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Notorious b.s.d. posted:to be fair this is just "how lisp was done" for forty years -- the old maclisp and cmucl had related heap-dumping mechanisms Yeah, but they dumped the Lisp heap (and controlled the layout entirely themselves), not the bizarre unexec poo poo that Emacs got up to.
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Feb 25, 2020 10:31
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yeah, i'm a bit surprised they didn't solve this by adding better dumping primitives to elisp and do it all on the lisp side. a bit worse performance than being able to mmap in a frozen version of almost the whole program i guess, but, like, how bad can this possibly be? plus one would be able to also "bake" ones init.el in a clean way, and tbqh my init.el doesn't take that much less time than the startup baked by unexec (because i do many really unnecessary dumb things in it)
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Feb 25, 2020 10:39
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:does this thread have an opinion on UnRaid? I want to pool up a bunch of disks with a dell raid card and not paying for a windows server license would be nice. ZFS but amateur and without the good parts, is my impression. And marketed at "hardcore gamers" according to their website, so that disqualifies that trash immediately. Ditch the card unless it can run as a dumb HBA. Sun had a burning hatred for raid cards and they were absolutely correct. There are two modern file systems, btrfs and zfs. If you want raid, you either do mdraid+btrfs (because btrfs has a terrible raid implementation) or zfs. Zfs is the only file system I trust and is by far the most pleasant to actually deal with. If you just want a NAS and not deal with the internal crap, I hear freenas is still okay.
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Feb 25, 2020 12:59
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btrfs raid 1, 0, 10, 1c3 and 1c4 does not have that write hole problem. the issues with btrfs raid5 and 6 is a bit overblown too, but i guess you can't ever be sure that you'll get an unclean shutdown during a write at the perfectly wrong time, so be aware i guess there is a big plus with using btrfs raid over mdadm raid, and that is mixing and matching uneven disks and still guarantee data integrity. here's a neat calculator for showing what's possible: https://carfax.org.uk/btrfs-usage/
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Feb 25, 2020 13:23
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don’t use btrfs or zfs. if ext4 or xfs don’t suit your needs then you’re needs are wrong hth
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Feb 25, 2020 13:26
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my life quality went considerately up after switching from xfs to btrfs years back, it makes doing backups extremely neat and simple. but, as with other filesystems, you have to know its caveats for not loving it up: - dont use it on lvm - know when to use nocow (dbs, vms, logs) - remember that btrfs send/recv does not transfer nocow attrs - raid56 has a write hole issue, so don't use it if you're not on a ups/battery. (i've run btrfs raid6 as a test on one of my backup servers for years without issue though, but of course it has offsite backups too)
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Feb 25, 2020 13:41
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We have ~0.5PB on ZFS and I use it at home in a simple mirror. The weird Windows people get access to hourly snapshots via the "previous versions" tab and the Linux people know how to copy from the snapdir. Not having to go to backup because some numpty unlinked a TB of research data is its own reward. Also, not having to deal with btrfs caveats is nice. ZFS's caveats are much more interesting and fun, but at least they don't eat your data.
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Feb 25, 2020 13:59
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at this point, i'm just using ceph it's cool and good
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Feb 25, 2020 14:01
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Using ceph… on top of zfs. 
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Feb 25, 2020 14:16
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btrfs is much more forgiving than zfs when it comes to raid configuring. i linked someones blog post about it many pages ago. Five Years of Btrfs use one of the safe raid modes if you're worried about the write hole issue. i wouldn't worry about any data eating issues no more than with any other file system.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:18
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thanks for the replies but holy crap I don’t want to janitor my home nas so freenas it is I guess! I’m pooling up a bunch of 1 and 2 tb disks to make like 10 or 12tb depending on how many I have and how many are left for failures, so nothing too huge
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Feb 25, 2020 14:18
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:I don’t want to janitor my home nas Jim Silly-Balls posted:I’m pooling up a bunch of 1 and 2 tb disks to make like 10 or 12tb hmm
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Feb 25, 2020 15:39
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:thanks for the replies but holy crap I don’t want to janitor my home nas so freenas it is I guess! friend, you want unraid.
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Feb 25, 2020 15:42
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hifi posted:hmm yes but I expect it to suck and not work well, which I wouldn’t if I was truly janitoring it.
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Feb 25, 2020 16:31
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the electrical costs alone should pay for replacing those 1tb disks with something sane
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Feb 25, 2020 17:46
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I just have a synology ds413 (4 drives, 2013), still works fine and still gets updates, with extremely minimal janitoring. the cpu is probably quite slow these days but that doesn’t matter for playing linux isos off it it had been shut off for over a year during an international move, just got it plugged in again a couple days ago and one of the drives (bought 8 years ago when the thing was new) had click of death. popped in a new bigger drive and it repaired on its own in a day or so it started off with 2x1tb + 2x2tb, then a few years later the 1tbs were both replaced with 4tbs when those started getting cheap, and now the quite old 2tbs are both being replaced with another two 4tbs. outside of occasionally going into the UI and hitting the update button this has basically been the entirety of my janitoring of the thing over several years and several moves it’s raid5 right now but with the recent capacity upgrade I don’t need 12tb storage and it looks like I could live convert it to raid6 if I wanted
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Feb 25, 2020 18:48
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oh and it uses regular md raid or something underneath with a thick veneer of automation on top also can run third party packages of questionable origin and you can enable ssh and log into it directly if you want but *taps minimal janitoring rule*
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Feb 25, 2020 18:54
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Using a NAS is boring. Where's your sense for adventure? 
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Feb 25, 2020 19:46
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Athas posted:Yeah, but they dumped the Lisp heap (and controlled the layout entirely themselves), not the bizarre unexec poo poo that Emacs got up to. yeah like lots of things RMS has done he made a cheap imitation of what some better and more careful system designers put together I just got a Symbolics 3620 and MacIvory 2 (in a kitted-out IIfx), the 3620 will require a ton of restoration though including extremely deep cleaning thanks to vermin
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Feb 25, 2020 21:51
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eschaton posted:yeah like lots of things RMS has done he made a cheap imitation of what some better and more careful system designers put together i had long wanted a ux400 or ux1200, the vme counterparts to the macivory 1 and 2 what i never anticipated is by the time a ux400 came along at a somewhat olerable price, it was no longer possible to find the once-common sun4 systems that it was meant to slot into so i passed on it 
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Feb 26, 2020 01:59
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sun boxes owned. I ran Debian on a sparc 5 for a while and it was pretty ok
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Feb 26, 2020 03:43
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sun was good and cool pity they had no business model
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Feb 26, 2020 03:45
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speaking of rms, apparently the acting president of the fsf has been completely melting down
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Feb 26, 2020 04:02
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rjmccall posted:speaking of rms, apparently the acting president of the fsf has been completely melting down do tell
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Feb 26, 2020 04:15
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:do tell https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1232441610031357953 https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1232441610777972737 https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1232441883135053824
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Feb 26, 2020 04:25
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jesus is the whole organization hosed this was the best they could do?
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Feb 26, 2020 04:26
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its an organization as worthless as the software it promotes
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Feb 26, 2020 04:28
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i am partial to "free software 9/11"
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Feb 26, 2020 04:33
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it would make a good thread title
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Feb 26, 2020 05:23
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i had long wanted a ux400 or ux1200, the vme counterparts to the macivory 1 and 2 shoulda grabbed one of those too when they were a dime a dozen I also just got a Sun-4/110 (with stand) for cheap from someone who might have more, I can find out if you want then if I can wrangle a UX400S or UX1200S (which are the same as the XL400/1200 with different PALs and jumpering) I’ll have something to put it in if you have another 9U VME system (or want to run something other than an ancient SunOS) the complete sources for the lispm lifesupport are known, so technically you could build it yourself Symbolics had a partial port of the lifesupport to Irix and filed for UX400G and UX1200G trademarks so they were definitely planning on people running them outside Suns
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Feb 26, 2020 05:36
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Last Chance posted:it would make a good thread title 2019 is the Year of Free Software 9/11
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Feb 26, 2020 05:37
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9/11 software was a FOSS job.
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Feb 26, 2020 05:41
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quote:"Free Software Sept 11" MODS
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Feb 26, 2020 05:46
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9/11 is the day of GNU on the desktop
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Feb 26, 2020 06:07
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eschaton posted:I also just got a Sun-4/110 (with stand) for cheap from someone who might have more, I can find out if you want first off, i'm on the wrong coast, shipping would be insane secondly, the 4/110 sucked real bad. the good vme sparcs that they would have been targeting with the "ux" products were the big desksides -- 4/470, 670mp, etc. 2nd and 3rd gen equipment. the 4/110 was like the roadrunner. it was almost a customer-facing beta product. the 4/110 is a super cool item for its own sake -- the first real sparc! -- but i don't think it would make a great host for a lispm vme board lastly i mostly just feel guilty about the number of 670mps i have seen go to scrap in my life. why the gently caress didn't i rescue a couple of those back in the day
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Feb 26, 2020 06:11
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a second linux has hit the desktop tower
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Feb 26, 2020 10:24
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All gnu software is half off on free software 9/11!
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Feb 26, 2020 10:49
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rjmccall posted:https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1232441610031357953 it turns out when you take the weirdest people in a very weird niche of a weird subculture and give them a public platform they act weird and loving blow it big time 
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Feb 26, 2020 14:52
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josh04 posted:a second linux has hit the desktop tower Allahu slackware
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Feb 26, 2020 14:56
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it’s time to fork gnu software (a full featured OS as defined by posix which runs on the Linux kernel)
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Feb 26, 2020 16:57
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