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you got a tiny taste of it in blops 3
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Apr 5, 2020 05:59
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Dapper_Swindler posted:one of the game informer interviews said they would go back to it at some point. but i thought the ending was decent enough that your could not have a sequel. main character and most of crew die but most of the space nazis fighting capabilities are super hosed along with like most of their fleet and their super star destroyer, most of the high command is dead too. Would have worked for the sequel trilogy as well if they'd bothered to recognize last Jedi
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Apr 5, 2020 06:00
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Arcsquad12 posted:Would have worked for the sequel trilogy as well if they'd bothered to recognize last Jedi true that.
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Apr 5, 2020 06:01
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Augus posted:guess this is a good time to repost that video about how the "good guys" in modern warfare actually suck rear end and fail at everything
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Apr 5, 2020 07:01
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New Unfinished London: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daeB46Z4fjs It's a hilarious series about town planning fuckups in London.
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Apr 5, 2020 08:19
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Captain Invictus posted:that absolute blowjob of captain price in game informer sounds like something dan ryckert would've written yeah that shits loving hilarious.
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Apr 5, 2020 17:29
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Captain Invictus posted:that absolute blowjob of captain price in game informer sounds like something dan ryckert would've written I remember reading one Game Informer article back in the day that said Andrew Ryan from Bioshock was right 
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Apr 5, 2020 17:51
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*sees someone jump down a cliff and die* it is my opinion that jumping down this cliff is safe and good to do!
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Apr 5, 2020 17:57
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Jamie Faith posted:I remember reading one Game Informer article back in the day that said Andrew Ryan from Bioshock was right i like game informer as dumb as they can be. i like the exclusives i guess. also stupid update, i looked up how the MW timeline. the america levels happen in august and than europe happens in october.
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Apr 5, 2020 18:35
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i like game informer as dumb as they can be. i like the exclusives i guess. Oh yeah, I do too. It depends on the writer(s). Sometimes it has good stuff, sometimes its crap. Jamie Faith fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Apr 5, 2020 |
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Apr 5, 2020 18:39
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Jamie Faith posted:Oh yeah, I do too. It depends on the writer(s). Sometimes it has good stuff, sometimes its crap. yeah, like i love good think pieces/political stuff/etc pieces but i still love dumb ad preview game articles still. if you read enough you can pick up interesting things.
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Apr 5, 2020 22:35
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at the end of the day it's absolutely hilarious that IW managed to bamboozle the MIC into 100% full-throatedly supporting a game series that, under their watch, was essentially screaming "WAR IS REALLY loving AWFUL, DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY, YOU WILL DIE HORRIBLY BECAUSE NATIONALIST FUCKHEADS WANT TO WAG THEIR DICKS AT EACH OTHER" at the absolute top of its lungs and all they had to do was make it look really cool and have the fig-leaf of Cpt. Price (who is, essentially, their mascot) being an unstoppable action-hero badass (who still achieves almost nothing)
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Apr 5, 2020 23:06
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:at the end of the day it's absolutely hilarious that IW managed to bamboozle the MIC into 100% full-throatedly supporting a game series that, under their watch, was essentially screaming "WAR IS REALLY loving AWFUL, DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY, YOU WILL DIE HORRIBLY BECAUSE NATIONALIST FUCKHEADS WANT TO WAG THEIR DICKS AT EACH OTHER" at the absolute top of its lungs All my friends in high school did end up getting totally inspired to join the military because of CoD though, so I dunno. None of them actually did join the military because of CoD though, so take that information as you will. It's the whole “there's no such thing as an anti-war film” argument. Casey Finnigan fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Apr 5, 2020 |
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Apr 5, 2020 23:08
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I'unno, I think MW wants to have its cake and eat it too. It portrays war as a terrible thing but it still has more than enough of that good ol' ARE TROOPS jingoistic tone with soldiers being (AFAIK, I'm writing from memory) honest guys just following orders. Does it even try to make the other side in the conflict sympathetic at any time? At the end of the day it feels more like "if we just let the honest men in green fight evil without big wigs interfering we'd get rid of the BAD GUYS" more than anything.
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Apr 5, 2020 23:13
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lions led by donkeys is not a particularly new concept
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Apr 5, 2020 23:16
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Alaois posted:lions led by donkeys is not a particularly new concept It isn't, and it's constantly used in American movies as a way to portray their police institutions as good institutions that occasionally do bad things because of bad leaders. The soldier is always lionized.
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Apr 5, 2020 23:25
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Dias posted:Does it even try to make the other side in the conflict sympathetic at any time? Yeah, there are good Russians who are on your side in 1 and 3. And then there's the airport massacre scene in 2 to show how innocent Russians are the biggest victims of extremists like Makarov. Also in 3, you play most of the game as Yuri, a former ultranationalist who had an "Am I the baddie?" moment right before the airport massacre and tried to stop it. There's also the one level where you play as a Russian bodyguard to the Russian president, who is on his way to negotiate peace with America before Makarov's goons storm the plane and hijack it and kidnap the president. Basically saying that the majority of Russians just want peace, while just a few warmongering right-wing extremist nutjobs like Makarov are dragging the rest of the country kicking and screaming into a war they don't even want to fight. (sound familiar?  )Hell, even the Russians soldiers you fight and kill in combat are portrayed somewhat neutrally. Like yeah, they're enemies but unlike the bad guys in the Black Ops series, they never capture you and torture you or force you to play Russian roulette or make you shoot your friends or something while cackling like evil monsters. Ultimately, they're soldiers, just like you, fighting for their country, just like you. Jamie Faith fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Apr 5, 2020 |
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Apr 5, 2020 23:48
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Dias posted:I'unno, I think MW wants to have its cake and eat it too. It portrays war as a terrible thing but it still has more than enough of that good ol' ARE TROOPS jingoistic tone with soldiers being (AFAIK, I'm writing from memory) honest guys just following orders. Does it even try to make the other side in the conflict sympathetic at any time? At the end of the day it feels more like "if we just let the honest men in green fight evil without big wigs interfering we'd get rid of the BAD GUYS" more than anything. "War is bad, but soldiers are big drat heroes!" is definitely a sentiment I picked up on in all of IW's CoD games. Something that's often glossed over is that immediately before the nuke scene you hurriedly rescue a downed pilot in classic big drat hero fashion...only for that act of bravery to be promptly wiped out, ultimately pointless in the grand scheme of things. I think that says a lot about both the aforementioned sentiment and MW's nihilistic bent in general.
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Apr 6, 2020 00:04
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:at the end of the day it's absolutely hilarious that IW managed to bamboozle the MIC into 100% full-throatedly supporting a game series that, under their watch, was essentially screaming "WAR IS REALLY loving AWFUL, DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY, YOU WILL DIE HORRIBLY BECAUSE NATIONALIST FUCKHEADS WANT TO WAG THEIR DICKS AT EACH OTHER" at the absolute top of its lungs the US military-industrial complex was not bamboozled by call of duty and to believe such a thing is remotely possible despite all available evidence is naive and arrogant
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Apr 6, 2020 00:24
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Watch: Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 DESTROYS Lockheed Martin
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Apr 6, 2020 00:28
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:naive and arrogant yeah sounds like a lord of booty post
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Apr 6, 2020 00:31
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Even with the criticism of war you can take from the modern warfare games, you still have poo poo like Activision courting controversy by getting Oliver loving North to promote Black Ops. Regardless of whether you think the series glorifies the MIC or condemns is, there is no arguing whose side the publisher is backing.
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Apr 6, 2020 00:39
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Nah Lord of Booty was dead on. If you honestly think THIS ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6BXbTzUHoM ) is saying "Hey kids! Join the military! Its cool and fun!  " I honestly don't know what to tell you lmao
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Apr 6, 2020 00:40
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Lampshading is not critique.
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Apr 6, 2020 00:41
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Lampshading is not critique. Showing every character who fights in a war save for a few dying horribly and for no reason is a little bit more then lampshading imo.
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Apr 6, 2020 00:44
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It's not that there isn't anti-war stuff in MW, it's just that society and culture have put a slant on it. It's hard to make a truly anti-war thing through and through. We enjoy action and violence can often be thrilling or exciting. Even as it characterizes a lot of the actors as bad or evil, the soldier is always good. It creates this sort of attitude where people can say "war bad, but we should still intervene in the Middle-East and we won't gently caress up this time" which is goddamn hilarious.
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Apr 6, 2020 00:48
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the bulk of modern warfare's audience is people who will (maybe) play through the campaign once and remember all the sick setpieces like the bombing mission and the snowmobile gunfights and call captain price badass of the decade then spend hundreds of hours shooting mans in multiplayer you can absolutely have anti-war readings of the campaign but this is not the general cultural perception of modern warfare, and most of the players won't read that deeply into it
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Apr 6, 2020 00:54
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dmboogie posted:the bulk of modern warfare's audience is people who will (maybe) play through the campaign once and remember all the sick setpieces like the bombing mission and the snowmobile gunfights and call captain price badass of the decade then spend hundreds of hours shooting mans in multiplayer I know. Lots of people think Fight Club supports toxic masculinity when it's actually dunking on it. Doesn't stop chuds from misunderstanding it. But chuds saying FC supports their insane idealogy doesn't make it true. Likewise, warmongers thinking CoD is prowar doesn't make it true imo. "The general cultural perception" is often horribly incorrect.
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Apr 6, 2020 01:00
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Its worth pointing out that the few scenes of introspection in every COD are sprinkled between hours of enthusiastic warmaking. Pretty much every peice of media about war will have some measure of time dedicated to it being a bit poo poo, but it tends to be drowned out in the rest of the excitement. The AC-130 mission is a pefect example of that; it may be a chillingly accurate depiction of the asymetrical nature of modern warfare, but tons of people playing the game are going to enjoy it completley unexamined.
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Apr 6, 2020 01:01
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it's enthusiastic warmaking and "lions led by donkeys" that always, always ends with the lions and enthusiastic warmakers achieving absolutely nothing positive and the world just becoming a worse and worse place the only difference between a normal person and a "badass" in the MW universe is that the "badass" isn't dead at the end; it's not just about it having time dedicated to anti-war stuff, it's about how that time is used by the narrative, and it's always used to deflate the pro-war stuff that came before by having it achieve literally nothing and just get a whole bunch of people senselessly killed it may not have worked, and realistically speaking the MIC likely made a calculated decision to support the series regardless of this on the expectation that it wouldn't work, but it still makes me laugh from the simple fact that it exists in a series they supported and actively relied on for advertisement e: it really is the Fight Club problem in a nutshell, yeah.
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Apr 6, 2020 01:06
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:it's enthusiastic warmaking and "lions led by donkeys" that always, always ends with the lions and enthusiastic warmakers achieving absolutely nothing positive and the world just becoming a worse and worse place agreed but like alot of the time in the cod games or at least the IW ones. the protags die,, badly.
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Apr 6, 2020 01:17
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the thing about modern warfare is that it continues after aftermath. you stop the missiles and kill makarov or w/e his name is. the message will always at best be “war is hell, but it works”. sure the sequels will progressively downplay the success of the previous game, but that wasn’t planned from the start. if cod 4 ended with aftermath it would have been a controversial critique of america’s invasion of iraq but that’s not what call of duty is or tries to be. the good guys have to win and that requires there to be good guys.
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Apr 6, 2020 01:28
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I think a big part of COD's failure to be anti-war is inherent to it's gameplay; the shooting part will always be the most satisfying and interesting part of the experience. You might die in a cutscene, but the gameplay leading up to that point was probably as bombastic as any other shoot out in the game. You will never successfully communicate an anti-war message when an approximation of warfare is what people are coming for.
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Apr 6, 2020 01:43
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Again, if you want to do anti-war, you can do anti-war. It's doable. You just are not likely to be able to do that when your protagonists are military. And it isn't clear to me that the developers of all the Modern Special Ops Warfare: Battlefield Nuke games actually want to do actual anti-war.
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Apr 6, 2020 01:45
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Dapper_Swindler posted:agreed but like alot of the time in the cod games or at least the IW ones. the protags die,, badly. IW protags have like an 80% death rate lmao MW1 Soap: ALIVE* (*=but dies in MW3) Jackson: DEAD AC 130 Operator: ALIVE Yasir Al-Fulani: DEAD Price: ALIVE MW2 Joseph Allen: DEAD Roach: DEAD James Ramirez: ALIVE Sat1 Astronaut: DEAD SOAP: ALIVE* (*=but dies in MW3) MW3 Soap: DEAD Yuri: DEAD Frost: ALIVE Andrei Harkov: DEAD Marcus Burns: UNKNOWN but probably dead (he was in the ground zero of the gas attack) Davis and family: DEAD AC 130 Operator: ALIVE PRICE: ALIVE Oh and just for fun, lets look at Ghosts and Infinite Warfare Ghosts Logan Walker: Captured to be tortured and brainwashed Elias Walker: DEAD Baker: DEAD Badger-Two: ALIVE Thompson: ALIVE IW Dan "Wolf" Lyall: DEAD E3N "Ethan": DEAD Nick Reyes: DEAD "Join the military kids! And you too can be horribly killed!" watho posted:the thing about modern warfare is that it continues after aftermath. you stop the missiles and kill makarov or w/e his name is. the message will always at best be “war is hell, but it works”. sure the sequels will progressively downplay the success of the previous game, but that wasn’t planned from the start. if cod 4 ended with aftermath it would have been a controversial critique of america’s invasion of iraq but that’s not what call of duty is or tries to be. the good guys have to win and that requires there to be good guys. But in MW2 and 3, the whole point is to stop the war. No one wants to fight it except warmongers like Shephard and Makarov. The trilogy ends with you killing Makarov, and Russia and America signing a peace treaty. You never "win" a war in MW, you end it by bringing the warmongers who started it to justice. (which is what we should have done to Bush and Cheney back in the early 2000s) Granted, you do that thru violence, because hey it is an fps afterall. But anti war doesn't equal all violence=bad/evil. Just that the war itself was pointless, stupid, and fought on false pretenses, just like IRL. Jamie Faith fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Apr 6, 2020 |
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Apr 6, 2020 01:46
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The issue is none of this narrative matters when the gameplay spends the majority of its time depicting war in a power-fantasy.
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Apr 6, 2020 01:52
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People go into things primed to draw whatever narrative they already favor from the media they consume. Our upbringing and what we're exposed to is responsible for a lot of that. And to nobody's surprise, America loving loves wars. Sure, war bad except when war good, and war good when America says war good, and sure as sure this war good. Regrettably we have to smash them into the stone age for their own good. As for progress, we can now risk our soldiers less while keeping bodycounts at a minimum because unlike bullets, a missile will hit the ground eventually, rather than penetrate into a neighboring house! And our intelligence tells us there were only hostile targets in the building. Regrettably there were also civilians in the neighboring buildings but at least no American lives were lost, but this war? This war still good, we just made some mistakes. And I think outside of the extremely online and/or Leftists, you'll find objections against the Iraq War to be predicated on it becoming a drawn-out boondoggle, not because war bad. Or that our conduct was bad, but we shouldn't write intervention off. We can still do good, even though it's been proven that everything short of the public desire to alleviate suffering just leads to bad because all our mechanisms to alleviate suffering are very good at killing people. We just need to kill the right people. Except whoops, turns out they weren't the right people. But game say war bad. Argas fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Apr 6, 2020 |
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Apr 6, 2020 01:56
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JustaDamnFool posted:The issue is none of this narrative matters when the gameplay spends the majority of its time depicting war in a power-fantasy. You and all your friends slowly dying from radiation sickness on a hell-like battlefield is not what I would call "a power fantasy" You can't just ignore the ending of the story like it doesn't matter. The ending to these character's lives completely recontextualizes the whole meaning to their stories. I'm thinking of an old Bible verse that says "sin is fun for a season, but the end result is DEATH" WELP is the bible saying "sin is fun!" ? No, it says it's fun for a while, then you loving die. Replace sin with war, and there you go.
Jamie Faith fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Apr 6, 2020 |
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Apr 6, 2020 01:57
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we’re approaching the argument of ludonarrative dissonance real fast
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Apr 6, 2020 01:59
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-<[W A R N I N G]>- A HUGE BATTLESHIP 《LUDONARRATIVE DISSONANCE》 IS APPROACHING FAST
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Apr 6, 2020 02:02
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