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Punkin Spunkin
Jan 1, 2010

quote:

Realizing that someone has already changed the timeline they try to figure out what might have been different if Columbus had headed east instead of west. The answer is provided by Hunahpu, an Amerindian researcher with Pastwatch. He argues that in the original timeline, the Europeans exhausted themselves in the anti-Muslim crusade propagated by Columbus, and meanwhile across the ocean the Tlaxcalan Empire of Central America grew powerful enough to invade the weakened Europe, subjecting the continent to a harsh regime of human sacrifice. Eventually, the Tlaxcalans underwent an Industrial Revolution and developed advanced weapons which enabled them to conquer the entire world - still without changing their bloodthirsty religion. In order to undo that atrocity, the Pastwatch's counterparts from the original timeline sent the hologram back to direct Columbus, the greatest man of his era, to head west. The European conquest of the Americas thereby neutralized the threat - but at the price of untold suffering for the Native Americans, trampled under the European conquest.

.......

Tagiri's team use their machinery to send Diko, Hunahpu, and a Turkish researcher named Kemal, back in time in order to change history. Hunahpu and Diko appear years before Columbus' voyage in Central America and the Caribbean respectively. They use genetically-engineered viruses to spread immunity to Old World diseases and work to strengthen Indian society for the coming European contact, including by spreading a pseudo-Christian religion among them and outlawing human sacrifice. Hunahpu helps accelerate the development of a Central American empire to rival European powers. When Columbus arrives, Kemal sinks his ships, stranding the explorer and his men in the Caribbean. After overcoming prejudice, Columbus learns to live with the indigenous people and becomes a powerful political leader among the natives of the Caribbean and eventually oversees a political union with the Central American empire.

......

Diko becomes Columbus' lover and the two establish a strong, lasting loving relationship. 

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Mywhatacleanturtle
Jul 23, 2006

Christopher Columbus, the Greatest Man of his Era

LMFAO

Also “how do I magically convert hundreds of unique native cultures to my judeo Christian worldview without the guilt of killing most of them”

Mywhatacleanturtle fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Apr 5, 2020

Punkin Spunkin
Jan 1, 2010
OH MY GOD

quote:

After years of their knowing and trusting each other, Diko reveals to Columbus the truth about her origins and what she had done. When hearing about how his voyage of discovery would have led to the widespread killing and enslavement of the Indians, Columbus bursts out crying and thanks Diko for saving him from perpetrating such deeds.
LMAO

Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009

quote:

meanwhile across the ocean the Tlaxcalan Empire of Central America grew powerful enough to invade the weakened Europe, subjecting the continent to a harsh regime of human sacrifice. Eventually, the Tlaxcalans underwent an Industrial Revolution and developed advanced weapons which enabled them to conquer the entire world - still without changing their bloodthirsty religion.

literally a crusader kings 2 dlc

Mywhatacleanturtle
Jul 23, 2006

Punkin Spunkin posted:

OH MY GOD

LMAO

Beyond loving parody.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004
It's just a history nerd version of

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008

I went to college in Greensboro, where Card lives. One of my friends managed to interview him for some class project. He is apparently as nuts when talking in person as in his writing.

Tars Tarkas posted:

After 9-11 is when he wrote the red vs blue civil war book(s?) that were incredibly dumb and there are really old threads trashing it (them? can't remember if it was a series or a one-of)

Hahah, I completely forgot about that. I tried reading the first book when it came out and it was too bad to finish. As I recall it has a very clear George Soros stand-in funding a socialist revolution via the NYPD. Though I think Card did stumble upon a prescient point, in the novel when faced with a genuine left-wing movement, the Democrats side with the Republicans rather than with the left.

Wasn't this a spinoff or tie in or something with Shadow Complex?

I also remember it came out around the same time as John Updike's novel Terrorist which made for quite a pairing.

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

I fully 100% believe that Card is a deeply repressed homosexual man who’s brain has been completely and utterly broken by being a lifelong member of an extremely homophobic cult.

nonathlon
Jul 9, 2004
And yet, somehow, now it's my fault ...

Punkin Spunkin posted:

OH MY GOD

After years of their knowing and trusting each other, Diko reveals to Columbus the truth about her origins and what she had done. When hearing about how his voyage of discovery would have led to the widespread killing and enslavement of the Indians, Columbus bursts out crying and thanks Diko for saving him from perpetrating such deeds.

LMAO

That was the part that really, really got to me: if only we could explain things to old timey, less progressive people really carefully, they'd be as enlightened as us. Like a massive "well actually" across timestreams.

MechanicalTomPetty
Oct 30, 2011

Runnin' down a dream
That never would come to me

nonathlon posted:

That was the part that really, really got to me: if only we could explain things to old timey, less progressive people really carefully, they'd be as enlightened as us. Like a massive "well actually" across timestreams.

If I had the power to travel through time, the first thing I would do is hit up Jesus and tell him "yo, your followers really gently caress things up down the line."

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011

A silly little mouse!

Chairman Capone posted:


Wasn't this a spinoff or tie in or something with Shadow Complex?

I also remember it came out around the same time as John Updike's novel Terrorist which made for quite a pairing.

The reverse actually. Shadow Complex was a tie-in for the book. It's weird on two levels, both that someone made a video-game tie-in for a book, and that It was way more successful than the thing it's meant to promote.
Also LOL at the NYPD or in fact any American PD taking any side but the most Fascist they can find in a civil war.

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008

galagazombie posted:

Also LOL at the NYPD or in fact any American PD taking any side but the most Fascist they can find in a civil war.

This is a big tangent but if you aren't aware of it, the 1919 Boston police strike is worth looking up as a huge WTF moment from our modern perspective. The Boston Police Department went on strike to organize their own union. As a result, the national press full-on denounced the cops as Bolsheviks getting their orders straight from Moscow, and Governor Calvin Coolidge called in the Massachusetts National Guard to break up the strike specifically because he claimed it was a communist plot. It was explicitly because of this that Coolidge was chosen to be the Republican VP in the 1920 election, and then became president when Harding died a couple years later.

So it's really crazy to think that a century ago, a Republican became president explicitly by smearing police officers as communists for wanting to set up a police union. Especially crazy considering the role of police unions in American politics now.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P


I can still, almost two decades later, recite this commercial from memory.

Casimir Radon
Aug 2, 2008


The ZooBooks commercial was still in use a few years ago, maybe still is.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.
I never knew a single kid who ever actually subscribed to ZooBooks but they’d show up in garage sales all the time around here.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


According to director Luca Guadagnino he's working on a sequel to Call Me by Your Name and that everybody will be back. I really liked the original but I'm just not sure what a sequel could bring to the table without feeling like a cash in. Having Elio and Oliver meet up years later and get back together just kind of robs the original ending of its power.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR

🔊😴
If there's one thing we can say about Orson Scott Card with certainty, it's that he hates buggers.

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Luca Guadagnino should direct Ender's Game

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

FreudianSlippers posted:

Luca Guadagnino should direct Ender's Game

John Waters souls direct Speaker for the Dead

Julius CSAR
Oct 3, 2007

by sebmojo

muscles like this! posted:

According to director Luca Guadagnino he's working on a sequel to Call Me by Your Name and that everybody will be back. I really liked the original but I'm just not sure what a sequel could bring to the table without feeling like a cash in. Having Elio and Oliver meet up years later and get back together just kind of robs the original ending of its power.

Elio grows up and savegly beats Oliver for grooming him as a child would be a good plot

Vandar
Sep 14, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?



Baron von Eevl posted:

If there's one thing we can say about Orson Scott Card with certainty, it's that he hates buggers.

Excuse you. They're called Formics. :colbert:

Patrick Spens
Jul 21, 2006

"Every quarterback says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"
Pillbug

Casimir Radon posted:

Also Card is a homophobic whackjob who got his brain further screwed around by 9/11.

You can tell that 9/11 happened in the middle of the Bean books because the Muslim characters go from being good dudes who are getting along with Israel to religious fanatics trying to bring back the Caliphate between books.

got any sevens
Feb 9, 2013

by Cyrano4747

Julius CSAR posted:

Elio grows up and savegly beats Oliver for grooming him as a child would be a good plot

More sequels need to bend genres

Julius CSAR
Oct 3, 2007

by sebmojo
“Coming of age films” are super loving creepy in general.

wizardofloneliness
Dec 30, 2008

muscles like this! posted:

According to director Luca Guadagnino he's working on a sequel to Call Me by Your Name and that everybody will be back. I really liked the original but I'm just not sure what a sequel could bring to the table without feeling like a cash in. Having Elio and Oliver meet up years later and get back together just kind of robs the original ending of its power.

He's been saying that for a while, but last I checked it was just everyone saying they'd be down to do another one. Which I think is a pretty stupid idea. It really seems like the kind of movie that would be diminished by a sequel. The author of the book wrote a sequel to it last year though, but I think it was mainly about Elio's dad or something.

Pirate Jet
May 2, 2010

Julius CSAR posted:

“Coming of age films” are super loving creepy in general.

I’ll be pretty satisfied if I never see another big actor or comedian make a directorial debut with a coming-of-age flick from a “boutique” studio.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
'Coming of age' seems especially ridiculous nowadays where anyone under 55 is still treated as an ignorant whiny child.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
In this coming of age movie our protagonist

Loses both of their parents
Goes on an arduous journey both physical and spiritual
Finds the love of their life and starts a relationship with them
Figures out their true calling and starts working at it
Achieves complete emotional maturity and a new understanding of life
Turns 19

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:

In this coming of age movie our protagonist

Loses both of their parents
Goes on an arduous journey both physical and spiritual
Finds the love of their life and starts a relationship with them
Figures out their true calling and starts working at it
Achieves complete emotional maturity and a new understanding of life
Turns 19

replace the last one with "turns 12" and that's just the story arc of a fairy tale

Barudak
May 7, 2007

The term Bildungsroman just celebrated its 200th birthday, its a very old and enduring genre of literature.

Feldegast42
Oct 29, 2011

COMMENCE THE RITE OF SHITPOSTING

MechanicalTomPetty posted:

I was also including the Shadow novels in that statement, which are set in the same universe with the same characters shown from different viewpoints. IIRC, the last novel reveals that the aliens from Enders Game were evil after all because they turned all the males of their race into zombie drones or something along those lines.


OSC just makes me sad because I legit like Enders Game and Speaker for the Dead, but so much of what he's said and done over the years just makes my skin crawl. He's like the novelist equivalent of Frank Miller at this point.

Speaker of the Dead is a legit great book and its pretty tolerant considering what rabbit hole Card went down through

Also lol, in going down the Zoobooks rabbit hole I found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEWnN04lwZo

Feldegast42 fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Apr 6, 2020

Unoriginal Name
Aug 1, 2006

by sebmojo

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

I fully 100% believe that Card is a deeply repressed homosexual man who’s brain has been completely and utterly broken by being a lifelong member of an extremely homophobic cult.

There are a remarkable number of marriages of convenience between men and woman who don't really do the whole "sex" thing in Card's books.

I literally just re-read that Columbus book for the first time since I was teenager. It is....bad but it does a least look at pre-Columbian American which most fiction forgets about

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

I fully 100% believe that Card is a deeply repressed homosexual man who’s brain has been completely and utterly broken by being a lifelong member of an extremely homophobic cult.

Ender's Game is without a doubt the single most homoerotic thing I have read in my life. The fact that it's about 10 year olds makes it outright disturbing. OSC is at best a deeply closeted gay man and at worst a pedophile whose backwards "gays are child predators" beliefs are 100% projection.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




Lotta naked boys wrestling in showers and descriptions of how slippery their bodies are tbqh

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008

On top of his terrible political and social views, Card also has terrible movie views. To link him back to an earlier thread topic, OSC said that Serenity (the Joss Whedon movie) was the best sci-fi film ever made.

Mywhatacleanturtle
Jul 23, 2006

AceOfFlames posted:

Ender's Game is without a doubt the single most homoerotic thing I have read in my life. The fact that it's about 10 year olds makes it outright disturbing. OSC is at best a deeply closeted gay man and at worst a pedophile whose backwards "gays are child predators" beliefs are 100% projection.

I seem to recall him being asked if there was any subtext behind the young soaped up naked boys wrestling in the shower and he got really mad.

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012

Mywhatacleanturtle posted:

I seem to recall him being asked if there was any subtext behind the young soaped up naked boys wrestling in the shower and he got really mad.

"What do you mean subtext?"

Mamkute
Sep 2, 2018

Mywhatacleanturtle posted:

I seem to recall him being asked if there was any subtext behind the young soaped up naked boys wrestling in the shower and he got really mad.

Remember when the the title character stomps on the Spanish boy's balls until he dies?

Heavy_D
Feb 16, 2002

"rararararara" contains the meaning of everything, kept in simple rectangular structures

Mywhatacleanturtle posted:

I seem to recall him being asked if there was any subtext behind the young soaped up naked boys wrestling in the shower and he got really mad.

“I know writers who use subtext, and they’re all cowards.”

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One More Fat Nerd
Apr 13, 2007

Mama’s Lil’ Louie

Nap Ghost
There's a theory in scifi circles that Card didnt even write Enders Game, or that it was secretly a collaborative effort. Also, as a related theory, there's some evidence the book is coded Hitler apologia.

I dont really buy it, but Card is a crazy mess so who knows.

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