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egg tats posted:speaking of anime, drinking with skeletons just posted a new video reminding everyone that the only legal way to watch trigun is a lovely sub 240i DVD rip (and also some stuff about how media preservation is important or something) Hey, that's me! Thanks for posting my video so that I didn't have to do it myself.  LORD OF BOOTY posted:Just to nitpick, but the organization is Janus Films. Criterion Collection is just the label they use for home releases. I believe Criterion Collection spun off from Janus at some point (or were always a seperate entity). They have their own entry on the New York Department of State registry, at the very least.
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Feb 26, 2020 09:48
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Grimbeard does a review of Gorky 17
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Feb 26, 2020 11:15
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JordanKai posted:Hey, that's me! Thanks for posting my video so that I didn't have to do it myself. It was a good video and I'm glad that someone likes Trigun as much as I do.
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Feb 26, 2020 16:36
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It's really annoying how media industries would rather something be lost forever than lose the possibility they could continue to profit from it.
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Feb 26, 2020 17:59
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Capitalism is a disease.
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Feb 26, 2020 18:03
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Doctor Reynolds posted:Capitalism is a disease. And yet a lot of pop media exists because of it.
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Feb 26, 2020 18:08
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Archer666 posted:And yet a lot of pop media exists because of it. Wow drat how interesting. Guess it ain't that bad after all, huh.
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Feb 26, 2020 18:18
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Archer666 posted:And yet a lot of pop media exists because of it. Most creative media exists IN SPITE OF capitalism, not because of. Also Ladiva and cute catguys are the best part of Granblue.
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Feb 26, 2020 18:23
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The creative and business sides of entertainment are always going to be at each other’s throats, but neither can succeed without the other. Most media costs a shitton of money to produce, and very few people are going to invest that kind of cash into anything if they don’t expect to see a return on it. Even media distributed for free online still depends on the infrastructure of the modern internet, which came about because corporations like Microsoft saw a profit in selling computers and software.
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Feb 26, 2020 18:35
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Bakeneko posted:The creative and business sides of entertainment are always going to be at each other’s throats, but neither can succeed without the other. Most media costs a shitton of money to produce, and very few people are going to invest that kind of cash into anything if they don’t expect to see a return on it. Even media distributed for free online still depends on the infrastructure of the modern internet, which came about because corporations like Microsoft saw a profit in selling computers and software. This does not, however, make capitalism as an economic system a necessary prerequisite to art existing. It just describes how art is created within capitalism.
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Feb 26, 2020 18:43
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Darth Walrus posted:This does not, however, make capitalism as an economic system a necessary prerequisite to art existing. It just describes how art is created within capitalism. Well art of some sort will always exist but good luck hearing about it or seeing it when it can't be widely distrubuted. And Archer666's comment wasn't about art in general, it was about pop media.
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Feb 26, 2020 18:49
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I guess the Soviet Union had no art until the Berlin Wall fell. But on a better note, KaiserBeamz reviews the other Sonic the Hedgehog movie! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6dpQBOq6Po Someone should buy him an account. Or, looking at this thread's history, maybe not.
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Feb 26, 2020 18:52
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Archer666 posted:And yet a lot of pop media exists because of it. 
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Feb 26, 2020 19:03
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Raenir Salazar posted:It's really annoying how media industries would rather something be lost forever than lose the possibility they could continue to profit from it. Doctor Reynolds posted:Capitalism is a disease.  Jamie Faith fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 19:26
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Bakeneko posted:Well art of some sort will always exist but good luck hearing about it or seeing it when it can't be widely distrubuted. And Archer666's comment wasn't about art in general, it was about pop media. Yeah, I'm talking purely about pop media. Of course there are passion projects and indie stuff that gets made with blood, sweat and tears and a tiny budget or crowdfunding, but those are exceptions. Hell considering this subject got breached because of anime: Anime itself is used regularly to sell manga/statues/mech kits/make capitalism happen. Gundam wouldn't exist if Bandai didn't want to sell some toys. The first Jojo anime anything were OVAs that started in the middle of part 3 story so people would get interested and buy the manga. I still count those as art, but those are projects that most likely wouldn't exist without Capitalism.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:32
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Bakeneko posted:The creative and business sides of entertainment are always going to be at each other’s throats, but neither can succeed without the other. 
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Feb 26, 2020 19:37
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When you have a creative team unbridled by any sensible business policies like 'make and ship a video game in less than a decade you loving cretins', you get poo poo like Duke Nukem Forever. When you have a business that doesn't give a poo poo about creativity, well, waves hand vaguely in the direction of AAA video games
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Feb 26, 2020 19:39
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On the other hand, how many creative endeavours never get started because 'the market isn't right for it' or the artist is a wage slave and comes home too tired making rent to pick up that paintbrush? Art will still happen without capitalism. It'll be different art, but maybe that's a the price of killing capitalism and that's a price I will goddamn pay.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:43
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Yardbomb posted:[meme] Did you only read that one sentence you quoted? I thought it was clear enough. The creative side needs the business side because they need investment in order to produce and distribute their work, especially if it’s something as complicated and expensive to make as a movie. Meanwhile the business side needs the creative side because otherwise they wouldn’t have a product to sell.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:48
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Archer666 posted:Hell considering this subject got breached because of anime: Anime itself is used regularly to sell manga/statues/mech kits/make capitalism happen. Gundam wouldn't exist if Bandai didn't want to sell some toys. The first Jojo anime anything were OVAs that started in the middle of part 3 story so people would get interested and buy the manga. I still count those as art, but those are projects that most likely wouldn't exist without Capitalism. Gundam '79, while a very popular show among the older teen/college aged bracket, was famously terrible at selling toys to young boys. This lead to the show being cancelled. Now, it just so happens that after-the-fact the companies involved learned to market products to this older fan base, and the show would have a resurgence. But Gundam's success is less an example of capitalism promoting good art so much as capitalism drat near killing it in the crib.
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Feb 26, 2020 20:07
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Schwarzwald posted:Gundam '79, while a very popular show among the older teen/college aged bracket, was famously terrible at selling toys to young boys. This lead to the show being cancelled. You're misunderstanding me. I'm talking about the initial idea to get Gundam '79 made. It was to sell toys made by a company called Clover. Capitalism was therefore integral to the creation of Gundam. That Gundam failed its initial goal at selling toys and then got saved by creating a different product for a different market is not relevant to my point.
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Feb 26, 2020 20:18
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Archer666 posted:I still count those as art, but those are projects that most likely wouldn't exist without Capitalism. This is a hollow thought experiment because all specific pop art we can name "wouldn't exist without Capitalism" because if we didn't have any Capitalism we'd be living in an extremely different alternate reality where Coke would be named Klob and Pepsi would be Dr. Pepper, and Dr. Pepper would be an actual person, and everyone with facial hair would shave and everyone without facial hair would have a goatee. Of course the things that exist in our current realty exist in connection with the systems that exist in our reality, but Capitalism doesn't have some magical monopoly on enabling the existence of pop art. Pop art has existed since time immemorable, across myriad political and economic systems. Would it look substantially different under another system, in either content or distribution? Of course. Duh. But its existence isn't contingent on Capitalism. Hell, might as well sit here and go "well, if we do away with aristocratic patronage how will we ever get Shakespeare?!"
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Feb 26, 2020 20:32
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really wish they would stop milking capitalism and come up with some fresh ideas for once
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Feb 26, 2020 20:38
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Bakeneko posted:Even media distributed for free online still depends on the infrastructure of the modern internet, which came about because corporations like Microsoft saw a profit in selling computers and software. No, this is not remotely how the internet came to be established. Even if you meant the physical infrastructure that allows the internet to exist, that was built off the back of the old telecommunications networks and relied on massive investment from national governments. Microsoft did not have the capital to build the internet even if it wanted to. And it very much didn't given its corporate behaviour since its founding. Dabir posted:When you have a creative team unbridled by any sensible business policies like 'make and ship a video game in less than a decade you loving cretins', you get poo poo like Duke Nukem Forever. When you have a business that doesn't give a poo poo about creativity, well, waves hand vaguely in the direction of AAA video games I get what you're saying but DNF isn't a good example as that was less the creative team (who had massive turnover IIRC) and more that DNF was the personal passion project of the guy who owned the IP and the company. So he could spend years wasting everyone's time polishing and polishing and throwing the companies assets into a pit since it was his toy and his company. Its a pretty good demonstration of the problems with capital relating to art. Essentially one person could take the careers of thousands of people off a cliff without any accountability because that person was the recognised property owner. Bakeneko posted:Did you only read that one sentence you quoted? I thought it was clear enough. The problem is you're equating business with production and distribution. We know this is a false association because we have multiple examples of art being produced and distributed without the business side being involved. And we have plenty of times where business actively stops art from being produced and distributed. Hell even in capitalist hellworld most of the modern media (film, television, radio, computers, internet) wouldn't be as big or as advanced as they are without massive support from governments.
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Feb 26, 2020 20:39
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watho posted:really wish they would stop milking capitalism and come up with some fresh ideas for once i think it's finally time for some Hoxhaist art
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Feb 26, 2020 20:42
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watho posted:really wish they would stop milking capitalism and come up with some fresh ideas for once I'm just sick of the current dark and gritty reboot. Maybe after this final crossover event they could go back to the days of lighthearted capitalism, at least?
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Feb 26, 2020 20:51
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Baka-nin posted:No, this is not remotely how the internet came to be established. Even if you meant the physical infrastructure that allows the internet to exist, that was built off the back of the old telecommunications networks and relied on massive investment from national governments. Microsoft did not have the capital to build the internet even if it wanted to. And it very much didn't given its corporate behaviour since its founding. Baka-nin posted:The problem is you're equating business with production and distribution. We know this is a false association because we have multiple examples of art being produced and distributed without the business side being involved. And we have plenty of times where business actively stops art from being produced and distributed. Hell even in capitalist hellworld most of the modern media (film, television, radio, computers, internet) wouldn't be as big or as advanced as they are without massive support from governments.
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Feb 26, 2020 21:07
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watho posted:really wish they would stop milking capitalism and come up with some fresh ideas for once Capitalism... ...2
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Feb 26, 2020 21:14
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Bakeneko posted:There are examples of things getting funded in non-traditional ways, yes, but the funding still has to come from somewhere.
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Feb 26, 2020 21:26
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Ghostlight posted:...under capitalism Under everything. Remember we're only talking about large-scale media production here, not people making something in their spare time for themselves or their friends. Unless you're saying everyone involved in making a movie should just work for free?
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Feb 26, 2020 21:39
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Yeah.
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Feb 26, 2020 21:44
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Bakeneko posted:Unless you're saying everyone involved in making a movie should just work for free? Given the sheer number of people every year who attempt to make filmmaking into a career despite poor job prospects, unstable pay, and high competition, evidence suggests that money is not, in fact, the primary motivator and people would absolutely do the job for free, assuming how they spent their day wasn't otherwise directly tied to their economic survival. Basically the main reason people don't just spend their time making movies is because Capitalism demands they convert their time into money in order to not starve and die homeless.
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Feb 26, 2020 21:50
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I thought this was the joke he was making at first.
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Feb 26, 2020 21:56
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FoldableHuman posted:Given the sheer number of people every year who attempt to make filmmaking into a career despite poor job prospects, unstable pay, and high competition, evidence suggests that money is not, in fact, the primary motivator and people would absolutely do the job for free, assuming how they spent their day wasn't otherwise directly tied to their economic survival. But how they spend their day is always going to be tied into their economic survival. You’ve got to have some kind of job, and if it’s not in a field you enjoy then it’s just something you do to pay the bills, unless you’re already rich enough to not have to worry about that sort of thing. I agree that lots of people mess around as a hobby making low-budget movies with their friends, but as I pointed out that kind of amateur stuff is not the topic of discussion here. Professional movies of the kind produced by Hollywood require a lot of people working full-time on them, meaning they don’t have time to be working a second job in order to eat, meaning the moviemaking itself has to pay. Now you could argue that you don’t care about Hollywood or professional movies, and you’re fine with only watching amateur indie stuff. There’s no problem with that as a personal preference, but a lot of people don’t share that preference.
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Feb 26, 2020 22:05
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Bakeneko posted:But how they spend their day is always going to be tied into their economic survival. You’ve got to have some kind of job, and if it’s not in a field you enjoy then it’s just something you do to pay the bills, unless you’re already rich enough to not have to worry about that sort of thing. what you have to understand is that you're talking about how societies work in reality and everyone else itt is talking about some kind of Star Trek utopia
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Feb 26, 2020 22:10
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Bonaventure posted:what you have to understand is that you're talking about how societies work in reality and everyone else itt is talking about some kind of Star Trek utopia A community coming together and supporting each other isn't Star Trek utopia, it's the basis of many anti-capitalist societies. It's the elimination of private property and surplus wealth and the seizure of the means of production, which is what the capitalist own and siphon from their workers. Eliminate the capitalist and you eliminate the person who makes 500 times as much as you do a hour. You eliminate the person who spends their vast wealth to ensure you stay poor and they stay wealthy. That step allows you, the worker, to benefit greatly and through direct democracy have a say in the direction of the place in which you work. After that, you can move towards eliminating wealth itself and set up a federation of communes who work to fulfill the needs of yours and other communities. Something is impossible until it isn't. You only think so because this rugged individualist society has beaten you down so many times that think anything better isn't possible. Late-capitalism is such a hellscape that people are outright rejecting the neoliberal policy that brought us to this point and the ruling class are flipping their poo poo that a social democrat who is proposing basic safety nets and some nationalization of essential industry (while still working withing a capitalist society) is the democratic front-runner. Wait until they see what an actual communist/anarchist wants to do to the country.
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Feb 26, 2020 22:37
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Hey I'm just saying, love your enthusiasm but the second you overthrow the yoke I'm sitting my rear end down and collecting my coupons and rations and whenever someone knocks on my door asking to participate in some mass media production for no further benefit I'll slam the door mostly shut, because the forfeiture of property means I can't shut my door fully. I will however reach my arm out and give them a middle finger through the legally allowed gap in the door.
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Feb 26, 2020 22:43
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that middle finger belongs to the people. it is not yours to give.
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Feb 26, 2020 22:45
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I'll share the expression of the middle finger with the people. A gently caress to each and every one
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Feb 26, 2020 22:46
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JordanKai posted:Hey, that's me! Thanks for posting my video so that I didn't have to do it myself. I really liked your video! About Criterion: Criterion Collection Inc. has always been a separate entity. They were originally a subsidiary of an educational software company called The Voyager Company. Janus is/was owned by the fathers of the owners of Criterion PenguinKnight fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 22:48
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