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Incidentally, someone has found the Star Lancer Training tree and judging by it... boy does Star Lancer Riesz want to raise multiple Training stats now.
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Mar 22, 2020 21:09
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 21:01 |
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they have? any chance of showing it?
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Mar 22, 2020 21:32
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Shoenin posted:they have? Here you go: 
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Mar 22, 2020 21:42
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oh weak, they split magic defense and attack up as separate spells. Guess they had to make up for speed up being gone somehow
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Mar 22, 2020 21:51
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I suppose resource pressure in the remake could involve rapidly switching to whatever ally is currently getting piled on so that the AI-controlled party members don't take too much damage. I did a second run-through on the PC with that strategy and that kept things suitably engaging. I also don't think I used so much as a single healing item though. Then again, in the original the regular enemies started to hit like trucks toward the end of the game, so it'll probably still work out fine in the end. Carlie is so absolutely insufferable, but then she was in the original too. No amount of healing is worth putting up with that crap.
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Mar 22, 2020 22:22
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Bizarrely I never wanted to use Charlotte in the original version, now that she's from Wendel, MA I'm at least interested in playing through her intro.
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Mar 22, 2020 22:46
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Sapozhnik posted:I suppose resource pressure in the remake could involve rapidly switching to whatever ally is currently getting piled on so that the AI-controlled party members don't take too much damage. I did a second run-through on the PC with that strategy and that kept things suitably engaging. I also don't think I used so much as a single healing item though. Then again, in the original the regular enemies started to hit like trucks toward the end of the game, so it'll probably still work out fine in the end. So far the answer to that seems to be to use your knockback attack, since enemies you hit with it are also knocked down. For a WHILE. I wound up abusing Angela's a lot since it comes out really fast. basically letting you handle whatever you want. I'm guessing more enemies later in the game will resist/be immune to it, because for the duration of the demo the knockback combo was basically the nuclear option to cheesing fights.
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Mar 22, 2020 23:07
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I noticed a few goblins in the demo had some hexagon barrier that give them unbreakable poise until the barrier is broken. In general enemies in Trials don't stagger easily, so you have to unlearn some ARPG habits to get into the swing of things. Since you can't really stunlock enemies unless your AI partners happen to be focusing their attacks, a good approach ime is to hit them with light attacks until they go to counter, jump over their counter, then hit strong attack to do a diving attack, which will usually knock them down. If an enemy's back is turned to you then you can also do a weak-into-strong combo to knock down everything in the immediate vicinity.
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Mar 22, 2020 23:34
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Does the demo have a basics guide somewhere that explains mechanical things like exactly what STR/INT/etc do? E: hawk, on meeting Carlie "that girl knows what she wants...if only she were ten years older" 
SuperKlaus fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Mar 23, 2020 |
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Mar 23, 2020 00:41
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Sapozhnik posted:I noticed a few goblins in the demo had some hexagon barrier that give them unbreakable poise until the barrier is broken. Hawkeye’s strong attack is fast enough and has enough reach that you can reliably use it without being hit. It’s great charged up, too. Kevin’s light attack out of running is a slide with amazing reach, and his strong attack combo out of it is quite fast, so he can combo and knock down most of the demo enemies without letting them react. Otherwise jabbing with light attacks and baiting counters seems to be the best strategy. Most of the enemies seem to pause for a bit after attacking, so if you dodge an attack, you can counter it with a combo. The zombies seemed much harder to stagger than other enemies, and there were some shielded enemies too, so it’s not unreasonable to expect more diversity to combat later, even not taking magic into account. Is it confirmed that class changing will change attack chains? That could really add a lot of diversity beyond what the class system already adds. I have faith that the game has the potential to be sufficiently challenging if the enemies do enough damage. The fight with the four goblins in the cavern can be pretty hectic if you’re trying to avoid getting hit, and could be tough if those axes were actually threatening. Of course consumables will almost certainly break the difficulty curve no matter what, but that’s par for the course. That starlancer skill tree is a little worrying, though without knowing how many training points we’ll be getting it’s impossible to know how limiting that will be. It’s possible that we’ll be able to max out all stats and get all the skills pretty naturally by the end of the game. Still, my initial reaction is that the design team thought Kevin wasn’t overpowered enough in the original. Since his dark classes only get one spell, they go pick that up then spend the rest of the time strictly building strength and stamina (or luck, if crits are a solid way of increasing damage). I think the biggest takeaway from that tree, though, is that we’re likely going to be able to max out all stats in one class by the end of the game. In fact, we might be expected to use respec to level up in multiple different classes for more stat boosts and chain abilities. I really want to bring Charlotte for necromancer, but I don’t know if I can do it. I think I’ll just have to mute the voices or set the audio to Japanese no matter what, though.
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Mar 23, 2020 02:00
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Noob question about OG game: can you dash toward enemies in combat, or that just my AI allies being cheaters? Side note: I was a spoiled emulator player and used tilde all the time to save time
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Mar 23, 2020 02:11
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SuperKlaus posted:Does the demo have a basics guide somewhere that explains mechanical things like exactly what STR/INT/etc do? Some speculations (and some confirmed things) Atk: Strength + Weapon bonus (Likely determines most of your physical attacks like normal attacks, power attacks, charge attacks, and class strikes) Def: Stamina + Equipment bonus (Defends against anything that is physical attacks) Mgc Atk: Intellect + Weapon bonus (Determines the power of offensive spells) Mgc Def: Spirit + Equipment bonus (Determines your defense against offensive spells) Luck (Determines how often you crit + Possibly item drops + the power of Trap/Projectile spells AKA most of Hawkeye's spells) In addition, Spirit also determines how strong magical healing is. Heithinn Grasida posted:Hawkeye’s strong attack is fast enough and has enough reach that you can reliably use it without being hit. It’s great charged up, too. Kevin’s light attack out of running is a slide with amazing reach, and his strong attack combo out of it is quite fast, so he can combo and knock down most of the demo enemies without letting them react. Otherwise jabbing with light attacks and baiting counters seems to be the best strategy. Most of the enemies seem to pause for a bit after attacking, so if you dodge an attack, you can counter it with a combo. The zombies seemed much harder to stagger than other enemies, and there were some shielded enemies too, so it’s not unreasonable to expect more diversity to combat later, even not taking magic into account. You have about 60 points at Lv. 45. I'd say we should be able to get enough points to comfortably max out at least three of your stat trees (totaling about 99 points) and dip a fair amount into one other at Lv. 99, but I don't think Star Lancer Riesz can be everything at once without a fair amount of sacrifices: The Star Lancer spells and upgrades to those spells lie on the Intellect and Spirit paths, but the stat upgrades she can get pushes her towards attacking physically since Star Lancer gives the most bonuses to her physical stats and Riesz's Intellect is her worst ranked stat coupled with unimpressive boosts to that stat as a Star Lancer should you decide to fully invest in training her Intellect. I think most Star Lancer players will invest heavily into the Spirit tree to nab the Stat boost spells and the upgrades and about as much into Intellect as they can to get Seraph for the silence, then finally pump as many points as they can into Strength so that she'll be able to maximize her physical damage, or into Stamina to keep her durable. At this point, Riesz will have to sacrifice physical attack or her physical defense if she wants to max her potential in either of them (and to get the passive abilities present in those trees), or cut her potential in both to gain as much as she can from both trees. And unless her chain abilities on the Luck tree are really good (or you're running certain teams that benefit more from those abilities enough to make the STR or STA tree a lower priority), she should put as few ability points as possible into the Luck tree. And yes, class changing will expand upon your characters' combos. This has a lot to say for Riesz since her normal attacks are... probably the worst of the entire cast right now.
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Mar 23, 2020 03:03
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Folt The Bolt posted:Some speculations (and some confirmed things) Thanks for the detailed answer. Did spirit determine the power of summons and holy damage spells in the original or was that a mistake in some of the guides? Also are there some articles or text resources on spoiled mechanics so far, or another forum somewhere with good information? I want to know more, but I have no patience for videos.
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Mar 23, 2020 03:36
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:It just seriously seems like I was running slower on Switch and I think it’s because of the frame rate and weaker hardware. Oh poo poo, I wonder if this was why people thought I was crazy when I said the controls felt sluggish/clunky outside of combat. I'm gonna download it on PC and see how it feels there. edit: lmao yep, it's the Switch version. Hawkeye still feels a little "slidey" when turning out of combat and not sprinting, but it's miles better than it felt on Switch. Folt The Bolt posted:Some speculations (and some confirmed things) Is it known yet how easy it is to reset points? I get the feeling my priorities early on are going to differ a lot from what I want once I start getting to 2nd/3rd classes. Harrow fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Mar 23, 2020 |
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Mar 23, 2020 04:33
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gandlethorpe posted:Noob question about OG game: can you dash toward enemies in combat, or that just my AI allies being cheaters? In the original, your allies tend to run up to the nearest enemy and THEN go into their weapon stance whenever you draw your weapons. It's a semi AI cheat. Heithinn Grasida posted:Thanks for the detailed answer. Did spirit determine the power of summons and holy damage spells in the original or was that a mistake in some of the guides? Also are there some articles or text resources on spoiled mechanics so far, or another forum somewhere with good information? I want to know more, but I have no patience for videos. In the original, the spirit stat determined the damage summoning spells (dark Charlotte's monster summons and all of Riesz' summons) and Holy Bolt/Lucent Beam. This made Charlotte's holy spells hit harder than Angela's.
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Mar 23, 2020 08:57
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Thanks for the detailed answer. Did spirit determine the power of summons and holy damage spells in the original or was that a mistake in some of the guides? Also are there some articles or text resources on spoiled mechanics so far, or another forum somewhere with good information? I want to know more, but I have no patience for videos. Yes. It determined the power of holy spells and summons in the original, as well as the defense against those spells (Intellect determined the defense against all other spells that dealt magic damage). So this is an example of the developers streamlining how stats work, making it more intuitive to figure out. Harrow posted:Oh poo poo, I wonder if this was why people thought I was crazy when I said the controls felt sluggish/clunky outside of combat. I'm gonna download it on PC and see how it feels there. I think you're going to be able to reset points when you want once you enter the Mana Sanctuary. If nothing else, this will allow for experimentation. EDIT: Took a bit of time to extrapolate the stats for Lv. 45 Star Lancer Riesz along with the equipment at the time: HP: 794 MP: 93 Strength: 94 Stamina: 94 Intellect: 91 Spirit: 98 Luck: 107 Stargazer: +93 ATK, +88 MGC ATK Stardust Helm: +23 DEF, +14 MGC DEF Polaris Armor: +57 DEF, +54 MGC DEF Draupnir: +16 DEF, +26 MGC DEF Total Armor Bonuses: +96 DEF, +94 MGC DEF From there, the hardcap on how high a Lv. 45 Star Lancer Riesz stats can go if she fully invests in the respective training stat is: Strength: 94+40=134 Stamina: 94+40=134 Intellect: 91+20=111 Spirit: 98+20=118 Luck: 107+20=127 And these would play into ATK, DEF, MGC ATK, and MGC DEF in this way: Highest possible ATK at Lv. 45: 227 Highest possible DEF at Lv. 45: 230 Highest possible MGC ATK at Lv. 45: 199 Highest possible MGC DEF at Lv. 45: 212 Oh yeah, and here's Lv. 45 Runemaster Angela and Divine Fist Kevin statlines, but only with how high up their Strength and Stamina stats can go: Angela HP: 711 MP: 118 Strength: 79 Stamina: 76 Intellect: 116 Spirit: 104 Luck: 91 Rune Staff: +74 ATK, +128 MGC ATK Rune Veil: +20 DEF, +15 MGC DEF Rune Coat: +41 DEF, +57 MGC DEF Blaze Barette: +11 DEF, +27 MGC DEF Total Armor Bonuses: +72 DEF, +99 MGC DEF Training Limits (Strength and Stamina only): Strength: 79+20=99 Stamina: 76+20=96 Highest possible ATK at Lv. 45: 173 Highest possible DEF at Lv. 45: 168 Highest possible MGC ATK at Lv. 45 (without Training stats): 244 Highest possible MGC DEF at Lv. 45 (without Training stats): 203 Kevin HP: 818 MP: 81 Strength: 119 Stamina: 78 Intellect: 82 Spirit: 94 Luck: 107 Spiral Claw: +114 ATK, +76 MGC ATK Ivory Scarf: +20 DEF, +14 MGC DEF Byakko Attire: +50 DEF, +55 MGC DEF Beryl Brace: +14 DEF, +25 MGC DEF Total Armor Bonuses: +84 DEF, +94 MGC DEF Training Limits (Strength and Stamina only): Strength: 119+40=159 Stamina: 78+20=98 Highest possible ATK at Lv. 45: 283 Highest possible DEF at Lv. 45: 182 Highest possible MGC ATK at Lv. 45 (without Training stats): 158 Highest possible MGC DEF at Lv. 45 (without Training stats): 188 Folt The Bolt fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Mar 23, 2020 |
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Mar 23, 2020 11:25
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So do Stamina and Intellect affect how much your HP and MP respectively go up each level or do they only go up a set amount each level?
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Mar 23, 2020 16:42
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I'm really glad I tried the demo on PC. The "everything feels sluggish and weird outside of combat" complaint I had seems specific to the Switch version and on PC I'm really loving the demo. I already thought the combat was great but now the parts I was having a hard time getting over aren't a problem, either. I do notice that moving around as Hawkeye feels worse than as any other character, but I think that's because he's animated like he's running faster than he actually moves, so it feels like he's moving too slowly. But I also find him the most fun in combat so I'm gonna pick him as my first main character anyway.
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Mar 23, 2020 16:55
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I hope they revamp the gear system so it amounts to more than just "buy the new thing when it's in stores". Although it's more satisfying than I like to admit when you upgrade and feel the power spike. On a related note, (in the OG game) is there a difference between light and dark classes' gear besides flavor? Do dark classes get stronger weapons in general? GameFAQs isn't helpful there, or when it comes to comparing classes in general. Lots of info that sounds like it was based on intuition vs data.
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Mar 23, 2020 18:00
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The only thing that weapons did in the original was raise your attack value. Which ones available to you was just for flavor. I do enjoy that there are neutral weapons in the off chance you put off class changing for some reason.
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Mar 23, 2020 18:05
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I think most dark classes had slightly stronger weapons, but the main thing distinguishing classes damage was their strength score. Some characters ended up with more damage in their light classes, most notably Riesz, whose strongest attacker was Vanadis, the light/light class. I broke down and watched a video and the stat system seems pretty bad. Kevin probably has it easy, but it looks like a nightmare for Angela. Either she respecs after every dungeon to pick up the next “correct” element, or she spreads her stats all over everywhere and never gets to boost int to see more damage from her spells. The player’s team composition in the video annoyed me. Either Kevin should have been warrior monk to support Angela with leaf saber, or Riesz should have been vanadis to get benefit from Kevin’s aura wave. Of course that’s based on the original, but the player seemed to go with the thinking “a fighter, a mage and a support caster is a balanced team” without actually taking into consideration what the classes are specifically doing to support each other.
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Mar 23, 2020 18:31
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I hope someone cracks the game before it comes out so they can just tell me where to put my points. I love this game but I do not like thinking about stat builds.
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Mar 23, 2020 18:45
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My child, before you can learn to cast Fire, you must first learn to cast FIST
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Mar 23, 2020 18:48
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Cipher Pol 9 posted:I hope someone cracks the game before it comes out so they can just tell me where to put my points. I love this game but I do not like thinking about stat builds. Eh, at least they let you respec. That should encourage experimentation and finding things out on your own. I can't play a lot of old RPGs because of the ability to "ruin" your character, and feeling like I need to use guides just to avoid that.
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Mar 23, 2020 18:54
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I’m more interested to see how cross class skills will play out for teams, since it seems like good odds there’ll be skills in stat trees that’ll be less useful for who learns it, but be super beneficial to someone else in their team to equip. Could lead to interesting scenarios like Duran pushing points into int for a skill for Angela to equip.
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Mar 23, 2020 19:19
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MH Knights posted:So do Stamina and Intellect affect how much your HP and MP respectively go up each level or do they only go up a set amount each level? Set amount, but certain characters get to put points into Stamina and Spirit trees to gain HP or MP boosts.
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Mar 23, 2020 20:16
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Heithinn Grasida posted:I broke down and watched a video and the stat system seems pretty bad. Kevin probably has it easy, but it looks like a nightmare for Angela. Either she respecs after every dungeon to pick up the next “correct” element, or she spreads her stats all over everywhere and never gets to boost int to see more damage from her spells. We'll see how this shakes out, but this complexity/difficulty in skilling looks like another welcome change from the total brainlessness of allocating SD3's stat points on level up.
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Mar 23, 2020 20:26
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Are Hawk’s Ninja Master/Nightblade spells governed by Int or Luck in this?
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Mar 23, 2020 21:29
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Captain Oblivious posted:Are Hawk’s Ninja Master/Nightblade spells governed by Int or Luck in this? Let's see. In the original, the Jutsus were governed by Int, while the Nightblade spells and Shuriken were governed by Dexterity. I know that Shuriken is governed by Luck in this due to my testing, and it's likely that the Nightblade spells will switch to Luck as well. The Jutsus are likely going to be Int-based.
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Mar 23, 2020 21:58
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I hope the spells get rebalanced so that nothing is completely worthless. I'm already a little regretful about my decision to go light with Hawkeye in my pre-remake-release run
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Mar 23, 2020 22:10
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Angela cast a spell on her own during a fight. The AI is good, finally.
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Mar 23, 2020 23:05
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Torrannor posted:We'll see how this shakes out, but this complexity/difficulty in skilling looks like another welcome change from the total brainlessness of allocating SD3's stat points on level up. Agreed that we’ll have to see how it plays out. Complexity is only good if it actually increases the number of viable, interesting choices. Starlancer seems fairly okay. You pump spirit to pick up your buffs, then go for either your summon, damage or defense. But Angela looks like she encourages constant respeccing for the elementally themed dungeons, which is really annoying. gandlethorpe posted:I hope the spells get rebalanced so that nothing is completely worthless. I'm already a little regretful about my decision to go light with Hawkeye in my pre-remake-release run Ranger is way weaker than ninja, but rogue is very strong on a magic focused team. Wanderer is amazing if you have someone who can benefit from aura wave. Otherwise it’s a lot of fun, but not strong enough at any one thing to be really good. If energy ball worked, it would be a much stronger and more interesting class. I think ranger was supposed to be balanced against ninja by having access to a full screen tech, but the tech balance was completely broken and the tier 1 was always better no matter what. Depending on how the abilities are spread out, ranger looks like it has the potential to be much better this time, since luck scales the damage of both your spells and melee, while the dark classes are unlikely to be able to be good at both (but will get debuffs to compensate).
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Mar 24, 2020 04:18
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Started playing through Hawkeye's intro, and well, I don't think Isabella is using magic to manipulate anyone O_O
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Mar 24, 2020 08:10
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Question I saw some Gameplay of Sword of Mana the remake of Final Fantasy Adventure and was wondering if anyone knows if the Crimson Wizard shows up in it, cause I saw that Goremand and Isabella do.
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Mar 24, 2020 09:20
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Only Goremand and Isabella got turned into recurring characters from Sword of Mana. Technically Dark Prince too. You’d be looking at the dragons from Legend of Mana if you wanted some recurring element for Crimson Wizard’s faction
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Mar 24, 2020 09:54
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Mana continuity is incredibly weird. We got Goremand and Isabella both showing up in Sword of Mana, we have a Lore Vandole who was ultra powerful and a Secret of Mana Vandole who was bitch, and we have Stroud showing up (as a different character?) in Dawn of Mana. Speaking of Dawn of Mana (a not-great game with some great music), holy gently caress is it depressing. That game's got one of the most "gently caress you, everything is terrible" endings I've ever seen. I've seen a lot of fans say that the Stroud in that game becomes The Dark Prince, but that doesn't really make sense because he dies. However, the protagonist of the game is technically royalty, and like the Dark Prince, he did kill the previous Archdemon. And since that game is basically about him losing literally everything in his life, I've always thought that it could work as a villain origin story. I wonder if the Trials remake will lean into any of that, seeing as how they're trying to tie stuff together with Anise.
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Mar 24, 2020 11:05
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I do kinda hope that the new fourth act in Trials of Mana doesn't go all grimdark and edgy, particularly since the series director loves to talk about how much he likes stories being melancholy and depressing. That's one thing I'm a bit nervous about. Well, worst case it can just be ignored like the extra Chrono Cross tie-in added to Chrono Trigger DS that afaik everybody hates.
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Mar 24, 2020 17:20
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Sapozhnik posted:the series director loves to talk about how much he likes stories being melancholy and depressing. Well in that case I hope he got Yoko Taro to write the thing
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Mar 24, 2020 17:27
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i always took most mana endings to be at least a little melancholy and depressing, but i also don't remember the ending to trials since it's been a decade plus.
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Mar 24, 2020 17:30
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 21:01 |
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It's pretty generic. Mana dies, but it'll come back, live out your lives in peace.
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Mar 24, 2020 18:23
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