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hobbesmaster posted:This sounds like the path to star citizen though. Star Citizen is literally just claiming to do what the logical extension to space sim games has been for years though. They're hardly the first group to do so too. Though, by all accounts their efforts seem to be more about parasitizing the attempt to integrate the two environments rather than actually making a finished product. Logically speaking, once you have the shooty and tradey bits in then the question of what content to expand on becomes one of walking around the ship and the stations and all the other locales. It's not really fair to say that it's a Star Citizen thing too. Plenty of games and MMO's have tried to integrate the two environments into one cohesive game. EVE Online tried and failed at this too during what was probably the height of their management's ineptitude. Seriously, go watch some of the interviews. Especially the one where the dev said he wanted to make a bit of in game art "Schwooop" (He just made a weird sound and then walked off.) or something like that. Their management was literally so bad that it literally cratered two other MMO's. One of which was in development. Likewise, Star Trek Online for better or worse tried integrating space and ground content to arguable levels of quality. Ditto for Elite, which I believe has at least a bit of on ship content. The genre has been pushing that way for years. It's just that the Star Citizen "devs" realized they could hop on the attempt to scam a lot of gullible people out of their money. The problem is that since the genre is so barren of developers able or willing to go there that most attempts tend to be garbage or glorified scams. At least Egosoft has actually put out two games demonstrating the concept and is by all accounts following the same "Release a game, release patches and expansions to improve the concept, release a new game a few years after the previous one is feature complete even deepening the concept." they've had for years like they did with X2, Terran Conflict, and then Albion Prelude. Even Rebirth falls into this pattern. Archonex fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 22:27
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The thing I have to keep reminding myself is they called the game "Foundations" for a reason and it's actually a complete game, even if I don't like the direction they took some things It's nice not needing mods for my frigate turrets and drone fighters to do things though
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Mar 31, 2020 22:33
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RBA Starblade posted:The thing I have to keep reminding myself is they called the game "Foundations" for a reason Yeah. I posted way back in one of the threads about this but both Rebirth and Foundations aren't really breaking the mold when it comes to how Egosoft makes games. Just look at the older X games. They release a comparatively simple concept, patch in as many features as they can, and then eventually go to work on making a newer version that expands on what they learned from the previous game. This has been how they worked since the days of X2 and X3. Heck, Rebirth was literally titled Rebirth for a reason. Ditto for Foundations. It's essentially the foundations for a universe sim that they're slowly building. It's an iterative process. Only one that actually sees huge changes over time instead of pumping out the latest reskinned game like Madden or CoD. Ironically, a part of me wonders if they'd have had better sales over time if they had labeled Foundations as an early access game. Given all the stuff they've added and changed since then it's clear that they never really intended the release state of Foundations to be the final state of the game. Then again, maybe they'd have taken some flack for being a major company that released an EA game. 
Archonex fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 22:37
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Hey, by the way - before I dive into X4, is it still basically essential to drop advanced satellites in key sectors around the place, like in X3? Or is that not necessary/possible anymore?
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Mar 31, 2020 22:52
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You don't need to, a lot of stuff seems to work without it, but it's certainly helpful, I think. Or at least drop regular satellites (advanced ones are very expensive) near clusters of stations/shipyards.
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Mar 31, 2020 22:54
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Major Isoor posted:Hey, by the way - before I dive into X4, is it still basically essential to drop advanced satellites in key sectors around the place, like in X3? Or is that not necessary/possible anymore? There's a mod for a sector wide sat, or there was at launch. Personally planning on give it a week or so for some mods for the annoying parts then trying out this expansion. Time to dust off my of flight gear, I need a better spot for the peddles this time on the floor is too low, on top of the NAS is just high enough that my knees hit the desk unless they are angled. I guess someone I'm waiting for someone else to take the plunge. X is a vert a game where lots of fine details are simulated, some of them you will not enjoy others you will really enjoy. Use mods to remove the parts you don't like, or at least let you automate it if that feels to cheaty. Have fun, don't play the dev's vision that's the boring baseline.
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Mar 31, 2020 22:55
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Speaking of mods is there any reason to care about ventures? How do I even get a venture dock? Unrelatedly does the ai ever eject or abandon ship in X4? I've never even seen a pirate fire a gun (only a smuggler) but I loved salvaging wrecks for startup capital in X3. If not is there a salvage command suite mod to put all that in?
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Mar 31, 2020 22:57
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Major Isoor posted:Hey, by the way - before I dive into X4, is it still basically essential to drop advanced satellites in key sectors around the place, like in X3? Or is that not necessary/possible anymore? It's something you might want to do in certain places. Satellites will get attacked by hostile factions however. And since faction warfare has become a big thing in balancing the industry out in the last patch or two it's almost certain if the Xenon penetrate the playable species sectors that your satellites will get blown up. Also, I believe dropping satellites near a station is a good idea if you want to track a certain station's market prices. Given the size of many sectors just dropping one in the middle of many of the sectors is no good because of how big they are. You'll only get a small amount of info about the area compared to X3's "drop one satellite and get the whole area" setup. I wouldn't say it's necessary given that and the fact that there's a massive super highway connecting many trade heavy sectors. Though between the Xenon wrecking everything as a game goes on and the expansion maybe that's changed. The big thing is having all the sectors discovered. Which requires scouting. Thankfully I think there's a mod for that. Alternatively you can just download the cheat mod and use the satellite command to place one in every system so that it discovers them for you. quote:Unrelatedly does the ai ever eject or abandon ship in X4? I've never even seen a pirate fire a gun (only a smuggler) but I loved salvaging wrecks for startup capital in X3. There's a lot of that. I think some AI will. In addition to that there's special randomly generated wrecks of both ships, lockboxes, and stations you can explore. There's a heck of a lot more EVA content in this one. We're talking "maneuvering with a two man fighter and your EVA suit around the abandoned wreck of a mini Albion Prelude era solar collector to restore power to it and gain access to the loot in it's innards." levels of EVA content. There's also lockboxes. Which require special tools to open or really good accuracy with a weapon. And probably some other stuff i'm forgetting. In addition to that you can straight up hijack ships from factions if you know the trick. Stations can have people spawn in them that want you to find an abandoned ship. If, before getting this mission you chance across the ship you can just steal it with no penalty. Since they have no idea who you are, obviously. Rarely you can get some frigate sized ships with this. This also applies to lockboxes. Archonex fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 22:58
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Wait what's special tools? Is there another way than shooting the locks off?
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Mar 31, 2020 23:03
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OwlFancier posted:Wait what's special tools? Is there another way than shooting the locks off? There's two ways I know of. If you have the suit laser you can use that. It takes forever and in most guides i've seen is the recommended method. However certain ship sized weaponry is so pinpoint that you can with extreme care just blast off the four locks real quick with it. If you have a steady hand it's actually the better method. However if you botch the latter method it'll probably destroy the box. If you aren't confident of your aim or your ability to stop shooting before the lock goes up you're best off slowly burning the locks off with the suit laser. There's also the wrecked stations that have special relays you need to repair. If you have the repair laser you can gain access to a bunch of lore items and some pretty good loot in their special lock box. Not sure if those are randomly generated over time like the lockboxes and ships though. Archonex fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 23:06
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Archonex posted:Ironically, a part of me wonders if they'd have had better sales over time if they had labeled Foundations as an early access game. Given all the stuff they've added and changed since then it's clear that they never really intended the release state of Foundations to be the final state of the game. Then again, maybe they'd have taken some flack for being a major company that released an EA game. Last time I checked, Egosoft were just a couple dudes working in literally their boss' house. I wouldn't call them a "major company", they're more like a tiny indy studio, even if they're around for long enough most people tend to forget this. I think they have less then twenty people working for them, if you count absolutely everyone
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Mar 31, 2020 23:14
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Archonex posted:If you have a steady hand it's actually the better method. I don't remember having too much of a problem with my joystick but if you are it should be easy with a good mouse: Toggle to mouse aim, crank the DPI down to 300, some gaming mice even have a button you can hold for super low DPI intended for sniping (you're basically sniping the locks).
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Mar 31, 2020 23:16
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Is egosoft really that major of a company? In thought they had only a single team and basically were one flop away from having to close th doors. Is my impression of their finances wrong? I've always seen them as closer to indie than AAA
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Mar 31, 2020 23:24
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Libluini posted:Last time I checked, Egosoft were just a couple dudes working in literally their boss' house. I wouldn't call them a "major company", they're more like a tiny indy studio, even if they're around for long enough most people tend to forget this. Sadly, I think this probably doesn't matter to most people. The perception i've seen on Steam is that they're a big company because of their success and the scale of their games. Still, EA might have been the better option.
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Mar 31, 2020 23:25
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Muon Chargers are great for popping lock boxes because as long as you barely tap the trigger (and DON'T CHARGE IT UP) you can accidentally hit the box all the live-long day and it doesn't seem to take any damage at all.pixaal posted:Is Egosoft really that major of a company? In thought they had only a single team and basically were one flop away from having to close the doors. That's absolutely the case, yeah.
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Mar 31, 2020 23:26
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Egosoft are definitely in that niche 'European 20 person studio that makes one game from a dead genre's space. Also strongly disagree with Early Access as s good idea. It sets an expectation that you will 'finish' the game at some point, when each X release is just a phase in the evolution of the same game. Egosoft would get accused of abandoning their fame to cash in on the sequel. Same reason Parsdox will never do EA if they're smart.
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Mar 31, 2020 23:31
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Yeah they literally work out of bernd's house, as you can see by the fact they're on corona isolation but he's streaming from the same cupboard they normally stream from 
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Mar 31, 2020 23:32
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Wait what? Where are these ruined stations to loot? I had no idea!
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Apr 1, 2020 00:14
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You will sometimes find derelict stations, they show up with the long range scanner, they look like blasted apart regular stations except if you look close they have intact sections you can EVA into and solve a puzzle to get loot, I got the final SETA piece that way.
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Apr 1, 2020 01:19
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OwlFancier posted:You will sometimes find derelict stations, they show up with the long range scanner, they look like blasted apart regular stations except if you look close they have intact sections you can EVA into and solve a puzzle to get loot, I got the final SETA piece that way. There's also some weird stuff out in the generated areas of systems. What looks like a hive, stations and ship wrecks big enough to fly into, etc, etc. Seems like they wanted to make it possible to explore outside the radius of the pregenned areas. But i'm guessing that's just infrastructure for something to come and something made them ignore that for the time being. Some of the lootable stations also don't show up on scanners. Maybe they changed it but you've got to learn where all the "interactable" bits are to get inside of it and identify it by sight. Archonex fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Apr 1, 2020 |
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Apr 1, 2020 02:32
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I think the stations generally ping purple but you do have to notice the interactable sections, which I didn't for several days of playtime, hence why I also didn't have SETA for several days of playtime. The weird stuff in the outer edges of sectors I think is just there to be weird, like the derelict deca mothership and the weird yellow cloud full of tubes.
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Apr 1, 2020 04:43
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I got Seta four hours in through lucky xenon scavenging
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Apr 1, 2020 05:02
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So it looks like, for crew training: - You can buy basic (gets them up to 1 star) and 1-star (gets them up to 2 star) piloting or management seminars from any Trader; each trader seems to sell between 1 and 3 of each at a time. - They're real cheap, 100 to 200 credits or so, so stock up and just have them on hand. - For the first two stars, at least, it's three seminars per star. - Talk to the pilot in the seat, giving him a seminar will be a dialog option. It's instantaneous. I haven't seen any seminars for 2-star pilots, so I can't say anything about the next levels. I believe they only show up as mission rewards. Squiggle fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Apr 1, 2020 |
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Apr 1, 2020 05:35
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Faction missions routinely award seminars, yes.
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Apr 1, 2020 08:18
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I bailed on the Teladi Company quest chain because of that mine thing, I'll get another one randomly genned later right? For right now I need to get 7 more rep to buy their smart chip plans, so I'm patrolling to raise rep and get the cool million I need for it anyway. Structure finally achieved  I'm using the free Osprey Vanguard you can get right now and an Elite, I need to start bulking up again. I might just, to explore the galaxy, go for every abandoned ship and have a ghost fleet, since the thing to trigger the HQ plot has never happened yet (there's nothing at all to close scan anywhere apparently). e: Also, how do I build a venture dock? I don't have one available to plop down apparently. Figured out the ventures, got the plot quest, hooray RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Apr 1, 2020 |
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Apr 1, 2020 15:35
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Did they improve the explore command? I'm noticing that my little Discos are revealing more of the sectors a lot faster than they used to and seem to be wasting less time searching the same spots.
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Apr 1, 2020 21:29
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They did that a few versions back though I've never really used it. Also sectors will now scale down on the map if there's nothing in the outer reaches so you don't have to worry about buggering the zoom.
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Apr 2, 2020 00:22
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RBA Starblade posted:For right now I need to get 7 more rep to buy their smart chip plans, so I'm patrolling to raise rep and get the cool million I need for it anyway. Structure finally achieved One thing i have only just realised after playing since launch is there are actually 3 ways to get station plans: - Buy them - Randomly get them by scanning the station in 'scan mode' (they will be the red blob scan objects, not the sparks- which are always missions) - Use a spacesuit EMP The spacesuit EMP is by far the best way, and if anyone doesnt know how to do it: - Craft a spacesuit emp or buy one from a black market dealer (100k) - Find station with the station module you want - Find a nice flat surface on the station module - Eject into spacesuit and change your weapon and ammo type to the bomb launcher and emp - Fire the emp onto the surface, right click on the bomb once it attaches and choose 'trigger' - The station will turn to an enemy, and you will get 4 data leaks to scan. Once you scan them you get the blueprint - After something like 2 minutes the station turns friendly again
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Apr 2, 2020 01:07
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_Gumby posted:One thing i have only just realised after playing since launch is there are actually 3 ways to get station plans: Oh wait is that what it means when parts turn red? Do you have to do anything else once they have?
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Apr 2, 2020 01:28
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Hey, so how can I check for missions, on stations? Specifically bounty hunting missions. Since although I'm running and jumping around stations like a pro now, (I'm a big fan of the travelators around the place! ) I can't actually find out where to ask for missions. I'm still on the 'young gun' starter station, but I figure someone must have a job. Like, I even went to the station manager, but it seemed like all he could do for me was point me towards the nearest toilet. Major Isoor fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Apr 2, 2020 |
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Apr 2, 2020 01:35
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RBA Starblade posted:Oh wait is that what it means when parts turn red? Do you have to do anything else once they have? I'm not sure? The 'red blob' i'm talking about is when you fly close to a station and turn on scan mode, sometimes data points appear. There are two types, the pulsing red blob things which give you discounts or commissions or blueprints, and the crazy red/yellow sparks that will give you a mission briefing. I know in scan mode sometimes station parts will take on a reddish hue though, i'm fairly sure that's just the scan mode effect though.
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Apr 2, 2020 01:39
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Major Isoor posted:Hey, so how can I check for missions, on stations? Specifically bounty hunting missions. Since although I'm running and jumping around stations like a pro now, (I'm a big fan of the travelators around the place! I THINK the only way is to fly near stations and open the map? The yellow icons will indicate missions. You can also sometimes get them by talking to people on board, and via data leaks. I'm unaware of any 'Mission Board' type thing, but maybe its buried in the menus somewhere in the mission manager.
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Apr 2, 2020 01:41
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So Egosoft really doesn't want us to get our first autotrader until a few dozen hours into the game? The star gain on captains is absurdly slow still and it's really hard to get the higher level seminars for them. I also don't really understand how to find good trades by myself on the map, even if somewhere has a shortage it's still buying the goods for less than they sell.
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Apr 2, 2020 01:41
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_Gumby posted:I THINK the only way is to fly near stations and open the map? The yellow icons will indicate missions. You can also sometimes get them by talking to people on board, and via data leaks. Hmm, OK then - I'll take a look, when I'm back home. Thanks! Bit different to what I'm used to, but I get where they're coming from - it'll at least make picking up missions faster/easier, if I don't want to have to spend 10min walking around a station every time. Oh also, is there any way I can look around in the cockpit, while flying? Like, look up through the canopy, etc. during combat, at least - I'm not so worried about looking down at the dash or around the room.
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Apr 2, 2020 01:44
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Thom12255 posted:So Egosoft really doesn't want us to get our first autotrader until a few dozen hours into the game? The star gain on captains is absurdly slow still and it's really hard to get the higher level seminars for them. I dont think ive used trading to get money in any of my games in X4, except when ive managed to get an autotrader - but you are right, the 3 stars requirement for them is a huge hassle. I think mining is still the best way to go for early profits. Buy a miner, set it to automine in Second Contact or somewhere else with reasonably high ore/silicon and they'll just do their thing bringing in some cash. Once you have the money set up a station and the station manager will take care of the trades. Getting trade data remotely needs you to have flown past the station recently, or have an advanced satellite nearby (i think?), and i find myself missing the X3 interface for getting the info atm
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Apr 2, 2020 01:51
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Crew specifically get better when you set them to do tasks, so miners will become better pilots as they gather and sell, and combat pilots will get better as they shoot stuff. Service crew get better as they repair damage, so big ships make excellent crew trainers. To train crew you want them to be active and doing stuff, ideally risky or profitable stuff. The map by default has those pips in the top right showing you what wares are on offer for buy/sell at good prices, but I would imagine that with the economy revamp they probably don't have many gaps in actual transportation of goods because everyone does it very aggressively. You really want to get into actually supplying the goods which means mining and selling from your own stations. Autotraders just aren't very good in this because the AI is really good at it too and you're facing massive competition. Supply is where it's at because there's almost always demand for more materials. Work towards a mining and hull parts fabrication operation as soon as possible, IMO. Expand into more goods from there. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Apr 2, 2020 |
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Apr 2, 2020 01:54
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Hey drug lords, have your drug stations been making more money? Like I've been checking my spacefuel stations and they've been making 10x the amount that they used to. (which ain't much but still better than before)
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Apr 2, 2020 02:22
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Just pulled through a save from 1.5 to the latest release. I've got 200m CA$H MONEY, like 35 tatertraders or miners, a destroyer, few fighters, my own decked out nemesis s and an engine part factory. The xenon have been all but defeated. Interested to see how they start respawning to restart the war while I explore the new sectors. Last I played I was cheating in xenon cap ships to try and get production going but apparently they're all gone now. Might cheat in some more to try and kickstart this thing. After such a long break (last played 2018 december) controls are completely unfamiliar lol. I'm doing a combo of controller + m+kb in front of the TV. Had to turn off show orders on the map because otherwise it was running at 4fps with sats placed in all sectors that were around in 1.5. Thanks for reading my blog!!
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Apr 2, 2020 02:30
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I got a lol out of the encyclopedia entry about how after the jump gates crashed the Argon were stuck with roughly an infinite amount of Mercury ships universe traders couldn't use anymore so in a desperate attempt to jumpstart the economy they started gluing poo poo to them and calling them "Venture Capitalist" freighters hoping someone would buy them. TBH I thought autotrading was annoying enough as is in X3 so I have no desire to try in 4 except to supplement a station. I'll probably go the mining route and though it's counterintiutive (while are there directional arrows for placing things if you can't actually use more than one of them?) the station building is hugely improved and I keep hearing station management is braindead easy now
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Apr 2, 2020 03:02
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You can attach any of the attach points to any other one, as long as it's horizontal-horizontal and vertical-vertical. You also don't actually need to attach any of the parts at all, you can put them all in a floating mess if you want to.
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Apr 2, 2020 03:16
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