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The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

Put it all together.
Solve the world.
One conversation at a time.



Has anyone watched the new Call of the Wild? It's... I don't think I have had an uncanny valley effect with dogs before, but this show definitely achieved that. The weirdness of the dogs and other animals also calls to attention the cg of the environment too. It's incredibly weird (yet entertaining, family film wise) and I recommend watching it at least once!

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Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006
I liked Onward although it's metaphor as magic being the equivalent of a vague notion of ingenuity that spawns out of lack of comfort ends up feeling a bit vestigial. But I thought there was some cool design--The dragon with the school bell roar was cool-- and I was invested in the characters.

It was also nice to see non-human characters coded as black and latinx in a way that was not upsetting.

hallelujah
Jan 26, 2020

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Neon Noodle posted:

A few weeks ago (in the Before Times) I was writing an article about “Jewishness” in cartoons and animation, and how the Jewish-American influence on cartoons and animation gradually faded away in the second half of the 20th century as Disney swallowed everything up.

There’s a cultural through line in Bakshi’s stuff that is also present in the Fleischer studios work, its specific to Jewish immigrants in New York and the ethnic interaction between that community and the other ethnic groups of America (immigrants, African Americans, broader “white” society).
i'd love to read that article when it's done. lol that our generation has so many "before times" - pre-9/11, pre-trump, pre-plague. we would have got some incredible films out of all this trauma if millennials had the time and capital to set up independent studios. there's still time i guess, for those of us who survive to become embittered veterans of the hell age

i'm only just starting to realise how dismal my understanding of animation is :( growing up in rural australia in an anti-television household, i only really had access to disney, pokemon, and the simpsons. there's a whole artistic world out there that i never even knew existed. i'd never heard of bakshi, never heard of fleischer. now i'm trying to play catch-up on everything i missed, using this sudden ill-starred free time on my hands

it's la not nyc iirc, but early simpsons was a trip to revisit. i never realised as a kid that the team working on the classic first seasons were mostly jewish, italian and weird german (groening's dad homer was a mennonite lol) - all immigrants, all "outsiders" to white america. the depiction of ethnic communities and non-white characters reminds me a lot of bakshi's work, both in the tone and in the fact that they're depicted at all. it's far from perfect, there's a lot of stereotyping and bad jokes that swerve too far into racism and hank azaria pretending to be indian, but there's this distinct joyfulness to the whole thing that can only come from writers who delight in multiculturalism rather than resenting or just tolerating it. the caricaturing is insensitive but it comes from a place of genuine fascination, not contempt. of course that all went to poo poo after season six, but it was good while it lasted

now i am going to watch american pop, it is 3am

hallelujah
Jan 26, 2020

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
also, bakshi's irrepressible horniness ruins every single movie that it touches, but it's so consistent and so oddly benevolent that i'm starting to find it endearing

it just makes me think of this

hallelujah
Jan 26, 2020

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


hallelujah fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Apr 4, 2020

IUG
Jul 14, 2007


I feel like I need a flashlight in order to watch whatever film that is.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Pick posted:

Family entertainment = Grave of the Fireflies

:psyboom: what

i wouldn't say Grave is a strictly inappropriate movie for young viewers, but what fuckin' family sits down for movie night and goes "HMM I THINK WE SHOULD PUT ON THIS DEPRESSING MOVIE ABOUT CHILDREN STARVING TO DEATH AFTER HIROSHIMA"

hallelujah
Jan 26, 2020

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

IUG posted:

I feel like I need a flashlight in order to watch whatever film that is.
it's american pop and it's incredible

doomrider7
Nov 29, 2018

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

:psyboom: what

i wouldn't say Grave is a strictly inappropriate movie for young viewers, but what fuckin' family sits down for movie night and goes "HMM I THINK WE SHOULD PUT ON THIS DEPRESSING MOVIE ABOUT CHILDREN STARVING TO DEATH AFTER HIROSHIMA"

That's Barefoot Gen. Grave of the Fireflies is about the Tokyo Firebombings.

hallelujah
Jan 26, 2020

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
anyone who gives a poo poo about anything should watch it right now

i desperately want it on dvd but cannot have it due to the coronavirus lmao

hallelujah
Jan 26, 2020

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

doomrider7 posted:

That's Barefoot Gen. Grave of the Fireflies is about the Tokyo Firebombings.
fireflies is the one with the starving children though. barefoot gen is about children wading steadfastly through waist-deep incinerated rotting corpses

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant
It's a Pick post, dude.

Plus she hosed up by not mentioning Return to OZ

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

FilthyImp posted:

It's a Pick post, dude.

Shut the gently caress up.

It's a family entertainment film. It showed as a double feature with My Neighbor Totoro. Having challenging content does not dismiss something as being family entertainment, in fact that's what separates it from children's entertainment. It doesn't have excessively violent, sexual, etc. content that would make it deliberately designed to exclude young people, hence "family entertainment", literally the distinction I was outlining.

In the book Where the Red Fern Grows, a kid dies from tripping on axe and ripping his guts out. And yet that has been required reading for sixth graders for 50 years. A lot of you are completely divorced from children and what they consume and what is designed for their consumption. Pointing that out is not a troll post.

hallelujah
Jan 26, 2020

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
if someone with incredible sensitivity went through american pop frame-by-frame and gently corrected just the creepiest of the facial animations to make key characters less uncanny, it would become a perfect work

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010


If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling
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Ultra Carp

Pick posted:

Shut the gently caress up.

It's a family entertainment film. It showed as a double feature with My Neighbor Totoro. Having challenging content does not dismiss something as being family entertainment, in fact that's what separates it from children's entertainment. It doesn't have excessively violent, sexual, etc. content that would make it deliberately designed to exclude young people, hence "family entertainment", literally the distinction I was outlining.

In the book Where the Red Fern Grows, a kid dies from tripping on axe and ripping his guts out. And yet that has been required reading for sixth graders for 50 years. A lot of you are completely divorced from children and what they consume and what is designed for their consumption. Pointing that out is not a troll post.

I feel that your kinda weird and arbitrary definitions of "Children" and "Family" entertainment is what's causing the issue here. When I think "Family Entertainment," I think films and media that are written and intended to be watched by family units in group settings, from young kids to elderly adults. Cheaper by the Dozen is family entertainment. The Goonies is family entertainment. Star Wars, ET, most Marvel movies, these are films intended to cater to nearly every demographic. Grave of the Fireflies I would not classify as family entertainment, because it's not the kind of film you can just put on for Little Timmy and Grandma Susan and expect them to enjoy it—some kids are going to be emotionally mature enough for it, but to put it on the same level as Toy Story is... a pretty bad distinction. It doesn't help either that there's a significant gap in the demographics of your examples—you jump from television intended for toddlers to feature films intended for general audiences, with no gap in between. 5-10 year olds need entertainment too!

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

Pick posted:

Shut the gently caress up.

It's a family entertainment film. It showed as a double feature with My Neighbor Totoro.


Wiki posted:

The initial Japanese theatrical release was accompanied by Hayao Miyazaki's lighthearted My Neighbor Totoro as a double feature. While the two films were marketed toward children and their parents, the starkly tragic nature of Grave of the Fireflies turned away many audiences. However, Totoro merchandise, particularly the stuffed animals of Totoro and Catbus, sold extremely well after the film and made overall profits for the company to the extent that it stabilized subsequent productions of Studio Ghibli.
Though Pick's right in the sense that kids get a lot of heavy stuff thrown their way. Bridge to Terabithia, Old Yeller...

Something that probably muddles things a bit is the concept of childhood as a distinct phase of life is only 300 years old, research into childhood psychology is fairly new, and we're constantly re-evaluating things... like when 'tweens' became a thing.

So Red Fern might have been something we all read in 4th grade but it might have gotten bumped up to 7th by now.

Pick's still gonna Pick, tho.

I just finished watching Onward and I really liked it. Good characters, liked what they were inspired by DnD poo poo... the moral was kinda telegraphed but it had some exciting scenes and good jokes.

FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Apr 5, 2020

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010


If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling
1-800-GAMBLER


Ultra Carp
I think what it comes down to is that it's impossible to put up a grand umbrella over all "Children's entertainment," because children are constantly growing and learning, and what they may enjoy one year may be completely inappropriate the next (And vice versa). It also depends on the individual child—I watched Jurassic Park for the first time at age 4 and loved it, while my sister (Two and a half years younger) had nightmares about dinosaurs for years.

What I think I really object to, though, is this:

quote:

Having challenging content does not dismiss something as being family entertainment, in fact that's what separates it from children's entertainment.

This, I feel, is absolutely the wrong attitude to have. Now, of course, this is going to depend on the type of children's entertainment—early childhood entertainment geared towards toddlers and very young children probably shouldn't have too much in the way of 'challenging' content because their brains literally have not developed to the point where they can adequately tackle said content. But as kids get older, they can handle more and more—and it's important that content be specifically geared for them, as opposed to lumping it all under a generic "Family" label, because films intended for families are going to have very different messages and impacts than films that are made specifically with kids in mind. Of course, these demographics can overlap—Grandma isn't going to complain when someone puts on The Iron Giant or The Land Before Time (Which I would argue are more children-oriented) as opposed to, say, The Incredibles or Monsters Inc (Which are more 'family' oriented). But the distinctions do matter, and can matter a lot for the kids consuming that media.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

Acebuckeye13 posted:

early childhood entertainment geared towards toddlers and very young children probably shouldn't have too much in the way of 'challenging' content because their brains literally have not developed to the point where they can adequately tackle said content.
Funny anecdote but my first kid used to LOVE watching me run around in FFXV, especially if I was fishing or around the beaches. I think he was 7 or 8 months at the time.

And then one day I got too close to a bunch of wild crabmonsters or something and a fight ensued. Kid let out an angry scream,because of course it was too much violence for him to process.

Hopefully he doesn't hate seafood now.

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...
Is advent children something to watch? Does it answer any ff7 questions or just kinda add shot that’s unnecessary

Regalingualius
Jan 7, 2012

We gazed into the eyes of madness... And all we found was horny.




Alan Smithee posted:

Is advent children something to watch? Does it answer any ff7 questions or just kinda add shot that’s unnecessary

The devs have said that the older FF7 EU stuff isn’t canon to the remake, if that’s why you’re asking. :v:

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Regalingualius posted:

The devs have said that the older FF7 EU stuff isn’t canon to the remake, if that’s why you’re asking. :v:

That seems remarkably unlikely considering the remake references the FF7 EU stuff multiple times.

Alan Smithee posted:

Is advent children something to watch? Does it answer any ff7 questions or just kinda add shot that’s unnecessary

It's pretty unnecessary.

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007

WASP CREW
Advent Children is dumb, and every piece of FFVII media that came out after the original made the plot worse with unnecessary retcons and bad writing. Also it didn't have enough Red XIII, who is the best.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant
AC is basically "Cloud, get over Aeristh" with a side of "we're gonna clarify that Genova Cells Sephiroth thing a little but not really" and a sweet tech demo

Cockmaster
Feb 24, 2002

Acebuckeye13 posted:

I think what it comes down to is that it's impossible to put up a grand umbrella over all "Children's entertainment," because children are constantly growing and learning, and what they may enjoy one year may be completely inappropriate the next (And vice versa).

And let's not forget changing standards regarding what is and isn't appropriate for children. Just look at cartoons before the 1980's - for much of that time, TV networks were under pressure from moral guardians who pretty much demanded that anything made for children be suitable for 2 year olds. Or, from then until very recently, anything vaguely LGBT-related.

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do




it's always fun to come into this thread and learn something about what growing up was like for the various posters in here. I sometimes feel my sense of appropriateness for what to watch in my developing years was skewed because we watched movies like Total Recall and Starship Troopers as a family, I think I was 7 or 8 at the time. I also remember for most of my childhood thinking that while Aladdin was cool and everybody watched it, admitting you watched movies like Cinderella or Beauty and the Beast would get you labelled as "gay"



I also learned about this story called Where the Red Fern Grows that I have never heard of before, though I remember Gary Paulsen's Hatchet series being a big hit when I was in school (I think by that time Brian's Winter had just been published)

Calaveron
Aug 7, 2006
:negative:
So is Gackt still the single most important person in the ff7 universe

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

Aces High posted:

it's always fun to come into this thread and learn something about what growing up was like for the various posters in here. I sometimes feel my sense of appropriateness for what to watch in my developing years was skewed because we watched movies like Total Recall and Starship Troopers as a family, I think I was 7 or 8 at the time.
Dad took me to watch Land before Time and I loving loved that movie.

But I think the first film we watched in theatres was Troll. Oop.

I have find memories of the floating braineyes and skullguy from Robocop 2 as well.

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010


If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling
1-800-GAMBLER


Ultra Carp

Aces High posted:

it's always fun to come into this thread and learn something about what growing up was like for the various posters in here. I sometimes feel my sense of appropriateness for what to watch in my developing years was skewed because we watched movies like Total Recall and Starship Troopers as a family, I think I was 7 or 8 at the time. I also remember for most of my childhood thinking that while Aladdin was cool and everybody watched it, admitting you watched movies like Cinderella or Beauty and the Beast would get you labelled as "gay"



I also learned about this story called Where the Red Fern Grows that I have never heard of before, though I remember Gary Paulsen's Hatchet series being a big hit when I was in school (I think by that time Brian's Winter had just been published)

Where the Red Fern Grows is an interesting story, it's about a boy who gets two coon hounds and goes around the countryside hunting raccoons (It's much more interesting then it sounds). It's also pretty impactful because of how it ends—the boy is attacked by a mountain lion, and both dogs ultimately die saving him. I wasn't assigned it for school, but was given an old copy of the book by my grandmother, and it's still stuck with me over the years. Hell of a lot more than Johnny Tremaine at any rate :v:

e: Also I had a slightly younger sister, as I mentioned, so I ended up watching all the Disney Princess movies growing up. Even the off-brand ones too, like Anastasia and the Swan Princess series.

Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Apr 5, 2020

Mamkute
Sep 2, 2018

FilthyImp posted:

AC is basically "Cloud, get over Aeristh" with a side of "we're gonna clarify that Genova Cells Sephiroth thing a little but not really" and a sweet tech demo

There was also the 'adopted kid has weird illness' subplot and the reveal that Rufus survived the Shinra building's destruction.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

Mamkute posted:

There was also the 'adopted kid has weird illness' subplot
I'll always curse the translators for going with Geostigma instead of the obviously better choice "Geostigmata"

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
Until recently it was basically mandatory that children's stories had to have tragic endings, usually out of nowhere, where the quirky best friend/faithful pet always dies. Death By Newbury Medal they call it. Usually just ends up getting the kids confused at why grown ups love stories with sad endings for no reason.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 9 years!
Buglord

Alan Smithee posted:

Is advent children something to watch? Does it answer any ff7 questions or just kinda add shot that’s unnecessary

It’s the point where the thing where everyone collectively confused cloud with a brooding antihero got cannonized. He’s a doofus goofball in the game but everyone just arbitrarily decided he was cool and dark and advent children made him that.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

honestly, Nomura is a loving hack who basically been coasting the last ten+ years because he got several hits under his belt and seem to be making poo poo up as he goes along. He may have been talented once, but he's basically all ego now.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 9 years!
Buglord

Robindaybird posted:

honestly, Nomura is a loving hack who basically been coasting the last ten+ years because he got several hits under his belt and seem to be making poo poo up as he goes along. He may have been talented once, but he's basically all ego now.

Nah, he’s great. You were just thirteen when the stuff you liked came out, he’s totally the same still

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

Nah, he’s great. You were just thirteen when the stuff you liked came out, he’s totally the same still

Nah, he had people actually telling him to stop and edit his work back then. His early stuff still holds up (The World Ends With You is imho still his best game), just the EU and later works aren't so good, and then there's the nightmare productions of FFXV and KH3 that showed they need someone to smack them with a belt and keep him in line.

Medenmath
Jan 18, 2003

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

i wouldn't say Grave is a strictly inappropriate movie for young viewers, but what fuckin' family sits down for movie night and goes "HMM I THINK WE SHOULD PUT ON THIS DEPRESSING MOVIE ABOUT CHILDREN STARVING TO DEATH AFTER HIROSHIMA"

doomrider7 posted:

That's Barefoot Gen. Grave of the Fireflies is about the Tokyo Firebombings.

Forgive me for being a pedantic weeb, but Grave of the Fireflies takes place in Kobe.

I'm no film critic but I expect that the fact that it's not one of the more famous cities is part of the point.

hallelujah
Jan 26, 2020

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
one of my favourite things about bakshi is how much he hates the italian mafia. he loves italians, but gently caress he hates the mafia. hates them! filth! trash

SolarFire2
Oct 16, 2001

"You're awefully cute, but unfortunately for you, you're made of meat." - Meat And Sarcasm Guy!

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Where the Red Fern Grows is an interesting story, it's about a boy who gets two coon hounds and goes around the countryside hunting raccoons (It's much more interesting then it sounds). It's also pretty impactful because of how it ends—the boy is attacked by a mountain lion, and both dogs ultimately die saving him. I wasn't assigned it for school, but was given an old copy of the book by my grandmother, and it's still stuck with me over the years. Hell of a lot more than Johnny Tremaine at any rate :v:

I have never cried like I cried when I finished that book in third grade. I finished it on a Saturday morning and I was completely inconsolable all weekend.

doomrider7
Nov 29, 2018

Medenmath posted:

Forgive me for being a pedantic weeb, but Grave of the Fireflies takes place in Kobe.

I'm no film critic but I expect that the fact that it's not one of the more famous cities is part of the point.

The event is known as the "Dolittle Runs" which included both Tokyo and Kobe, but more people usually know it as the "Tokyo Firebombings" since that's the more famous city of the two like you said.

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Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010


If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling
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Ultra Carp

doomrider7 posted:

The event is known as the "Dolittle Runs" which included both Tokyo and Kobe, but more people usually know it as the "Tokyo Firebombings" since that's the more famous city of the two like you said.

What? No, the Doolittle Raid preceded the mass firebombings of Japan by three years, and didn't cause any kind of significant damage.

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