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If they don’t fire Bucky beaver it will still be unwatchable.
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Mar 29, 2020 07:35
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Anytime people say HHH would be better than Vince they are talking about putting on an entertaining show not that he would magically erase all of the companies lovely practices. Even at it's worst NXT is at least watchable which is way more than you can say about Raw or SmackDown.
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Mar 29, 2020 07:36
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Gumball Gumption posted:I do wonder how much Vince stuff HHH would keep around. Would they stop choreographing entire matches and just let the wrestlers go? Would they loosen up on the bizarre language? Would tag teams exist? I genuinely think most of the things that made people hate HHH as a wrestler (politicking, burying midcard guys and tag teams for no reason, endless screen time, thinking he was a bigger star than Rock or Austin) wouldn't really affect how he runs the company. It feels like just the fact that he'd be in charge would be enough to satisfy his ego. Whether it's a good or bad product under he and Stephanie is I think unrelated to those things. With Vince, he has all these bizarre, irrational personal issues and biases with things, like his banning of certain words or phrases, the way he has to rigorously script every little thing so he's in 100% complete control of every aspect, hating tag teams and factions because they're basically mini-unions and empower wrestlers to stand up to him more firmly, and the fact that he seems to be totally OK with the job Kevin Dunn and his aggressively poorly trained crew are doing. Maybe I'll be proven wrong but I don't think Trips will have that dramatic and specific of an influence on the product, just because he's, while still pretty far away from it, a lot closer to "normal" and "rational" than Vince.
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Mar 29, 2020 07:42
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The thing that gives me any sliver of hope is that Triple H at least seems to enjoy wrestling. Listening to Hardy's interview with Jericho, he talks about how Vince didn't understand Ultimate Deletion, but as long as it popped a rating, it was fine. It did well and he killed it anyways. A few years back, Trips said he didn't get why the NXT crowds popped for certain things, but at least to my memory, I don't recall him actively trying to kill anything down there. Business wise, nothing will ever change. WWE will never not want to monopolize, no matter who is in charge, but creatively, I can't see him being any worse. He and his crew in NXT took tag wrestling seriously, took women's wrestling seriously. They've poached guys at their hottest and now are plucking indie guys when they show some potential. He always seems to know what people like. Part of me assumes his ego and maintaining his "cool dad of NXT" image will be enough to not craft a horrible main roster product. But shoot me dead if he doesn't fix the main roster camera cuts.
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Mar 29, 2020 07:50
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JT Smiley posted:Anytime people say HHH would be better than Vince they are talking about putting on an entertaining show not that he would magically erase all of the companies lovely practices. Even at it's worst NXT is at least watchable which is way more than you can say about Raw or SmackDown. Like, even just removing all the "humor" only Vince has ever found funny would be a big improvement
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Mar 29, 2020 08:13
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Eat My Fuc posted:The tag match with Corbin Becky and Seth was great, other than that she’s fine I don’t feel strongly either way about her work. I’m not sure anyone in here watched the match though. Sounding suspiciously like a rovert parachute account with this post
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Mar 29, 2020 08:21
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Dell_Zincht posted:Sounding suspiciously like a rovert parachute account with this post Mike Kurtz is Rovert?
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Mar 29, 2020 08:31
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skaboomizzy posted:I'll watch it because I fully expect to be under lockdown by then and there will be absolutely nothing else on. You could start a Nuzlocke run in a Pokemon game and then immediately abandon it when your starter gets merked by a Rattata.
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Mar 29, 2020 08:34
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JT Smiley posted:Anytime people say HHH would be better than Vince they are talking about putting on an entertaining show not that he would magically erase all of the companies lovely practices. Even at it's worst NXT is at least watchable which is way more than you can say about Raw or SmackDown. That's it. It'll still be a lovely exploitative employer but HHH is a wrestling dork at heart while Vince is deeply embarrassed his success comes in wrestling. Meanwhile HHH practically worships old NWA champs like Race and Flair
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Mar 29, 2020 08:34
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MorningMoon posted:All the elements are deffo there. It's been said a lot, much less as of late, but if Vince died and HHH was put in charge of creative, everything would be much better simply because you can half-rear end it and get something magical due to the sheer talent on the obscene number of talent signed on. Back when NXT was first catching fire at Full Sail, a lot of people were praising the product and how well booked it was. Looking back (and even at the time), it's clear that Dusty and the people who were following him were just doing... simple territory booking. The fundamentals of wrestling writing. The fact that this was notable compared to WWE's standard shows isn't a commendation of NXT but a condemnation of WWE.
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Mar 29, 2020 08:39
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NXT's booking was very simple, but I'd still say it was genuinely good and the way they presented people, while basic, was very compelling and deserving of praise right up until about when they pushed all their chips in on DIY and UE. NXT's biggest weakness was always its repetitive main events and I'd say that it's become its achilles heel. I just remember thinking Aleister Black was one of the coolest motherfuckers in the world and part of that is because he's an absolutely phenomenal talent, but they also presented him in a pretty unique, special way........right up until they completely stopped doing it and he got A Guyed harder than anyone has ever gotten A Guyed. Because of all that other stuff I mentioned.
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Mar 29, 2020 08:48
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Don't get me wrong, I think NXT was well booked, but the biggest part of its writing success was not letting booking get in the way of talent. They decided who was facing who and built to it in a meat-and-potatoes way. Like competent professionals would. This is also largely what's worked with AEW's booking so far. With a couple of exceptions most of the builds to big matches have been emergent from character and action. Cody wanted to fight MJF because MJF betrayed him, and MJF put obstacles in his way. Hangman Page felt alienated from his group which led to tension and bullying. Darby was injured by Sammy Guevara and wanted revenge. Simple, but good. And the simpler it is, the more universal it is. Lamuella fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Mar 29, 2020 |
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Mar 29, 2020 08:58
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WWE main roster makes some of the best wrestlers in the world look like jobbers, NXT makes people who are basically at the minimum level of competence look like good workers. It's weird. MJeff posted:NXT's booking was very simple, but I'd still say it was genuinely good and the way they presented people, while basic, was very compelling and deserving of praise right up until about when they pushed all their chips in on DIY and UE. I don't think you're wrong that those elements are overpushed, but I kind of get it just because they're a group of guys whose main roster outlook is kind of dismal so them being the stable elements that are always on the show as Vince takes and breaks the next NXT dude passing through makes sense to me.
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Mar 29, 2020 09:10
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Rick posted:WWE main roster makes some of the best wrestlers in the world look like jobbers, NXT makes people who are basically at the minimum level of competence look like good workers. It's weird. Turns out practicing a match beforehand helps a lot
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Mar 29, 2020 09:11
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skaboomizzy posted:There is a group of about twenty wrestlers on the WWE main roster where you could just pick two at random, tell them "you've got 25 minutes, steal the show" and they could put on a ****+ match. Remember the SmackDown 6? WWE could have that several times over, but they don't. They could have SmackDown 6s on every show.
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Mar 29, 2020 09:16
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Andrast posted:Turns out practicing a match beforehand helps a lot Good wrestlers don't have to.
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Mar 29, 2020 09:20
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Maybe there is a difference between intense practice where you still have input in the process and learning a choreography complete with character beads you had no say in...
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Mar 29, 2020 09:25
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Just a random thought I have sometimes, whoever slapped the lone wolf biker gimmick on Baron Corbin should be fired. That should have been kicked up and saved for Roman after The Shield broke up. The look, entrance and music change would have been so good for his whole deal. Nope. Get ready for five years of, "'Member The Shield?"
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Mar 29, 2020 09:28
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Rick posted:WWE main roster makes some of the best wrestlers in the world look like jobbers, NXT makes people who are basically at the minimum level of competence look like good workers. It's weird. I get that. But that doesn't mean they need to be the entire focal point of the show and every Takeover. For context, here's a couple of stats. The last Takeover to not have a main event that is UE/DIY-centric (as in both sides of the match are UE or DIY): Takeover Phoenix, January 2019, Aleister Black vs. Tommaso Ciampa The last Takeover to have a main event that has anybody from UE or DIY: Takeover Brooklyn III, August 2017, Drew McIntyre vs. Bobby Roode. UE didn't even exist until the end of this show. That is a stunning amount of homogeneity in the main event. You could cycle these guys through the midcard for a while, it'd be fine.
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Mar 29, 2020 09:30
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MJeff posted:I get that. But that doesn't mean they need to be the entire focal point of the show and every Takeover. For context, here's a couple of stats. drat, yeah I had no idea it's been that long since someone else was involved.
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Mar 29, 2020 09:40
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Dell_Zincht posted:Good wrestlers don't have to. There have been plenty of great wrestlers who wanted to meticulously plan out their matches beforehand
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Mar 29, 2020 09:48
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Andrast posted:There have been plenty of great wrestlers who wanted to meticulously plan out their matches beforehand That's because they were great entertainers, not great wrestlers.
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Mar 29, 2020 09:50
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I get all of my WWE info from this thread and the gifs that get posted on twitter. I stick around because goofing on WWE's trash decisions and reminiscing about the past is fun and funny. Over the past year I've switched to watching NJPW, AEW, DDT/TJPW, and STARDOM and all of those are better-booked promotions with better match quality and better character work. And I don't speak the language most of them are in.
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Mar 29, 2020 09:52
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Dell_Zincht posted:That's because they were great entertainers, not great wrestlers. Pretty sure being entertaining is the whole point of wrestling so that seems like semantics in this case
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Mar 29, 2020 09:52
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Andrast posted:Pretty sure being entertaining is the whole point of wrestling so that seems like semantics in this case Sure, but you should still be able to tell a wrestling match on the fly. The fact that WWE won't let it's wrestlers do this is why most WWE matches are utter dogshit.
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Mar 29, 2020 09:56
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I find all these George Lucas comparisons insulting. There are, after all, many people who enjoyed the Star Wars prequels, and when Lucas cashed out Star Wars was still worth a couple of billion just for the promise of being able to make more. More importantly I don't think he's covered up any murders.
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Mar 29, 2020 09:56
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Dell_Zincht posted:Sure, but you should still be able to tell a wrestling match on the fly. The fact that WWE won't let it's wrestlers do this is why most WWE matches are utter dogshit. See I'd always heard the opposite- that WWE's style was to have much of it called in the ring, and one problem DDP had when coming over was that he was used to blocking things out spot-by-spot beforehand.
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Mar 29, 2020 09:57
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Dell_Zincht posted:Good wrestlers don't have to. Good wrestlers have good matches and I don't give a single flying gently caress if they're improvised entirely in the ring or rehearsed a bunch to get exactly the story that the wrestlers (not the insane old lunatic running the company) want to tell told. The Bayley/Sasha Takeover matches were apparently rehearsed a bunch and they're the stronger for it, and I wouldn't want to lose those for anything, and Savage/Steamboat was an all-time classic that was laid out in exact detail and is the stronger for it.
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Mar 29, 2020 10:03
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Maxwell Lord posted:I find all these George Lucas comparisons insulting. Well, none I've been able to prove anyway....
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Mar 29, 2020 10:03
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Dell_Zincht posted:Sure, but you should still be able to tell a wrestling match on the fly. The fact that WWE won't let it's wrestlers do this is why most WWE matches are utter dogshit. "you should be able to" and "you should always have to" aren't the same thing necessarily. Dave Gilmour could stand up right now and do a 5 minute guitar solo over whatever someone was playing. It doesn't mean that there's no point to him ever rehearsing with a band.
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Mar 29, 2020 10:16
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Jerusalem posted:Good wrestlers have good matches and I don't give a single flying gently caress if they're improvised entirely in the ring or rehearsed a bunch to get exactly the story that the wrestlers (not the insane old lunatic running the company) want to tell told. The Bayley/Sasha Takeover matches were apparently rehearsed a bunch and they're the stronger for it, and I wouldn't want to lose those for anything, and Savage/Steamboat was an all-time classic that was laid out in exact detail and is the stronger for it. See, I personally think Savage/Steamboat has diminished as a great match in my mind because of just how rehearsed it was. Same with Bret/Bulldog at Summerslam '92 after reading in Bret's book just how much he had to carry Davey Boy. Also from my own personal experiences of having matches and only planning out the big spots beforehand. I just think it's a skill all wrestlers should strive to have, that's all.
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Mar 29, 2020 10:23
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I stayed up til 4am last night watching Smackdown cos gently caress it, what else am I gonna do under lockdown? Here are my thoughts: Michael Cole was very good. When Nikki Cross came out to do commentary with him for the Asuka/Bliss match there was some genuinely funny moments. The Smackdown women's championship thing at the start with both Lacey Evans AND Tamina in the same ring was so painfully bad I had to skip it. Bryan and Gulak are great. The program with Sami Zayn, Nakamura and Cesaro is really good and and you can smell Bryan's input all over it. Elias getting thrown off the balcony by Corbin was hilarious. Like... not the worst Smackdown I've ever seen, I have to say.
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Mar 29, 2020 10:36
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Maxwell Lord posted:There are, after all, many people who enjoyed the Star Wars prequels People who say the Star Wars prequels "weren't that bad" are worse than WWE fans imo.
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Mar 29, 2020 10:48
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I'm willing to believe Hunter would be better at running a promotion than Vince but just being better doesn't make it good One aspect that would be absolute polar opposite is Vince's desire to keep himself off of tv entirely versus THE CREATOR, THE SHOVEL MAN, THE FIFTY NICKNAMES, THE SELF-WORSHIP MASTURBATORY CHAMPION, probably on your tv a hell of a lot during important moments to insert himself into them Dusty built FCW/NXT and there is absolutely a place in the market right now for simple territory storytelling. NWA Powerr wanted to be this but they're a fuckin hokey youtube show that no one sees. wwe is never gonna beat aew in flashy cool poo poo or workrate so in the long-term, if they have a long-term, which I am hoping they won't, simple territory poo poo would be a great place to pull ideas from. I just don't think they have anyone left that can. Dusty's gone
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Mar 29, 2020 10:55
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Michael Cole was very good. When Nikki Cross came out to do commentary with him for the Asuka/Bliss match there was some genuinely funny moments. Cole dejectedly following along with the chants Nikki was trying to start with just the two of them was a lot of fun  Dell_Zincht posted:Same with Bret/Bulldog at Summerslam '92 after reading in Bret's book just how much he had to carry Davey Boy. Quite honestly makes me like that match (and Bret in particular) even more.
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Mar 29, 2020 11:04
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Anybody taking over the WWE would get rid of every McMahon and Levesque if they had any sense.
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Mar 29, 2020 11:36
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An outside taking over WWE would have no chance. They'd have to clean out so much toxicity at every single level and if you dump the McMahons, which is obviously where you'd start, the stock would probably tank.
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Mar 29, 2020 11:40
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Ad by Khad posted:I just don't think they have anyone left that can. Dusty's gone If only Dusty had left behind an heir to his legacy who was an expert at updating territory booking for modern audiences 
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Mar 29, 2020 11:55
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Why hasn't Wednesday's NXT been uploaded to the network?
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Mar 29, 2020 12:11
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Dell_Zincht posted:See, I personally think Savage/Steamboat has diminished as a great match in my mind because of just how rehearsed it was. Same with Bret/Bulldog at Summerslam '92 after reading in Bret's book just how much he had to carry Davey Boy. My personal theory about why people think true artists don't need any practice is that it's one way of living in hope that they too could do cool poo poo without actually working for it. Like there is a Wrestling Chosen One who puts on great matches just by virtue of being the Chosen One. But every single wrestler practices, if not a specific match, then huge chunks that they stitch together into a match "spontaneously". The idea of matches without practice is laughable.
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Mar 29, 2020 12:42
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