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ICR
Dec 31, 2008

Aesis posted:

Season 1 starts in 1 day, make sure to claim your FREE Season Pass! Menu -> Store -> Add-ons -> Highlight 'Season 1 Pass' and claim!



Is this one of those things where if you don’t claim it, you don’t get it (for expansion holders)? I ask only because I want to make sure everybody knows this is critical and/or has a deadline.

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Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Aesis posted:

Season 1 starts in 1 day, make sure to claim your FREE Season Pass! Menu -> Store -> Add-ons -> Highlight 'Season 1 Pass' and claim!



I don’t seem to have this on my PS4.

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010

lagidnam posted:

The new legendary missions are about what could be expected.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyfNzJrQotc

80 minutes of holding down left mouse button and kiting poo poo through half the level as it doesn' t die. The rewards are more or less equal to what you get from grand washington hotel on challenging.

lol the 2 marauder drones at the very end. You wouldn't be able to do anything to them if they weren't able to just stay in the scaffolding.

MREBoy
Mar 14, 2005

MREs - They're whats for breakfast, lunch AND dinner !
Noticed the following while in the clan room in Haven - apparently Pi Hard is #916 in the game for Clan XP out of ~89.4k listed clans with ~6.8 billion points. For comparisons the Top 100 starts at 15.4 B, Top 10 starts at 25.46 B and #1 is 53.4 B. Also out of that 89.4k total clans only 9148 or so are above 1.00 billion points. That puts us inside the top 1/10th percent of the list if I did my math right :eyepop:

jabro
Mar 25, 2003

July Mock Draft 2014

1st PLACE
RUNNER-UP
got the knowshon


Hakarne posted:

I spent all day farming Bank on challenging to get a Pestilence. I never saw one drop for me or the pubbies I was with.

You go to hell. You go to hell and you die

I finally got tired of farming for Bullet King so I went to the bank to try and get a Stoner. First drop was a Pestilence. I placed it next to my other one.

BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000

Coming from the first game I like how they got even more bonkers with how the different gangs have different variations on their weapons and tactics.

Like holy poo poo, the Outcast drone operators send Battle Bots at you :allears:

Peechka
Nov 10, 2005

UnknownMercenary posted:

The TTK problem is twofold, really. To do an appreciable damage as a DPS build, you basically need to focus entirely on red cores and stack headshot, crit chance and crit damage. We've come entirely full circle back to the launch meta. Of course, with enemy damage also tuned up, it basically means you're made of paper and 1 or 2 stray hits is enough to put you down.

Then there's also group scaling, which is wildly out of tune. With a tank using bulwark shield and 3 DPS focused players, 4 player challenging is still kind of a slog but doable. 4 player Heroic becomes loving obnoxiously silly when you're just emptying belt after belt from an LMG into an yellow bar foot soldier while they walk up to you with their sideways held SMG and loving blast you in 1 hit.

Defense thing does not really matter either. I tried to stack armor and health and it does nothing. The only thing I found that remotely helps survivability is the "unbreakable" on your chest piece which restores your armor once per min and the shield. Once you get to the higher tiers like challenging+ almost everything one shots you regardless.

Its also weapon balance out of whack too. Since most weapons do mostly sameish DPS its all about that sustained DPS in PvE which LMG wins out. I run 2 fast firing LMG with gunner big pouch and my best mission so far has been 1.3B dmg on challenging. Would be even better if I had a faster reload. But I pump out 350 shots dealing somewhere between 200-400k each depending on crit and headshot before reload and im far from being fully optimized. Actually my stuff still is suffering since the RNG gods have not been kind.

Peechka fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Mar 9, 2020

Estel
May 4, 2010
I've been using an upgraded Hardwire build with the Stinger hive and the cluster seekers and it's working fine on challenging. I'm soloing CP3s easily.

Doesn't seem much but every % you can add to your equipment is really useful

X13Fen
Oct 18, 2006

"Is that an accurate quote? It should be.
I think about it often enough."
It's great fun taking your (pre-WONY) build to boost a mate up the world tiers. Just using the bulwark shield and a pistol, I consistently did about 10m more damage and got twice as many kills. Much fun

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

A Buff Gay Dude posted:

There’s 4 difficulties and a full recall station and paragon point system they just added, anyone who is complaining about a difficult above hard right now should absolutely shut the gently caress up and Log Off

God drat, I'm glad it's not just me. I thought it'd be better here than on reddit but... nope!

For all the people complaining about enemies being sponges, or getting absolutely hosed. You're not ready for Challenging, and definitely not Heroic. Every little percentage difference is actually a massive boost to your character.

At the moment I'm not even running a build. It's just a combination of skill/defense/damage. I'm using the Technician purely cause I'm leveling it up. One of the big things which have boosted my effectiveness is the max roll for damage on my gloves, having a pair of named knee-pads which give a maxed roll for out of cover damage. Along with an extra damage for status effected enemies backpack, and a Pointman chest(makes the shield invulnerable for 5 seconds when pulled out with a 20 seconds cooldown, also a big buff to ally armor). An AR with a strong damage roll, and the talent which boosts the damage for every 10% of the mag gone. A Stoner LMG with decent rolls that I slapped Steady Handed onto, so that I'll basically never run out of ammo on tough enemies.

All of this while using the cluster seekers and a crusader shield, with 4 skill (3+1 from Technician) and 6 skill for my shield due to my skill and defense comboing. I don't really have a "build" it's all just mashed together, but the couple of Challenging Bounties I've been pointed to I have handled. Not easily no, but I handled them.

This is coming from someone that came back and pushed to WT5 prior to the expansion launching. Where everything felt so easy, I barely needed to pay attention to the difficulty. People got so used to that, that now they're freaking out when they can't jump from Story to Challenging right away.

Estel posted:

I've been using an upgraded Hardwire build with the Stinger hive and the cluster seekers and it's working fine on challenging. I'm soloing CP3s easily.

Doesn't seem much but every % you can add to your equipment is really useful

Yeah, this. I'm also wanting to get a Hardwired build going. There's been so many different ideas I've seen people effectively pull off in videos. One guy made a build where you actually use the Demolitionist mortar turret while wielding a full shield. Drawing enemy fire while just destroying everything with mortar shots. And for the people that would like to just shoot things, other guys have made videos about focusing everything 100% on damage while using Glass Cannon and relying entirely on good gameplay to stay alive. It sounded like the dude in the video was happy to be using cover in the cover shooter again.

Arthil fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Mar 9, 2020

Roman
Aug 8, 2002

They released a survey looking for WONY feedback

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/3MNZTX6

Morter
Jul 1, 2006

:coolspot:
Seashells by the
Seashorpheus
So unlike the experts above, I got my rear end handed to me on a normal bounty (on Global Hard) because the medics and the several lieutenants/health boosters congregated in one area that I myself couldn't penetrate: they all bundled into the same area with enemies out flanking me so I couldn't easily do a frontal assault. At one point, they even revived the bounty target, who I had obviously already killed. This ended up in a weird thing where I died, revived, and then got a "failed" sound while getting a Bounty Completed pop up (at the end of the video).

I think they're gonna have to fix that--likely by making the bounty target un-revivable or something?

And for the record, the bounty IS marked as complete. I did get specialization points for it too, just no beating-the-mission loot rewards.

Estel
May 4, 2010
With how much damage mobs do now if you are flanked you are already dead. Never get flanked, if you have to fall back to prevent it do it.

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002


Estel posted:

With how much damage mobs do now if you are flanked you are already dead. Never get flanked, if you have to fall back to prevent it do it.

Yeah I play solo challenging and every engagement is me looking at where to start the fight and knowing what my 2-3 fallback spots are. Pestilence does real work on most groups though. If you can fill a max stack on an elite then kill it the DOT will destroy all red/blues.

Morter
Jul 1, 2006

:coolspot:
Seashells by the
Seashorpheus

Estel posted:

With how much damage mobs do now if you are flanked you are already dead. Never get flanked, if you have to fall back to prevent it do it.

Not for lack of trying, my dude. They were in an open area and had gathered at the spawn point which had high ground and support station RIGHT ON IT. There were always like 6 people there, 2 of which were lieutenants and one of which kept throwing drones at me. I had gone around back to try and stem the tide and take out people at the farther end but people followed me there and I did keep getting flanked. That's why I tried bum-rushing that point. These were black tusk people, even on Normal (Global Hard might've boosted it), they were brutal.

Edit: Also why does every other NY bounty seem to have a named bad guy OTHER Than my target?

Edit 2: My next bounty had rogue agents. :negative:

Morter fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Mar 9, 2020

UnknownMercenary
Nov 1, 2011

I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD


Arthil posted:

God drat, I'm glad it's not just me. I thought it'd be better here than on reddit but... nope!

For all the people complaining about enemies being sponges, or getting absolutely hosed. You're not ready for Challenging, and definitely not Heroic. Every little percentage difference is actually a massive boost to your character.

At the moment I'm not even running a build. It's just a combination of skill/defense/damage. I'm using the Technician purely cause I'm leveling it up. One of the big things which have boosted my effectiveness is the max roll for damage on my gloves, having a pair of named knee-pads which give a maxed roll for out of cover damage. Along with an extra damage for status effected enemies backpack, and a Pointman chest(makes the shield invulnerable for 5 seconds when pulled out with a 20 seconds cooldown, also a big buff to ally armor). An AR with a strong damage roll, and the talent which boosts the damage for every 10% of the mag gone. A Stoner LMG with decent rolls that I slapped Steady Handed onto, so that I'll basically never run out of ammo on tough enemies.

All of this while using the cluster seekers and a crusader shield, with 4 skill (3+1 from Technician) and 6 skill for my shield due to my skill and defense comboing. I don't really have a "build" it's all just mashed together, but the couple of Challenging Bounties I've been pointed to I have handled. Not easily no, but I handled them.

This is coming from someone that came back and pushed to WT5 prior to the expansion launching. Where everything felt so easy, I barely needed to pay attention to the difficulty. People got so used to that, that now they're freaking out when they can't jump from Story to Challenging right away.


Yeah, this. I'm also wanting to get a Hardwired build going. There's been so many different ideas I've seen people effectively pull off in videos. One guy made a build where you actually use the Demolitionist mortar turret while wielding a full shield. Drawing enemy fire while just destroying everything with mortar shots. And for the people that would like to just shoot things, other guys have made videos about focusing everything 100% on damage while using Glass Cannon and relying entirely on good gameplay to stay alive. It sounded like the dude in the video was happy to be using cover in the cover shooter again.

I wasn't jumping directly into Challenging on day 1, I spent time grinding on Hard and in the DZ before moving up in difficulty. After a week I already have max damage rolls on every piece except the backpack, which only has 8% because I needed to recalibrate the talent. I'm already at 53% crit chance and my 50ish crit damage is made up for with Strained on my main gun, which adds another 50% crit damage after firing for a few seconds. I already have 108% LMG damage (83% from red cores, 15% from spec and 10% from a Petrov piece) and it seems silly to me to be expected to have the other 7% from a maxed out backpack and potentially 10% more from who knows how many SHD levels for enemies to not feel spongy.

I've played almost non-stop since launch and only put the game down once they made it clear a gear reset is coming so I already know all about how to trick the AI and flank them but it's not exactly an option in every case, especially when basic red bar grunts can still double tap you. Let me give an example: there's a small room in District Union Arena with 2 EMP nodes and a door at the back that spawns multiple waves. I can't flush them out with skills because of the EMP (nevermind that even with 100% disrupt resistance, most skills still immediately die to EMP after being deployed). My signature weapon is can't do the job because enemy health quickly outpaces the damage it can do. There is no way to flank around because it's literally just a small room with some barriers and two EMP nodes behind them and the spawn door in the back. What I ended up doing was slowly funnelling every enemy through the doorway that led to the previous room and play peek-a-boo with them and try to burst them down fast enough before they ran back to the enemy healing station, until eventually all that was left was the support station healer and a grenade shooting warhound, which thankfully could not do anything because of the low ceiling in the room.

Morter posted:

So unlike the experts above, I got my rear end handed to me on a normal bounty (on Global Hard) because the medics and the several lieutenants/health boosters congregated in one area that I myself couldn't penetrate: they all bundled into the same area with enemies out flanking me so I couldn't easily do a frontal assault. At one point, they even revived the bounty target, who I had obviously already killed. This ended up in a weird thing where I died, revived, and then got a "failed" sound while getting a Bounty Completed pop up (at the end of the video).

I think they're gonna have to fix that--likely by making the bounty target un-revivable or something?

And for the record, the bounty IS marked as complete. I did get specialization points for it too, just no beating-the-mission loot rewards.



I'm 99% sure the game will bring up the difficulty for activities if they spawn lower than your global difficulty. After all, you can't select a mission on normal or hard if your global difficulty is set to challenging. The only exception seems to be story difficulty.

Any elite medics or support station guys are a total pain now; worse when they're named enemies. I had a CP4 take 45 minutes because the last named enemy was a medic and I'd already run out of ammo for multiple weapons by the time they arrived and then started reviving everybody.

Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?

Arthil posted:

People got so used to that, that now they're freaking out when they can't jump from Story to Challenging right away.

This is hyperbole. There's nothing wrong with going normal to hard to challenging as long as there is tangible progress. If that progress is to grind several thousand hours on Hard because Challenging "requires you have godrolls" (it doesn't, but that's the tweet) then that's not what I'm into. All of the current bullshit will be patched out, just like it has multiple times before, but that doesn't mean it's not pretty annoying to play right now.

quote:

I'm also wanting to get a Hardwired build going.

PSA on Hardwired builds - don't make them yet. Hardwired has a chest and backpack talent that make the build work and they are both currently broken. What you want to do instead is: 2x Hana-U, 3x China, 1x Wyvern. Make sure you get the yellow slots in the mask/chest/backpack. Roll skill damage and skill haste on everything. Skilled on the chest is required, Shock and Awe on the backpack is encouraged but I haven't managed it yet. :/

I'm ~11% off optimal haste and a laughable ~28% off optimal damage, but it goes much faster than a Hardwired set and doesn't suffer from all the wacky bugs. Fully optimized you're looking at sub-20-second seekers and once Shock and Awe procs you'll be hitting for over 3m. I'll never get to that point, but even as is it is good enough for Challenging open world stuff as long as you're willing to kite for 20 minutes.

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002


If they’re not going to let me recalibrate exotics then let me use exotic components to re-roll the loving thing

Estel
May 4, 2010

Mailer posted:

PSA on Hardwired builds - don't make them yet. Hardwired has a chest and backpack talent that make the build work and they are both currently broken. What you want to do instead is: 2x Hana-U, 3x China, 1x Wyvern. Make sure you get the yellow slots in the mask/chest/backpack. Roll skill damage and skill haste on everything. Skilled on the chest is required, Shock and Awe on the backpack is encouraged but I haven't managed it yet. :/

I'm ~11% off optimal haste and a laughable ~28% off optimal damage, but it goes much faster than a Hardwired set and doesn't suffer from all the wacky bugs. Fully optimized you're looking at sub-20-second seekers and once Shock and Awe procs you'll be hitting for over 3m. I'll never get to that point, but even as is it is good enough for Challenging open world stuff as long as you're willing to kite for 20 minutes.

I haven't noticed the bugs but maybe is because i'm using the hive to kill things and only use the seekers to force the mobs to move out of cover.

Aesis
Oct 9, 2012
Filthy J4G

IllegallySober posted:

I don’t seem to have this on my PS4.

Idk about PS4, sorry.

ICR posted:

Is this one of those things where if you don’t claim it, you don’t get it (for expansion holders)? I ask only because I want to make sure everybody knows this is critical and/or has a deadline.

Idk about deadline, but I doubt you get extra loot off season pass unless you claim this.

kxZyle
Nov 7, 2012

Pillbug
still waiting for people who refuse to admit there's a balance problem to come up with anything other than a variation on "git gud" or "I personally have no problems :smug:" as a reason

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug
Fixed my weird hitching problems- it turns out my performance monitoring software was randomly gobbling up all my CPU intermittently. Game runs super smooth again. Maybe now I can beat the last mission of the expansion. That level feels really hard once you actually get to the island.

Peechka
Nov 10, 2005

kxZyle posted:

still waiting for people who refuse to admit there's a balance problem to come up with anything other than a variation on "git gud" or "I personally have no problems :smug:" as a reason

Im not a Div 2 expert by any means, but ive spent about 300 hours combined with this new NY thing and Div 2 at launch and right now SHD lv65 so I know a little bit about the game. Ive also played a ton of other games, and yeah youre right, this poo poo is not fun. Challenging+ is way out of whack and its just not fun to play. Its more of a tedious slog. You should be having fun playing video games not getting frustrated.

bamhand
Apr 15, 2010
I breezed through some hard invasion missions and then hit the bank mission. Holy gently caress that last fight. Mortar flinging robot that takes 2 crossbow hits to kill and 2x tanks + a named sniper to fight at the same time. Tried about a dozen times and just gave up. Is there a good way to kill tanks? I couldn't kill them fast enough before they reached me and there's not anywhere to retreat to.

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002


Named bosses having SHD tech is super hosed up. I expected that from rogue agents, not true sons and poo poo.

Diephoon
Aug 24, 2003

LOL

Nap Ghost

Morter posted:

Edit 2: My next bounty had rogue agents. :negative:

I've only had two encounters so far, one where I answered a backup request vs 2 rogues at a CP. Wasn't hard to handle, not sure what level the CP was but I think the host's world was set to hard global difficulty.

The second time was with two other discord goons on challenging roosevelt island. Four rogues appeared and the amount of skill spam was incredible. It was a barrage of turrets, fireflies, and grenades. They were also insanely tanky. I think we had one player with a skill build, one in a shield/cc build, and I was running true patriot w/pestilence. Maybe we just needed to focus fire better, but we didn't manage to down one before getting overwhelmed. Part of the issue was one of the player's was downed and their body moved while we were reviving him (lag?).

I'm starting to consider running Jammer pulse full time. Even if you're not fighting robots it still functions as an aoe stagger on a fairly short cooldown, and I'm pretty sure the EMP status effect procs hollow point bullets for the ongoing directive set. I have a named mask that gives 100% pulse skill haste, but it doesn't work :(

Roman
Aug 8, 2002

I preferred the robodogs' death EMP to them running around everywhere at 500 miles an hour.

And I still insist that the player's "attacks leave you with 1 point of HP so you don't get one shotted and have some time to get to cover" is also applying to the NPCs. There's just way too many times where I get them to a sliver, sometimes very quickly, and suddenly that sliver will just not go away no matter what.

Peechka
Nov 10, 2005
Ive ran into rogues 3 times in challenging while doing PUG missions, all 3 times it was a full and fast team wipe. I dont think anyone managed to even down one.

Roman posted:

And I still insist that the player's "attacks leave you with 1 point of HP so you don't get one shotted and have some time to get to cover" is also applying to the NPCs. There's just way too many times where I get them to a sliver, sometimes very quickly, and suddenly that sliver will just not go away no matter what.

Yeah I noticed that as well. Gives them just enough time to duck behind cover too, lol.

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002


Peechka posted:

Ive ran into rogues 3 times in challenging while doing PUG missions, all 3 times it was a full and fast team wipe. I dont think anyone managed to even down one.

Rogues are always “players in mission +1” so they’re always a pain in the rear end. That said there is always a tel when they’re about to show up because whatever scripted pack or NPCs in the mission will be replaced by them so if you hit a point and don’t see the enemies you’re supposed to see get ready for rogues.

Shoren
Apr 6, 2011

victoria concordia crescit
Regarding the difficulty issue, I think that in a coordinated group Challenging is actually pretty well balanced. There are two things that make this work: 1) a dedicated healer and 2) a tank with the Tardigrade exotic chest. The exotic chest is basically a second chance ability that gives you 80% of the wearer's armor as bonus when your armor breaks. The healer's role is obvious, but the Tardigrade chest gives the healer a few more seconds to respond to an ally getting focused without that ally being downed either. Challenging is still tough and you don't have that feeling of being powerful like you did before WONY, but it doesn't feel like being punched in the face repeatedly. I could stand Heroic being as tough as it is in comparison if the rewards were appropriate, but as it stands it's doable though just not worth it, and Legendary even less so (it's basically Destiny Nightfall levels of cheesing every encounter).

I think that for random matchmaking groups where everyone is running whatever they please (i.e. full offensive builds because they see all enemies as bullet sponges) then Challenging just isn't doable. There has to be build diversity in a group in order to beat higher difficulty missions and if that's the intended design then it isn't communicated well enough. That said, I ran a full-defensive True Patriot build with some random groups and managed to come out on top in damage a few times so it's not entirely out of the question to run something besides full offense.

When it comes to solo content, I think that you have to go all-in for offense or skills and it's doable like that because the enemy scaling isn't as bad. I did a few Challenging CPs solo over the weekend and was did just fine with a seeker/sniper turret Hard Wired build (rainy conditions break the sniper turret's target acquisition so avoid using it then). The sniper turret can one-shot reds when you're solo and it appears to bypass armor pieces on tank enemies (dunno if this is a bug or not) so that helps.

All that said, I still think a lot of tuning is needed. Enemy skill deployables need their HP reduced a lot because they dish out too much damage in comparison to how long they take to kill. Remote controlled C4 cars and suicide drones require multiple rounds despite their volatile packages while support stations and rogue turrets get deployed in places that are too compromising to deal with given the damage that enemies put out when you move to deal with them. Similarly, there's hardly a collateral reward for promptly destroying enemy skills because the explosions hardly deal any damage to them (same with causing grenades to drop). Fights like the boss in the Bunker are almost impossible because you need to be in cover to survive but the boss specifically drives you out of cover and you can't use crowd control because tanks aren't affected by fire any more and only the trap works for shock, but it's inconsistent. Others like the final fight in the Invaded Bank are almost impossible because you also can't stay in cover due to all the explosions (airbursts, suicide drones, grenade dogs, and especially the incendiary grenades from the elite mini-tanks).

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002


Solo challenging with Pestilence / all red offense is pretty fun. Find the toughest enemy in a pack and fill a max stack of Plague on it. Once it dies the max plague will kill any red/blue mob unassisted and it’ll keep jumping around and clear a whole room for you.

The only times this fucks up is if it lands on an elite equipment. Yes the plague DOT can pass on the turrets or robots but can’t be refreshed/applied to them so you either kill them in 10 seconds or start another plague on a different enemy. Also there’s something ducky with some enemies like the sniper drones falling through the ground when they did putting themselves out of range from passing the plague.

Morter
Jul 1, 2006

:coolspot:
Seashells by the
Seashorpheus
For all people saying the answer to beating content is to "just use exotics", what's the ideal difficulty/location to play the game and/or farm for them? Because clearly, no one can give advice that doesn't already assume you have All The Gear (but are just incorrectly using it). I imagine people in my position: who are playing a decent amount but are just getting no RNG luck, are sort of stuck playing Normal or struggling through Hard, where loot drops will intrinsically be shittier.

Peechka
Nov 10, 2005
Yeah in pugs on challenging there is also the problem with people jumping the gun into challenging mode far too early too. Ive seen plenty of SHD lv1-10 dudes in challenging not even dishing out 300 mill dmg the entire instance. But when in a group of SHD 20+ its pretty smooth. Also I notice skill builds really help, they dont even have to heal, but just the explosions, effects on enemies and such take them out of cover and out of the fight long enough for the others to focus them down.

Also yesterday I ran onto a dude that did nothing but use the artillery dudes turret mortars, didnt even fire his gun at all I dont think. I dont know if he solely built around this ability or what but the constant barrage of mortars the enemies didnt even know what to do 1/2 the time. It put a smile on my face watching him blast everything constantly.

Noirex
May 30, 2006

Diephoon posted:

I've only had two encounters so far, one where I answered a backup request vs 2 rogues at a CP. Wasn't hard to handle, not sure what level the CP was but I think the host's world was set to hard global difficulty.

The second time was with two other discord goons on challenging roosevelt island. Four rogues appeared and the amount of skill spam was incredible. It was a barrage of turrets, fireflies, and grenades. They were also insanely tanky. I think we had one player with a skill build, one in a shield/cc build, and I was running true patriot w/pestilence. Maybe we just needed to focus fire better, but we didn't manage to down one before getting overwhelmed. Part of the issue was one of the player's was downed and their body moved while we were reviving him (lag?).

The first time I encountered them was after taking over a challenging CP3 where I was about to go open the storage door but it remained locked. I turned around and immediately got hit by multiple turrets. Got revived by the npcs and only managed to kill both by the skin of my teeth bc I happened to be located up higher and the npcs helping were for once, not made out of wet tissue. There's no way they would have been survivable if I met them by myself on the streets. :ohdear:

Roman
Aug 8, 2002

After playing a bunch of stuff on Hard including open world, vs playing Challenging and a couple Heroic bounties, I'd say Challenging+ isn't worth the time investment right now if you just want to farm for exotics. I get decent enough rolls on Hard, even just by opening random boxes.

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002


I feel like loot from boxes aren’t tied to difficulty at all. It almost always seems like trash low rolls.

Estel
May 4, 2010
It's true that there are some things that need to be fixed or tuned but the problem most people are finding when doing challenge difficulty is that before the expansion if you had a decent build you could carry a team of people that shouldn't be doing Challenging missions.

Now that is not possible, you need everyone doing damage or at least one person on full healer duty. If you don't have the damage you get swarmed and die.

Morter posted:

For all people saying the answer to beating content is to "just use exotics", what's the ideal difficulty/location to play the game and/or farm for them? Because clearly, no one can give advice that doesn't already assume you have All The Gear (but are just incorrectly using it). I imagine people in my position: who are playing a decent amount but are just getting no RNG luck, are sort of stuck playing Normal or struggling through Hard, where loot drops will intrinsically be shittier.

First thing should be to look at what build can you make with the equipment you have right now or decide on a type of build, then look what pieces do you need, armor brands, and go to the places where those pieces drop and farm them. Unless you are really lucky you are not going to get a perfect build in just a couple missions, you will be getting gradual increments to your build that will help you push past Hard and then on to Challenging. But the first thing is to decide on a build and look for the basic pieces you need for it and that can be done in Normal and Hard.

Shoren
Apr 6, 2011

victoria concordia crescit

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

I feel like loot from boxes aren’t tied to difficulty at all. It almost always seems like trash low rolls.

They aren't. Difficulty affects enemy drops only, and maybe post-mission rewards. I think the idea is that turning on Heroic world difficulty and farming world chests/supply drops while avoiding enemies would break the loot system. I think this is evidenced by the fact that I never see purple drops from enemies but get them constantly from chests. The reduced drop frequency isn't assuaged by the obscure "higher difficulty = better drops" system now in place.

Morter posted:

For all people saying the answer to beating content is to "just use exotics", what's the ideal difficulty/location to play the game and/or farm for them? Because clearly, no one can give advice that doesn't already assume you have All The Gear (but are just incorrectly using it). I imagine people in my position: who are playing a decent amount but are just getting no RNG luck, are sort of stuck playing Normal or struggling through Hard, where loot drops will intrinsically be shittier.

When it comes to exotics, the drop rate from the last boss is supposedly 3/5/7% for Hard/Challenging/Heroic. In four runs of Lincoln Memorial, I've seen the Tardigrade chest drop twice (once for me, once for another). After farming Wall Street for awhile I got the Bullet King first try on the Tombs (both on challenging). The exotics are by no means essential, but they do help. They also only appear to drop from the final boss of the mission so bear that in mind.

As for practical advice, if you cannot find a consistent group then you need to build to support pubbies. You can't just hope to outdamage the enemies like you could before and carry a group. What has worked for me are two builds: 1) healer and 2) True Patriot. For the healer what works best is 3 R&K, 2 Murakami, and 1 Alps Summit. Run Empathic Resolve on your chest, Reformation on your guns, and use the healer hive and chem launcher to heal. This keeps your squishy pubbies alive and gives them a damage boost when you heal the. For True Patriot, use all defensive core attributes to get 1.5+ million armor, use an LMG and the Gunner's mag so you can fire as much as possible. The white debuff will heal you 8%/second as you fire on enemies with it so you'll have good sustain and the red and blue debuffs help your team. I think the clan vendor and Cassie have enough pieces to get you going. Make sure you have the TP backpack because that boosts the debuff effects and I'd say the chest is optional.

Shoren fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Mar 9, 2020

bamhand
Apr 15, 2010
Are higher difficulty drops strictly better or do you just have a higher % chance to get better rolls? Like you could get a perfectly rolled item on normal and it would be the same stats as a perfectly rolled item on heroic just less likely to happen right?

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Shoren
Apr 6, 2011

victoria concordia crescit

bamhand posted:

Are higher difficulty drops strictly better or do you just have a higher % chance to get better rolls? Like you could get a perfectly rolled item on normal and it would be the same stats as a perfectly rolled item on heroic just less likely to happen right?

Not strictly better, but the rate of getting max rolls is definitely higher. Max rolls are the same regardless of difficulty, the only thing that changes is the likelihood of finding a max roll. You could theoretically only play on Normal and eventually get a build equivalent to a Heroic player, it would just take a lot more time to do it.

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