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weapon durability in botw was a good mechanic imo
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Mar 25, 2020 14:47
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Nothing quite like taking a weapon on the verge of breaking and hurling it at an enemy so that it shatters against them for the killing blow.
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Mar 25, 2020 15:05
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No you see weapon durability is a garbage mechanic because it makes me think and plan around resources in my post apocalyptic adventure game. I hate thinking and planning!!!
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Mar 25, 2020 15:54
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The durability stuff in Breath of the Wild was annoying busywork. I played the game twice and never liked it.
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Mar 25, 2020 15:59
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Mr Phillby posted:No you see weapon durability is a garbage mechanic because it makes me think and plan around resources in my post apocalyptic adventure game. I hate thinking and planning!!! It is a garbage mechanic because it turns your weapons into garbage. 
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Mar 25, 2020 16:02
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Tool durability is garbage in exactly the same circumstances that horror game flashlight batteries are. If the game is supposed to be immersive durability fucks it up because it reminds you you're in a video game due to how artificially flimsy your tools are. Flashlight batteries last hours in real life, why does this thing barely get through one room? But if the game is just built around meticulous number tracking that is fun in and of itself it's fine, because there is no danger of throwing me out by reminding me I'm playing a video game.
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Mar 25, 2020 16:03
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I think we should land a killing blow on YouTube with a low-durability weapon and watch both explode magnificently.Pants Donkey posted:Durability is a different beast in each game. In botw it can make progression feel empty because there is no permanence whereas Animal Crossing isn’t that kind of game. Also you can eventually earn unbreakable tools in the latter. Of course if you just outright hate your poo poo breaking then these differences are not going to matter much. Some friends of mine were talking about gold axes breaking in the new AC. Is that a bug or are there other unbreakable tools now?
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Mar 25, 2020 16:05
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i didn't think in context weapon durability was too bad when you build up a small stockpile of reliable fixable weapons over time and get all your major tools almost immediately
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Mar 25, 2020 16:05
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Nuns with Guns posted:Some friends of mine were talking about gold axes breaking in the new AC. Is that a bug or are there other unbreakable tools now?
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Mar 25, 2020 16:08
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Captain Invictus posted:Of course gold axes would break, why would you make an intense usage tool out of a really soft metal and expect it to survive long at all? Listen here, Golden Axe created certain expectations within me and those expectations are NOT BEING MET
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Mar 25, 2020 16:10
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Being serious, I understand why people don't like durability mechanics. In most cases of it my feelings run from total indifference to actively loathing them, but for whatever reason it really clicked for me in BotW. It's got nothing to do with immersion but just about how fun the core loop of Explore -> Fight -> Loot was for me. Also, hard disagree to whoever said that the abilities you get for clearing dungeons were boring and useless.
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Mar 25, 2020 16:37
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the only problem with durability I had was Lynel equipment. they should've been 5x more durable for how hard it was to kill the fuckers in the first place.
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Mar 25, 2020 16:46
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I have a lot of problems with BoTW, but the breakable weapons have to be near the top of the list. It would have been alright if it was like Fallout 3 where they broke down relatively slowly and could be repaired, but instead they break after just a few hits like they were all made of cardboard. It’s exactly like the flashlight thing.
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Mar 25, 2020 16:58
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Listen here, Golden Axe created certain expectations within me and those expectations are NOT BEING MET I'm sorry the player had enough quarters to get past you, Death Adder.
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Mar 25, 2020 17:08
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Schwarzwald posted:I'm sorry the player had enough quarters to get past you, Death Adder. Who knew that my greatest enemy would be copper? Also, mods change my name to Absurd Adder, thanks.
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Mar 25, 2020 17:12
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I didn't play BOTW, but weapon durability really makes UI problems noticeable if you have to navigate a bunch of menus to re-equip and/or maintain your weapon.
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Mar 25, 2020 19:00
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Durability is one of those mechanics where you can't just say whether you like or dislike it because it's part of broader issues with how combat scales. Snapping a tree branch over a bokoblin's head to steal their weapon and throw it at their friend is fun and emphasizes mastery of the combat system over avatar strength, but as inventory slots and individual weapon durability scale up it becomes a matter of maintaining a comprehensive but fairly static inventory. Breakable weapons should either only last 1-2 encounters (with some mechanic in place to discourage hoarding) or should be unbreakable. On top of that shields and bows are so durable/ubiquitous/interchangeable that they might as well not have durability at all.
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Mar 25, 2020 19:17
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BOTW was pretty good about letting you readily swap weapons and shields, since it had a quick swap menu for them bound to the left and right buttons on the D-pad. I can agree that BotW does have a gameplay loop with all the looting you can do, although I feel more like it was inconsequential than an enjoyable loop. That said, someone mentioned how you can throw the weapon for a guaranteed critical hit when it’s about to break, and by god I have to agree that it is VERY satisfying to just slam an axe into a Bokoblin’s face so hard that it explodes. I also have to disagree hard with whom ever said that the beast abilities weren’t great. Aside from the auto-rez one being a bit boring, they were pretty handy and intuitive to use. The only issue I had was that they wouldn’t start to recharge until you exhausted all of your casts.
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Mar 25, 2020 19:26
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Just throw bombs bam durability no longer exists.
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Mar 25, 2020 19:33
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That’s the only way I was able to get started on Master Mode. You have to become the Mad Bomber what Bombs at Midnight.
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Mar 25, 2020 19:38
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Bomberman Forever.
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Mar 25, 2020 21:00
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Durability has always sucked in anything other than a beat-em-up, in my experience. Final Fight and Yakuza were fine. BoTW really needed more enemies and weapon types. I'm gonna hope that 2 lets you forge weapons at some point.
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Mar 25, 2020 21:15
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Auto-rez is good since it either lets you survive falling off a mountain or laugh at Link dying twice from falling off a mountain.
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Mar 25, 2020 21:30
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Netflix has a new cartoon show! It's loving bad and reminds me why I stopped subscribing to Netflix.
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Mar 25, 2020 21:37
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rudecyrus posted:Netflix has a new cartoon show! It's loving bad and reminds me why I stopped subscribing to Netflix. 
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Mar 25, 2020 21:48
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I don't really get the weapon durability complaints in BoTW at all. I didn't like at first but you get like a hundred weapons in two seconds and they're constantly available. Just hit enemies with them a few times and throw them because you have plenty more, and you can use them for puzzles or environmental things like lighting them on fire without worrying because there's always another one somewhere. The way people talk about it you'd think you go around the game with no weapons half the time.
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Mar 25, 2020 21:50
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rudecyrus posted:Netflix has a new cartoon show! It's loving bad and reminds me why I stopped subscribing to Netflix. that show used to be on Comedy central. it wasnt funny than either.
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Mar 25, 2020 22:51
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Casey Finnigan posted:I don't really get the weapon durability complaints in BoTW at all. I didn't like at first but you get like a hundred weapons in two seconds and they're constantly available. I can only speak for myself, but in my case it mostly comes down to two factors. For one, I'm a compulsive hoarder of consumable items in games. I'm the person who'll come to the final boss of every Final Fantasy and have a ton of megalixirs and stuff on hand because I've never used them until that point. Making every weapon into one of these consumable items is a particuar kind of irritating from that standpoint. Secondly, I love the feeling of collecting and upgrading my equipment, and getting attached to certain items. I enjoy collecting stuff that feels cool, powerful, special. BoTW has the master sword but you only get that late in the game, everything else is literally disposable. Compare that to previous Zelda games where there were far fewer weapons but getting each one felt like a huge deal that gave you a permanent upgrade.
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Mar 26, 2020 00:21
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The only game I like weapon durability in is New Vegas because it appeals to my inner micromanaging self and it lets me break the game economy
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Mar 26, 2020 00:21
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Also you can repair weapons in New Vegas.
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Mar 26, 2020 00:56
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS8gxx3oUsk Youtube's 18th century chef, here to talk about how we handled disease in the 18th century.
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Mar 26, 2020 01:26
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here's the thing about this whole durability argument: i fuckin never see anyone talk about why it's actually good. any defense always comes down to 'it isn't THAT bad' or 'it sucks at first but you get used to it'. if that's the strongest defense of a game mechanic, it is a Bad Mechanic. RareAcumen posted:Durability has always sucked in anything other than a beat-em-up, in my experience. Final Fight and Yakuza were fine. i think there is a way for durability to work. i think it's fine in an rpg like morrowind, where a: you're building and roleplaying a character who can be a weaponsmith b: weapons last long time before actually breaking and instead their attack power (very slowly) decreases rather than the item just breaking after 20 hits, and c: you have multiple options to repair your weapon even if you don't want to do it yourself i think there is an actual argument to be made for this style of durability. i don't think there's any argument to be made in favor of what botw does.
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Mar 26, 2020 01:35
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Hot take, assuming that like in n Botw weapons are replenishable... How is durability different from ammo?
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Mar 26, 2020 01:40
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a sword shouldn't have an ammo counter
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Mar 26, 2020 01:42
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Alaois posted:a sword shouldn't have an ammo counter Why?
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Mar 26, 2020 01:44
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u guys would point out the pointy knees of Mona lisa
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Mar 26, 2020 01:46
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Weapon durability is good because it is good when games make you feel bad for even a single second. This is why the time limit in Majora's Mask is good, also. The hostility many gamers have towards any kind of inconvenience or disempowerment is not an indication of an objective flaw in game design; it reflects player impatience and an industry that is reticent to deny players unqualified gratification. Nintendo are masters of game design because of their willingness to be abrasive or unintuitive when appropriate, balanced by aggressive polish and precision elsewhere. Sometimes this ideology is misapplied - their attitude towards online play is partly a result of this instinct, not exclusively incompetence. Nonetheless, that instinct is valuable. Lastly, the gut-level hatred of these mechanics is principally the domain of old farts. When kids at work talk about BotW, weapon durability is never a criticism.
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Mar 26, 2020 01:50
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:here's the thing about this whole durability argument: i fuckin never see anyone talk about why it's actually good. any defense always comes down to 'it isn't THAT bad' or 'it sucks at first but you get used to it'. It's good because it forces a player to experiment with multiple types of weapons which can have interesting environmental effects in combat, and also encourages a player to not hoard weapons in a game where many, many puzzles can be solved by thinking outside the box and using your weapons and their characteristics. In a game with unbreakable weapons you can't so easily have a situation where you need to connect two electrical thingies and end up thinking to yourself, "hey, I have a metal spear that can do that, I'll just drop it here and leave it." Or if you're in a cold place with no protective clothing and decide to light a wooden weapon on fire to warm up, which destroys it. If the spear or staff or stick was unbreakable, you'd be forced to spend time considering whether that was worth it in terms of combat effectiveness and players who are inclined to hoard would never even try to do half the stuff you can do in the game. I doubt people would even throw their weapons for the risk of losing them. If they had the same amount and variety of weaponry without them being breakable, inventory would be an unmanageable mess. If you reduced the amount of weapons and made sure to put these special weapons near the puzzles where you need them, you lose all of BotW's adaptability and end up just making regular video game puzzles. The game is clearly designed around the weapons being breakable. Casey Finnigan fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 01:50
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DoctorWhat posted:Weapon durability is good because it is good when games make you feel bad for even a single second. This is why the time limit in Majora's Mask is good, also. The weapons were boring as poo poo and it never felt exciting to find another guardian sword or w/e. Durability is good, it was not good in BOTW.
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Mar 26, 2020 01:58
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You should have been able to repair the weapons in BOTW by visiting town blacksmiths, but the durability wasn't a bad thing. I used a bunch of weapons I otherwise wouldn't have and was forced to scavenge mid-battle for something to fend off the hordes with, which was fun.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:04
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