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zedprime posted:Yes,sure, we all went to middle school and learned pie charts show portions of a whole. Let's say I'm a teacher and evaluating my students' pass rate in an exam. I compare those that passed first time, those that passed on a resit, and those that failed both. I obviously don't care how many times the fails fit into the passes, I just want a fraction of the class that passed. As well as seeing the fraction that passed first time, I can also combine two categories and see what fraction overall passed at all purely visually without any additional calculation. Assume also that I have to present this information to management so can't assume they'll figure out anything from pure numbers or words with more than three syllables.
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Mar 5, 2020 17:59
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also lmao as I was going through an old imgur dump to find that image I came across this amazing example of a pie chart, that definitely belongs in this thread:
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Mar 5, 2020 17:59
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i think they were trying to replicate the nightingale rose/coxcomb but yeah the data don't work that way and the long tail just makes it illegible  zedprime posted:I think I or someone asks this every few months in this thread, but why do pie charts exist? Has anyone ever looked at a pie chart and said "yeah that's an accurate and cool representation of facts?" i'm kind of reminded of that adage about the american civil war: "if you know nothing, you think it was about slavery. if you know a little history, you know that it was about a complex set of economic and political factors. and if you know a lot, you know that, yeah, it was about slavery" robert kosara has written a lot of "pie chart apologia" papers (https://research.tableau.com/sites/default/files/Kosara-EuroVisShort-2019b.pdf and https://research.tableau.com/sites/default/files/Skau-EuroVis-2016.pdf for instance)and what it boils down to is that we are probably no worse at pulling numbers out of them than stacked bar charts or other things where we are comparing relative area (it's unclear if we are literally looking at angle when we decode these things), and in fact might be better than things like treemaps. they also have a strong visual metaphor of part versus whole that a lot of "more accurate" designs don't give you. so they are not great and i almost never use them, but i've toned down on the visceral hate for them. they are okay at what they do and people are used to seeing them which means you don't need a ton of explanation or scaffolding, so i guess it's live and let live, for pie charts
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Mar 5, 2020 18:04
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This is doubly bullshit, because it diminishes how contagious COVID-19 is. The real takeaway message should be "coronavirus is about as contagious as the flu" instead of "coronavirus is waaaay less contagious than one of the most infectious diseases in history sweet jesus get your MMR"
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Mar 5, 2020 18:38
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Tenebrais posted:Assume also that I have to present this information to management so can't assume they'll figure out anything from pure numbers or words with more than three syllables. I realize it's probably confirmation bias that we really remember the train crash pie charts and there's just fine ones that don't stick out any more than a sentence saying "budget is comparatively low." I realize they're a just fine way of looking at proportional data. But I'm still not convinced proportions are what we need to be worried about in many cases we have a just fine pie chart. That's probably short sighted or elitist but I'm ok with that.
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Mar 5, 2020 18:38
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Oh my god did they just plot the R0s as proportion of a whole???? Why in the gently caress. klafbang posted:Pie charts are good for showing which percentage of pie charts that look like PacMan. It's around 75%. How about pyramids.
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Mar 5, 2020 18:39
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zedprime posted:If our visual design aspires to no more, you can hypnotize them with some red or green circles, up, down, or sideways arrows. Or maybe some clip art of a duck giving a thumbs up or thumbs down. Honestly, this is pretty much what data visualisation is for. In any serious analysis, a simple grid of numbers is going to be much more useful than a graph, since if you want to think about what a graph is saying for more than a couple of seconds you're going to be looking at the numbers already and a straightforward grid will save your eyes dancing across the page to find them on their relevant bar or segment or whatever. Plenty of times you'll see both together, though this is more likely in a report (where you can choose for yourself what you want a quick skim vs deeper analysis) rather than a presentation. What graphs are good for is to give a quick "good or bad" to an audience without much patience for analysis, while giving them assurance that the analysis exists somewhere because you can see the vague shape of the numbers on this graph.
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Mar 5, 2020 18:56
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Tenebrais posted:Honestly, this is pretty much what data visualisation is for. In any serious analysis, a simple grid of numbers is going to be much more useful than a graph, since if you want to think about what a graph is saying for more than a couple of seconds you're going to be looking at the numbers already and a straightforward grid will save your eyes dancing across the page to find them on their relevant bar or segment or whatever. Plenty of times you'll see both together, though this is more likely in a report (where you can choose for yourself what you want a quick skim vs deeper analysis) rather than a presentation. Historically, engineering really believed in charts for usability. There's a reason that, until modern computers were a thing, psychrometric charts for instance were charts instead of tables. Admittedly, that's like the opposite case of a pie chart, but. Unreal_One has a new favorite as of 19:07 on Mar 5, 2020 |
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Mar 5, 2020 19:04
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vyelkin posted:There are some that are useful. I believe the colors are consistent between all the charts, with the lightest color representing the top quintile, and getting darker as it goes down. Thus it's the second-highest quintile that holds 36% of total wealth in Sweden, while the highest quintile holds 11%
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Mar 5, 2020 19:29
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Kantesu posted:I believe the colors are consistent between all the charts, with the lightest color representing the top quintile, and getting darker as it goes down. Thus it's the second-highest quintile that holds 36% of total wealth in Sweden, while the highest quintile holds 11% 18%. The lowest quintile is the one with 11%. Which is, uh. As an American: Wow.
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Mar 5, 2020 20:57
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Kantesu posted:I believe the colors are consistent between all the charts, with the lightest color representing the top quintile, and getting darker as it goes down. Thus it's the second-highest quintile that holds 36% of total wealth in Sweden, while the highest quintile holds 11% That literally cannot be true, since by definition the highest wealth quintile must have the highest number for proportion of wealth. e: if you go to the actual paper they provide this confusing clarification: quote:We used Sweden’s income rather than wealth distribution because it provided a clearer contrast to the other two wealth distribution examples; although more equal than the United States’ wealth distribution, Sweden’s wealth distribution is still extremely top heavy. vyelkin has a new favorite as of 21:33 on Mar 5, 2020 |
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Mar 5, 2020 21:30
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^Yeah, the whole thing seems sort of questionable. Here's a funny thing. This is the source of that image: https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Publica...227d08b71be.pdf According to a note in there, the Sweden chart isn't actually a chart of wealth distribution, but income distribution. Sweden's wealth distribution actually looks a lot like the US's, and they wanted something that looked appreciably "in between" the equal distribution and the US one. The "Sweden" graph does seem to be super screwed. First, the note about it not actually being the same measure as the other graph of real data. Second, it lends itself to the mistake I just made (which I now believe would require a massive contortion of what constitutes a "quintile" to be the correct interpretation). Third, yeah, that isn't at all how that chart should be arranged.
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Mar 5, 2020 22:19
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HIV more contagious than the flu?
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Mar 5, 2020 23:43
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Strom Cuzewon posted:This is doubly bullshit, because it diminishes how contagious COVID-19 is. The real takeaway message should be "coronavirus is about as contagious as the flu" instead of "coronavirus is waaaay less contagious than one of the most infectious diseases in history sweet jesus get your MMR" It's The Australian, it's the worst Murdoch bullshit on the planet so anything they ever say is suspect and it should only ever be used to start a fire, if that fire is going to be used to burn more copies of The Australian
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Mar 5, 2020 23:45
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Theris posted:Is there a name for the phenomena where a serious problem is discovered -> it hits the media and the general public gets concerned -> people like HSM say things like "why are you worried, remember the last time there was something like this and nothing happened?" -> a poo poo ton of resources and labor go into stopping the problem or mitigating the worst outcomes so the most serious predicted effects don't happen -> people like HSM say "See? I was right all along, you stupid panicking sheeple. Public health initiatives, and I guess any actions taken to better the lives of people, allow people to forget the original problem in the long-term because people fall sway to idiot ideologues and vote against the ongoing solution once the problem becomes a distant memory. So you could call them self-defeating. Ozone depletion is a great example, but there's also labor laws, consumer protection laws, workplace safety regulations, banking regulations, food hygiene standards, public school/university, social safety net programs, labor unions, progressive taxation, vaccine initiatives, criminal justice reforms, environmental regulations, family planning programs, abortion rights, reproductive healthcare programs, childcare subsidies, daycare, drug abuse treatment, needle exchanges etc. etc. etc. Take pretty much any center right to extreme right platform that's seeking to cut government spending on X or proposing to do away with Y and you got mountains of history and evidence that led to the solution being implemented and also proves them wrong. Whether that solution is properly implemented in the society you live in is based on how much influence those politicians or the spineless centrists have had in order to water down the solutions. Edit: I'd also like to say that it's considered burdensome to have regulations by individuals trying to work in a regulated industry because they literally do not care about what they do. Chefs who care about their food tend to care about the standards that prevent them from poisoning people for some reason. Mauser has a new favorite as of 00:06 on Mar 6, 2020 |
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Mar 6, 2020 00:03
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Platystemon posted:HIV more contagious than the flu? You've never sneezed and given someone AIDS?
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Mar 6, 2020 00:17
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vyelkin posted:also lmao as I was going through an old imgur dump to find that image I came across this amazing example of a pie chart, that definitely belongs in this thread: Yeah see the problem with 24 hour news networks is less that they are using pie charts for things that are bad to use pie charts for, and more that they just use graphs in general as a form of clip-art, as if to say "what you are looking at is data" and nothing more.
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Mar 6, 2020 00:29
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klafbang posted:Pie charts are good for showing which percentage of pie charts that look like PacMan. It's around 75%. Also, how much of the Egyptian landscape is a pyramid, the pyramid in the shade, or the sky.
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Mar 6, 2020 00:31
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Mauser posted:Edit: I'd also like to say that it's considered burdensome to have regulations by individuals trying to work in a regulated industry because they literally do not care about what they do. Chefs who care about their food tend to care about the standards that prevent them from poisoning people for some reason. Eh, to an extent. The company I work for has been doing a lot of work to prove that we're acting in our customers' best interests, even though doing so is a huge part of our reputation. So the paperwork around the regulations can add a burden, even if the regulations are necessary.
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Mar 6, 2020 03:02
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 This story explains what makes this chart awful quote:The chart is a hopeless mess and almost everything it shows is wrong. The main argument the paper makes is that the only way Sanders could retain his relative strength in polls (compared to moderates like Biden) in an actual general-election contest is if there were an improbable “youth turnout surge” — which they estimate at “11 percentage points.”
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Mar 6, 2020 16:20
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Mar 7, 2020 08:15
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Thought that was the wizard school map for a second: https://twitter.com/Devon_OnEarth/status/1234229657702207490?s=19 What continent is the green area north of the MIDDLE EAST supposed to be?
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Mar 7, 2020 09:47
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SerialKilldeer posted:Thought that was the wizard school map for a second: What's wrong with Uagadou? Burkina Faso has a capital named Ouagadougou; I assume it's a similar etymology.
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Mar 7, 2020 11:14
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SerialKilldeer posted:Thought that was the wizard school map for a second: What are the odds that some brexiter has used this map as an argument along the lines of “look, the UK (and Ireland, somehow) matters on a global scale; we’ve got our own wizard school and all.” Also, let’s lump Belgium and the Netherlands in with the Latin ones instead of the Germanic and Indo-European ones klafbang has a new favorite as of 11:23 on Mar 7, 2020 |
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Mar 7, 2020 11:20
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SerialKilldeer posted:Thought that was the wizard school map for a second: the Japan/Korea one is just the words for "magic" and "place"
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Mar 7, 2020 11:23
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Haschel Cedricson posted:What's wrong with Uagadou? Burkina Faso has a capital named Ouagadougou; I assume it's a similar etymology. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=POv-3yIPSWc
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Mar 7, 2020 11:51
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Haschel Cedricson posted:What's wrong with Uagadou? Burkina Faso has a capital named Ouagadougou; I assume it's a similar etymology.
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Mar 7, 2020 13:09
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The Portuguese one is just "witch castle". 
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Mar 7, 2020 13:30
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Italy and Greece just don't go to magic school?
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Mar 7, 2020 13:51
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I don't understand, Scholomance is already a thing you could co-opt, why not just take the laziest possible way out like the rest of the things JKR has done?
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Mar 7, 2020 14:02
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Haschel Cedricson posted:What's wrong with Uagadou? Burkina Faso has a capital named Ouagadougou; I assume it's a similar etymology. That spelling comes from the French colonial era, which I guess is the same thing for the Americas. Does this mean that the wizard schools are post-colonial ? Am I putting more thought into this than they did? From what I can find Ouagadougou doesn't have any link with magic, which the other foreign language words have. It feels very  .
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Mar 7, 2020 14:05
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Fathis Munk posted:That spelling comes from the French colonial era, which I guess is the same thing for the Americas. Does this mean that the wizard schools are post-colonial ? Am I putting more thought into this than they did? Y’all are arguing about the etymology of a place named flippantly by someone who thought the only character of Asian descent should be named Cho Chang.
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Mar 7, 2020 15:55
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HardDiskD posted:The Portuguese one is just "witch castle". As in, a castle that is itself a witch.
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Mar 7, 2020 15:56
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Fathis Munk posted:Am I putting more thought into this than they did? It's JK Rowling, so the answer is always yes.
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Mar 7, 2020 15:58
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HardDiskD posted:The Portuguese one is just "witch castle". Like a magic architectural transformer? That'd be pretty cool, but is probably not what Rowling intended.
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Mar 7, 2020 17:37
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Grassy Knowles posted:Y’all are arguing about the etymology of a place named flippantly by someone who thought the only character of Asian descent should be named Cho Chang. It's mindboggling to me that people have invested so much of their identity into this stupid book series by one British author. At least with, I don't know, Buffy you could point to a variety of people who've worked on it throughout its run, and even then, come on, just get a more diverse set of touchstones or something.
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Mar 7, 2020 17:41
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SerialKilldeer posted:Like a magic architectural transformer? That'd be pretty cool, but is probably not what Rowling intended. Missed opportunity to call it Alexander
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Mar 7, 2020 17:49
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SerialKilldeer posted:Like a magic architectural transformer? That'd be pretty cool, but is probably not what Rowling intended. Sounds like a tingler to me. "Eaten right by my sexy school who is also a witch castle" or something like that.
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Mar 7, 2020 20:19
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SerialKilldeer posted:Like a magic architectural transformer? That'd be pretty cool, but is probably not what Rowling intended. Rowl’s Moving Castle
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Mar 7, 2020 23:27
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https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/1235865328074153986 Awful graph? It’s at least chaotic good.
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Mar 8, 2020 12:33
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