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I click in the touchpad on the knuckles to switch weapons and it seems to work pretty well! That being said I think Boneworks inventory is superior, including the tilt-up-to-eject method, which is just incredibly bad-rear end. Edit- I also really do not like some of the newbie friendly mechanics. In Boneworks and especially H3VR you have to be very accurate with your reload/racking movements and it feels so good when you get it right. HL:Alyx does some weird autosnap animations when you're 'close enough' and it just doesn't feel as good as it should  That being said, there's so much good in this game. The gravity gloves are incredibly fun to use. I love that I can have smooth locomotion on along with the option to teleport. I've never had that combo available before and it's really good. Haptical Sales Slut fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Mar 24, 2020 |
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Mar 24, 2020 06:54
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Lemming posted:Edit: although I would like to emphasize that the weapon switching is basically just inexcusably bad in my opinion, clicking the joystick to see a floating hud and make everything magically appear and disappear in your hand is sacrilege as far as I'm concerned. I know they wanted no visible IK body and arms but god honestly it was just straight up a bad decision, I'll fight anyone on that Yeah, it's kind of a baffling decision, VR games figured out a better way to do this four years ago. And from what I've read, there are only three weapons in the game, which makes it PERFECT for holsters. Pistol on one hip, machine gun other hip, shotgun on the back, grab ammo off your chest. Having the joystick control your dash, weapon selection, and turning is a goddamn mess. I accidentally activate the wrong thing constantly when I'm being attacked. Oh, and having the position of the weapon selection menu be determined by your hand position when you click is maddening. I'm playing seated (not my normal thing but I'm ill) and I regularly can't access something because I triggered the menu too low. The game is exactly what I expected, a super solid Half-Life game with some poor VR design decisions. I still think it's great, but it's frustrating to see how close it is to being way better. I am really looking forward to the mod community changing the weapon selection to holsters, adding jumping and running, and adding damage from melee weaponry. Why even have all these physics items laying around if I can't bash a headcrab to death? Oh, one other thing, I'd also like the magnetic holsters from Stormland so you can just drop your guns and have them fly into their holsters.
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Mar 24, 2020 07:06
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Melee VR combat has been such a pervasive part of VR games that I feel they very deliberately decided to ignore it because of how often it reduces gameplay down into awkward flailing with physics that never feels quite right. Even the new Walking Dead VR game boiled the melee down into more essential and basic mechanics dependent on weapon type, stamina, and pulling your weapons out of enemies during a messy situation so that you're spending more time assessing a scenario and the best response instead of just running in and swinging your arms. It feels like an actual game instead of a half-assed physics simulator, which Boneworks has serious issues with. VR games have been constantly reiterating the same gimmicks that were interesting at first and developing on them in a linear fashion while hardly ever considering what they can do to make them compelling elements of an actual unified, overarching design. Those kinds of loose, sandboxy designs can be fun in games like Gorn, but when you play something like Boneworks it just seems like a disparate, jumbled mess of "cool stuff" instead of a coherent experience, which is a rare experience to have in VR games. They left out melee to focus on creating a balanced, polished and coherent experience that feels immersive and engaging instead of just another glorified physics playground where you swat at things, and I honestly prefer it for that.
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Mar 24, 2020 07:07
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Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:They left out melee to focus on creating a balanced, polished and coherent experience that feels immersive and engaging instead of just another glorified physics playground where you swat at things, and I honestly prefer it for that. I'm not talking about making melee combat a focus of the game. You can already pick up a brick and smash enemies with it, I fail to see how it's a positive that it does nothing. I have had lots of points in the game where I'm out of ammo and it would be nice to have some option at that point. The first time I died in the game it was because I ran out of ammo and I was being attacked by a headcrab and I foolishly thought hitting it with a brick would have some effect. It really took me out of the game when nothing happened. Also one of the most fun things in Half-Life 2 was improvising with the gravity gun, being able to use the items laying around as a weapon is a staple of the series at this point.
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Mar 24, 2020 07:11
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A lot of the design decisions in this game feel like they were nailed in around circa 2016-2017 looking at games from around that time (the weapon/tool inventory's right out of Budget Cuts, for example), and they just never went back and updated after that. This would've been a mind-blowing VR game in 2016-2017, but now I think it's "merely" a good one.
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Mar 24, 2020 07:14
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I just remembered another design decision that annoyed me, invisible barriers. There are places in the game where they block you with invisible barriers, and some places where they block physics items with invisible barriers. Totally immersion breaking in VR for the box I'm carrying to suddenly stop because you don't want me to take it off the platform it's on. And even worse, a little farther on there's a dark hallway you can't go down because there's an invisible wall until you get a flashlight. There are so many better ways to handle this, why not just let me wander into the dark and bumble around until I either get killed by monsters or get sick of not being able to see anything? Or why not just, you know, introduce the flashlight before the dark hallway? I don't remember them ever doing this in the other Half-Life games.
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Mar 24, 2020 07:31
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Tip posted:Yeah, it's kind of a baffling decision, VR games figured out a better way to do this four years ago. And from what I've read, there are only three weapons in the game, which makes it PERFECT for holsters. Pistol on one hip, machine gun other hip, shotgun on the back, grab ammo off your chest. Dead on all of that. What's so frustrating about it is like you say, it feels like it's so close and the frustrations any because if necessary tradeoffs, they're just frustratingly intentional design decisions
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Mar 24, 2020 07:31
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Alyx is my first VR shooty game and when I got in my first fire fight with a couple combine soldiers I felt like a total badass, ducking behind cover, pooping out to fire off a mag and then ducking back down to reload. And I grabbed a body and heaved it up to get a little extra cover on my off side while reaching around it to fire at the other shooty mans. Good fun, pretty awesome. And yeah, the russels are ace. And gently caress the bits in the dark, oof.
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Mar 24, 2020 07:34
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Lemming posted:Edit: although I would like to emphasize that the weapon switching is basically just inexcusably bad in my opinion, clicking the joystick to see a floating hud and make everything magically appear and disappear in your hand is sacrilege as far as I'm concerned. I know they wanted no visible IK body and arms but god honestly it was just straight up a bad decision, I'll fight anyone on that OK, let's fight! First, I'm guessing you're on Oculus? With knuckles, it's a trackpad click rather than joystick, and feels quite smooth. I can definitely see where a joystick click would be annoying (maybe remap it to the B button and chamber rounds manually?). But I really can't imagine preferring a holster system. In Boneworks, the holsters were a source of constant annoyance. I'd frequently end up losing a weapon because I thought I holstered it but actually just dropped it on the ground and moved on (and was in a noisy area so I didn't notice the missing sound effect). I'd often have to try multiple times to pull out a weapon. And if I'm crouching? The fuckers just straight up don't work, because the holster spots on the IK body are no longer anywhere near any part of my actual body. At a more fundamental level, I think we have different perspectives on where immersion comes from. You seem (and correct me if I'm wrong) to feel immersed when things in VR work like they do in real life, so having to do game-y things takes you out of the experience. From my perspective, I'm immersed when the game UI gets out of my way and lets me do the cool poo poo I want to do without having to fight against it. Alyx's weapon select menu is fast, easy, and I can use it without looking, so it keeps me in the game.
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Mar 24, 2020 08:08
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Thoom posted:OK, let's fight! A holster-based inventory doesn't have to mean "lol, you drop your gun and it's gone". Some games with a relatively-fixed inventory just have them snap back on release to their "holster" position on your avatar's anatomy. It's far and away better than having it arbitrarily fixed to a single hand, and more natural to just reach down and get something out of your pocket. Nevermind just HOLDING it if you're using Index Controllers (which, the game's kinda meant to showcase). Especially when you need to grab something out in a hurry like a gun. The inventory UI fails for me because if I'm doing, say, a puzzle and need a weapon in a hurry my first thought isn't gonna be "I'll just swap the macguffin to my non-shooty hand so I can shoot back!  ", it's gonna be "I'll get my gun out with whichever hand's free".
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Mar 24, 2020 08:22
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Alyx is loving great. It's all the polish of every other valve game in VR, and that's excellent. Every complaint in this thread is valid, but I don't think any of them are massive enough to detract from the world valve has built. What is though, is the fact that putting a bucket on your head doesn't make you immune to headcrabs
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Mar 24, 2020 08:27
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Thoom posted:OK, let's fight! Yeh Boneworks has a lot of jank, but if you look at stuff like Pavlov and Onward, they do a really good job of having stuff work consistently and being available a really high percentage of the time. I think it was an interesting experiment to go full everything physics, but I think it did lead to some of those negatives I think it's a more important distinction than that, though. I'm not looking for games to work like in real life, I'm expecting the game itself to be a consistent universe. It doesn't need to have our rules, but it does need to have rules. Alyx is actually a perfect example of both; the gloves feel really good and very immersive because you have a tool that makes sense. Then also your guns all pop in and out of existence for no reason and there's a floaty hud that's just... there, somehow. You interact with some other people who have full bodies, but you look down and it's just air. You physically climb up a ladder, and then once you're close enough to the top, you warp into place (incidentally, I lost a minute or so at the start with that ramp because I was trying to climb that pipe that was obviously there for me to climb, oh, no, you're just supposed to teleport over) That said I think what you're saying about making things consistent and easy is what they were going for, but I just disagree with it 1000%. You know what's easier than manually reloading? Automatically reloading. You know what's way more fun? Yeh. I don't disagree that effectiveness and ease of use is important, because absolutely nothing breaks the illusion faster than trying to do something and the game getting in your way, but to me that just means that doing things well in VR is harder but it's still worth doing Seriously it's way more fun to carry a bucket and put all the extra consumables/nades/key items in it than it is to use those stupid pocket dimension wrist slots to put junk in
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Mar 24, 2020 08:29
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Neddy Seagoon posted:A lot of the design decisions in this game feel like they were nailed in around circa 2016-2017 looking at games from around that time (the weapon/tool inventory's right out of Budget Cuts, for example), and they just never went back and updated after that. Yeah, there is definitively a 'two sides of the same coin' effect here. This had a 4 years development, which is why it looks so great, it's so polished, etc. But it's also why some VR related decisions are so conservative. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Mar 24, 2020 |
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Mar 24, 2020 08:39
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Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:Melee VR combat has been such a pervasive part of VR games that I feel they very deliberately decided to ignore it because of how often it reduces gameplay down into awkward flailing with physics that never feels quite right. While I love Gorn because it's over the top, I recently had to deal with grounded Melee in Boneworks and this sums it up, it's janky and doesn't feel right. I'm really glad that there isn't any of this in Alyx, but I really wish we could have knocked over and stunned if you whack them with a plank or toss a brick at their head.
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Mar 24, 2020 08:49
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Alyx is fun as hell and I'm enjoying it a bunch. I agree with the interface and control criticisms, but it's still fun as hell because it's Very Half-Life. Feels weird to actually be creeped out by a headcrab now that the fucker is jumping at "my" head and aiming isn't as easy as putting it in the middle of my screen and clicking. Re: melee damage (very early game spoiler): right before you face your first zombie head-on without a wall or a barnacle trap between you, there's a door that you need to open by grabbing and removing a metal pole; a perfectly sized "beat something to death" metal pole. The door has a window, so it's obvious that as soon as you open this door, the zombie is gonna come at you. So my gamerbrain was thinking "okay, this perfectly sized metal pole is clearly placed here to indicate that I can and should beat the zombie to death to save ammo." Then I smacked it, and... nothing. It didn't even stumble back. That was a letdown, as it felt like the devs didn't have an obvious "what would the player expect this to do?" moment thought through. Anyway, the atmosphere is Half-Life as gently caress, it's slick and polished, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it despite some dated VR'isms. Good poo poo.
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Mar 24, 2020 09:17
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The lack of melee is weird, given that this is Half-Life we are talking about. Crowbar, anyone?
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Mar 24, 2020 09:21
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Turin Turambar posted:The lack of melee is weird, given that this is Half-Life we are talking about. Crowbar, anyone? Yuuuuup. I reflexively tried to beat a headcrab to death with my pistol after deflecting it to the ground with a bucket. Then I remembered "oh right, video game rule" and shot it a bunch instead. Definitely a game that immerses you with its world but not with its gameplay.
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Mar 24, 2020 09:26
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Turin Turambar posted:The lack of melee is weird, given that this is Half-Life we are talking about. Crowbar, anyone? Also Half-Life 2's very much been a "lookit the neat physics!" game, and beating the poo poo out of headcrabs with random debris should be a natural extension of that.
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Mar 24, 2020 09:28
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I kind of like the decision because flailey physic vr poo poo is dumb. However there should be at least something. Like a stagger or something (and there kind of is?). I do think some of their choices are a bit odd but drat the polish is just so good. And the story and world is SO immersive. I find myself just staring at stuff and interacting with the weird gross wall plants. Also how the new med stations work is hilarious, poor grub!
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Mar 24, 2020 09:46
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Skyarb posted:I kind of like the decision because flailey physic vr poo poo is dumb. However there should be at least something. Like a stagger or something (and there kind of is?). "VR Melee" doesn't have to automatically mean flailey physics modelling perfect velocity to mean the difference between stun and knockout. All you really need is just a damage trigger for object in hand striking something. It's nice and friendly to accessibility issues, and still gives something to do with random clutter against headcrabs. On a side-note with HL: Alyx, considering the game's functionally 4 years old in its designs I'm curious to see what kind of evolution the Russels took. I bet there's some neat Gravity Gun pistols or something lurking in an early build.
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Mar 24, 2020 09:59
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Neddy Seagoon posted:"VR Melee" doesn't have to automatically mean flailey physics modelling perfect velocity to mean the difference between stun and knockout. All you really need is just a damage trigger for object in hand striking something. It's nice and friendly to accessibility issues, and still gives something to do with random clutter against headcrabs. Even the games that tout good realistic melee (gorn, or that other sword game whose name I'm forgetting) they still boil down to flailing nonsense because there is no actual weight you are holding. Bone works did it well and it was still flailing nonsense
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Mar 24, 2020 10:21
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Skyarb posted:Even the games that tout good realistic melee (gorn, or that other sword game whose name I'm forgetting) they still boil down to flailing nonsense because there is no actual weight you are holding. Bone works did it well and it was still flailing nonsense Gorn is not an example of 'realistic melee' wtf. In games with realistic melee, flailing doesn't work because the weapons won't make any damage if they don't travel enough space and with enough acceleration.
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Mar 24, 2020 10:44
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This is one of the most awkward torches I've had to work with in HL:Alyx. Why on earth would you place it on your off-hand, the one that's going to be moving about to reload or interact with things in the dark, rather than your shooting hand that's going to stay level? Or even better; the headset?
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Mar 24, 2020 12:00
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I put on a hard hat and my wife thought it was funny.
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Mar 24, 2020 12:01
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I hope they will allow enough modding to swap the hard hats for mining helmets with lamps.
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Mar 24, 2020 12:10
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Neddy Seagoon posted:This is one of the most awkward torches I've had to work with in HL:Alyx. Why on earth would you place it on your off-hand, the one that's going to be moving about to reload or interact with things in the dark, rather than your shooting hand that's going to stay level? Or even better; the headset? Doom 3 nostalgia! With that, I refer that they seem to have ignored the obvious solution (duct tape, or put in on the pistol) because they wanted for the player to lose light for a moment when they reload, interact with things, etc. It's scarier!
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Mar 24, 2020 12:24
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Turin Turambar posted:Doom 3 nostalgia! It's frustrating because it's in VR and breaks kinda immersion a little. The only way it works is for Alyx to be a complete idiot to want it placed in the worst spot possible out of all the options on-hand (  ).
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Mar 24, 2020 12:30
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They didn't do body pouches/holsters because over the shoulder is the only body position accessible to sitting play. They went hard on accessibility for the control scheme, and that limited some of their design choices.
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Mar 24, 2020 13:13
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GlyphGryph posted:They didn't do body pouches/holsters because over the shoulder is the only body position accessible to sitting play. They went hard on accessibility for the control scheme, and that limited some of their design choices. I can play Saints & Sinners just fine seated and that had body slots all over the place.
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Mar 24, 2020 13:13
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Alyx does some stuff incredibly well, some games just have a certain clarity and sense of depth that is somehow better than others, I'd put Robo Recall in this bracket too, but HL:A does it so well it's uncanny in places, like looking through the window when you get to the bit where you can write on it, it's really crisp, clear and gives you a real sense of being there. There is part where you get a shrink wrapped headcrab out of a fridge and I spent a good 5 mins just looking at it, it had real substance and just looked amazing. After I instinctively tried to kick a box out of the way I knew I was in that VR zone where the illusion was complete and my brain was fooled, I can;t ask much more than that. And oh god the health terminals are so cool / funny I giggled way too much when I saw those.
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Mar 24, 2020 14:32
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how workable is Alyx on an oculus quest? I have a 1060 which I imagine is under-speced for the index, but I'm not sure how that factors in with the reduced resolution/framerate of the quest. i7 4770k and 16gb ram
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Mar 24, 2020 15:28
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There are a whole bunch of people in the Steam thread and the half life thread who clearly think using a VR HMD is basically just a giant 2D screen in a dark room and it’s infuriating.
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Mar 24, 2020 15:37
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w00tmonger posted:how workable is Alyx on an oculus quest? I own a Vive, but I've been playing it on my Quest. The pace is slow enough that the lower refresh doesn't really matter and the sharpness is actually significantly better. It's a great way to play the game.
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Mar 24, 2020 15:38
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:There are a whole bunch of people in the Steam thread and the half life thread who clearly think using a VR HMD is basically just a giant 2D screen in a dark room and it’s infuriating. Shadows on the cave wall etc
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Mar 24, 2020 15:39
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Mar 24, 2020 15:46
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SCheeseman posted:I own a Vive, but I've been playing it on my Quest. The pace is slow enough that the lower refresh doesn't really matter and the sharpness is actually significantly better. It's a great way to play the game. awesome, have you hosed around with wireless at all? I've only ever done the link cable config and not the virtual desktop streaming
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Mar 24, 2020 15:47
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I don’t know if it’s the knucks or the game but man is it easier to draw well than before. I need to go see how it is in Rev room or whatever.
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Mar 24, 2020 15:56
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Shine posted:I put on a hard hat and my wife thought it was funny. Put a respirator mask on as well, wouldn’t want to spread Half Life: Coronavirus The mask also gives you a second layer of protection against barnacles, so you can avoid two grabs
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Mar 24, 2020 16:10
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:There are a whole bunch of people in the Steam thread and the half life thread who clearly think using a VR HMD is basically just a giant 2D screen in a dark room and it’s infuriating. The people that are mad about Alyx being VR only and claim that they have used VR before and didn't care for it are lying. One go around in any 6DOF headset with tracked hands and it becomes immediately clear. Just imagine how S L O W Alyx would be if it were a typical keyboard and mouse game, goddamn.
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Mar 24, 2020 16:23
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:There are a whole bunch of people in the Steam thread and the half life thread who clearly think using a VR HMD is basically just a giant 2D screen in a dark room and it’s infuriating. they are very dumb GlyphGryph posted:They didn't do body pouches/holsters because over the shoulder is the only body position accessible to sitting play. They went hard on accessibility for the control scheme, and that limited some of their design choices. I was impressed by the accessibility stuff they had available, but I couldn't find anything that enabled a seated mode? I tried to sit down but I was just super short in the game world. Is it a SteamVR enabled thing? anyway, as an aside, all of the holster systems I've encountered in VR games so far have been janky as hell, I'm glad they didn't go with that approach here edit: it's "Height Adjust: Stand" in accessibility options punished milkman fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Mar 24, 2020 |
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Mar 24, 2020 16:23
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