it means you winded down the day at some insane time like 4:50 or something and stole 10 minutes of hard work.

# ? Feb 19, 2020 22:25

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Maximo Roboto posted:

Even investment bankers can suffer terrible working conditions, at least the junior ones:

A junior banker has died at a mid-market boutique in Chicago. The reasons for his death are not clear, but colleagues had complained about long working hours. [...]The cause of Choski's death remains unclear. Unnamed sources on Wall Street Oasis suggest that he had worked, "some crazy amount of all-nighters,"

Thomas J. Hughes, a 29-year-old, highly paid junior banker at the investment banking boutique Moelis & Company. Last May 28, hours after returning to New York from a business trip to Cleveland, he jumped to his death from the stone windowsill outside his 24th-floor rental apartment in Lower Manhattan, according to the medical examiner�s report.

Bank intern who died after 'working for 72 hours' felt pressure to excel

Sure, "boo hoo to financiers and labor aristocrats" but you also always hear similar stories about medical interns, nurses, lawyers, etc.

There's something to be said about how capitalism puts everyone in a pressure cooker, even at these higher levels of comp

junior bankers make relatively little money. lots more than the janitor, but probably a lot less than their boss's secretary.

like if you have the credentials to be a junior banker, you could make 2x as much money doing pretty much anything else in the world

it's all a giant loving competition to get one of the cherry senior jobs where the pay is outrageous, and very few of them will actually get that

like almost all will wipe out, quit, and get a normal job that pays better. for most of the junior bankers, the years of sacrifice and suffering will be for nothing. and sometimes that pressure is enough to drive them to suicide. it's an extremely lovely game

# ? Feb 19, 2020 22:26

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

power botton posted:

my ceo used to call random peoples desk phones at like 5:05 because theoretically if you started packing your things up and locking up your computer or whatever at 5 you would still be there. if you leave before it means you winded down the day at some insane time like 4:50 or something and stole 10 minutes of hard work.

this happened to me once at a lovely startup, but naturally, i had my desk phone forwarded to my cellphone. so i told the piece of poo poo ceo to join us at the bar for happy hour

it worked. he was mollified by some alcohol-fueled camraderie. however, in hindsight, it would have been better to be fired right there than experience the rest of my tenure at that job

# ? Feb 19, 2020 22:27

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

junior bankers make relatively little money. lots more than the janitor, but probably a lot less than their boss's secretary.

like if you have the credentials to be a junior banker, you could make 2x as much money doing pretty much anything else in the world

it's all a giant loving competition to get one of the cherry senior jobs where the pay is outrageous, and very few of them will actually get that

like almost all will wipe out, quit, and get a normal job that pays better. for most of the junior bankers, the years of sacrifice and suffering will be for nothing. and sometimes that pressure is enough to drive them to suicide. it's an extremely lovely game

biglaw is the same way - grind 100-hour weeks throughout your mid-late 20s for a chance at a partnership (that is actually no chance because that slot has already been set aside for someone who went to the same prep school as the senrior partner), get burned out and tossed aside, replaced by the latest young graduate from a top10 law school

# ? Feb 19, 2020 22:30

in a well actually: Jan 26, 2011; dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

junior bankers make relatively little money. lots more than the janitor, but probably a lot less than their boss's secretary.

like if you have the credentials to be a junior banker, you could make 2x as much money doing pretty much anything else in the world

it's all a giant loving competition to get one of the cherry senior jobs where the pay is outrageous, and very few of them will actually get that

like almost all will wipe out, quit, and get a normal job that pays better. for most of the junior bankers, the years of sacrifice and suffering will be for nothing. and sometimes that pressure is enough to drive them to suicide. it's an extremely lovely game

play cravath games, win capitalism prizes

sorry you worked hundred hour weeks for a low six figure salary but you can take solace in knowing your efforts helped finance bain to kill a few thousand jobs in flyovers

can always move back to your upper middle class hometown and open a boutique cafe/bakery/gallery if you dont want to call up your ivy connections

# ? Feb 19, 2020 22:44

PIZZA.BAT: Nov 12, 2016

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

junior bankers make relatively little money. lots more than the janitor, but probably a lot less than their boss's secretary.

like if you have the credentials to be a junior banker, you could make 2x as much money doing pretty much anything else in the world

it's all a giant loving competition to get one of the cherry senior jobs where the pay is outrageous, and very few of them will actually get that

like almost all will wipe out, quit, and get a normal job that pays better. for most of the junior bankers, the years of sacrifice and suffering will be for nothing. and sometimes that pressure is enough to drive them to suicide. it's an extremely lovely game

yep i have a friend who's just started going down this track. he's got a swanky mid-town manhattan apartment but i can tell it's driving him up the wall

# ? Feb 19, 2020 22:45

Maximo Roboto: Feb 4, 2012

PCjr sidecar posted:

play cravath games, win capitalism prizes

sorry you worked hundred hour weeks for a low six figure salary but you can take solace in knowing your efforts helped finance bain to kill a few thousand jobs in flyovers

can always move back to your upper middle class hometown and open a boutique cafe/bakery/gallery if you dont want to call up your ivy connections

I mean, if they even get that far. Extreme sleep deprivation + coke/upper abuse required to keep up -> suicide or brain damage is a steep price for a job even for some Long Island trust fund kid.

You can even ignore the moral component for a second. Doesn't this sort of working condition show how incredibly stupid and inefficient the bosses are? Ditto for hospital workers who work through really long shifts. You're tasking people with vitally important jobs and expecting them to be able to perform perfectly throughout really long hours, putting themselves and the work at risk. Why does management do that, does it truly save them money.

# ? Feb 19, 2020 22:54

in a well actually: Jan 26, 2011; dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

Maximo Roboto posted:

I mean, if they even get that far. Extreme sleep deprivation + coke/upper abuse required to keep up -> suicide or brain damage is a steep price for a job even for some Long Island trust fund kid.

You can even ignore the moral component for a second. Doesn't this sort of working condition show how incredibly stupid and inefficient the bosses are? Ditto for hospital workers who work through really long shifts. You're tasking people with vitally important jobs and expecting them to be able to perform perfectly throughout really long hours, putting themselves and the work at risk. Why does management do that, does it truly save them money.

with docs some of it is i was hazed so everyone should be hazed. the handoff problems they always say they�re worried sbout are dwarfed by mistakes caused by fatigue

# ? Feb 19, 2020 23:10

Maximo Roboto: Feb 4, 2012

Now it's complaints on take-home tests

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22365441

# ? Feb 19, 2020 23:31

Arcteryx Anarchist: Sep 15, 2007; Fun Shoe

FMguru posted:

biglaw is the same way - grind 100-hour weeks throughout your mid-late 20s for a chance at a partnership (that is actually no chance because that slot has already been set aside for someone who went to the same prep school as the senrior partner), get burned out and tossed aside, replaced by the latest young graduate from a top10 law school

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

junior bankers make relatively little money. lots more than the janitor, but probably a lot less than their boss's secretary.

like if you have the credentials to be a junior banker, you could make 2x as much money doing pretty much anything else in the world

it's all a giant loving competition to get one of the cherry senior jobs where the pay is outrageous, and very few of them will actually get that

like almost all will wipe out, quit, and get a normal job that pays better. for most of the junior bankers, the years of sacrifice and suffering will be for nothing. and sometimes that pressure is enough to drive them to suicide. it's an extremely lovely game

first year all in comp is about 150-160k. where is a 23 year old going to make 300-320k anywhere else in the world easily

# ? Feb 20, 2020 07:34

fritz: Jul 26, 2003

growlist 1 hour ago [-]

In a way I find it offensive that this service effectively denies my biological masculinity, which I consider to be an essential and distinguishing part of my identity. However, I'll not bother making a fuss because I realise there are far more important things in life: this being the difference between me and the virtue-signalling intellectual and moral pygmies in charge of ridiculous decisions like this.
reply

# ? Feb 20, 2020 16:18

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 20:38

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

The gently caress is that in response to, and why do I get the feeling that :ironicat:

is appropriate?

# ? Feb 20, 2020 16:23

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > hn thread: Lead is not a toxin, but is essential for the brain.

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