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Poldarn posted:I read em a few years ago and really liked them too. I liked how they were written as history books with the odd "and thirty years later so-and-so would recall" thrown in there. the parts with nimue and condwiramurs trying to dream up what might have happened were fascinating. then nimue’s flashback to when she didnt get to meet ciri because she was getting laid lmao
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Feb 18, 2020 18:58
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scary ghost dog posted:im probably going to read the newish first law book next, the big battle scene in lady of the lake reminded me a lot of the way abercrombie wrote the battles in the heroes so ive got a hankering for his style. Sweet. I was pleasantly surprised to find out that the First Law is more than a single trilogy - Abercrombie's gone on to give it three standalone sequels, and is working on a trilogy set many years later. Don't ask me why but hearing that a series is longer than I expected gets me fired up to read it. Like finding out that I didn't just get one pizza, I get three! Mind you I still have to read the First Law in the first place, but I'm working on my backlog. Always working on my backlog.
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Feb 18, 2020 18:59
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StrixNebulosa posted:Sweet. I was pleasantly surprised to find out that the First Law is more than a single trilogy - Abercrombie's gone on to give it three standalone sequels, and is working on a trilogy set many years later. Don't ask me why but hearing that a series is longer than I expected gets me fired up to read it. Like finding out that I didn't just get one pizza, I get three! the standalones are each really excellent. my favorite was red country but i have a thing for ninefingers
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Feb 18, 2020 19:00
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Sarern posted:Awesome. You do realize even Shakespeare had sources for many of his plays? Shakespeare literally wrote his contemporary equivalent to Howard Stern podcasts to entertain people. I don't know why you think bringing him up has anything to do with whatever argument you think I'm making.
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Feb 18, 2020 19:03
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Shakespeare literally wrote his contemporary equivalent to Howard Stern podcasts to entertain people. I don't know why you think bringing him up has anything to do with whatever argument you think I'm making. Your response lets any remaining readers know you can be safely ignored.
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Feb 18, 2020 19:09
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Shakespeare literally wrote his contemporary equivalent to Howard Stern podcasts to entertain people. I don't know why you think bringing him up has anything to do with whatever argument you think I'm making. Was the Witcher series not written to entertain people? drat I've been misled this entire time
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Feb 18, 2020 19:17
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the Witcher books are definitely firmly in the sword n sorcery tradition what are y'all folks on about, they're pretty good examples of the genre done outside of its golden era. in related news I found the last 2 Fafhrd and Mouser collections I was missing yesterday so now I've got all 7 hooray!
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Feb 18, 2020 19:18
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Riot Carol Danvers posted:Was the Witcher series not written to entertain people? drat I've been misled this entire time biracial bear for uncut posted:I don't know why you think bringing him up has anything to do with whatever argument you think I'm making.
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Feb 18, 2020 19:28
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Sarern posted:Your response lets any remaining readers know you can be safely ignored. Good call.
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Feb 18, 2020 19:33
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Sarern posted:Your response lets any remaining readers know you can be safely ignored. You can always go here and click the necessary button if you feel that way about it. Won't hurt my feelings one way or the other.
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Feb 18, 2020 19:40
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scary ghost dog posted:need someone to explain to me how “having medieval swords & sorcery” makes something derivative. I need someone to explain to me how being derivative makes something de facto bad. That said, I bounced off First Law like a brick wall because it read like an inferior imitation of Gemmell. I don't think I even finished the first book. YMMV, of course.
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Feb 18, 2020 19:54
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shakespeare was a coward hack who was afraid to use ents and what the gently caress is this caesarean bullshit
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Feb 18, 2020 19:57
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biracial bear for uncut posted:You can always go here and click the necessary button if you feel that way about it. Won't hurt my feelings one way or the other. Since you seem to have forgotten how assheaded your initial post was, here's a reminder: biracial bear for uncut posted:Hey guys, has anybody read any of the Elder Scrolls books? Or Warhammer 40k tie-ins?
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Feb 18, 2020 21:44
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I can't imagine a worse argument than one between a person who says, "let people enjoy things" and a person thinks that Shakespeare and Howard Stern are in any way equivalent. It was better when people were arguing you had to read 100s of pages of awful writing to reach the point where you could enjoy 1000s more pages of mediocre writing.
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Feb 18, 2020 22:14
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Someone said the 2nd/3rd books are where the Empire trilogy really gets going, and I've gotta agree 100%. It builds really well, would definitely recommend it to anyone looking for political intrigue and whatnot. I think at this point I'm definitely invested enough that I'm just going to read the Riftwar Saga proper too. Really great to have a set of books that already has a bunch of poo poo finished; I want to read more magician stuff and boom, here's a whole series on it. 90s Cringe Rock posted:shakespeare was a coward hack who was afraid to use ents True. I think my favorite LotR standalone is the Lorax, v interesting take on some underappreciated characters.
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Feb 18, 2020 22:19
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Working on my new rock opera, Reverend Horton Hears The Who (sorry, I blame the Lorax)
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Feb 18, 2020 22:30
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Jedit posted:That said, I bounced off First Law like a brick wall because it read like an inferior imitation of Gemmell. I don't think I even finished the first book. YMMV, of course. I persevered through the series and never found it outright bad, but it really irritated me how smug Abercrombie was about how meta he was being. Characters commenting every other page about how, well, maybe in the storybooks it's all glamour, but real life is muddy etc. Which is ironic given that a major thread in one of them is about a pompous, cowardly, arrogant military commander who has absolutely no idea what he's doing somehow ending up in charge of running a frontiers campaign, which seems to be drawn more from a Blackadder view of WWI generals than anything that's ever happened in real life. How did this empire become so big and powerful if it's putting pampered princelings in charge of its field armies? foutre posted:Someone said the 2nd/3rd books are where the Empire trilogy really gets going, and I've gotta agree 100%. It builds really well, would definitely recommend it to anyone looking for political intrigue and whatnot. Speaking of empires, Google confirms to my surprise that J.G. Farrell is not most people's go-to thought when they hear "Empire trilogy."
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Feb 18, 2020 23:57
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Really liked Six Wakes after it got mentioned in this thread a week or two ago. Cloning/mind-backup murder mystery on a generation ship, with a bunch of backstory chapters ala Hyperion.
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Feb 19, 2020 00:02
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freebooter posted:I persevered through the series and never found it outright bad, but it really irritated me how smug Abercrombie was about how meta he was being. Characters commenting every other page about how, well, maybe in the storybooks it's all glamour, but real life is muddy etc. Which is ironic given that a major thread in one of them is about a pompous, cowardly, arrogant military commander who has absolutely no idea what he's doing somehow ending up in charge of running a frontiers campaign, which seems to be drawn more from a Blackadder view of WWI generals than anything that's ever happened in real life. How did this empire become so big and powerful if it's putting pampered princelings in charge of its field armies? A good opportunity to post this again: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/385334385?book_show_action=true
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Feb 19, 2020 00:11
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Elphinstone was promoted to major-general in 1837, and, in 1841, during the First Anglo-Afghan War, placed in command of the British garrison in Kabul, Afghanistan, numbering around 4,500 troops, of whom 690 were European and the rest Indian.[4] The garrison also included 12,000 civilians, including soldiers' families and camp followers. He was elderly, indecisive, weak, and unwell, and proved himself utterly incompetent for the post. His entire command was massacred during the British retreat from Kabul during January 1842.[5]
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Feb 19, 2020 00:18
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fez_machine posted:I can't imagine a worse argument than one between a person who says, "let people enjoy things" and a person thinks that Shakespeare and Howard Stern are in any way equivalent. Shakespeare's plays were literally as many sex jokes as he could get away with and progressively more homoerotic characters purely to piss off the aristocracy. He wasn't writing plays for the highly educated people of his society. He was literally a shock jock before mass communication existed.
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Feb 19, 2020 01:03
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My eyes just rolled so far back in my head they're staring at my gullet
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Feb 19, 2020 01:11
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Shakespeare's plays were literally as many sex jokes as he could get away with and progressively more homoerotic characters purely to piss off the aristocracy. He wasn't writing plays for the highly educated people of his society. holy poo poo
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Feb 19, 2020 01:19
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I just finished Ancestral Night by Elizabeth Bear and I'm in the mood for more space opera along similar lines. Any recommendations? I was thinking about starting Alastair Reynolds' Revelation Space series, but it's not available on kindle yet (???). I've pretty much converted over to reading everything on my phone at this point.
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Feb 19, 2020 01:29
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Are you not in the US? Revelation Space was on kindle a while back. I mean, I got it from Amazon on mine.
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Feb 19, 2020 01:35
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sebmojo posted:My eyes just rolled so far back in my head they're staring at my gullet Why else do you think American public education puts as much effort into mythologizing his work as they do claiming Columbus "discovered" The New World? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 19, 2020 01:40
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Riot Carol Danvers posted:Are you not in the US? Revelation Space was on kindle a while back. I mean, I got it from Amazon on mine. I'm in the US, but this is what shows up. Happened for a couple other titles I was looking at picking up. 
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Feb 19, 2020 01:52
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Why else do you think American public education puts as much effort into mythologizing his work as they do claiming Columbus "discovered" The New World? hahahahaha please explain what this means and relate it back to Howard Stern
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Feb 19, 2020 01:57
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Jesus christ people I go away for one (1) work day and this thread gets more reports than the whole forum has gotten in the past month
Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 02:38
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C.M. Kruger posted:A good opportunity to post this again: This is bang on sebmojo posted:Elphinstone was promoted to major-general in 1837, and, in 1841, during the First Anglo-Afghan War, placed in command of the British garrison in Kabul, Afghanistan, numbering around 4,500 troops, of whom 690 were European and the rest Indian.[4] The garrison also included 12,000 civilians, including soldiers' families and camp followers. He was elderly, indecisive, weak, and unwell, and proved himself utterly incompetent for the post. His entire command was massacred during the British retreat from Kabul during January 1842.[5] OK, granted that it sometimes happened, but the reason it's an amusing story is that it's unusual. Whereas Abercrombie presented it (IIRC) as the only reasonable expectation of some sort of effete noble class trying to go into battle against the Real Men (TM) of the North. Anyway my biggest issue with that aspect was that it was just boring. Caricature is boring. I remember comparing it, as I read it, to Game of Thrones. GOT isn't a literary masterpiece or anything, but I do think it's very good fantasy, and I cannot easily recall any major character in Game of Thrones who is outright stupid. Cruel, vain, reckless, short-sighted, sure - but nobody who is so arrogant and pompous as to be actually dumb, because that's just not an interesting character trait and it doesn't lead to interesting stories. Abercrombie's notion of "grimdark" is a story which happens to have a lot of violence and swearing but otherwise hews very closely to predictable tropes, and his idea of genre subversion is really surface level.
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Feb 19, 2020 02:54
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TastyShrimpPlatter posted:I'm in the US, but this is what shows up. Happened for a couple other titles I was looking at picking up. That's weird. Was it with a different publisher before? Yeah looks like it was Penguin before Riot Carol Danvers fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 03:12
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freebooter posted:This is bang on yeah, his books have a very cynical tone and many of his characters are basically marx brothers villains. but they make me laugh a lot, and his simple prose is weirdly satisfying....i would rather read his work than any of the malazan books
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Feb 19, 2020 03:48
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scary ghost dog posted:i suspect bear guy only read the first book and maybe didnt notice that i was specifically praising the last one. frankly its impossible to imagine anyone who has read that book describing it as derivative. Are the main differences between the early and later books the amount of character/plot development that has had time to happen, or is the writing/theme different? Bounced off the first book but maybe I should go back to it. Also: 90s Cringe Rock posted:shakespeare was a coward hack who was afraid to use ents
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Feb 19, 2020 04:28
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freebooter posted:I persevered through the series and never found it outright bad, but it really irritated me how smug Abercrombie was about how meta he was being. Characters commenting every other page about how, well, maybe in the storybooks it's all glamour, but real life is muddy etc. Which is ironic given that a major thread in one of them is about a pompous, cowardly, arrogant military commander who has absolutely no idea what he's doing somehow ending up in charge of running a frontiers campaign, which seems to be drawn more from a Blackadder view of WWI generals than anything that's ever happened in real life. How did this empire become so big and powerful if it's putting pampered princelings in charge of its field armies? The thread in this forum about the Flashman books makes me think Abercrombie was influenced by George Macdonald Fraser. Jezal is a lot like Flashman and Fraser roasts the poo poo out of the British military during their imperial age. The Union military leadership is at least as competent as Britain’s was when they ran half the world.
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Feb 19, 2020 04:46
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Ccs posted:The thread in this forum about the Flashman books makes me think Abercrombie was influenced by George Macdonald Fraser. Jezal is a lot like Flashman and Fraser roasts the poo poo out of the British military during their imperial age. The Union military leadership is at least as competent as Britain’s was when they ran half the world. Exactly.
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Feb 19, 2020 04:55
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tildes posted:Are the main differences between the early and later books the amount of character/plot development that has had time to happen, or is the writing/theme different? Bounced off the first book but maybe I should go back to it. the writing and themes evolve mildly in a way that feels like sapkowski intended for the reader to learn the way the world works as they progress through the series, instead of any significant changes in style or subtext. but the series introduces a huge amount of characters and subplots throughout and every single one of them is given a satisfying conclusion. i was lukewarm on the first few books but by the end i was completely floored - the foreshadowing is jaw dropping in a lot of places and some details you might disregard as dropped plots come back in huge ways that make perfect sense edit: plus he does this thing where he will have chapters take place a hundred years in the future that would have been annoying if done poorly but instead give the feeling that you are being given the opportunity to find out the truth about apocrypha and mythology, which is very compelling scary ghost dog fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 04:59
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Read the Black Company and quite enjoyed it. I never thought I would like a Vietnam Medieval Fantasy but I did. A bit grimdark at times but an easy read. Excited to keep reading on.foutre posted:Someone said the 2nd/3rd books are where the Empire trilogy really gets going, and I've gotta agree 100%. It builds really well, would definitely recommend it to anyone looking for political intrigue and whatnot. Related: I just reread the Serpent War Saga. Maybe it isnt as good as I remembered but it definitely isnt bad. The whole idea of Roo trading grains futures maybe a bit silly but also maybe not I am not a historian. I did like that every character is trying, and failing to live up to their predecessors which I thought was an interesting theme. It also does quite well tying the end of the world threat to the "ordinary conflict." biracial bear for uncut posted:Shakespeare's plays were literally as many sex jokes as he could get away with and progressively more homoerotic characters purely to piss off the aristocracy. He wasn't writing plays for the highly educated people of his society. Henry VI Part 1 I think was also criticised for having fight scenes. You plebians, dont you realise true drama is when a character comes in and describes the outcome of the battle? Showing fighting? What are you Michael Bay???
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Feb 19, 2020 05:29
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Ccs posted:The thread in this forum about the Flashman books makes me think Abercrombie was influenced by George Macdonald Fraser. Jezal is a lot like Flashman and Fraser roasts the poo poo out of the British military during their imperial age. The Union military leadership is at least as competent as Britain’s was when they ran half the world. It's been like five years since I've read it but isn't Jezal one of the main characters? Alongside the cynical crippled guy and the Stock Northman? The person I'm talking about is some B-level character who IIRC ends up dead from his own incompetence. The key difference with Flashman is that Flashman is satire, whereas Abercrombie wants to be taken seriously. edit - though the more I think about it, even though I thought his own self-referential meta-ness was really smug, the idea that he was some kind of genre-subverting mastermind was mostly thrown out by the media hype machine rather than anything inherent in the novels themselves. Books deserved be judged on their own merits, and Abercrombie's books are slightly better and more intelligent than most fantasy. For me personally that's not a high enough bar to clear, but for people who are voracious fantasy readers I'd say, sure, stick them on the pile. freebooter fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 07:47
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freebooter posted:This is bang on Try actually paying attention to what Ned Stark does. It's an idiot plot. Though it's not to the degree of the prince in The First Law Trilogy. That part of it was extremely boring with how generic and cliche it was. I was hoping there'd be hints later that the whole thing was orchestrated because it's very convenient to the actual mover and shaker, but there's nary a sign.
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Feb 19, 2020 16:08
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https://twitter.com/marthawells1/status/1230148049986629632
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Feb 19, 2020 16:19
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