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I always heard them called "brain zaps", and I used to get them from some, probably most of the anti-depressants I tried. Sometimes they would be pretty frequent if I missed a dosage by more than an hour or two. They are not painful, just annoying. It's like your mind suddenly hiccups pulses with an "oh poo poo!" realization, only over nothing. When I realized these were from anti-depressants I started to consider that maybe I'm better off without them, and that was confirmed when whatever med I was on caused me to lash out at work and lose my job about five years ago, a behavior I never would have done normally. I lost count of how many anti-depressants I tried over a decade and not one of them had benefits that outweighed the life-altering side effects. I get that there are people who can find one and be perfect on it but in general I think they are far too risky, unknown, and unstable, and unfortunately so many people are trapped in a cycle of them like I was, assuming they would be even worse without them. I feel like this is what Diane's story was trying to show (albeit treading lightly), that she isn't really any better at all, possibly even worse, but she's caught in the downward spiral.
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Feb 29, 2020 19:20
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Wait, did I miss something? I thought Diane went back to taking antidepressants after she tried quitting, and was still on them while gaining a successful happy career and marriage.
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Feb 29, 2020 19:45
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Straight White Shark posted:Wait, did I miss something? I thought Diane went back to taking antidepressants after she tried quitting, and was still on them while gaining a successful happy career and marriage. She quit her meds cold turkey which is the worst thing you can do, then went back on them and became more stable but the initial problems were still there.
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Feb 29, 2020 20:22
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:I always heard them called "brain zaps", and I used to get them from some, probably most of the anti-depressants I tried. Sometimes they would be pretty frequent if I missed a dosage by more than an hour or two. They are not painful, just annoying. It's like your mind suddenly hiccups pulses with an "oh poo poo!" realization, only over nothing. brain zaps loving suck, i had them from celexa withdrawal and they were intense- a full-brain vvvvvVVVAP electrical feeling accompanied with no thought so my anxiety just filled in 'oh this is it, im dying' every time, and they'd hit every 10d12 minutes. every since then i just do cognitive behavioral therapy and it's harder work, slower- but the main side-effect is 'petting my cat more' so it's a good tradeoff for me antidepressants do save a lot of people from abject misery, though, and I'd go on them again if I were in crisis- so I am glad the show had a 'hey maybe try these' message instead of leaning into a depressive, 'nothing will ever work' message
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Feb 29, 2020 20:26
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:She quit her meds cold turkey which is the worst thing you can do, then went back on them and became more stable but the initial problems were still there. I mean I respect your experiences and am not trying to dismiss them or anything, but what initial problems are you referring to? "Good damage" was almost entirely about how antidepressants WERE helping Diane write and be creative and be happier and more balanced. It's true she wasn't able to write the book she initially wanted to in the first place, but the episode takes great strides to point out that it's not because of the antidepressants, but arguably it was because she didn't REALLY want to write about her bad experiences and she was forcing herself to do so in order to make those experiences "worth" something. I'm also frankly surprised how Diane's situation can be seen as "possibly even worse" now that she's on anti-depressants. She's actually motivated to write, she's able to write material that is touching people just like she always wanted, she isn't lashing out at those close to her, she was able to get happily married with someone who respects her that she gets along with. Like aside from her gaining weight, I literally can't think of any way her life is worse off than it was before she took anti-depressants.
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Feb 29, 2020 21:48
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CodfishCartographer posted:I mean I respect your experiences and am not trying to dismiss them or anything, but what initial problems are you referring to? "Good damage" was almost entirely about how antidepressants WERE helping Diane write and be creative and be happier and more balanced. It's true she wasn't able to write the book she initially wanted to in the first place, but the episode takes great strides to point out that it's not because of the antidepressants, but arguably it was because she didn't REALLY want to write about her bad experiences and she was forcing herself to do so in order to make those experiences "worth" something. I might be remembering some of her plot details wrong or projecting my experience with anti-depressants onto it, but my takeaway was that she was at least functional before taking anti-depressants, albeit lashing out at people. While on them she lashed out at herself more often, struggled to function or find motivation to do anything, and had a serious case of "brain fog" where your mind is freaking out because it isn't sure how to feel about anything. Quitting the anti-depressants cold turkey made her realize that they do, in fact, help her, but not without hindering side effects. It would be obviously irresponsible for the show to say "antidepressants are bad actually" (even though I think they are, for most people), but I definitely felt like the show was saying "they help, but not without significant trade-offs." Again I probably need to re-watch though too.
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Feb 29, 2020 23:34
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:I might be remembering some of her plot details wrong or projecting my experience with anti-depressants onto it, but my takeaway was that she was at least functional before taking anti-depressants, albeit lashing out at people. While on them she lashed out at herself more often, struggled to function or find motivation to do anything, and had a serious case of "brain fog" where your mind is freaking out because it isn't sure how to feel about anything. Quitting the anti-depressants cold turkey made her realize that they do, in fact, help her, but not without hindering side effects. She was lashing out at herself continually even before she went on the antidepressants. She was typing "you are garbage" to herself over and over again and spending months not being able to write anything even before she went on antidepressants. Then she went on antidepressants and still couldn't write the book she thought she wanted to write, but could write other stuff. Her inability to write her book ultimately had nothing to do with the antidepressants and everything to do with it being a profoundly unhealthy topic for her to obsess over.
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Mar 1, 2020 00:05
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Diane couldn't write not because she had brain fog but because she literally couldn't write the book she wanted to write. Other than that she was basically her "upper" self until she decided to quit the antidepressants cold turkey.
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Mar 1, 2020 00:11
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Dias posted:Diane couldn't write not because she had brain fog but because she literally couldn't write the book she wanted to write. Yup. She blamed it on anti-depressants, but really it’s because she didn’t know how to translate her bad experiences into a story she wanted to tell. I’m quite sure RBW’s purpose was to counter the “creatives need to be miserable” message behind every lovely tortured artist trope. Although my experience with meds loving sucked and I no longer take them, I definitely wouldn’t dissuade someone else from trying them because experiences vary.
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Mar 1, 2020 03:14
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Mental health and what needs to be done to help a person with depression is an incredibly personal thing that varies wildly from person to person and there's no one universal solution that fits everyone. Brains are weird like that.
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Mar 1, 2020 04:09
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Straight White Shark posted:She was lashing out at herself continually even before she went on the antidepressants. She was typing "you are garbage" to herself over and over again and spending months not being able to write anything even before she went on antidepressants. Then she went on antidepressants and still couldn't write the book she thought she wanted to write, but could write other stuff. Her inability to write her book ultimately had nothing to do with the antidepressants and everything to do with it being a profoundly unhealthy topic for her to obsess over. Ok, yeah I guess I'll have to watch it again, something I was going to do anyway. I've jumbled up at what points she was on and off meds.
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Mar 1, 2020 04:40
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Pretty much on a whim, I decided a few weeks ago to check this out because I heard people say good things about it, and holy poo poo, I wish I started watching earlier.  Binging all 6 seasons did a hell of a number on me emotionally and mentally, but I don't regret it one bit. I think I'm going to need some time to process my overall thoughts, but I think I can confidently say that this was one of the best shows I've ever seen. PunkBoy fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Mar 1, 2020 |
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Mar 1, 2020 10:41
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PunkBoy posted:Pretty much on a whim, I decided a few weeks ago to check out this out because I heard people say good things about it, and holy poo poo, I wish I started watching earlier. Honestly I think binging through it would be a totally different experience and I kinda wish I could have done that. I'd kinda like to know what it felt like plowing through all at once instead of letting each season mellow for almost a year.
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Mar 1, 2020 10:49
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Mental health and what needs to be done to help a person with depression is an incredibly personal thing that varies wildly from person to person and there's no one universal solution that fits everyone. Brains are weird like that. Yeah, assuming all anti-depressants would have similar effects is like assuming all casts would fit on different broken bones. It’s not just an issue of hormones and brain chemistry, but of the particular damage as well
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Mar 1, 2020 13:27
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Solice Kirsk posted:Honestly I think binging through it would be a totally different experience and I kinda wish I could have done that. I'd kinda like to know what it felt like plowing through all at once instead of letting each season mellow for almost a year. I think something that was really beneficial for me was that I was able to quickly pick up on returning characters/plot points. I didn't have to wrack my brain trying to remember who a character was, or what thing was being called back to. It made the all pieces fit and flow together. As weird as it may sound, binging also allowed me to take my time more with watching individual episodes. Instead of rushing through each season to try to stay ahead of spoilers, I could leisurely pause and look for all the little details (which I absolutely adored!) and then take a look at this thread and see what everyone else picked up. Emotionally, as cliche as it sounds, it was roller coaster. Going from the climax (and subsequent spiraling down) of a season to the rapidly approaching disaster in the next was stomach churning, to say the least.
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Mar 1, 2020 18:22
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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah, assuming all anti-depressants would have similar effects is like assuming all casts would fit on different broken bones. It’s not just an issue of hormones and brain chemistry, but of the particular damage as well Yeah, this. Despite the negative side effects, Lexapro quite literally saved my life. It gave me enough to get through the situation which had prompted the problems, and after about six months I just stopped taking it which isn't the smartest move but I didn't get any real withdrawal. Everyone's experience with this things seems to be different.
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Mar 1, 2020 23:52
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PunkBoy posted:I think something that was really beneficial for me was that I was able to quickly pick up on returning characters/plot points. I didn't have to wrack my brain trying to remember who a character was, or what thing was being called back to. It made the all pieces fit and flow together. As weird as it may sound, binging also allowed me to take my time more with watching individual episodes. Instead of rushing through each season to try to stay ahead of spoilers, I could leisurely pause and look for all the little details (which I absolutely adored!) and then take a look at this thread and see what everyone else picked up. Emotionally, as cliche as it sounds, it was roller coaster. Going from the climax (and subsequent spiraling down) of a season to the rapidly approaching disaster in the next was stomach churning, to say the least. I feel this post. During S6 I found myself frequently thinking things like "Hey that's an interesting new character, wonder what her significance is going to be ... oh wait, people are talking about her like she was a big deal in like S1? Holy poo poo that was six years ago *gandalf_i_have_no_memory_of_this_place.jpg*" I guess a binge is in my future
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Mar 2, 2020 14:17
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TLDR: This show is very good and made it easier for me to seek help One thing I’d like to share about depression is that it can be difficult, sometimes nearly impossible, to communicate what it is or what it means to a psychologically healthy person who has only ever been “sad” before. Until you’ve experienced it or lived with someone who is, it can be incredibly hard to really parse what it means. I personally cop to straight up not thinking it was real, or thinking that everyone who said they had it was just being a baby, or being emo, or not taking charge of their life. And then I absolutely destroyed my life due to addiction, and over the next couple of years as my brain slowly but surely began to unfuck itself from the decade of abuse I’d rained down upon it, there are days where I cannot even begin to care about shaving, or bills, or my family, or work, or anything. I work with animals, and I would never allow harm or discomfort to come to an animal, so I could literally put myself on auto-pilot and just completely check out for 6-12 hours, until suddenly you’re home and you look at your phone and you’ve been talking to your boss all day and going through the motions but it feels more like you’re wearing a fake You suit than anything else. I use Mazlow’s Hierarchy of Human Needs as sort of a checklist for my depression days, my suicidal days, my anxiety days, to just sort of guide me as I sleepwalk through life. I have never had health care, and all my therapists are out of pocket. Even if I could afford mental health drugs, I’m not sure I even believe that more drugs are the answer, since drugs are part of the reason I cannot experience happiness anymore. Bojack Horseman is the only show I’ve ever watched that shows you all these different kinds of depression, from serious suicidal blackouts, to the goofy-yet-incessant animations sprinting through your imagination, constantly reminding you how awful and disgusting and hosed up you are. I probably wouldn’t be as comfortable working with professionals as I am if it weren’t for this show, and I hope that somewhere down the road this show really gets held up as a really beautiful time capsule of the state of mental health and emotional paralysis in the 2010’s and how are society, opulent to the point of gross excess, cannot seem to get a grip on the very basic needs of its citizens and their mental health.
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Mar 2, 2020 14:17
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so on my first watch of "the view from halfway down," i thought it was hilarious of them to reveal that crackerjack never killed any nazis or liberated any camps. on rewatch, i realize that none of that was actually real. just bojack's brain doing what it has to do to make sense of what's happening. we can therefore see this scene as yet another indicator of bojack's rabid and undying hatred of the troops, as first demonstrated in the incident with neal mcbeal the navy seal, who made the ultimate sacrifice and also had dibs
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Mar 3, 2020 19:07
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The Neal McBeal episode is when I decided I loved the show.
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Mar 4, 2020 02:13
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Yeah I’ve never felt the need to tell anyone to skip the first 6 episodes and I always felt like you wouldn’t give a poo poo about the complex emotional psychodrama of the wacky animal people if you didn’t like their corny jokes, zippy wordplay, and constant high and low brow sight gags, and the first 6 episodes contain lots of that. The show is obviously finding its footing but it’s not like a premium HBO show where every episode is an hour long. You can get through all the “bad” episodes of of Bojack in 2 hours, and then before you know it BOOM you’re off to the races!
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Mar 4, 2020 12:09
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The first episode is dire, to the point I've always assumed it was developed as a pilot. The first couple after that are fine though
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Mar 4, 2020 12:13
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I don’t know if it means anything, but is the finale the first time we see Mr Peanutbutter wearing a real suit and not his tacky tuxedo tee?
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Mar 4, 2020 13:59
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Solice Kirsk posted:The Neal McBeal episode is when I decided I loved the show. it said a lot of things that needed to be said
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Mar 4, 2020 15:48
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Daikloktos posted:The first episode is dire, to the point I've always assumed it was developed as a pilot. The first couple after that are fine though They're okay. There's definitely a fair share of hacky low effort and shock humor though and not much emotional weight to suggest it's more than another edgy adult animated sitcom. That's why I always tell people not to skip the first 6 or 7 episodes, but that they're a slight hurdle.
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Mar 4, 2020 17:29
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The moment that got me hooked was when BoJack goes to Herbs house and Herb tells him he's a lovely person and won't forgive him. If anyone watches up to that bit and isn't interested after that, then maybe it's not the show for them.
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Mar 4, 2020 19:11
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Solice Kirsk posted:The Neal McBeal episode is when I decided I loved the show. I re-watched it recently and found it holds up. I love when Neal gets so wound up that he starts barking incoherently - that's basically me when I'm mad.
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Mar 4, 2020 19:16
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DaWolfey posted:The moment that got me hooked was when BoJack goes to Herbs house and Herb tells him he's a lovely person and won't forgive him. That might be when the show really first shows it's teeth I remember being surprised and fully expected him to forgive BoJack because that's what TV shows do. Late people calling BoJack out was pretty easy to call from half a season away because you know the show can and will do it, and BoJack is still acting like a lovely person.
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Mar 4, 2020 20:02
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DaWolfey posted:The moment that got me hooked was when BoJack goes to Herbs house and Herb tells him he's a lovely person and won't forgive him. Same, this is episode 8, and I believe this is the defining moment where it becomes a better show. There are some hints at that before this moment. but it's where the show slaps you across the face. Then you get to episode 11 and you're like, holy poo poo, the critical acclaim is true! I often wonder how much of the first half of season 1 being a little different was intentional to add surprise once you're invested, and how much of it was just the show finding its footing.
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Mar 4, 2020 20:19
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:Same, this is episode 8, and I believe this is the defining moment where it becomes a better show. There are some hints at that before this moment. but it's where the show slaps you across the face. Then you get to episode 11 and you're like, holy poo poo, the critical acclaim is true! I often wonder how much of the first half of season 1 being a little different was intentional to add surprise once you're invested, and how much of it was just the show finding its footing. Now imagine watching it when there were no reviews and you had no inkling it was gonna be anything other than a comedy. THAT was a surprise, lemme tell you.
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Mar 4, 2020 21:14
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Yeah I always saw the early episodes as both a mold to intentionally break out of, as well as a more comfortable place to start viewers with a new show on a relatively new platform. It’s like if a sitcom ran a few basic episodes before the structure starts to warp. The first few episodes of bojack horseman are the episodes bojack would want to show you.
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Mar 4, 2020 21:44
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there was a good interview about the origin of the show which explains a bit as to why the pilot and early first season is a bit tonally different https://www.vulture.com/2018/09/bojack-horseman-oral-history.html tldr the pilot existed years before the rest of the first season, which was written in a big crash all at once when netflix picked up the show quote:Raphael Bob-Waksberg: We had the first two episodes written, and I started writing the third episode without a staff, thinking, “Well, all right, let’s get ready.” Then we started building a writing staff. We had a table read that first week; we didn’t have any of the prep time that you normally have.
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Mar 4, 2020 22:01
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I would never tell someone to skip the first few episodes. The later ones only hit like they do because you know the characters and are invested in them. Watching The Telescope as your first episode with Bojack in it sounds like a terrible idea. Asgerd posted:I don’t know if it means anything, but is the finale the first time we see Mr Peanutbutter wearing a real suit and not his tacky tuxedo tee? He wore the sparkly purple suit for HWSaCWDTKDTKTLFO. Also I never thought of it as a tacky tee so much as a dog tuxedo turned into a t-shirt.
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Mar 5, 2020 01:21
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Personally I think Episode 4 is the best introduction to the characters, yet watching them in order is the best way to enjoy the ramp towards serious character study
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Mar 5, 2020 04:32
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I would never tell someone to skip the first few episodes. The later ones only hit like they do because you know the characters and are invested in them. Watching The Telescope as your first episode with Bojack in it sounds like a terrible idea. To clarify I never tell people to skip them, just that they shouldn't judge the quality of the show until The Telescope. I do wish the first episode could be skipped, though.
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Mar 5, 2020 08:14
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Seeing BoJack gently caress over Todd's dream rock opera was when I first "got" the show. Also the introduction of acclaimed character actress Margo Martindale!
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Mar 5, 2020 15:47
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the first season is interesting because the show sort of camouflages itself as a Seth MacFarlane-esque adult comedy, something willing to hint at dark content or rely on it for a punchline. then the back half is actually realising no, this isn't a dark gag this is their lives.
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Mar 5, 2020 16:25
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PunkBoy posted:Seeing BoJack gently caress over Todd's dream rock opera was when I first "got" the show. Also the introduction of acclaimed character actress Margo Martindale! I love how the first thing Biscuits Braxby his Bojack with after the 17 minutes thing is sleeping with his fanclub president. By Season 4 it was so far down the list of lovely things you don't even register it as anything more than the gag it's played for, but once it's put in the right context it's absolutely in the pantheon. I also liked in Season 5 when Bojack throws out "What happened with the hairdresser on Horsin' Around" as one of the million things he's never told Dianne and her reaction, as ours, is to reflexively assume the worst. It's like how the incident with Jameson made it on Braxby's list - it turns out not to be as damning as it sounds when you know the story, entirely the opposite in the Jameson case, but there's a reason your mind jumps that hard. Daikloktos fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Mar 5, 2020 |
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Mar 5, 2020 16:28
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It was kind of a joke that the smoking guns didn't fire and Todd figured it out in a more bizarre way.but it's also part of season 1's theme Season 1 Bojack thinks life is a 90s sitcom and tries to fix everything with Wacky Plans and Schemes (attempting to ruin Diane's wedding, stealing the d, going along with the rock opera but sabotaging it). So it's part of that theme that the world does not play out the way it would in one. This is another way I see Diane and Bojack actually sort of mirroring each other: right after she gets mad at Bojack for insinuating they are the same she makes that script that lets him know she knows there's something he's not telling her. There's also the fetus episode where she's going to find some way to tell people the dolphin abortion was fake until she realized other people needed that song. She also runs away pretty much as much as Bojack does. The thing about Bojack is he does learn, which is something narcissists I know can't do. There are definite end points to a lot of his behaviors. He stops with the Schemes after... I think season 1. After the incident with Charlotte and penny he never looks for a woman to complete him again and is able to have female friendships. After he realizes comments about hollyhock's figure hurt her he actually gets concerned about the shows he's on and how they will hurt her. But the problems he caused in the first place were things he did need to answer for because in the real world there's no undo button.
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Mar 5, 2020 17:25
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CoolCab posted:the first season is interesting because the show sort of camouflages itself as a Seth MacFarlane-esque adult comedy, something willing to hint at dark content or rely on it for a punchline. then the back half is actually realising no, this isn't a dark gag this is their lives. It does camouflage itself just a little too well. Like, episodes 3 & 4 (Sarah Lynn and Todd's rock opera) are both funny but they're couched as zany one-off sitcom episodes that the show quickly forgets about. It's not until much further along in the season that it really gets serious about the consequences of earlier episodes, so if you binged the first hour or two of the show you could easily write it off as a pretty funny generic adult cartoon.
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Mar 5, 2020 17:32
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