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Your Personal Muse
Oct 5, 2010

what a cool dude

spacing in vienna posted:

I can't tell if this post feels scummy to me because I disagree with it, or if it feels scummy to me because I'm not sure that you believe all of it. But it's ringing some bells.

How are words alone pressure when there is zero threat behind those words? It annoys me that Amni is pretending like I couldn’t possibly just go after Steak because I thought something was there, no, it has to be because of the immense ~~pressure~~ I felt from his case which boils down to making some jokes

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Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.
this entire game is making words and using those words to make people vote with you

how is that not inherently pressure that'd dumb as hell

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?


Lipstick Apathy

Bifauxnen posted:

Thank you for showing up and demonstrating how it's possible to actually describe a difference of opinion on a case in a rational way. Dragon however, was not capable of this, only going "man Bif's early D1 case is just so crazybad and totally unbelievable and unconvincing and not even a case"

Except the problem here is, even if I were to be swayed by your view of Hum, I can't see why Dragonatrix would react like this to poo poo so hard on the biggest early effort case of the game, while also going to such lengths to appease me and call me town for it, unless it's to protect a scumbro Hum.

Btw I didn't respond to it specifically but this was why I went back and refocused on you vs dragonatrix.

I don't think dragonatrix being scum hinges on hum being scum, though. Coming in and saying that you worked up a huge case but you're definitely town, but so is hum -- a scum dragonatrix could do that just to be on the "see, they were town after all" side of any townie flips, and use that to talk himself back into buying you or hum as scum once the other flips.

Your Personal Muse
Oct 5, 2010

what a cool dude

Gamerofthegame posted:

this entire game is making words and using those words to make people vote with you

how is that not inherently pressure that'd dumb as hell

Because pressure requires legitimate threat behind those words. You can attempt to apply pressure, but you won’t always succeed.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.

Mr. Steak posted:

lol when??? i think you're remembering a different person.


wait, solus is in the game??

##vote solus lurker kill

Eat The Rich posted:

The starter on my car died yesterday and I'm about to spend the rest of the day putting a new one in. I'm gonna drop a vote on the lurker and talk to y'all on day 2.

##vote Solus

what are these tho

that's weird.

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?


Lipstick Apathy

Your Personal Muse posted:

How are words alone pressure when there is zero threat behind those words? It annoys me that Amni is pretending like I couldn’t possibly just go after Steak because I thought something was there, no, it has to be because of the immense ~~pressure~~ I felt from his case which boils down to making some jokes

Ok the pressure thing might just be a difference of opinion, then, because I feel like there's an implicit threat in all the words of this game. Townies and scum make cases, people are swayed, and then lunches happen.

I wasn't talking about pressure in the context of whether or not you were feeling it, as amni implied, but rather whether or not words count as pressure, and I think they do.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Your Personal Muse posted:

How are words alone pressure when there is zero threat behind those words? It annoys me that Amni is pretending like I couldn’t possibly just go after Steak because I thought something was there, no, it has to be because of the immense ~~pressure~~ I felt from his case which boils down to making some jokes

Because it's calling attention to activity.

Your Personal Muse
Oct 5, 2010

what a cool dude

spacing in vienna posted:

Ok the pressure thing might just be a difference of opinion, then, because I feel like there's an implicit threat in all the words of this game. Townies and scum make cases, people are swayed, and then lunches happen.

I wasn't talking about pressure in the context of whether or not you were feeling it, as amni implied, but rather whether or not words count as pressure, and I think they do.

I guess in my mind, there has to be some effect on the recipient for it to be pressure. If I had announced at the beginning of day 0 that I was a n0 cop and I had a scum result on Amni, there’s no pressure even though I said words that could conceivably result in Amni’s lunch. The game literally doesn’t allow for that claim, everyone knows it’s false. There’s no pressure

But that has nothing to do with actual scum hunting. What do you think about Amni’s case on me, semantics aside? I think Amni fabricated the case. Compared to Sandwolf’s suspicion of me, which I believe for now, I just don’t see how someone could look at the posts in context and think that I was setting up outs for myself.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Your Personal Muse posted:

I guess in my mind, there has to be some effect on the recipient for it to be pressure. If I had announced at the beginning of day 0 that I was a n0 cop and I had a scum result on Amni, there’s no pressure even though I said words that could conceivably result in Amni’s lunch. The game literally doesn’t allow for that claim, everyone knows it’s false. There’s no pressure

But that has nothing to do with actual scum hunting. What do you think about Amni’s case on me, semantics aside? I think Amni fabricated the case. Compared to Sandwolf’s suspicion of me, which I believe for now, I just don’t see how someone could look at the posts in context and think that I was setting up outs for myself.

Aside from the fact that uou literally did use it as an out right when I was posting the case "Oh yeah, no it *was* a joke vote but it's totally a real vote now!"

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Those posts aren’t the reason I’m slightly suspicious of you, YPM, and I do agree with you that I think they’re a little bit extrapolating from your posts.

Though I think in total this attempt to figure out what pressure is is largely a waste of time

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.
let's be real there probably isn't enough people active to get to fancy with voting

solus is a nothing vote and I don't think scum would do something so brazenly dumb as that, so maybe steak and etr are ok

unsure.

hum or AA gang

Your Personal Muse
Oct 5, 2010

what a cool dude

Sandwolf posted:

Those posts aren’t the reason I’m slightly suspicious of you, YPM, and I do agree with you that I think they’re a little bit extrapolating from your posts.

Though I think in total this attempt to figure out what pressure is is largely a waste of time

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to suggest that you agreed with Amni’s case, I meant that I believe you when you say that you find my posting style in general is scummy.

When you say they are extrapolating, are you referring to Amni? And do you think it’s a town or a scum extrapolation?

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


spacing in vienna posted:

Btw I didn't respond to it specifically but this was why I went back and refocused on you vs dragonatrix.

I don't think dragonatrix being scum hinges on hum being scum, though. Coming in and saying that you worked up a huge case but you're definitely town, but so is hum -- a scum dragonatrix could do that just to be on the "see, they were town after all" side of any townie flips, and use that to talk himself back into buying you or hum as scum once the other flips.

Oooh that's a fun take on it

Yeah I might be up for lunching Dragon before Hum, even.

Especially now that Gamer's getting on board to back up the Hum vote :v:

##vote Dragonatrix

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?


Lipstick Apathy

Amnistar posted:

Aside from the fact that uou literally did use it as an out right when I was posting the case "Oh yeah, no it *was* a joke vote but it's totally a real vote now!"

Wait are you talking about when ypm said that about steak? The "ok I was just joking before but now that he's said X, I'm actually thinking it's true"?

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

Gamerofthegame posted:

let's be real there probably isn't enough people active to get to fancy with voting

solus is a nothing vote and I don't think scum would do something so brazenly dumb as that, so maybe steak and etr are ok

unsure.

hum or AA gang

this is very bad

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

spacing in vienna posted:

Wait are you talking about when ypm said that about steak? The "ok I was just joking before but now that he's said X, I'm actually thinking it's true"?

Your Personal Muse posted:

The initial vote was a joke, current vote is real


This was written when I was writting my initial case post.

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?


Lipstick Apathy

Your Personal Muse posted:

I guess in my mind, there has to be some effect on the recipient for it to be pressure. If I had announced at the beginning of day 0 that I was a n0 cop and I had a scum result on Amni, there’s no pressure even though I said words that could conceivably result in Amni’s lunch. The game literally doesn’t allow for that claim, everyone knows it’s false. There’s no pressure

But that has nothing to do with actual scum hunting. What do you think about Amni’s case on me, semantics aside? I think Amni fabricated the case. Compared to Sandwolf’s suspicion of me, which I believe for now, I just don’t see how someone could look at the posts in context and think that I was setting up outs for myself.

You're right that we're devolving into semantics, sorry, I'm a tutor and I like to nerd about words.

The thing is, I liked his posts more than yours at first read, and went to read your posts alone to find direct quotes for what I thought he was calling out ... And when I did that, your posts seemed fine and I couldn't find what I was looking for at all. So I'm rereading now and trying to figure out wtf.

So my answer to that is "please hold" and is also going to hinge a bit on what amni says to my question.

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?


Lipstick Apathy

Your Personal Muse posted:

I honestly think this is a scum post. Note that at the time Steak wrote this, two people had voted him for saying he wanted to wait (hum voted him earlier for running grudge reasons I guess). It reads as scum who is over exaggerating the danger they are in.

Amni, did you miss this? Because this is pretty clearly ypm going "... Hang on, I was joke voting steak, but now I want that to be a real vote, because I think that's a scum post from him."

I don't know that I buy that you were confused about this.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Your Personal Muse posted:

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to suggest that you agreed with Amni’s case, I meant that I believe you when you say that you find my posting style in general is scummy.

When you say they are extrapolating, are you referring to Amni? And do you think it’s a town or a scum extrapolation?

I could see it was town just latching onto whatever D1, that’s how I see it now, but the more weight he tries to put behind it the worse I feel about it.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.

Mr. Humalong posted:

this is very bad

we have three hours and nine to hammer

do you think we have nine around cuz I see six or seven and they already have votes even

prove me wrong by all means but that seems kinda dicey

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

spacing in vienna posted:

Amni, did you miss this? Because this is pretty clearly ypm going "... Hang on, I was joke voting steak, but now I want that to be a real vote, because I think that's a scum post from him."

I don't know that I buy that you were confused about this.

That post was the same, to me, as the post about Gamer earlier.

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?


Lipstick Apathy

Bifauxnen posted:

Oooh that's a fun take on it

Yeah I might be up for lunching Dragon before Hum, even.

Especially now that Gamer's getting on board to back up the Hum vote :v:

##vote Dragonatrix

I'm gonna throw this down but might be switching to amni shortly.

##vote dragonatrix

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Sandwolf posted:

I could see it was town just latching onto whatever D1, that’s how I see it now, but the more weight he tries to put behind it the worse I feel about it.

Honestly, The initial case is weak, but YPM's responses have me happier about things.

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

I don't know if I buy the dragon case. I guess he could be scum since he decided to buddy up to me? idk


I'd vote AA or dragon today, maybe ETR

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


spacing in vienna posted:

I'm gonna throw this down but might be switching to amni shortly.

##vote dragonatrix

Yeah I'm also willing to vote Amni if needed to secure the D1 lunch.

I'm here all till deadline

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.
Mostly the "Poke at the weak case until I make amni look bad, but ignore sandwolf's case becaue I can't make them look bad."

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?


Lipstick Apathy

Amnistar posted:

That post was the same, to me, as the post about Gamer earlier.

Okay, now I'm confused. Which post about gamer? I remember ypm full on joke calling gamer scum, but not ever backing that up into "wait no I actually meant it."

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

Not gonna lie I have skimmed over the pages long argument between Amni and YPM because it felt like two people arguing about the meaning of a word which is the most tedious thing ever in mafia

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.

Mr. Humalong posted:

Not gonna lie I have skimmed over the pages long argument between Amni and YPM because it felt like two people arguing about the meaning of a word which is the most tedious thing ever in mafia

:clap:

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?


Lipstick Apathy

Gamerofthegame posted:

we have three hours and nine to hammer

do you think we have nine around cuz I see six or seven and they already have votes even

prove me wrong by all means but that seems kinda dicey

gently caress, I thought we had five hours. I'm doing a family quarantine game night stream starting a bit after seven, not sure if I'll be back on.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

spacing in vienna posted:

Okay, now I'm confused. Which post about gamer? I remember ypm full on joke calling gamer scum, but not ever backing that up into "wait no I actually meant it."

I don't see where the confusion is. My entire initial case is that the post about steak and gamer both have just enough of a joke vibe to them that they can be excused and discarded or referenced as an actual case.

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

Votecount for Day 1

Anomalous Amalgam (2): Dragonatrix, Mr. Humalong
SolusLunes (2): Mr. Steak, Eat The Rich
Mr. Humalong (2): Bifauxnen, Anomalous Amalgam, Anomalous Amalgam, Anomalous Amalgam, Gamerofthegame, Bifauxnen
Dragonatrix (2): Mr. Steak, Mr. Steak, Bifauxnen, spacing in vienna
Amnistar (1): Your Personal Muse
flerp (1): b-minus1
Your Personal Muse (1): Gamerofthegame, Amnistar, Gamerofthegame
Bifauxnen (1): flerp, Toalpaz, flerp
Toalpaz (1): Sandwolf
b-minus1 (1): Amnistar, Amnistar, flerp
Mr. Steak (0): Mr. Humalong, Your Personal Muse, Amnistar, Amnistar, Mr. Humalong, Your Personal Muse
Gamerofthegame (0): Your Personal Muse, Your Personal Muse, Bifauxnen, Bifauxnen

Not Voting (3): Dancer, merk, SolusLunes

With 17 alive, it's 9 votes to execute. The current deadline is April 05th, 2020 at 4 a.m. CEST -- that's in about 3 hours, 26 minutes.

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?


Lipstick Apathy
Mafia edit: it's 6:30 here. I was planning on getting back on when everyone logged off for the night in a few hours, because I can't tell time apparently.

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

Did Steak disappear again?

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

just fuckin dropped a lurker vote and peaced

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Amnistar posted:

Honestly, The initial case is weak, but YPM's responses have me happier about things.

Can you tell me why?

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

god this game has so many lurkers it's disgusting

##vote dragon because no one else seems to want AA today (WHICH PINGS THE gently caress OUTTA ME)

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

b-minus1 posted:

Sorry guys, I can’t contribute anymore today. I think this is my 10th post

bad

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


What do you think is so open and shut about AA again Hum?

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Your Personal Muse
Oct 5, 2010

what a cool dude

Amnistar posted:

That post was the same, to me, as the post about Gamer earlier.

Amni, did you read the gamer post that I was responding to? The only way I could see this is if you didn’t read it in context.

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