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I've been putting this off for a while, I'm considering posting it here and linking to it from the OP slavery and you quote:I think slavery is fantastic and I want more of it quote:L-O-D-S-OF-E-M-O-N-E! what's that spell? LOADSAMONEY, probbly! You may note a number of the disorder factions (greenskins, norsca, skaven, chaos) have slavery mentioned in the lore, or have a building that gives bonuses to raiding income. The Dark Elves take this to another level as a mechanic. how do I get them Raiding, looting and sacking settlements, and as captive option from battle. Enslaving rather than ransoming the captives will generally pay out more over a few turns than ransoming and regenerate your units to boot so you should always take this option. can I demand them as tribute or buy them off the norscans as a trade good? no but it would be awesome I want to have a sustaining pop- NO income basics  this table (chained hands on the lower right near end turn, between rites and the sword of khaine) is useful for quickly checking if fruit pickers are being sent somewhere they shouldn't and if there's somewhere that's haemorrhaging workers. Slaves produce a bonus to your income, at the expense of public order penalties. This will apply to all buildings that produce income, not just slave pens/markets. This works in a non-linear fashion up to 200% bonus before modifiers (this means your buildings make 3x the money) when the province is full. Each minor/major city adds to the total allowed in the province, so a maxxed our naggaroth province (4 regions) will have space for 17.5k pieces of livestock. This bonus will stack before other bonuses eg the naggaroth capital / har ganeth special building multiplier. Take the following example:  Spite Reach is making 60 (+9) + 300 = 369 from buildings in its region. Har Ganeth's special building increases building income by 50%, bringing it to 553.5. From there, the base bonus is 16.3, with the slave pens, slave market and techs bringing that bonus to 24%. The Bonus will apply to the 553.5 bringing it to 685 (accounting for rounding errors) how do I get a bigger bonus? I want to stack them in one place for the mega bonuses on each province info screen instead of a 'tax province' button you have buttons to allocate slaves there in 1, 3 or 0 portions each time they are doled out. I strongly recommend filling one region at a time and only adding a second region once the first starts hitting 100%. stacking bonuses for ludicrous money There are plenty of ways to get bonuses to the bonus, usually done at the regional/provincial level but there are also techs and hero/lord abilities to stack even more -slave pens/markets give 10/25% bonuses respectively (see below for more details on these buildings) -roads give 5% alongside their other bonuses -13% from techs (your very first tech is 3%, there's a 10% one later on) -Malekith's Tyrant skill line has a 20% bonus -Khainite Assassins can get up to a 20% bonus -province edict has another 10% -probs some obscure poo poo I haven't seen like a name of power or whatever this stacks as a bonus-to-the-bonus. This is great for making even more money when the province is near 100% but you can't get a load of these bonuses on an empty province, put a handful of slaves in and be making double the income. the slave chain buildings There are 2 buildings that specifically work off a slavery bonus: slave pens 10g per 100 slaves in the province 10% bonus to slave income slave market 15g per 100 slaves in the province 25% bonus to slave income -50% to slave attrition(see below) These will not make a huge amount of money at first, but they will all work with indentured servants at the province level - additional buildings will make money off the same slaves, so it pays to make slave chain buildings in the same province: 400 slaves in one 4-region province, with 4 slave pens: 400/100 * (10+10+10+10) = 4 * 40 = 160gpt 100 slaves in 4 provinces, with 1 slave pen each (100/100 * 10) * 4 = 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 = 40gpt In addition, the bonus-to-the-bonus will also stack with the other buildings (55% with market + 3 pens), these are the biggest contributor to that bonus above techs and lords/heroes. A fully-populated, fully-upgraded region will make 1750gpt from pens, and 2625gpt from the market in the capital BEFORE BONUSES. This is significantly more than the money the dwarfs get from the brightstone mine at Mt Gunbad, and you have 4 of these buildings  attrition Over time your prisoners-with-jobs will -slave market reduces this by 50% in the province it is in -technologies reduce this by 15% in all provinces -Malekith's Tyrant line reduces by 10% in all provinces -  Masters have a skill to reduce by 10% in their local province-a building at Karond Car (Broken Lands, where the doomstacks land) reduces by 5% in all regions -Crone Hellebron has a unique skill to reduce by 20% in her local province These stack additively. with all non-unit bonuses stacked it comes to a 70% reduction, with hellebron and one of the 2 other bonuses your slaves never die. It is important to note that the attrition is proportional, and just because it says 0% on the summary sheet a small fraction of slaves are karking it each turn if you're not at 100% reduction summary how much money can I get off this?  and there's heaps of space to improve from there 
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Mar 23, 2020 14:20
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i mean naggaroth does occupy the North America slot on the warhammer world map
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Mar 23, 2020 14:25
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Shumagorath posted:Has CA confirmed the Greenskins update is on hold? Obviously I can't fault them for it. Maybe I can finally get around to a Malus campaign with all this spare time. I don't think they've made an announcement at all. I know people who work at CA who've all just transitioned to working from home, no idea what they're working on obviously but they are still working somewhat. I would think if they can they'd definitely want to get it out still, cynically now is going to be a very good time for digital products as you have a large audience of people who have not much else to do.
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Mar 23, 2020 14:53
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There have been a lot of replies on it already, but I just finished a 175 turn game on ME as Ikit so here are my two cents...appropriatemetaphor posted:How do i siege battle as Ikit? I've been drilling the towers/walls down with the drill dudes and trying to shoot dudes off the walls with the ratling gunners. This doesn't seem to work too well. All of this is mostly moot once you can get Poisoned Wind Mortars, though. They win you any siege. Put two or three of them in any army along with your Jezzails, Ratling Gunners, Plagueclaws, and Warp Lightning Cannons and you can win any siege with zero losses, even if a full stack is garrisoning a level 5 capital.
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Mar 23, 2020 16:28
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Once Ikit has his doom wheel and you get the skill for "cast a spell, gain regeneration" he can solo a ridiculous amount of hold outs behind the walls. This was key for me winning a few sieges where my army comp wasn't particularly good at the time or I was lazy with ammo management.
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Mar 23, 2020 17:45
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Warp lightning works on walls, you can brass orb right by the gate and it'll affect troops on the wall, you can send the warp driller guys (forget name) in front of the walls and just spam the quake ability (also works right in front of the gate) It's all about cheesing it
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Mar 23, 2020 18:34
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Other cheese: Vamp shadow lady with tormentor sword flying over AI troops so they blob up together, lock them down and cast upgraded pit of shades
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Mar 23, 2020 18:35
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a lot of skaven units can just casually open the door (by hitting it a bunch) with relative ease, so you don't even have to get too fancy.
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Mar 23, 2020 19:11
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Though that still runs into the problem of them not being super good on the assault if you try to funnel them all through the front door. Maybe a use for the hell pit abomination other than as target practice for the guns.
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Mar 23, 2020 19:16
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Games workshop just posted an Old World update of a new Kislev unit. Though this is for their Old World revamp game that’s a few years out, I feel this helps the argument that Kislev will be a game three faction.
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Mar 23, 2020 19:53
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CA confirmed on reddit that their initial timeline for the next WH2 dlc is still in place, and nothing has changed yet.
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Mar 23, 2020 20:01
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Awe yiss, Winged Lancers
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Mar 23, 2020 20:35
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Winged lancers are a bit meh when you've got actual pegasus and griffon cavalry.
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Mar 23, 2020 20:49
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What if said Winged Lancers were riding bears?
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Mar 23, 2020 21:02
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Oh yeah I forgot kislev got bear cavalry that's pretty neat.
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Mar 23, 2020 21:05
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Nash posted:Games workshop just posted an Old World update of a new Kislev unit. Though this is for their Old World revamp game that’s a few years out, I feel this helps the argument that Kislev will be a game three faction. Link for those interested. My thought process on WH3 is that GW and CA are going to coordinate on it, somewhat. Kislev might actually get the treatment it deserves. Hoping Cathay ends up with the same love (and ends up in WH3).
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Mar 23, 2020 21:07
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I'm having fun with vamp coast but the economy feels weird. Extremely feast or famine. One turn I sack two cities and whup and army and suddenly I'm at 20k gold, 5 turns later I'm at 1500 with -2k upkeep because my handful of pirate coves can't cover two armies. Thankfully that last part is kinda over and I'm in slight + now, but it still feels odd. Also the moneymaking ritual feels so loving stupid in practice, why does the game want me to try to hold on to a bunch of province capitals with -30 public order and half a dozen factions ready to assault the moment I move half a screen away? Because I'm not going to do that game. I'm going to just stick to my capital only for this campaign. Luckily it doesn't take away from Big Guns. They may not be the best, but they sure are Big.
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Mar 23, 2020 22:24
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The big secret to winning siege battles as skaven is poison wind mortars. Just blow up any offending towers and then rain unending AoE dots on the defenders. I have 3 in every army and i just breeze though sieges.
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Mar 23, 2020 22:29
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Noir89 posted:The big secret to winning siege battles as skaven is poison wind mortars. Just blow up any offending towers and then rain unending AoE dots on the defenders. I have 3 in every army and i just breeze though sieges. yeah its pretty disgusting how powerful they are against siege defenders
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Mar 24, 2020 04:20
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 ¡Hola Skinks!
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Mar 24, 2020 09:36
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Goddamn I feel bad for neglecting Outriders w/ grenade launchers on previous Empire attempts. These dudes absolutely annihilate massed infantry. Not sure I feel about the latest DLC units though. Archers are nice early game but outclassed by crossbows, huntsman have a legit but niche use, but war wagons just seem inferior to outriders or pistoliers. What am I missing? The mortar wagons are alright though.
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Mar 24, 2020 16:18
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Grenade outriders are absolutely great yeah, like imagine if ekrund miners had longe range and were cavalry and you could have as many as you wanted. War wagons are just pretty crap in vanilla though, they lack the volley fire of a handgunner regiment and they're not really fast enough to be good skirmishers. They sort of trickle out damage over time, but not much of it at all. Their one saving grace is that they can fire over things due to their height, but that's not enough to make them worthwhile. Legend of total war put them as his worst unit in the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2JwwVv21Ns I like that SFO adds the ammo supply ability to them, makes them very useful to have one in your army, but I still wouldn't bother with any number of them. The mortar ones are serviceable but I would debate their general utility compared to normal mortars though, less range and ammo, and you rarely want to reposition your mortars at speed. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Mar 24, 2020 |
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Mar 24, 2020 16:21
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I find even the mortar wagons pretty underwhelming because mortars of all siege suffer the least from immobility and LoS. They have a use case for driving forward to bomb the AI out of a position you can't deploy in range of. Other than it's just more expensive, worse mortars but they can escape better if you're getting beaten.
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Mar 24, 2020 16:24
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Eschatos posted:Goddamn I feel bad for neglecting Outriders w/ grenade launchers on previous Empire attempts. These dudes absolutely annihilate massed infantry. Not sure I feel about the latest DLC units though. Archers are nice early game but outclassed by crossbows, huntsman have a legit but niche use, but war wagons just seem inferior to outriders or pistoliers. What am I missing? The mortar wagons are alright though. War Wagons are just trash, you arent doing anything wrong. War Wagons with Mortars are good, though, especially in sieges or when fighting Skaven.
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Mar 24, 2020 16:26
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I find even the mortar wagons pretty underwhelming because mortars of all siege suffer the least from immobility and LoS. They have a use case for driving forward to bomb the AI out of a position you can't deploy in range of. Other than it's just more expensive, worse mortars but they can escape better if you're getting beaten. Yeah exactly, they're not like horse guns in Empire or whatever, there's just no call for high mobility mortars, IMO. The hellblaster regiment is infinitely more useful. Especially because, for the number of mortars you're likely to use, you would be much better off using sootson's guns for the magic damage and no friendly fire.
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Mar 24, 2020 16:26
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OwlFancier posted:
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Mar 24, 2020 16:56
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah exactly, they're not like horse guns in Empire or whatever, there's just no call for high mobility mortars, IMO. The hellblaster regiment is infinitely more useful. Mobile great cannon I might use before I got steam tanks. Basic war wagons just aren't worthwhile though and need to do a lot more damage.
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Mar 24, 2020 18:30
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Ok built some Skaven mortar dudes and whoa those guys just nuke all those punks sitting on the walls. Also lol at the warp grinder AOE affecting guys up on the walls, very handy too! Not I'm having some trouble with the army comp. Like I've got: 1 x Ikit Claw (in the lightning hamster ball thing) 1 x Warlock spellman 6 x Warp Grinders 3 x Warplock Jizztails 6 x Ratling guns 1 x rolly ball dudes that i started with 1 x mortar guy 1 x laser canon The mortar and laser are the regiment of renown version since I could hire them real quick (was sieging down Tilea's capital while Bretonia was sieging one of my cities so wanted to hurry). I've also got a chaff army of: 1 x Warlock guy 19 x lovely spears and slaves. Figure this is basically one army, since all the turd chaff dudes are nice just to throw at the enemy. Any changes to make it better? Running on VH/N difficulty.
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Mar 24, 2020 18:42
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War wagons are especially poo poo but I feel similarly about most skirmishing units. Obviously you can't have a devastatingly powerful ranged unit that is very difficult to catch (aside from maybe one-of-a-kind RoRs) because that would be blatantly, ridiculously overpowered, so skirmishers need to pay for their mobility/survivability and range with low dps. But at that point it's like, why is this unit even here? It does some trivial amount of damage in a very safe way and might as well not even be present because it has no meaningful impact on the battle, existing primarily to take up an otherwise valuable unit slot. At least infantry that does no damage serves as a great meat shield to protect your other units. The only non-RoR skirmishers I ever take on any faction are outrider grenadiers and waywatchers. Admittedly I haven't really messed with the new Dark Elf chariot skirmishers though. Vargs fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 24, 2020 |
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Mar 24, 2020 18:51
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Vargs posted:War wagons are especially poo poo but I feel similarly about most skirmishing units. Obviously you can't have a devastatingly powerful ranged unit that is very difficult to catch (aside from maybe one-of-a-kind RoRs) because that would be blatantly, ridiculously overpowered, so skirmishers need to pay for their mobility/survivability and range with low dps. A lot of skirmishers get far more use in MP. Part of that is because armies tend to not be 20+ units a side, part of that is because armies have value caps so you're not bringing chameleon skinks instead of a carnosaur, and part of that is that mobility and harassment are just far more useful against a human. Humans can be baited and provoked and tricked with skirmishers in a way the AI really can't even though, objectively, yes, the human is a better player.
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Mar 24, 2020 19:03
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They're especially egregious I think given the empire gets pistoliers, free company, and outriders, all of which are better at firing into the flank of the enemy which is the main thing I use skirmishers for. Wheel them around once the enemy engages your line or blocking troops and shoot them in the back, especially good with direct fire troops like guns, and speed is very helpful there. They can also chase down fleeing troops or pick off lords.
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Mar 24, 2020 19:34
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Ok built some Skaven mortar dudes and whoa those guys just nuke all those punks sitting on the walls. Also lol at the warp grinder AOE affecting guys up on the walls, very handy too! For preference I would suggest more rolly bois. Doom flayers are a great unit for gun heavy armies because unlike skavenslaves they don't block your own gunfire. Just mash them into enemy formations and they throw them all over the place, and give you plenty of time to shoot them. They are also pretty tough and do decent damage too. I've not used warp grinders cos i don't have the DLC but they seem pretty squishy when I fight against them, so I'd maybe replace like three of them with more flayers and one with an extra artillery piece. This should give you a lot more mobility in field battles too to pin down enemy units. I'd also probably swap out one unit of ratling guns for an extra unit of jezzails if only because I really like jezzails and five ratling guns is more than enough to deal with most chaff, while jezzails tend to use all their ammo and are very good at picking off actually dangerous stuff like large units, lords, and heavy infantry. Flayers can also deal with chaff en-masse so again, you don't need as many ratling guns if you bring more of those. Maybe even swap two ratlings for jezzails if you've got the ammo regen upgrade. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Mar 24, 2020 |
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Mar 24, 2020 19:39
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Yeah, you've got too many grinders there. Drop a few, add some flayers, add some more artillery. Maybe switch some ratling guns for more jezzails. You can probably dispense with the trash army at this point too.
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Mar 24, 2020 19:41
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Outrider grenade launchers have ruined me. I don't think there is a better unit in the entire game with the amount of speed and damage they have combined. A lot of my empire battles end up being a tar pit while I just micro one or two grenade launchers around and blow apart the enemy front lines Elite units or chaff it doesn't even matter, they just delete delete delete
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Mar 24, 2020 19:44
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The Duggler posted:Outrider grenade launchers have ruined me. I don't think there is a better unit in the entire game with the amount of speed and damage they have combined. A lot of my empire battles end up being a tar pit while I just micro one or two grenade launchers around and blow apart the enemy front lines They're fragile as gently caress so any range-heavy army can make them gently caress off for awhile.
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Mar 24, 2020 19:48
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Ravenfood posted:Yeah, you've got too many grinders there. Drop a few, add some flayers, add some more artillery. Maybe switch some ratling guns for more jezzails. You can probably dispense with the trash army at this point too. More jezzails just because they have more range? And yeah the grinders have seemed kinda meh as a sorta solo frontline. Will try the flayer thing instead.
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Mar 24, 2020 20:19
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Elyrion Reavers with bows are also outstanding skirmishers. They lose basically no stats compared to their melee counterparts so you get a competent light cav unit that now also has a bow. They perform extremely well and are a core of my he armies until I get dragon princes.
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Mar 24, 2020 21:01
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appropriatemetaphor posted:More jezzails just because they have more range? And yeah the grinders have seemed kinda meh as a sorta solo frontline. Will try the flayer thing instead. They punch a lot harder. Ratlings have great area saturation and the ammo regen is nice, plus they slow things down, but they're not very good at actually killing things other than by spraying bullets into a crowd. Jezzails put shots right on target where you point them, which makes them far more deadly, but not very good at killing massive numbers of troops. But massive numbers of troops aren't really a threat to an army full of flayers with some ratlings in support, the real threats are large, monstrous, or cavalry units, or lords. All of which jezzails are much better at killing. They're also much more useful in a siege than ratlings are as they can pick things off walls. You have, generally, all the time in the world to flayer/magic/ratling gun down hordes of chaff, but dangerous targets are time sensitive and dependent on your supply of jezzail ammo to kill, so more of them is generally good. Plus they absolutely work on normal infantry too, they're just not very efficient, but if that's all you're facing they can totally shoot up regular units without a care. They will make short work of midrange infantry, they just can't kill like a dozen regiments of it fast enough. But use your jezzails to knock out their cavalry/monster/lord/wizard support and you can spend the rest of the time kiting the basic infantry round the map with ratlings, warp lightning, and doom flayers. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Mar 24, 2020 |
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Mar 24, 2020 22:27
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appropriatemetaphor posted:More jezzails just because they have more range? And yeah the grinders have seemed kinda meh as a sorta solo frontline. Will try the flayer thing instead.  Obviously change it up as it suits your tastes, but I know that that lineup works - I had thirteen of those armies stomping around by the end of my Ikit Claw VH/VH campaign and I never lost a battle. You can attack and take a tier 5 settlement with a garrison enhancing building and a full stack in it, with no losses, with one those armies. The one thing that can be damning to that army is bad terrain, but once to learn to watch for little rises that block the direct-fire LoS and that kind of stuff you should be fine. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Mar 25, 2020 |
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Mar 25, 2020 01:15
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:You can go full gunline now that you can recruit all those things, if you think you would enjoy it. Warp Grinders are NOT a line-holding unit. Yeah they have the AoE damage and movement stopper, but they are bad in a melee even if Ikit's Forbidden Workshop upgrades, so if you want to have a tarpit I would go with Skavenslaves or Clanrats. This type of army is my favorite comp: yea this is good but add at least one more engineer. the bonuses stack + 2 with maxed movement bonus means you can move forced march distances with normal movement. i also dont bother with warp lightning cannons or warpfire throwers (although both are fun and cool).
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Mar 25, 2020 01:19
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