[canada] I don't need to take lessons on marginalized people. I'm ITALIAN!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [canada] I don't need to take lessons on marginalized people. I'm ITALIAN!

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vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

eric ciaramella posted:

dude the community spreads are everywhere. major US states have been comunnity spreading for weeks.

wonder what the lack of testing is about. are we using the same unreliable test the US is using? the US isnt testing because trump is a large pissbaby who thought he could keep number low. what is Justin's excuse?

quote:

Why it's so difficult to get tested for COVID-19 in Canada
Canadians already anxious about symptoms are surprised to learn they might not be tested for the virus

Kelly Crowe � CBC News � Posted: Mar 20, 2020 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 2 hours ago

"Test, test, test."

That's the first rule in the war against COVID-19, according to the head of the World Health Organization (WHO).

"You cannot fight a fire blindfolded. And we cannot stop this pandemic if we don't know who is infected," Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the WHO's director-general, said in a briefing on Monday.

But right now, Canada does not know who is infected. Or how many people are infected.

And some Canadians might never know if they had COVID-19.

That's because not everyone can get a test, even if they have symptoms and think they might have the illness.

Access to testing varies across the country. In Ontario, tests are being rationed so that there will be enough for the highest priority patients, including health-care workers.

"The extremely high volume of COVID-19 tests being conducted at the Public Health Ontario Laboratory requires us to start prioritizing testing for the most vulnerable people in our health system and those who treat patients," a Public Health Ontario spokesperson told CBC News via email.

"In terms of who should not be tested, people who do not have symptoms do not require testing."

So far, nearly 66,000 Canadians have been tested, including about 17,000 in B.C., 16,650 in Ontario and 14,500 in Alberta. About 873 Canadians have tested positive, and 12 deaths have been reported.

At Toronto's Michael Garron Hospital, a new guidance document describes the latest testing protocol. Anyone who is asymptomatic will be sent home without a test and be instructed to self-isolate and monitor themselves for common cold symptoms.

Even people who have mild symptoms will not be tested unless they work in a high-risk setting such as a hospital or a long-term care facility.

At Toronto's Humber River Hospital, emergency physician Dr. Tasleem Nimjee said the "at risk" list includes paramedics, hospital staff, and people working in prisons.

"These are groups that we would certainly want to test because we worry about the risk, if they do have the infection, of infecting large numbers of people."

Supply shortages
So, why are tests being rationed? One major problem is a shortage of laboratory supplies.

For days, doctors in hospitals across Canada have watched anxiously as they run low on supplies of nasal swabs needed to test patients.

The Public Health Agency of Canada put out an urgent call to university research groups asking them to donate testing chemicals, called reagents, along with other products needed to do virus testing.

At the same time, Health Canada issued an interim order to speed up the importation of COVID-19 viral detection kits.

Dr. Allison McGeer at Toronto's Mount Sinai Hospital said the lack of trained staff could become another strain on the system.

"The entire supply chain is fragile in this situation, and both enough [testing] machines and enough staff are problems," she told CBC News in an email.

In Ontario, people are waiting up to five days to learn whether they tested positive for COVID-19. It's a situation Ontario Health Minister Christine Elliott called "unacceptable" at a briefing yesterday.

Alberta increased its capacity to more than 2,000 tests per day, but the province's chief medical officer said they can't keep going at that level.

"These are not numbers that the labs can necessarily sustain in the long term," Dr. Dina Hinshaw said during a briefing on Thursday. "We do not have a capacity and we will not have the capacity in the short or medium term to test every Albertan who has a cough or a runny nose."

University research labs are ready to help
Politicians, public health officials and researchers agree that testing rates must increase, because there are fears Canada might be missing hundreds of cases.

"I think it's pretty clear from what we've seen in Europe that we need to ramp up and we need to be thinking outside of the normal box and doing whatever we can to increase capacity," said Jim Woodgett, director of research at the Lunenfeld-Tanenbaum Research Institute in Toronto.

He said university and hospital research laboratories are standing by ready to help.

"We're in unusual and critical times where we should be looking at how best to safely expand testing using the expertise which is in the research laboratories," he said. "The research hospitals in most of our major cities have this tremendous capability. The universities also."

Although Canada's research labs have the necessary testing equipment, there are quality control issues that have to be worked out.

"This is not a difficult test at all," said Woodgett. "However, what's key here is that you have to have tremendous quality control because you don't want to get the result wrong."

As officials grapple with the obstacles to increased testing, social isolation remains the primary method of controlling viral spread. It's the default instruction for anyone who has returned from travel, or anyone who has symptoms.

Test not needed for treatment
The fact is, doctors don't need to know whether a person is infected to begin taking care of them. That's because there are no drugs or specific therapies that are available to treat the disease.

At this point, testing isn't particularly clinically informative because what physicians are doing mostly is just trying to stabilize those patients by treating their symptoms, not by treating the virus directly," said Matthew Miller, an infectious disease researcher at McMaster University in Hamilton.

That means doctors are only able to offer supportive care for patients who are seriously ill, including providing ventilator breathing assistance if they become critically ill. People with mild illness will be sent home to recover, Miller said.

"The majority of people who experience mild symptoms, they need to stay at home whether they have coronavirus or whether there's a possibility they have something else."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-testing-shortages-1.5503926

We do not have adequate testing capacity, we are short on materials and trained personnel in our public health laboratories (similarly to how we're short on ventilators and ICU beds after decades of austerity), and we are doing a piss-poor job of enlisting alternative laboratories like those at universities and research hospitals, so we have a lot of unused testing capacity as well. Our public health labs have reached the point where they're asking other labs to donate supplies because they don't have enough, and we're trying to import testing kits from other countries because we can't make enough.

As a result, we're literally incapable of doing the kind of widespread testing that has been so effective in SK and Singapore, and so even symptomatic people are getting sent home without being tested. We are flying blind. We have no idea how prevalent this disease is, and you should assume all the numbers are extreme underestimates, because we don't even have the capacity to test symptomatic people, let alone asymptomatic ones. At this point the only rational thing to do is to assume literally every person you interact with could be carrying the virus, because it is so much more widespread than our utterly woeful testing apparatus is able to confirm.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 14:42

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 13:21

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

Congratulations, your test results were negative, so you probably didn't have the virus when you were tested three days ago. You've been in your shrink-wrap since then, right?

# ? Mar 20, 2020 14:59

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

manitoba reported no new cases yesterday and no community spread so far. how long can our government keep this facade going

# ? Mar 20, 2020 15:32

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

DariusLikewise posted:

manitoba reported no new cases yesterday and no community spread so far. how long can our government keep this facade going

until the body count starts racking up

at some point you still have to explain why the ICU is overflowing, there's a shortage of ventilators, and a lot of dead people.

this is not yet that point

# ? Mar 20, 2020 15:42

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

infernal machines posted:

until the body count starts racking up

at some point you still have to explain why the ICU is overflowing, there's a shortage of ventilators, and a lot of dead people.

this is not yet that point

according to our health minister we have 263 ventilators province-wide. its hard to find exact numbers but we have something in the range of ~130 icu beds but only enough staff on hand for about 70 of those spots province-wide. the pcs are patting themselves on the back right now for budgeting and fiscal management of the virus while it feels like this who thing is going to fall out from under itself in about a month.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 15:55

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

vyelkin posted:

We do not have adequate testing capacity, we are short on materials and trained personnel in our public health laboratories (similarly to how we're short on ventilators and ICU beds after decades of austerity), and we are doing a piss-poor job of enlisting alternative laboratories like those at universities and research hospitals, so we have a lot of unused testing capacity as well. Our public health labs have reached the point where they're asking other labs to donate supplies because they don't have enough, and we're trying to import testing kits from other countries because we can't make enough.

As a result, we're literally incapable of doing the kind of widespread testing that has been so effective in SK and Singapore, and so even symptomatic people are getting sent home without being tested. We are flying blind. We have no idea how prevalent this disease is, and you should assume all the numbers are extreme underestimates, because we don't even have the capacity to test symptomatic people, let alone asymptomatic ones. At this point the only rational thing to do is to assume literally every person you interact with could be carrying the virus, because it is so much more widespread than our utterly woeful testing apparatus is able to confirm.

The worst part is that rather than admit this and then doing whatever triage it can to compensate for these massive weaknesses in our defenses the government is actively disguisng the scale of the crisis and taking half measures that don't convey the extreme peril everyone is in. They'd rather let the country burn than admit that they're not currently in a position to put out the fire, even though by admitting this they might at least shock people into recognizing the need to self isolate.

Of course the real reason they're doing this because as soon as they admit that we're bungling this horribly the logical next step would be to invoke emergency powers and start commandeering the resources and people needed to ramp up testing as quickly as possible. The government has the legislative tools to do basically anything it needs to in this situation but taking them would be bad for the economy and would definitely signal that the status quo utterly failed and so the Liberals would rather let our country go the way of Italy (or likely worse) because all those preventable deaths are a small price to pay for preserving the status quo.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 16:52

Fried Watermelon: Dec 29, 2008

DariusLikewise posted:

manitoba reported no new cases yesterday and no community spread so far. how long can our government keep this facade going

No new cases, no deaths...

Just announce a state of emergency just in case...

# ? Mar 20, 2020 17:29

Virtual Russian: Sep 15, 2008

My quarantine is being lifted, was a false alarm, good to be cautious though. Looks like I'll be working a ton at the grocery store I normally work once a week. Sounds like they are down a ton of people. Glad to be an essential worker who makes minimum wage.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 17:36

Fried Watermelon: Dec 29, 2008

Pallister started crying when talking about reaching out to people and mental health awareness right at the end of his speech

# ? Mar 20, 2020 17:39

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

highlights for me

- we should shame businesses on the internet that don't respect 50 or less, but it would "draconian" for the province to close business that don't respect public health rules
- economists think that austerity has made manitoba nimble enough to come out of this financially okay
- nimble
- agility
- nimble
- the federal government should be giving us more money for healthcare
- nimble
- childcare centers will keep getting full funding while closed. they are only encouraged to stop taking money from people or refund any prepiad childcare
- NIMBLE
- we wont go into full lockdown because weve done enough. lockdown means we are in caves

# ? Mar 20, 2020 17:47

Randalor: Sep 4, 2011

In more-sane news, the site I work security at is closing their doors to the public on Monday, along with most other non-vitally-important city offices. There is literally no reason for people to be coming in when everything can be done online or over the phone, and the powers-that-be have finally listened.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 17:50

CrcleSqreSanchz: Aug 21, 2002; I'm feeling something new...something...I'm happy??!!

Sooo if we can't gather over 50 people how do grocery store stores work now? Big rear end lines letting in 30 (due to employees) at a time???

# ? Mar 20, 2020 17:58

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

CrcleSqreSanchz posted:

Sooo if we can't gather over 50 people how do grocery store stores work now? Big rear end lines letting in 30 (due to employees) at a time???

That's what Loblaws is doing.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 17:59

CrcleSqreSanchz: Aug 21, 2002; I'm feeling something new...something...I'm happy??!!

flakeloaf posted:

That's what Loblaws is doing.

So working in health care full time...I am hosed. Cool.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 18:10

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Who�s ready to bail out the airlines while they lay off their entire staff?

# ? Mar 20, 2020 18:12

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Virtual Russian posted:

Without a doubt. Isn't she claiming JP is both unable to speak and write, but has clearly expressed that he wishes her to communicate on his behalf. Hmmm...

do JorP fans ever ask where he is? are they worried about him? do they wish he would come back?

# ? Mar 20, 2020 18:30

Another Bill: Sep 27, 2018; Born on the bayou
died in a cave
bbq and posting
is all I crave

Juul-Whip posted:

do JorP fans ever ask where he is? are they worried about him? do they wish he would come back?

They're too busy being healthy and rich and having sex with unlimited women

# ? Mar 20, 2020 18:34

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

https://twitter.com/JimboStanford/status/1240691311566413824

# ? Mar 20, 2020 19:29

Classon Ave. Robot: Oct 7, 2019; by Athanatos

Too bad they don't know how to organize and will never even try, most of then would be violently opposed to forming a union lmao

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:35

Virtual Russian: Sep 15, 2008

Classon Ave. Robot posted:

Too bad they don't know how to organize and will never even try, most of then would be violently opposed to forming a union lmao

Speak for yourself buddy. I've been making great inroads to organizing before all this, the twin GRT and Teacher strike really showed people that there is power in a union. I'm back in the store this coming week, and will be really upping my agitation.

Purge yourself of defeatism and stop looking down upon retail workers. You're not wrong that it is a hard sector to organize, but it is possible, and people are quickly becoming more and more aware. It's not the neoliberal 90's anymore, things are changing.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 22:30

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

People at my work are already fuming mad about how we're being treated, whoever survives this is going to be beyond pissed

# ? Mar 20, 2020 23:09

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Classon Ave. Robot posted:

Too bad they don't know how to organize and will never even try, most of then would be violently opposed to forming a union lmao

I doubt that the critical labour struggles of the near future will have much to do with people forming unions.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 23:30

Nairbo: Jan 2, 2005

Tighclops posted:

People at my work are already fuming mad about how we're being treated, whoever survives this is going to be beyond pissed

name and shame if it's a company we can all make a part to avoid

Is there a list somewhere going on of especially bad companies during all this? Ones forcing their staff to come to offices when they shouldn't be, not giving sick pay to, etc

# ? Mar 20, 2020 23:40

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

The CAF is doing something, but because someone suggested that a handwritten letter adds a human touch, I can�t tell what that something is.

My uncle died of a sudden respiratory illness today after showing symptoms for less than 24 hours. He was a mid 50�s firefighter. They�re saying it�s pneumonia and haven�t said if they�ll test for COVID. This was in Kitchener-Waterloo, no recent international travel.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 04:00 on Mar 21, 2020

# ? Mar 21, 2020 03:55

Virtual Russian: Sep 15, 2008

Frosted Flake posted:

My uncle died of a sudden respiratory illness today after showing symptoms for less than 24 hours. He was a mid 50�s firefighter. They�re saying it�s pneumonia and haven�t said if they�ll test for COVID. This was in Kitchener-Waterloo, no recent international travel.

I'm sorry to hear that. I'm in KW too, and reports seems to indicate its quite limited, but evidence seems to suggest otherwise. They also are only testing those who are vulnerable or are medical workers. The grocery store I work at is down a lot of people, and it sounds like covid is just actively spreading. I'm back in there next week, will find out for sure then.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 05:15

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

they're still acting like you can't get covid-19 unless you're uniquely tainted by china, huh

# ? Mar 21, 2020 06:10

Yinlock: Oct 22, 2008

DariusLikewise posted:

according to our health minister we have 263 ventilators province-wide. its hard to find exact numbers but we have something in the range of ~130 icu beds but only enough staff on hand for about 70 of those spots province-wide. the pcs are patting themselves on the back right now for budgeting and fiscal management of the virus while it feels like this who thing is going to fall out from under itself in about a month.

both libs and cons are busy crowing about how good and prepared they are while privately thinking the other will take the blame for any fallout

# ? Mar 21, 2020 06:22

wearing a lampshade: Mar 6, 2013

Virtual Russian posted:

I'm sorry to hear that. I'm in KW too, and reports seems to indicate its quite limited, but evidence seems to suggest otherwise. They also are only testing those who are vulnerable or are medical workers. The grocery store I work at is down a lot of people, and it sounds like covid is just actively spreading. I'm back in there next week, will find out for sure then.

There's a lot more kw goons than I realized

# ? Mar 21, 2020 06:30

Virtual Russian: Sep 15, 2008

I've been noticing that too

# ? Mar 21, 2020 06:33

Terror Sweat: Mar 15, 2009

Employment insurance isn�t gonna cover jack poo poo, where�s the ubi Trudeau you dumbass

# ? Mar 21, 2020 08:14

Virtual Russian: Sep 15, 2008

I started a new job recently, I'll be let go any week now... Not going to qualify for EI, at least I have my grocery job. It's minimum wage and usually very limited hours, will not pay the bills. My girlfriend has already lost her fulltime job. EI plus a min-wage part-time won't cut it.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 08:34

Terror Sweat: Mar 15, 2009

Ei is so overloaded that most claims won�t be processed for months

# ? Mar 21, 2020 08:41

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Terror Sweat posted:

Ei is so overloaded that most claims won�t be processed for months

I'm pretty sure they are just going to approve every claim. Dragging their heels would be deadly to people.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 12:46

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Frosted Flake posted:

My uncle died of a sudden respiratory illness today after showing symptoms for less than 24 hours. He was a mid 50�s firefighter. They�re saying it�s pneumonia and haven�t said if they�ll test for COVID. This was in Kitchener-Waterloo, no recent international travel.

I'm sorry to hear that. My guess is that even if it was COVID, they won't test for it. Like in China, they'll say there's no point testing someone who's already died, which saves a test kit and jukes the stats in their favour.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 13:13

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

Rutibex posted:

I'm pretty sure they are just going to approve every claim. Dragging their heels would be deadly to people.

I don't think they care.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 15:02

Virtual Russian: Sep 15, 2008

EvilJoven posted:

I don't think they care.

this

# ? Mar 21, 2020 15:55

Virtual Russian: Sep 15, 2008

Went into Uptown Waterloo to do the security check at my work, there are so many old people out in groups. It's infuriating.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 17:33

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

I�m in the hospital for another month here and I think the panic has set in. Staff is just not showing up, they�re freaking out about social distancing to the point of removing half of the chairs in the common rooms. Everything is closed or canceled. It�s wild

# ? Mar 21, 2020 17:42

Terror Sweat: Mar 15, 2009

Rutibex posted:

I'm pretty sure they are just going to approve every claim. Dragging their heels would be deadly to people.

According to ei workers on Reddit they're so overloaded and are in a panic

# ? Mar 21, 2020 17:50

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 13:21

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

Virtual Russian posted:

Went into Uptown Waterloo to do the security check at my work, there are so many old people out in groups. It's infuriating.

walked by a bank and it was packed with old folks wanting to do some saturday banking. The bank tried to space people out but there wasn't nearly enough space.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 17:54

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [canada] I don't need to take lessons on marginalized people. I'm ITALIAN!

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