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I forgot that you only get two characters before Fullmetal Hugger if you don’t pick Charlotte which sucks but whatever. I did Kevin on my first run of the demo but he is insufferable so I don’t really want to use him in the full game. I want to use Duran and Hawkeye, but I’m not sure about my third. My playthrough in Collection was Angela/Riesz/Charlotte but I don’t want to roll with three dudes because gently caress Kevin also Duran is strong enough and will learn light magic so I won’t necessarily need another heavy physical attacker. It’s tough to plan without knowing all the details of the classes ahead of time. Edit: I’m gonna play the game like three times anyway so it doesn’t matter that much. Angela it is! Blackbelt Bobman fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Mar 21, 2020 |
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Mar 21, 2020 20:05
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Angela / Hawkeye / Riesz would be a fun party if it weren't for the no heals aspect. Edit: it appears as long as you have the prerequisite stat filled, as you unlock spirits their magic becomes automatically available to you as opposed to waiting to level up, which is cool.
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Mar 21, 2020 20:42
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seiferguy posted:Angela / Hawkeye / Riesz would be a fun party if it weren't for the no heals aspect. That was always very annoying in the original, another good change.
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Mar 21, 2020 20:48
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seiferguy posted:Angela / Hawkeye / Riesz would be a fun party if it weren't for the no heals aspect. it feels pretty BALLS TO THE WALL in a way. Also Riesz apparently gets a Victory heal in her light classes. They finally gave Riesz healing of somekind go figure.
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Mar 21, 2020 20:52
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God dang this game is good. Why the hell is it still a month away!!
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Mar 21, 2020 21:05
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Any full rips of the entire game's soundtrack from just the demo yet?
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Mar 21, 2020 21:19
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Kind of wish I didn't play the demo because now I'm a lot more impatient for the final release than I was already. Music is fantastic, graphical designs are really good even if they're a bit Mobile Shovelware-y, added banter is excellent, action combat improvements are fun even though it seems way too easy even on Hard mode. Uh, I guess the very slow dialogue delivery is annoying? and Zable-Fahr's battle arena is inexplicably super bright in that trailer which kind of ruins its creepiness? Definitely more hyped for this than FF7 part 1/???
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Mar 21, 2020 21:42
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Shoenin posted:it feels pretty BALLS TO THE WALL in a way. Giving her a victory heal to go with her stat ups plus Hawkeye having stat downs sounds super fun. Hmm... may have to try it.
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Mar 21, 2020 22:09
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Sapozhnik posted:Definitely more hyped for this than FF7 part 1/??? Same honestly. I actually got weirdly emotional watching the opening of this remake of a game I haven’t played since I was a child, while the ff7 remake didn’t really do anything to me.
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Mar 21, 2020 22:30
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I'll definitely get and play FF7R part 1 of ??? but yeah, right there with you. Trials of Mana is a nostalgia trip first and foremost and the dev team have done a very faithful recreation of the original, they know exactly what their target audience wants and by all appearances they've delivered it. I'm guessing people who didn't play the original when they were kids won't really care much for it but I'll be interested to see what they say. Shorn of any sentimental value it's a fairly generic RPG with an above-average soundtrack and a slightly interesting branching plot system.
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Mar 21, 2020 23:02
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Persona 5 Royal comes out end of this month, then its FF7R and Trials so it's gonna be a good month of JRPGs while we're all huddled in during our quarantine.
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Mar 21, 2020 23:14
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I'm curious to see how Reisz's later classes go since she seems set up to be solidly average stat-wise while everyone else specializes in one of the five stats. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some gimmick specializing like the victory heal to justify her being an all-rounder.
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Mar 21, 2020 23:40
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I beat the boss in the cave and the game said I could now put points into light magic in the training menu, but I don't see anywhere to do that? There's just the same five stats that were there before. I never played the original, so I don't know if I'm missing something, or if they just didn't put this in the demo since it ends right after this point. I did think after it said I'd unlocked this new thing that I might get to try that out on the enemies in the area before finishing though
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Mar 21, 2020 23:41
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You need to put points into Spirit (I think?) for Angela and Charlotte for them to be able to cast the spells that unlock once you have Lumina.
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Mar 21, 2020 23:44
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Oh, huh. So you just don't get anything from Lumina if you didn't pick either of those characters? Coming to this from Secret of Mana, I wasn't expecting it to work that way
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Mar 21, 2020 23:54
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Suaimhneas posted:Oh, huh. So you just don't get anything from Lumina if you didn't pick either of those characters? Coming to this from Secret of Mana, I wasn't expecting it to work that way Yep. Almost everyone can learn Lumina related magic but not necessarily in their base class. Which is beyond the scope of the demo.
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Mar 22, 2020 00:01
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Sapozhnik posted:Uh, I guess the very slow dialogue delivery is annoying? Oh good, I thought it was just me that thought that. A lot of the line deliveries are just so unbearably slow I ended up skipping the lines with the A button, which I didn't realize also skips the cutscenes until the next voiced line. I couldn't figure out why Riesz was teleporting around in her cutscenes until someone told me that. Kevin is probably the worst offender of the lot. I don't understand his lines anyway. Every beastman seems to be able to speak normal English perfectly fine except him. And even he speaks normal English sometimes! But not all the time, sometimes he talks like Ayla from Chrono Trigger. It's just weird.
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Mar 22, 2020 00:34
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I want to do some playthroughs of the original to hype myself up. Are there any guides on the stat system and comparison of the classes? I never really understood it and those archaic systems were always my least favorite thing about 90s (and sadly still some modern) RPGs. I know some things were bugged and not fixed in the collection. I'd prefer something based on the most current understanding, and not something uploaded to GameFAQs in the early 2000s, rofl.
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Mar 22, 2020 00:35
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I didn't realize there was a thread just for Trials of Mana so was posting in the Switch thread - just tried the demo and the camera/controls felt really clunky compared to the original, this wasn't a good trade for losing co-op.
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Mar 22, 2020 01:02
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gandlethorpe posted:I want to do some playthroughs of the original to hype myself up. Are there any guides on the stat system and comparison of the classes? I never really understood it and those archaic systems were always my least favorite thing about 90s (and sadly still some modern) RPGs. I know some things were bugged and not fixed in the collection. What makes you think current understanding has significantly changed relative to GameFAQs in the early 2000s on a game that old? 
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Mar 22, 2020 01:20
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Captain Oblivious posted:What makes you think current understanding has significantly changed relative to GameFAQs in the early 2000s on a game that old? Some of the class names and skill names/spell names have changed with the new localization, so I imagine it might be confusing to some to hear about the wanderer rather than the nomad or the swordmaster rather than the edelfrei. It's not THAT confusing though. That said, the info on Gamefaqs is pretty solid overall. Meeplelard's technical faq covers most of the mechanics if you're into that sort of stuff and there's lots of info on the various classes.
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Mar 22, 2020 01:31
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Captain Oblivious posted:What makes you think current understanding has significantly changed relative to GameFAQs in the early 2000s on a game that old? I don't want to read a goddamn text file, lol. Also other stuff that may have been totally mapped out since then, like the exact formula for damage calculation or something. I also learned that crits/dodging don't work at all and don't recall that being confirmed knowledge back in the day. Based on watching GDQ, people are always learning weird new quirks about old games.
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Mar 22, 2020 01:35
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Jackard posted:I didn't realize there was a thread just for Trials of Mana so was posting in the Switch thread - just tried the demo and the camera/controls felt really clunky compared to the original, this wasn't a good trade for losing co-op. I played the demo on both PS4 and Switch and this issue is really only on the Switch version. Not surprisingly, the PS4 version runs at 60fps and the graphics are much smoother. This is both good and bad. The art style doesn’t mesh well with being super smooth and crisp. On the other hand, the textures don’t look very good on the Switch and I had several issues with textures and even one enemy not loading until I got really close. And everything gets really blurry when you move the camera which made me a little bit motion sick. And my character seemed to run slower on the Switch? Maybe it’s because of the frame rate but movement and everything seemed sluggish as hell on the Switch. The voice acting and dialogue were just as sluggish as on PS4 though. No avoiding that I suppose. Anyway now I’m conflicted because I wanted the Switch version for the portability but it runs very poorly. I’m definitely going to buy the game but I am gonna wait until closer to release to decide which system. Another weird note, on PS4 the talk/grab item/select button is X while on Switch it’s A. Which, you know, aren’t in the same place on the controller. And somehow it took me a while to notice because it felt very natural that way.
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Mar 22, 2020 01:36
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The 4k and 60fps on the ps4 is why I'm choosing it over the switch version. Also, after the initial load, the game loads much faster overall.
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Mar 22, 2020 01:44
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gandlethorpe posted:I don't want to read a goddamn text file, lol. crits/dodging not working was well known. it was not literally confirmed through assembly diving until much later, i suppose - the only real effort at romhacking beyond the text portion of the rom was SD3 Hardtype and it's pretty recent. the FAQs you don't want to read do talk about how, for example, duran's shields don't work, kevin's crit-boosting spell makes it literally impossible to score a crit instead of just vanishingly unlikely, that sort of thing. i feel you on the text file thing tho. it would be nice if gamefaqs would at least try to convert the text files into html - many of those FAQ authors put a lot of effort into section tags and other poo poo that would make their guides machine-convertable
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Mar 22, 2020 02:05
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Mega64 posted:I'm curious to see how Reisz's later classes go since she seems set up to be solidly average stat-wise while everyone else specializes in one of the five stats. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some gimmick specializing like the victory heal to justify her being an all-rounder. Riesz seems really underwhelming as a fighter right now (besides her Class Strike). But class changing will change the attack string and power attacks and she'll get her buffs and debuffs (and summon when she gets to 3rd tier) so she's probably the one person who'll gain the most benefit from changing her class. Generally, Riesz's abilities seems set her up to be a support fighter; lay down the buffs or debuff your enemies, then go to town (and maybe use your summon for mobs or to pile on a status effect if you've learned it), recasting the buffs if needed. This was all that was needed to make her shine in the original because stat buffs and debuffs was extremely overpowered. Her tier 3 classes did make her rather specialized within certain things though, so there's potential for her to be more than that. We just... gotta find out how this time. Star Lancer Riesz needs to put points into both Intellect and Spirit to access all of her spells because her stat buffs and upgrades are on the Spirit path and Seraph is on the Intellect path (and this set-up is likely true for the rest of her classes) and needs Strength to get her Class Strikes. This means she's actually pretty intensive in terms of stat raising this time around.
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Mar 22, 2020 02:26
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I posted my thoughts on the demo in the Ps4 thread, might as well post it here too. It feels like a project SE gave to junior developers. Graphics are nice but nothing real amazing. Im a little bummed the forest areas and cave I explored felt small and closed in, like its a Vita port. Music is good, but sounds very similar to the original. They just did small things like replacing a Snes drum sound with a higher quality. English voice acting is about Ps2 level, evil sorcery dude in Angelas story stood out to me as a bad example. Combat itself is good thankfully, and its a joy to see classic mana monsters in 3d. At least its more challenging and engaging then Legend of Manas combat. Despite the problems I'm a big fan of mana games and Im very happy to see it finally return to a traditional game after the garbage Ds titles. Its just a bit too expensive at 50$, feels more like a 40$ budget title. I've also never gotten that far in the original Trials Snes game, I'll be playing through it finally after all these years so I can see what more to expect. And, so far I just beat the Jewel Eater boss. Party is Angela, Riez, and Charlotte. I remember the furthest I got many years ago was around when you get to the black market town. Kinda sucks that there's no way to dodge enemy abilities or boss abilities, you just have to take it. I'm glad the remake gives you a chance to roll out of the way.
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Mar 22, 2020 02:35
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:And my character seemed to run slower on the Switch? Maybe it’s because of the frame rate but movement and everything seemed sluggish as hell on the Switch. The camera sucks and according to the article it's the reason they didn't include co-op.
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Mar 22, 2020 03:08
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seiferguy posted:The 4k and 60fps on the ps4 is why I'm choosing it over the switch version. Also, after the initial load, the game loads much faster overall. When they initially announced it during Nintendo’s E3 Direct I thought it was just for Switch, which would have been great because they could have optimized it for the hardware. But instead it’s more like a weak port which sucks rear end. Edit: dashing by pressing L3 is fine, I didn’t have issues with my character slowing to a walk unless I ran into something. It just seriously seems like I was running slower on Switch and I think it’s because of the frame rate and weaker hardware.
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Mar 22, 2020 03:10
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Jackard posted:Character slows to a walk when you change direction, sometimes attacks go in a random direction, dashing is bound to one or both of the thumbsticks. Dash is a toggle not a hold. Tap it don’t hold it and slowing when you change directions doesn’t happen.
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Mar 22, 2020 03:37
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Well it happened, a lot, but maybe it was just random - I'd have the stick at max tilt and then nope, walking again
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Mar 22, 2020 04:03
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Mega64 posted:I'm curious to see how Reisz's later classes go since she seems set up to be solidly average stat-wise while everyone else specializes in one of the five stats. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some gimmick specializing like the victory heal to justify her being an all-rounder. She was solidly average at everything in the original but managed to be a powerful support character who could still take a hit and contribute damage in the original. Until class change, though, she was just a crappier Duran. In this one she feels even worse off because her attack animations seem much less useful than Duran’s. Hawk is weaker than Kevin, but at least feels more agile by comparison. After playing through the demo three times, here are my thoughts: -I don’t feel the controls are clunky at all except for the camera, which does suck, but not more so than in a lot of action games. -Kevin, Hawkeye and Duran are all fun to play and feel quite distinct. I’ll probably play through again to get a better sense of Duran’s gameplay, since he was the first character I played. Riesz feels a fair bit weaker than the guys and like her spear should have more reach. It’s pretty weird that the dagger character is best at keeping his distance and attacking with with long reach, but the gameplay and animations sell it. Kevin is just disgustingly strong, but that was true in the original as well, and he overall gets the least from class change. He and Hawkeye are both really fast and fluid, but in different ways. It’s very good. -The voice acting is hilariously terrible. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. New Yorker Charlotte perfectly encapsulates this. The writing in the original game was already pretty bad, and this makes it much worse. -It’s way, way too easy, even on hard. It’s trivial to avoid all damage against the boss just by staying behind it. Some of the enemy compositions have the potential to be tough, if damage were much higher, though. Hopefully this is just an issue with the demo. -I dislike changing the techniques from a per-battle resource to a strategic, slow filling resource. I understand why they did that, but it’s less satisfying. -I really appreciate how closely the graphics and sound stick to the original. -Some of the character designs are really embarrassing. I wish the women would put on some more clothes. -Overall the game is not perfect, but the demo feels like as good a remake as anyone could hope for. It’s extremely faithful to the original (including faithfully recreating many of the original game’s weaknesses), but translates it beautifully to modern gameplay while adding depth where the original game’s play was shallow. -All in all, I love it.
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Mar 22, 2020 11:54
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Mega64 posted:I'm curious to see how Reisz's later classes go since she seems set up to be solidly average stat-wise while everyone else specializes in one of the five stats. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some gimmick specializing like the victory heal to justify her being an all-rounder. As others have said, Riesz gets the most out of her class changes, and is extremely versatile how you can build her, which goes great with different party compositions. Do you have stat downs covered with Dark Hawkeye or Dark Charlotte? Make Riesz go Light and get stat ups. Stat ups + stat downs was a disgustingly strong combination in the original. Don't have Hawkeye or Charlotte? Go Dark Riesz, and use stat boosting consumables. Her Light-Light class had a summons that turned all enemies on screen into harmless critters. Those gave no XP, but it was a great panic reset button when you were about to wipe to the quite tough enemies in the late game. Her Light-Dark class got a full screen damage+silence summon, which was imho the most powerful full screen magic in the game against non-bosses. Most late game enemies became drastically weaker when they were silenced and couldn't use their spells or full screen techs. Her Dark classes summons were weaker, but at least one was for buggy reasons (the Dark-Dark summon had no special effect but was supposed to do more damage... "was supposed" being the key phrase here). And I just want to emphasize how powerful stat ups/stat downs were. Due to the way combat rolls were calculated, they made a huge difference. And enemy that did more that 100 points of damage could easily do single digit damage after you buffed your party with stat ups and hit them with stat downs. Similarly, your party's damage output went through the roof as well. And since Light class Riesze was the only class that brought stat ups to the table (using consumables was not ideal due to the limited active inventory size), it felt never bad to simply add her to a party. Only problem was an all female team, since you lacked a true physical powerhouse.
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Mar 22, 2020 13:09
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Torrannor posted:"was supposed" being the key phrase here That's really SD3 in a nutshell, isn't it
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Mar 22, 2020 13:23
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Jackard posted:Well it happened, a lot, but maybe it was just random - I'd have the stick at max tilt and then nope, walking again I had a huge issue when playing BOTW where I would accidentally be pressing the stick too hard and it would make me duck in the middle of combat. So you might be accidentally pushing the stick down when you turn, causing you to stop running. I definitely didn’t have that issue in this demo unless I physically ran into something.
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Mar 22, 2020 17:37
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Torrannor posted:As others have said, Riesz gets the most out of her class changes, and is extremely versatile how you can build her, which goes great with different party compositions. Do you have stat downs covered with Dark Hawkeye or Dark Charlotte? Make Riesz go Light and get stat ups. Stat ups + stat downs was a disgustingly strong combination in the original. Don't have Hawkeye or Charlotte? Go Dark Riesz, and use stat boosting consumables. Her Light-Light class had a summons that turned all enemies on screen into harmless critters. Those gave no XP, but it was a great panic reset button when you were about to wipe to the quite tough enemies in the late game. Her Light-Dark class got a full screen damage+silence summon, which was imho the most powerful full screen magic in the game against non-bosses. Most late game enemies became drastically weaker when they were silenced and couldn't use their spells or full screen techs. Her Dark classes summons were weaker, but at least one was for buggy reasons (the Dark-Dark summon had no special effect but was supposed to do more damage... "was supposed" being the key phrase here). Something to note is that given there is respec in this version, "a bit weaker but super high versatility" is actually really drat useful. Well, if the game was difficult.
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Mar 22, 2020 18:02
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Arkeus posted:Well, if the game was difficult. We'll see how difficult the game will be. The early part wasn't that difficult in the original either. But of course, one change that's generally been received quite well might be a big culprit. I did die to the FMH when I first started the game. If you're not diligent with healing and have a bit of misfortune, he can easily kill party members with his unavoidable attacks (edit: especially his poison, which you might not have a healing item for if you're new to the game). But now you can evade those, which for any halfway competent gamer will make the game much easier. I wonder if there will be any unavoidable FSTs/spells left. Will Eruption Sword, Suzaku Sky Dance, or Split Image Slice still wipe an unprepared party? What about Ancient, Double Spell or Marduk? Can they all be avoided? Will enemy werewolves and ninjas no longer be the big party killers? By the way, how did spells like Suzaku Sky Dance or Seiryuu Death Fist get translated in the official translation? Torrannor fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Mar 22, 2020 |
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Mar 22, 2020 19:14
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This is a cool demo. I played maybe 1/3 of the original Trials of Mana on the Collection before stopping, but I enjoyed it. I don't have the nostalgia that a lot of you do, but I enjoyed seeing how they faithfully the stuff I did play. I picked Duran in my main in both versions. He's so very prototypical anime protagonist. I'm gonna be playing young anime swordsmen in video games until I die. His hair is a fire hazard.
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Mar 22, 2020 19:28
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Torrannor posted:We'll see how difficult the game will be. The early part wasn't that difficult in the original either. But of course, one change that's generally been received quite well might be a big culprit. I did die to the FMH when I first started the game. If you're not diligent with healing and have a bit of misfortune, he can easily kill party members with his unavoidable attacks (edit: especially his poison, which you might not have a healing item for if you're new to the game). But now you can evade those, which for any halfway competent gamer will make the game much easier. I wonder if there will be any unavoidable FSTs/spells left. Will Eruption Sword, Suzaku Sky Dance, or Split Image Slice still wipe an unprepared party? What about Ancient, Double Spell or Marduk? Can they all be avoided? Will enemy werewolves and ninjas no longer be the big party killers? During the footage where a reviewer was heading through the ice labyrinth and fight Fiegmund, one of the knights started a Hollow Slash tech (the former swordmaster's Vacuum Sword tech) and it was preceeded by a damage cone just like the FMH's eye beams. I imagine most techs will be dodgable to some degree although some may have a massive AOE that makes avoiding damage harder than from what the first boss threw at you. Those techs are now called Suzaku Aerial and Seiryuu Strike.
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Mar 22, 2020 20:57
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Torrannor posted:We'll see how difficult the game will be. The early part wasn't that difficult in the original either. But of course, one change that's generally been received quite well might be a big culprit. I did die to the FMH when I first started the game. If you're not diligent with healing and have a bit of misfortune, he can easily kill party members with his unavoidable attacks (edit: especially his poison, which you might not have a healing item for if you're new to the game). But now you can evade those, which for any halfway competent gamer will make the game much easier. I wonder if there will be any unavoidable FSTs/spells left. Will Eruption Sword, Suzaku Sky Dance, or Split Image Slice still wipe an unprepared party? What about Ancient, Double Spell or Marduk? Can they all be avoided? Will enemy werewolves and ninjas no longer be the big party killers? Being able to avoid anything has made the demo much easier then the original, yeah. I kicked the difficult up to Hard once I realized how good the dodge roll was and I think I used one candy through the entirety of the demo from that point on (to heal an AI Duran who wound up eating too many Goblin axes to the face in an encounter towards the end of the Caverns with four of them.) I think the only time either character got hit during Full Metal Haggar is the first time it used the jump attack. It looks like they're going the route where almost all attacks are intended to be avoidable somehow, which is good since the absolute worst part of SD3 is the back-half of the game involving frequent sudden death due to groups of enemies using unavoidable full-screen attacks back to back (often as a counter for you doing something like your own full-screens or casting magic- unfortunate SNES-era Square design of discouraging you from using your fun toys.)
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Mar 22, 2020 21:05
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