|
CitizenKeen posted:Is this true? I feel like access to Domains and Skills is much higher in Heart. My bad, should have done the math correctly. Although it should be pointed out, Azurite isn’t particularly generous in terms of Domains and Skills - look at Masked for a contrast. Still, it remains that generally starting characters will have less access - Spire characters will have at least 2 of each from Durance + Class.
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 09:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 11:19 |
|
|
Hey Night, before this adventure review wraps up, I gotta ask...are you familiar with the writers intended ending to it, that got spiked by GW?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 10:38
|
|
|
NutritiousSnack posted:Hey Night, before this adventure review wraps up, I gotta ask...are you familiar with the writers intended ending to it, that got spiked by GW? He's commented in earlier posts that yes, he is familiar (assuming you refer to the Empire openly acknowledging Skaven).
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 11:19
|
|
|
Josef bugman posted:corn wood 
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 13:13
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:This was demonstrated to me on Friday, when in my Myth side game (I like the Myth series and ended up doing a bunch of my own stuff with it using WHFRP) my players killed an extremely powerful ancient undead mage with a party of midway through second tier yokel mercs, in open combat. They were just trying to hold him off while their engineer planted charges to collapse a building on him, but he kept missing 90 and 70% defense rolls, they kept making saves against magic, and they rolled 5 furies over the course of the fight. His 70% WS, SB 7, TB 7, 35 Wounds, 5 Attacks, and 5 Mag did not save him from a pissed off peasant with a greatsword, a whaler, and getting dinged with a rock in the head. Do you have more about this camoaogn written up anywhere else? I'm a huge fan of the Myth games, and would love to see what you did with it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 13:27
|
|
|
NutritiousSnack posted:Hey Night, before this adventure review wraps up, I gotta ask...are you familiar with the writers intended ending to it, that got spiked by GW? Yeah, it's a major reason I'm forgiving the ending. I knew something felt off about it, because it always feels like a kinda last minute swerve, and it's seriously at odds with the quality of the rest of the adventure. Trust me, we'll talk about the ending plenty.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 14:16
|
|
|
Malapropism of "cord wood."
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 14:54
|
|
|
grassy gnoll posted:Malapropism of "cord wood."
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 15:02
|
|
|
LazyAngel posted:My bad, should have done the math correctly. Although it should be pointed out, Azurite isn’t particularly generous in terms of Domains and Skills - look at Masked for a contrast. Still, it remains that generally starting characters will have less access - Spire characters will have at least 2 of each from Durance + Class. Fair. The Durances do help, giving about 1.5 Skills/Domains. Plus, Spire characters get more from their class (4, versus Heart's 2). That's a good point. Although, Heart characters get 1 Major and 3 Minor abilities at start, compared to Spire's 2 Low abilities. This may not be the thread for this pedantry. Keep up the good work - I'm enjoying your F&F.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 15:12
|
|
|
CitizenKeen posted:Fair. The Durances do help, giving about 1.5 Skills/Domains. Plus, Spire characters get more from their class (4, versus Heart's 2). That's a good point. Pedentry is welcome - just think of it as my really needing an editor :-P
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 15:23
|
|
|
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e: Terror in Talabheim We are gonna find Steeleye, and shoot him in the head. Things come to a head after the PCs rescue a former slave who had escaped from Skavenblight itself. That, plus reports from Resistance operatives that tell them the Skaven stopped work on everything and tried out what appear to be ranging-shots from some huge cannon in the old Merchant's quarter. Questioning rats tells them the rats have big-big plans for the next time Morrslieb waxes on the thirteenth of the month. A lucky day for rat people. Steeleye has built his Man-Thing-Army-Breaker (he is not good at naming stuff) and is preparing to fire explosive, over-sized poison wind globes that should cause hideous damage to the Imperial army besieging Talabheim. He has them right where he wants them. Unfortunately he hasn't cleaned up his insurgent problem. Nor did he bother to kill Nelrich the Supperator. If the PCs have learned enough about the guy, they may try to seek the terrible poison rat's assistance against the lightning rat. This actually works. If the PCs go to Nelrich, one way or another they'll get some benefit out of it. Nelrich is insanely, incredibly pissed off at Steeleye for jacking his plague AND trying to use him as sacrificial bait. To the point that he won't even betray the PCs, or try to take over the city himself, or anything. He knows Steeleye's been having trouble with these people and that they're his best shot to completely ruin (or kill) his rival. Nelrich also wants to live, and the PCs starting a major uprising is the perfect time for him and his awful little plague rats to book it back to Skavendom. Depending on how their meeting goes and how creeped out/angry they get when he wants to know all about how they enjoyed his plague when they were infected, either he'll agree to actually help (sending his troops to kill their way through Steeleye's rats in the Taalbastion and fleeing back into the shadows), or if the PCs piss him off, he infects them with something. The thing is, the something they're infected with doesn't do poo poo to humans. Only Skaven. And it's an even more hyper-charged version of the Grey Ague, which spreads like wildfire through the rat ranks and makes it so most of the rats the PCs are fighting are down 15% from all stats when the actual battle starts in a few days. Nelrich doesn't really care about killing man-things at this point, only every rat-bastard who tried to screw him. You've got to admire his dedication to pure spite. The next day or so, the PCs should start their rising. Everything they've done to convince people to help comes home, and suddenly slaves are strangling ratmen with their chains, soldiers are emerging from hiding in the sewers to attack surprised Skaven patrols (lol, not so fun when it's humans doing it, is it, rat nazis!?), Knights emerge from the forest or the Temple of Myrmidia to charge the Skaven, and the surprised rats are caught off guard and trying to marshal their forces away from the Grey Seer's planned victory parades/celebrations and into fighting off a concerted rebellion. The rats will win eventually, but this isn't about destroying the rats conventionally. This is about seizing the Taalbastion to let the Imperial Army in while the PCs destroy the Man-Thing-Army-Breaker! Which is mostly a stealth section to get the PCs past the few remaining guards (turning to a fight with some Skryre if they fail) and into the merchant's quarter. Once they find the cannon, they have a problem. The thing is made entirely of Warpstone. Getting close to hit it with a wrench is a bad idea (It's TB 6, Wounds 30, so not hard to break, just every round causes a Tough+10 or mutate) so rolling some lit gunpowder at it or finding something in the Skaven factory that explodes is a better plan. The ammunition facility is also nearby, where somehow human corpses are being refined into extra-powerful raw poison gas. Destroying this is a BAD IDEA as it will flood the entire district with gas, killing hundreds of slaves, imperiling the PCs, etc. As soon as the Man-Thing-Army-Breaker is attacked, Steeleye knows. He knows, and he is beyond pissed. To the point that he outruns his bodyguard, using Skitterleap to teleport himself onto buildings above the PCs so he can rant at them and throw lightning from there. Also, if you haven't killed Sparker by now, he'll join in to defend his kickass giant gun. The issue for Steeleye is he's a wizard. TB 4, no armor (can cast Armor for +3 Armor, at least), with no support. His Stormvermin might arrive eventually (and start the fight with him if the PCs instead assault him in his home to try to assassinate him instead of going for the cannon) but if he's on his own he's going to get hosed up. You see, he's only Mag 3. He can't easily cast the most bullshit spells of his Lore (which are kind of badly designed anyway, see Children of the Horned Rat review for full details on the horseshit that is Flensing Ruin) so he's mostly stuck with Warp Lightning Storm. Damage 5 AoE sounds bad, but PCs in Chain with TB 4 can handle some Damage 5 hits. And every 1 he rolls hits him. And the default party has good shooters, so his being on the roof won't protect him. Plus, to stay ahead of them if they climb up after him, he Skitterleaps more, which uses his spellcasting/action. He's a kinda cool boss, but he's very vulnerable and will die like any other unsupported wizard. If he takes a crit or really feels he's losing, he runs away squeaking about revenge, instead. Assuming he's able. He's extremely dangerous if you fight him with his six Stormvermin guards, though that's more likely in the assassination mission where you might get a surprise round and just shoot him to death before he can react. Either way, there's a bit of a mercy-rule in all this if the players are really struggling. If they're fighting and losing against a Skaven group, say Steeleye's bodyguards? During this section, once and only once, a strange pack of wolves will burst out of nowhere, their mouths full of tongues of silver fire. They kill the hell out of some of the Skaven fighting the PCs to take the pressure off. Taal will only step in for them once, but he really appreciates the PCs defending his city. The most important thing is that if the cannon is destroyed, Steeleye has already lost and doesn't know it. And if he's forced to flee or dies, the word soon spreads among the Skaven. His defeat gets more graphic with each telling, as the Skaven panic about the surprise uprising and the incoming Imperial army and the destroyed cannon. The Musk of Fear fills Talabheim as the rats begin to chain-rout, and soon, even the Resistance is enough to drive them squeaking from the city. The heroes have saved Talabheim thanks to the amazing cowardice and arrogance of rat nazis! Unless the PCs fail. If they do, there's a side-bar saying talk to the players, see what they want. If they're done with ratfight for now, the cannon explodes. That's just how Skaven do. Steeleye is apparently killed, but will come back as a warpstone-powered monstrosity to swear revenge on them. If they like ratfight, Steeleye succeeds, and now they have to continue resistance battles against the rats until they can retake not just Talabheim, but Talabecland entire. Then the worst part of the book happens: The ending. So from what I've heard, the original ending was 'This is the moment the Empire realizes the Skaven exist, but also that the Skaven can take a number because God knows they have enough problems'. The joke being that the Empire officially acknowledging them doesn't really change anything. That was deemed too much of a change to the setting and got axed, so there's a very hurried 'people start to make up stories about how it was just rat Beastmen and nothing changes' ending. Talabheim gets rebuilt, but the PCs are suddenly liable for immense property damage. More importantly, by that old law of Talabheim, they own the entire mansion district and downtown. See, they stayed and fought, while the nobles ran. This means they're prone to being assassinated to resolve this, so some of their allies quickly hand them a couple chests of gold and rush them out of the city (Hey, it's more than Brute Squad got). They can never go back to Talabheim or they'll be locked in insane legal battles forever. I hate that part, too. I went with that for my group, but just had them 'sell' the city back for enormous-to-them-but-not-to-the-buyers sums and call it settled, with that being the point the PCs mostly retired from adventuring or moved on to new phases of their lives. The whole 'nothing can ever actually happen' really dooms most of the pre-mades. I think part of why TiT stands out is things were actually supposed to happen! The ending is a huge swerve in quality and pretty obviously a last-minute replacement job. Otherwise, TiT is a genuinely pretty cool adventure where the PCs get to shank rat nazis and terrify and infuriate fun Skaven villains. It's a great example of how to do Skaven villains: They're 'standard', but each has a little twist to them that makes them more fun and makes them stand out. The beginning is slow, but the big setpieces of the fall and rise of Talabheim both land, both have significant roles for the PCs to actually matter in, and the Resistance section is a fun and more open-ended idea for an adventure. With the payoff coming in the final battle as you get to see all the people you recruited shooting, stabbing, and strangling nazis. That's a good payoff. Overall I'd say TiT, like Lure of the Liche Lord, is one of the stronger WHFRP pre-mades. I still much prefer to write my own adventures, but my not-so-great experience running it was partly because I didn't really give it the chance it deserved. I was fresh off cancelling Paths of the Damned halfway through and pretty mad at pre-made games, so I didn't read it through thoroughly enough or take it on its own terms when I was running it. I think if you really engage with it, and maybe spice up the beginning a bit, you'll have a good time fighting terrible ratmen in the heart of the forest. Plus the actual city book section is about on par with Middenheim's, which is a welcome change from Nuln's meh writeup and Altdorf's actively poor one. Join me next time as being locked in my apartment due to plague leads to me writing about the actually terrible WHFRP adventure books like I promised I wouldn't! The End
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 15:33
|
|
|
grassy gnoll posted:Malapropism of "cord wood." That's how it is pronounced!?! Dammit all!
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 15:38
|
|
|
Also note, if you never do anything with Nelrich it doesn't matter that much. The author is pretty aware PCs going to ask a loving Plague Priest for help is a big ask, so if you don't, the Resistance and the sacred wolves seize the Taalbastion just long enough on their own. It's mostly there if players were really enjoying the 'dubious allies' aspects of the Resistance. There's a lot of 'tailor to what the players are liking' in the back half of TiT and I really appreciate it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 16:29
|
|
|
Remind me how Skaven and the PCs are supposed to communicate. Everyone conveniently speaks Hollywood German, Nelrich is just particularly learned for an insane priest, or some other option?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 17:15
|
|
|
They're foreign, which is an accent. Just speak louder at them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 17:18
|
|
|
grassy gnoll posted:Remind me how Skaven and the PCs are supposed to communicate. Everyone conveniently speaks Hollywood German, Nelrich is just particularly learned for an insane priest, or some other option? The captured guy you rescue can translate with the basic rats you capture since he speaks Queekish, and most of the officers speak Reikspiel, because the rats like to learn the language so they can make speeches at protagonists. They wouldn't turn down the chance to tell you dramatically how you're all doomed. E: So effectively, yes, they all speak Hollywood German. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Apr 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 17:22
|
|
|
Yikes, that ending. Keeping with the 'ROUSes don't exist' schtick is annoying enough, but essentially being run out of town feels like a kick in the pants. I mean, you could play it for black humour, but it feels like one of those 'oh, and the PCs get screwed out of their reward again' moments writ large.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 17:47
|
|
|
For my group, the two mages were able to buy their doctorates by getting privileges from the city in return for giving it back for their Orders. The dwarf negotiated an expansion of the embassy and then went back to looking into how to re-build golems and automata. And the elf started a legitimate import and export business and eventually bought a princedom in Lothern. We thought it better as a way to handle 'we can't keep the city but you'd better give us something for it'.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 18:05
|
|
|
You could even make a big show of renaming a street (or a few) to memorialize the victory before you hand it back.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 18:25
|
|
|
I wrote an RPG. I wrote a Giant Robot focused RPG, specifically, to capture the feeling and aesthetic of 80's real robot anime an more modern video games like Gundam, Layzner, Dunbine, Dragonar, Zone of the Enders, and Armored Core. I wrote this RPG because I was unsatisfied with Lancer, which is only a big thing because of its art, but also because as a veteran of certain systems I can tell you that Silhouette and Mekton are 100% bullshit. I'm currently formatting a .pdf of the core (Player) version of the rules, with a quick add-on for the Referee's Guide covering things like running combat, handling enemies and NPCs, and rewarding experience to players. Then I'm going to hand that to PurpleXVI to tear the gently caress apart here, because he's one of the few people I trust to not just go "Just use Lancer."
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 18:27
|
|
|
The Myrmidians do quietly build you a statue in the default ending.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 18:27
|
|
|
Fivemarks posted:I wrote an RPG. I wrote a Giant Robot focused RPG, specifically, to capture the feeling and aesthetic of 80's real robot anime an more modern video games like Gundam, Layzner, Dunbine, Dragonar, Zone of the Enders, and Armored Core. I wrote this RPG because I was unsatisfied with Lancer, which is only a big thing because of its art, but also because as a veteran of certain systems I can tell you that Silhouette and Mekton are 100% bullshit. There are strong mechanical reasons to like Lancer, not just the art. If you're unsatisfied with it, that's totally cool. But negging on Lancer isn't a good way to announce you've got a game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 20:06
|
|
|
CitizenKeen posted:There are strong mechanical reasons to like Lancer, not just the art. If you're unsatisfied with it, that's totally cool. But negging on Lancer isn't a good way to announce you've got a game. Very much in agreement on this, unsurprisingly considering my avatar. Why don't you like it if you don't mind me asking?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 20:10
|
|
|
Loxbourne posted:He's commented in earlier posts that yes, he is familiar (assuming you refer to the Empire openly acknowledging Skaven). Ah, crap! Thought I was going to share a nice nuggey
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 20:12
|
|
|
NutritiousSnack posted:Ah, crap! Thought I was going to share a nice nuggey You did! Months ago, during the Border Princes review. I just remembered it and seeing rumors of that stuff elsewhere, and thought it made sense since the ending is a huge swerve.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 20:13
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:You did! Months ago, during the Border Princes review. I just remembered it and seeing rumors of that stuff elsewhere, and thought it made sense since the ending is a huge swerve. I need to remember my own posts better! I'm glad I could share an interesting tidbit/reminder that GW loves the stupid parts of their fluff, and am not just an annoying chatterbox stating the obviously! It's the actual weird thing about Warhammer. Most of the adventures end up bad Fantasy Call of Cthulhu, with or without a bad joke set up and ending punchline, but there are some that are or could have been VERY good: Enemy Within, this, or say Lure of the Liche Lord come close to greatness, but end up hobbled by GW's interference or incompetence NutritiousSnack fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Apr 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 20:39
|
|
|
Again, there's no reason for Skaven to keep kept hidden/unacknowledged given how many threats the Empire has - having the Skaven revealed and then underestimated as 'they're just a bunch of rats' imho works better story-wise.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 21:37
|
|
|
Robindaybird posted:Again, there's no reason for Skaven to keep kept hidden/unacknowledged given how many threats the Empire has - having the Skaven revealed and then underestimated as 'they're just a bunch of rats' imho works better story-wise. Games Workshop is a very weird place. Even weirder if this is back around the time Storm of Chaos was happening.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 21:58
|
|
|
This is a few years after. The whole idea of the Grey Seer's plan is he's hoping to nail as many of the Empire's forces as he can as they're diverted from demobilizing after the Storm to besiege and take back Talabheim. He's banking on a major military defeat on top of the strain of defeating Archaon being the kick that breaks the Empire open. This was also written a few years after the actual Storm of Chaos campaign. Most of WHFRP2e was written in the Storm's wake, both setting wise and real-time wise. Though a lot of the adventures pretty much ignore it. The thing to remember is GW was way, way more insane under their last CEO. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Apr 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 22:02
|
|
|
I really liked the Storm of Chaos, if only because it didn't play out how GW wanted.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 22:20
|
|
|
Josef bugman posted:I really liked the Storm of Chaos, if only because it didn't play out how GW wanted. I participated in it as a Vampire Counts player and it gave me the greatest satisfaction to tell the Chaos players to stuff it, we had no intention of loving helping them, especially since GW kept trying to force us too. EDIT: On the note of the adventure proper, my GM had modified/ported over Enemy Within and substituted it for the third or fourth part of that campaign, and god damned it ruled. Our party was a Physician Halfling with a dead eye, A totally (not) male Knight of the Realm, a Dwarf Engineer who every other Dwarf Engineer gives poo poo to because he Nuln , a former drunk and liar turned into a semi professional drunk and liar, and know a ladies woman to boat aka a Rapscallion on her way to Charlatan, and me a Journeyman Gold Wizard. It turns out having a master Engineer who could not only make explosives but knew where to place them, having a con woman who knows how to flatter anyone, play to egos, and shift the blame for anything, and someone who can make brand new equipment utterly worthless makes a frustrating insurgency force. We got more Rat Nazis killed through infighting and executions that during the final act the Stormverimin basically let us stroll up and blow up the doomsday weapon just because they thought it infinitely more likely a rival was going to do it. NutritiousSnack fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Apr 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 22:51
|
|
|
CitizenKeen posted:There are strong mechanical reasons to like Lancer, not just the art. If you're unsatisfied with it, that's totally cool. But negging on Lancer isn't a good way to announce you've got a game. You misunderstand. I like Lancer, I'm just unsatisfied with aspects of it, such as the amount of influence your pilot has on things, especially combat- It's art isn't the only reason why people like it, but its undeniable that a lot of what got people to look at it from the start was it being attached to the artist of Kill Six Billion Demons. It is definitely far better than Mekton or Silcore or Adeptus Evangelion or Battle Century G. Additionally, I'm simply tired of people telling me "Just use Lancer, don't work on your own thing" over and over again. Its... annoying, and has turned me off of Lancer. Fivemarks fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Apr 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 23:04
|
|
|
I'm just going to bite the bullet and do some Fragged reviews. I love the game to loving much
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 23:19
|
|
|
God help me I'm doing Thousand Thrones next. This is going to be 250 pages of pain and hellwombs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 23:20
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:God help me I'm doing Thousand Thrones next. This is going to be 250 pages of pain and hellwombs. I am so sorry. May Sigmar have mercy on your soul. That book is a railroady mess even by WHFRP standards of railroady messes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 23:42
|
|
|
I genuinely think that whatever his abilities as a designer, Robert Schwalb is a completely and utterly miserably bad adventure writer. I hear the same complaints about Shadow of the Demon Lord premades as I see in stuff like Forges of Nuln and now this mess.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2020 23:46
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:God help me I'm doing Thousand Thrones next. This is going to be 250 pages of pain and hellwombs. Is GW about to get really misogynistic again?
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2020 00:19
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:Is GW about to get really misogynistic again? I'll let you know once I struggle through enough of this thing. Even reading it is mind-numbingly boring.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2020 00:29
|
|
|
Hm, I don't think anyone actually did Lancer yet, did they? Chalk me up for doing that one when I've got a project or two less on my plate.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2020 00:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 11:19 |
|
|
Night10194 posted:I genuinely think that whatever his abilities as a designer, Robert Schwalb is a completely and utterly miserably bad adventure writer. I hear the same complaints about Shadow of the Demon Lord premades as I see in stuff like Forges of Nuln and now this mess. the award for absolute worst sotdl adventure goes to "the stars refuge" by none other than monte cook, for having an extraordinarily lovely ending, or possibly "the last train to darksville" by matt forbeck which takes the idea of fighting a dragon on top of a train and makes it as boring as possible.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2020 00:43
|
|
