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Floodkiller posted:Double posting, but actually I was wrong and oh my god I'm so sorry: nobody has had claw damage since Fists of Thunder were merged in 2018. Whoops, heh heh heh... that explains why all my attempts at playing felid have been even less successful than I expected
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 21:32 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 14:24 |
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same, but trolls
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 22:02 |
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*crawl dev-ishly* let's just remove claws entirely, no one missed them for a year and a half and removal streamlines the game aesthetic
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 22:05 |
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Vim Fuego posted:*crawl dev-ishly* let's just remove claws entirely, no one missed them for a year and a half and removal streamlines the game aesthetic yes, and then remove trolls also because now they're too close to ogres
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 22:14 |
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Floodkiller posted:Double posting, but actually I was wrong and oh my god I'm so sorry: nobody has had claw damage since Fists of Thunder were merged in 2018. Whoops, heh heh heh...
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 23:04 |
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To make up for it, the logic is still broken in a way that characters with Claws 1/2 wearing gloves will keep their claw bonus and I'll just leave it like that instead of fixing it the right way (imagine it's Wolverine ruining a new set of gloves every time). I also added some special descriptors for Fists of Thunder for your unarmed description.
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# ? Feb 20, 2020 01:21 |
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God drat this all explains why my troll attempts went so bad.
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# ? Feb 20, 2020 08:12 |
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Is there any list of all the unrands that are possible for each book category for archaeologist?
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# ? Feb 20, 2020 09:10 |
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icantfindaname posted:Is there any list of all the unrands that are possible for each book category for archaeologist? Look at the entire unrand list, then: https://github.com/Floodkiller/crawl/blob/gooncrawl/crawl-ref/source/artefact.cc Under archaeologist_unrands() for the potential artifacts for each species (aka category name). https://github.com/Floodkiller/crawl/blob/gooncrawl/crawl-ref/source/ng-setup.cc Under _setup_archaeologist_crate() for the manual they are paired with.
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# ? Feb 20, 2020 23:59 |
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cock hero flux posted:yes, and then remove trolls also because now they're too close to ogres unironically remove giant clubs and giant spiked clubs until you can cast Sticks to Snakes on them to make huge rear end wyverns or dragons
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 01:46 |
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Victory Position posted:unironically remove giant clubs and giant spiked clubs until you can cast Sticks to Snakes on them to make huge rear end wyverns or dragons wyverns and dragons aren't snakes!!!! they should turn into naga, straight up
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 02:04 |
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Came back to Crawl for the first time in forever, and finally won. I think it was my 599th game I won as a MiBe, owing mainly to Trog gifting me a vamp Greatsword and a Triple Sword of Flaming that I later branded via scroll to Draining. I'm not gonna lie, I'm enjoying vanilla/mainline/trunk a fair bit at the minute, and I'm having a go at winning a HoFe as my next 'project'. Having a bit of a crack at porting some QoL changes to Gooncrawl over the past few days since I think the overall philosophy of Gooncrawl is more interesting, and some of the QoL stuff should come over ASAP so I can play it exclusively - there are pull requests active for the throwing rework, and for the change to IDing monster items on sight (based on feedback from the Google form thing a while ago). Luckily this is all stuff that's been done already on vanilla so all I have to do is steal the changes and make sure not to overwrite stuff in places we've diverged from vanilla (like accounting for Oka protecting ammo), so I don't feel like there's too much I can screw up. Paging FK and Araganzar to prove me wrong EDIT: vvv - I didn't actually realise that until today. I just kinda looked at the results graph from the voting and picked out the two things that looked easiest to pull across. I guess the protocol is to at some point put it to a vote whether to actually pull it in? Surprise T Rex fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Feb 22, 2020 |
# ? Feb 21, 2020 17:19 |
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I mean we already learn brands of monster weapons on sight, I don't see why more than that is required.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 01:53 |
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Looking at the poll, it looks like it was for features from vanilla to be ported over to Gooncrawl. I had previously set voting to 66% and monster ID, throwing overhaul, chaos brand improvements, and elemental staves/staff of battle were over that amount so I'm okay with merging them as long as they don't break things. However, it does also look like only 16 people voted in the poll, so if a bunch people want to speak up about not wanting a particular feature that passed, feel free to post about it. Likewise, if you wanted any of the features that were voted on that didn't make it, post that you do want it so some discussion can happen about if it needs another vote. This was the poll results, for reference.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 02:22 |
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Could we steal hellcrawl's hungry ghost replacement of angry ghosts and cigotuvi's embrace becoming a defensive song of slaying, perhaps? Also I think the labyrinth replacement of gauntlets from trunk is a decent idea, it could be put in as well as labyrinths if people want to keep labyrinths as they are now.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 03:38 |
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I think that would be my ideal lab/gauntlet solution. Perhaps keep the peekaboo translucent vaults to being gauntlet only as well.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 10:56 |
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i like labyrinths as a change of pace, and I'm ALWAYS in favor of more cool portals
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 11:15 |
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The .25 Trunkening Continues:quote:You quaff a potion. It was a potion of stabbing. You feel ready to backstab. You open the trunk update like a pillowcase! Potions of...Stabbing? Right...this update is definitely going to be all over the place in terms of "new" and stuff folded in to further trim.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 14:20 |
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Well there's a mighty middle finger for Enchanters, reducing Confuse to touch range and making a nominal to-hit check before doing what it did originally. I don't want to be next to a hydra before maybe getting that spell off, thank you very much. Sticky Flame's reduction was much better suited because it's a guaranteed damage dot on successful cast.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 15:37 |
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[...] a +4 leather armour with rN+, rRot and *Drain [...] So uh, can Gouls wear that? Also, what was wrong with the normal lvl3 confuse spell that it had to be nerfed into melee range?
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 18:06 |
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Not only nerfed to melee but also had its base max power cut in half. Mostly inspired by a discussion from August 2019 that Confusing Touch as a level 1 spell is too powerful, which sure there's a case to be made there. Nothing on Confuse being overpowered so I'm still "what the gently caress" about it.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 19:01 |
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I am irrationally annoyed by the vorpal change.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 22:44 |
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I'm rationally annoyed. Trunkdev hates flavor.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 23:26 |
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So I already ported and merged staff of battle and elemental staff. The Jiyva changes and a couple of mutation changes (0 MP for empowered wands, increased the SH and EV demonspawn mutation effects) are in goondev atm. Jiyva is presently buck wild with the mutations IMO a bit too much so. My time and ability to do much is pretty limited atm but if we want to get that over I can do some more testing and do a pull request. Surprise T Rex posted:- I didn't actually realise that until today. I just kinda looked at the results graph from the voting and picked out the two things that looked easiest to pull across. I guess the protocol is to at some point put it to a vote whether to actually pull it in? I don't think we need a vote as these were pretty universally wanted but as FK notes the poll was a bit on the thin side. If you want to test online you can do a pull request to goondev branch and it will rebuild on ETP around 1:30AM. The server needs some scoring work and more forks added, but seems pretty stable. It's been up for several weeks without a hiccup. edit: so here is what I mean by taking the brakes off Jiyva - this is about 4,000 turns running Snake 1-4: code:
code:
One thing I notice is that never removing Jiyva mutations means you're pretty much guaranteed to have confusing eyes which is really nice for stabbing (and in general). Other than that everything is working and it's ready to be merged. Araganzar fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Feb 23, 2020 |
# ? Feb 23, 2020 02:00 |
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Also, I had a little time to play this weekend and thought I would try out the Ascetic pledge - no potions or scrolls. And I didn't cheat by playing a skellington. I've made it to Temple as a Demonspawn with dragon king armor who somehow already has ignite blood at XL8. I'm just realizing - how is this even going to work? Scrolls aren't horrible, makes you effectively a formicid without dig. But I can't uncurse or identify. Equipping items is going to be like Russian roulette. What diety is going to solve that for me? I guess Gozag is my only good option unless I want to pray for great shops? Using potion effects strikes me as a little sketchy though. I could go Ash to find out what stuff is but once I curse an item I'll have to be buried in it.
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# ? Feb 23, 2020 02:15 |
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I just won with a stabber in 0.24 and the confuse spell did seem kind of overpowered. I used it constantly throughout the whole game, right through to zot:5. Didn't use confusing touch once. Changing confusing touch to check MR instead of HD is definitely a good change, it was a weird, counter intuitive exception. Hydras can still be beaten with ensorcelled hibernation so that isn't a huge deal. Undead are now much scarier though and if confusing touch now has a low power cap that makes it useless after lair things may be very hard for stabbers indeed. Dazzling Spray has been changed too, hasn't it? Maybe that's viable? Amethyst fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Feb 27, 2020 |
# ? Feb 27, 2020 05:39 |
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I've tried out the Reaver start a few times and honestly have no idea what you're meant to do with it? It seems like a Skald with some spells that don't seem to do all that much, and a possibly good level 5 spell I've never managed to live long enough to use.
Einwand fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Feb 28, 2020 |
# ? Feb 28, 2020 01:51 |
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Amethyst posted:I just won with a stabber in 0.24 and the confuse spell did seem kind of overpowered. I used it constantly throughout the whole game, right through to zot:5. Didn't use confusing touch once. Dazzling Flash is a dual school Conjurations/Hexes, level 3 spell. X chances against Y for blind-vulnerable monsters where X = 95 - (monster_HD * (3 + distance_from_you)) Y = 150 - spell_power which is capped at 50. Range is 2-3, down from 5 which makes sense considering it's now full AOE instead of a cone. Power remains the same, which means it has about 40-50% (anecdotally) chance of affecting demonic crawlers in Spider's Nest, the one normal enemy there that can't be hit by Confuse as effectively due to its beefy 100 MR or EH because it has rC+. It was about the only reason I used it, to be honest; once out of Lair it was better to be Invisible or throwing Confuse around. The issue is hey, it's another spell powered by HD!
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# ? Feb 28, 2020 02:42 |
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So positional magic as a stabber may look like: 1) scout a group of enemies 2) cast confusing touch 3) approach group and pop dazzling flash to break up the group and start kiting those unaffected 4) isolate further as necessary with ensorcelled hibernation as they close to melee range 5) When you've wheedled down the group enough, kill off the persistant enemies with confusing touch/ensorcelled hibernation Seems pretty reasonable to me, more interesting than spamming confuse all game long for a similar result E: I agree the HD thing sucks
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# ? Feb 28, 2020 02:50 |
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There's nothing wrong with having a bread and butter spell. Fire Elementalists are quite happy spamming Fireball for early/mid game, for example, because it could be relied on to kill most things they encountered. Confuse was the Enchanter's ol' reliable.
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# ? Feb 28, 2020 02:56 |
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Hell, most of the reason gooncrawl split off is that trunkdev's become increasingly obsessed with 'this is unobjectively good/not "interesting"(read: is unobjectively good)/doesn't fit with the turncount/winrate-obsessed tavern playstyle, therefore we must remove it' decision making. Don't confuse 'more tedious' with 'more interesting'.
Haifisch fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Feb 28, 2020 |
# ? Feb 28, 2020 03:01 |
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Einwand posted:I've tried out the Reaver start a few times and honestly have no idea what you're meant to do with it? It seems like a Skald with some spells that don't seem to do all that much, and a possibly good level 5 spell I've never managed to live long enough to use. It's a hybrid start and I'd say it's a quite good one. Chill Thread is extremely good, Ozo's Armor means you will have good AC and EV and still be able to cast. Differential expansion is better than lance of force. Blade of Disaster is amazing. Maybe you aren't using Ozo's or something? I don't think I've had any problems with survival at all. I don't really see the issue with Confuse. A hexer sleeps or confuses. It's not like hexing was overpowered, it drops off in usefulness as its power cap is hit, it's just about the only thing you have going for yourself as a stabber until you get Invisibility. I'm not sure why we think stabbers need to spend ten minutes whittling down a group a pure melee would just steamroll. I see stabbing/hexing ideally as a play style that changes what monsters are real threats and I find that interesting. I don't think confusing touch is a terrible change though, it's just not one I'm terribly excited about.
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# ? Feb 28, 2020 03:21 |
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It feels like to me for Reaver trying to use the book spells other than chill thread early is just a waste of exp because your only offensive ability is hitting things with your mundane melee weapon. I suppose I could start as a Reaver and just train like a fighter until mid dungeon where I could afford exp to get support magic like dazzling spray or "force lance" castable. I'll actually use blade of disaster one of these days.
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# ? Feb 28, 2020 04:16 |
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Einwand posted:It feels like to me for Reaver trying to use the book spells other than chill thread early is just a waste of exp because your only offensive ability is hitting things with your mundane melee weapon. I suppose I could start as a Reaver and just train like a fighter until mid dungeon where I could afford exp to get support magic like dazzling spray or "force lance" castable. I'll actually use blade of disaster one of these days. It's unfortunate that you were silent when we were designing the background, coding it, putting it on the goondev fork, and asking for feedback. Sorry it's not working for you, giving melee hybrids a reason to push conjurations is in principle quite difficult and it may not be a solvable problem. But with chill thread and ozo's I find it's just about an automatic ticket to lair. I think the issue now is there's not really a good rest stop on the way to Blade. Probably differential expansion needs to be pumped up even more. Not sure what's wrong with getting dazzling spray online pre-Lair though, it's a good spell for quite some time. But ultimately it should be replaced with a thematic offensive spell that's offers utility for offense, separation, and escape similar to conjure flame. Maybe we could remove the movement penalty on Ozo's, I didn't see anyone using it to 15 rune in 20k turns before it was nerfed.
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# ? Feb 28, 2020 05:01 |
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Sage Grimm posted:There's nothing wrong with having a bread and butter spell. Fire Elementalists are quite happy spamming Fireball for early/mid game, for example, because it could be relied on to kill most things they encountered. Confuse was the Enchanter's ol' reliable. Fireball is a level 5 dual school AOE spell that makes tons of noise. So it’s both positional and incurs serious hunger costs for a lot of the game. Confuse is a level 3 single school bolt with LOS range. You can spam it in almost every fight brainlessly. It makes many other spells with more interesting trade offs basically redundant. I dont see it as a massive problem bit I can see why the devs want to improve this situation. Amethyst fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Feb 28, 2020 |
# ? Feb 28, 2020 05:02 |
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Haifisch posted:Hell, most of the reason gooncrawl split off is that trunkdev's become increasingly obsessed with 'this is unobjectively good/not "interesting"(read: is unobjectively good)/doesn't fit with the turncount/winrate-obsessed tavern playstyle, therefore we must remove it' decision making. Don't confuse 'more tedious' with 'more interesting'.
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# ? Feb 28, 2020 05:03 |
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Amethyst posted:I don’t see how the confuse thing fits with this. Spamming confuse is tedious. no more or less so than casting any other spell, and i certainly prefer it over having to get into melee range to try to confuse anything.
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# ? Feb 28, 2020 05:37 |
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someone awful. posted:no more or less so than casting any other spell, and i certainly prefer it over having to get into melee range to try to confuse anything. You can blind and hibernate from range, though. Plus they've buffed leda's liquification. It's not like they've just ripped stuff out thoughtlessly. I don't agree with you at all that all spells are equally interesting to cast. A bolt spell requires zero thought. An AOE or touch spell requires consideration and leads to more interesting tactical situations.
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# ? Feb 28, 2020 05:44 |
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I'll play some more and try to get some feelings on it beyond that, but I'm mostly just not seeing what the intended starting direction for experience spending is. Skalds only need a pittance of exp spent to get their charms up and running, and gain a significant power boost from it and are then free to focus on getting their basic fight skills up to snuff before branching out from there into more combat skill focus or combat magic depending on the run. More traditional mages using conjurations gain reliability and power for their heavy focus on magic skills, getting conjure flame and sticky flame reliable is a massive power boost for a Fire Elementalist which leaves them with space to get some fighting skills or just go even harder on blasting magic. A Fighter only needs exp in 2 or 3 skills early on, weapon skill/fighting/maybe some armor or evasion, while a more traditional mage needs it in spellcasting/their usually 2 primary related magic schools typically conjurations+an element. Meanwhile Reavers need weapon skill/fighting/spell casting/conjurations/ice/hexes/charms to get their full starting kit up and functional, and since all of Reaver's early game spells are level 3 it takes awhile to even get one of them up and running in early dungeon. The exp I could spend to get ozocubu's armor usable in leather armor or robes could instead be spent on making my weapon of choice functional and just put on any random ring or scale armor I find at the cost of a little bit of EV/spell penalty.
Einwand fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Feb 28, 2020 |
# ? Feb 28, 2020 05:50 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 14:24 |
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Amethyst posted:I don't agree with you at all that all spells are equally interesting to cast. A bolt spell requires zero thought. An AOE or touch spell requires consideration and leads to more interesting tactical situations. I don't want every use of MP to come with 5 minutes of delicious chin-stroking pondering puzzling. I want to blow things up. Superterranean fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Feb 28, 2020 |
# ? Feb 28, 2020 05:51 |