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seiferguy posted:Did the remake fix any of this, or is it just a re-skin of the entire old game? it's a re-skin of the entire old game
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Mar 7, 2020 21:50
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Super Jay Mann posted:Frankly SoM is about 2-3 steps away from being an unplayable mess, which makes sense given its troubled development. I don't think it's a very good game at all, but of course some will embrace its jank and idiosyncrasies more than others, As somebody who loved Final Fantasy Adventure (it was my third Gameboy game after Mario and Tetris, which I believe came with the console, it was also my third video game, period), I quite liked playing SoM. About twice. But it has basically no replay value. You have the same three party members, who you can tinker a bit around in regards to their preferred weapons. But they always get the same magic every time, the route remains the same (except for one very small branching path very early in the story), etc. I have some nostalgia for it, and the music remains pretty good to this day, but I've replayed it as an adult once more, and I have no desire to return to it. It's an important part of the series, but that's it. SD3 is soooo much better in nearly every way. You can choose between 6 party members, they have divergent promotion paths, three different story paths (or 6, if you count the first few hours), and the music is even better than SoM. And the remoke looks so great, I'm very excited for it. My reaction to hearing that they were making a Secret of Mana remake was "meh".
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Mar 7, 2020 22:59
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i will die for secret of mana but it's all, completely, because of nostalgia
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Mar 8, 2020 00:38
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I've probably said this hot take before but Secret of Mana remake is better than the original in almost every way and the only reason people decry it is because without their nostalgia clouding their judgment they're able to see the not-very-good game for what it actually is.
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Mar 8, 2020 00:44
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I would have been perfectly happy with a graphics update and fixing the bugs. I'm legitimately hyped now. I may actually not wait for a sale for this like I initially intended.
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Mar 8, 2020 03:12
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Alxprit posted:I've probably said this hot take before but Secret of Mana remake is better than the original in almost every way and the only reason people decry it is because without their nostalgia clouding their judgment they're able to see the not-very-good game for what it actually is. What does it actually improve? I was under the impression it was extremely faithful, just uglier.
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Mar 8, 2020 08:15
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EDIT: Huh, Remote Play lets you play 3-player. Nevermind!
Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Mar 8, 2020 |
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Mar 8, 2020 08:38
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The SoM remake is okay overall but I'll admit I have massive nostalgia since the original was my favorite game growing up. They clean up the translation some and bring it in line with other recent Mana games/rereleases, but it's still very much missing the chunks that got yanked during development. They also updated the world map so you can see other settlements you don't visit! Tasnica had other towns on the archipelago for instance. The voice acting isn't great except for the sprite imo. I liked the inn scenes, makes it pretty clear you've got a bunch of kids that are generally way in over their head.
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Mar 8, 2020 08:45
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The biggest issues with SoM: - the ungodly amount of time it takes to grind magic, to a lesser extent, weapons. - combat is repetitive, holding down an attack button to charge only for you to whiff because you didn’t quite hit an undefined hitbox is annoying as heck. - your allies getting stuck by walls. All the time. And you can’t continue till they clear the wall. Thank god Trials fixed this. - the aforementioned second half being incomplete. The only thing Secret does better than Trials is magic casting, Trials stopping combat for the spell to go off kind of gets annoying after awhile. Despite all its issues, Secret of Mana still was one of the first games that did co-op adventure RPG right and I love it for that. Oh, I just did a play through and got to the mana holy land then my save got corrupted because I saved in a bad spot (Neko’s in the ice land) 
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Mar 8, 2020 08:54
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Irony.or.Death posted:What does it actually improve? I was under the impression it was extremely faithful, just uglier. Not being able to move forward because your dumb allies are running repeatedly into a wall is an original version sin I wouldn't wish on anyone. Also running is actually running and doesn't completely exhaust your stamina for attacks, like how it is in Secret of Evermore but even better and tighter. Also the extra inn scenes are extremely adorable.
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Mar 8, 2020 15:12
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seiferguy posted:The only thing Secret does better than Trials is magic casting, Trials stopping combat for the spell to go off kind of gets annoying after awhile. Man, you can say that again. Playing with Angela was seriously tedious IIRC. Do we know if the nuke/summon spell animations are becoming less disruptive in the remake?
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Mar 8, 2020 21:02
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cirus posted:Wow I was afraid they would just upgrade the graphics but the music and new gameplay elements look amazing! One of the big problems with the original is that some classes are just way better than others. Looks like they're fixing that! This was from a few days ago, but I thought class balance was actually very good, overall. Which classes did you think suffered? I certainly haven't played every class, but even the bad ones, like Duran's paladin, still have a lot to contribute (healing and a tier 3 full screen tech) to a well built team. For example, taken individually, vanadis looks bad and wanderer looks bad, but vanadis and wanderer together instantly kill every enemy except for bosses almost before they can even move. There are certainly balance problems in the game, like Kevin's tier-1 tech being far more powerful than it has any right to be, but I think every final class can do really well if it's used in the right team. Some of the tier 2 classes are clearly worse, though. Wanderer, for example, is one of my favorite designs, thematically and practically, in any class based system, but ranger is just miserable compared to ninja. Actually, the bugs in the original mostly helped game balance. Duran's light classes got screwed, but Hawk and Kevin were already on the edge of overpowered, and if things like critical hits, dex and energy ball worked, they would be insane. Magitek posted:Man, you can say that again. Playing with Angela was seriously tedious IIRC. Do we know if the nuke/summon spell animations are becoming less disruptive in the remake? I seriously hope so, magic was so much more of a pain to use than attacking that my casters always performed way below their potential.
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Mar 9, 2020 03:22
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I remember Secret feeling like a repetitive grind after a bit. That, and whatever magic trick you use to defeat the final boss (cast some spell on the boy’s sword?), I couldn’t get it to work. I was playing emulated, no clue if that was a factor. I beat that game by using a game genie code that auto killed all the enemies. gently caress you, Square, you didn’t finish your game right, neither will I. Secret of Mana is so beautiful though. The pixel art is just aesthetically perfect. That remake looks like warm generic anime garbage and should feel bad about it.
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Mar 9, 2020 03:57
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Bean posted:I remember Secret feeling like a repetitive grind after a bit. That, and whatever magic trick you use to defeat the final boss (cast some spell on the boy’s sword?), I couldn’t get it to work. I was playing emulated, no clue if that was a factor. I beat that game by using a game genie code that auto killed all the enemies. gently caress you, Square, you didn’t finish your game right, neither will I. You gotta have the girl and Sprite cast mana magic on him to unlock the Mana Sword. It's a dryad spell and most people don't level dryad up long enough to make the spell last awhile.
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Mar 9, 2020 04:13
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Heithinn Grasida posted:This was from a few days ago, but I thought class balance was actually very good, overall. Which classes did you think suffered? I certainly haven't played every class, but even the bad ones, like Duran's paladin, still have a lot to contribute (healing and a tier 3 full screen tech) to a well built team. For example, taken individually, vanadis looks bad and wanderer looks bad, but vanadis and wanderer together instantly kill every enemy except for bosses almost before they can even move. There are certainly balance problems in the game, like Kevin's tier-1 tech being far more powerful than it has any right to be, but I think every final class can do really well if it's used in the right team. Some of the tier 2 classes are clearly worse, though. Wanderer, for example, is one of my favorite designs, thematically and practically, in any class based system, but ranger is just miserable compared to ninja. Wanderer I believe also has a spell that deals about the same damage as Angela's Lv. 3 spells for practically no MP cost. (Just so long as you, you know, don't cast it on undead creatures.) Generally, I feel Hawkeye's Light class, and Carlie's Dark class straight up trades midgame power in exchange for lategame power (AKA when you class change to your final class).
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Mar 9, 2020 08:01
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I was a dumb kid who didn't realise you had the mana spell so I instead beat the last boss in a stupid war of attrition involving light and moon sabre spells instead. It must have taken me like an hour, and when I found out years later the proper way to beat the game I felt like it was dumb and cheating.
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Mar 9, 2020 08:51
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Folt The Bolt posted:Wanderer I believe also has a spell that deals about the same damage as Angela's Lv. 3 spells for practically no MP cost. (Just so long as you, you know, don't cast it on undead creatures.) I think that must be rogue, which is attack spell oriented class for Hawkeye. I've never actually played that one, though, so I can't say how good the spells are. Wanderer has very limited damage options, though lunatic is great against bosses. The main draw is aura wave, lunatic, effectively unlimited MP, and a big bag of fun, if not extremely effective tricks. I guess there's half vanish, too, for damage, but it doesn't work on bosses and sleep flower or aura wave seem like better tools against regular enemies. I would agree light Hawkeye and dark Carlie trade midgame for lategame power, but it's a lovely trade. Their final light and dark classes respectively are also no jokes. In fact, even though it's worlds better than ranger except in a few team compositions, wanderer is still also almost certainly Hawkeye's weakest class. And the final class change comes so late that the trade really doesn't seem worth it at all. I wonder how important healing will be in the remake. It would be kind of fun to go for an all out offensive party if you could manage without healing.
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Mar 9, 2020 09:10
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Heithinn Grasida posted:I think that must be rogue, which is attack spell oriented class for Hawkeye. I've never actually played that one, though, so I can't say how good the spells are. Wanderer has very limited damage options, though lunatic is great against bosses. The main draw is aura wave, lunatic, effectively unlimited MP, and a big bag of fun, if not extremely effective tricks. I guess there's half vanish, too, for damage, but it doesn't work on bosses and sleep flower or aura wave seem like better tools against regular enemies. No. It's wanderer. Poison Bubble has the same power as Angela's Lv. 3s so it will do some decent magic damage even accounting for Hawkeye's much lower Intelligence. It's practically infinite magic damage so long as you're not using it on undead enemies. Rogue gets something similiar though that keys off of Hawkeye's naturally higher Agility stat despite it's much lower base damage. (And alongside spells that are more natural fits for a single-target casting DPSer.) Also, I'd argue the tradeoff is worth it in Dark Charlotte's case because her Dark/Light and Dark/Dark classes pack one hell of a punch.
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Mar 9, 2020 09:43
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I thought Hawkeye’s trap spells ran off of his AGL stat, which was why he’s the only character for whom that stat matters?
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Mar 9, 2020 12:01
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:I thought Hawkeye’s trap spells ran off of his AGL stat, which was why he’s the only character for whom that stat matters? You're not wrong? Hawkeye's trap spells, Rogue spells, Shuriken, and Nightblade spells keys off of Agility. The rest of his attack spells keys off of Intelligence though.
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Mar 9, 2020 15:22
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Sort of wish a fan romhack would take shape to fill in the missing content in SoM and fix some of the bigger bugs. A remake in generic anime 3D just doesn't hit the same way. 
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Mar 10, 2020 07:17
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Folt The Bolt posted:You're not wrong? Hawkeye's trap spells, Rogue spells, Shuriken, and Nightblade spells keys off of Agility. The rest of his attack spells keys off of Intelligence though. So poison bubble isn’t any of those I guess? I was confused by that post.
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Mar 10, 2020 11:38
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Brosnan posted:Sort of wish a fan romhack would take shape to fill in the missing content in SoM and fix some of the bigger bugs. A remake in generic anime 3D just doesn't hit the same way. I wouldn’t be suprised if there already is one in Japanese, but a lot of patches generally don’t play nice with translat patches
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Mar 10, 2020 11:49
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:So poison bubble isn’t any of those I guess? I was confused by that post. Poison Bubble keys off of Intelligence, which is one of Wanderer's weaker stats, but it's base damage without making use of a stat is as good as Angela's Lv. 3 spells. Since it also heals MP based on the damage it does (so long as the target isn't undead), Hawkeye essentially has a source of infinite magic damage (and is also able to liberally cast his buffs should he need to do so) with a decent baseline.
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Mar 10, 2020 12:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p29PSJEdjpc Warning: there's commentary
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Mar 10, 2020 15:26
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Gyoru posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p29PSJEdjpc Putting points into Angela's Strength for emphasis on fire magic  This is so fuckin' wild, what the hell.
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Mar 10, 2020 15:44
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Kyrosiris posted:Putting points into Angela's Strength for emphasis on fire magic Putting points into her stamina as well to emphasize Earth magic is also neat. Now, to figure out which ones of Int and Spirit are for Ice and Wind magic. EDIT: Also, the big take from this is that it's seemingly confirmed that we're expected to class change into our final classes by the time we're taking down the Benevodons which owns!
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Mar 10, 2020 15:51
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Folt The Bolt posted:EDIT: Also, the big take from this is that it's seemingly confirmed that we're expected to class change into our final classes by the time we're taking down the Benevodons which owns! That and holy poo poo actual boss mechanics!!!  The attack telegraphs also look very good in motion. Combat rolling out of the Mama Poto Lucent Beams was so radical, what the gently caress. Thank god for New Horizons giving me something to distract myself with until Trials comes out. Now all I need to see is the Dangaard fight. I hope it's rad as hell. 
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Mar 10, 2020 15:59
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Yeah, this looks like just about the best remake of a game ever made. Holy poo poo I'm so excited. Stat allocation was super brainless in SD3, this is much better. Every bit of information coming out only makes Trials of Mana look better, I can hardly believe how good everything looks.
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Mar 10, 2020 16:02
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Torrannor posted:Yeah, this looks like just about the best remake of a game ever made. Holy poo poo I'm so excited. Stat allocation was super brainless in SD3, this is much better. Every bit of information coming out only makes Trials of Mana look better, I can hardly believe how good everything looks. p much came to say exactly this word for word But just to contribute, I want to comment on the music. Virtually every track I've heard from this game is an exact 1 to 1 transcription (as opposed to an arrangement) of its Super Famicom counterpart. Just to back that claim up, I was way into SD3 right around the same time I learned about music notation and arrangement with MIDI back in the day, so I would literally pick the SD3 soundtrack apart, track by track, instrument by instrument, and recreate them in MIDI using music notation software. (some of my work even still exists on vgmusic.com and this was like 20 years ago  ) I'm 99% sure that this soundtrack is using the exact same files from the original, just with an updated synth library. And personally that's, like, best case scenario for me.I'm sure there are a few tracks with extra stuff added but yeah, the soundtrack so far that I've heard has been extremely faithful. This is in comparison to the SoM remake, where they let a gaggle of composers divide and conquer, making arrangements of a few songs each with WILDLY mixed results. This approach seems like it'll be much better
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Mar 10, 2020 16:12
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I'm happy Angela will be useful for once. I'm in the midst of a playthrough using Angela, Kevin and Hawk and her damage output is... really bad. Use a claw on Kevin to give him an x saber, and in beast form his 2 hits do more damage than one of her spells that the boss is weak to.
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Mar 10, 2020 18:24
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I definitely wasn't expecting FF14-style attack telegraphs
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Mar 10, 2020 18:49
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If you're gonna steal, steal from the best.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:11
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Melomane Mallet posted:If you're gonna steal, steal from the best. Ain't even stealing if it's your own property. 
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Mar 10, 2020 19:14
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Didn't Legend of Mana have attack telegraphs?
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Mar 10, 2020 19:15
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This looks so cool and I don't want to see anymore so I can be as unspoiled as I can be. I'm super hyped for this now.
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Mar 10, 2020 22:16
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Phantasium posted:Didn't Legend of Mana have attack telegraphs? Magic was telegraphed but special moves were not.
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Mar 10, 2020 23:16
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dude789 posted:Magic was telegraphed but special moves were not. thaaaaat's right. that's why I kept doubting myself, because it wasn't everything.
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Mar 11, 2020 00:54
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How has Legend of Mana aged? It definitely had its personality but the lack of a strong plot kind of turned me away from replaying the game.
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Mar 11, 2020 02:46
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seiferguy posted:How has Legend of Mana aged? It definitely had its personality but the lack of a strong plot kind of turned me away from replaying the game. It continues to be super weird, incredibly charming, and mechanically certifiable.
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Mar 11, 2020 02:52
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