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PurpleXVI posted:Hm, I don't think anyone actually did Lancer yet, did they?
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Apr 8, 2020 00:46
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Nessus posted:I'd be curious myself. I have an interest in a mech RPG of some kind and I kind of tack against the grain of e-fandom in that I neither want a situation where you're just doing PBTA except your basic move is Yell Rocket Punch, nor some kind of hyper-detailed mechanical simulation a la GURPS Mecha. Most of what I hear about Lancer is "The setting's politics are good, and there are giant robots." The mechanics are very strongly based on Shadow of the Demon Lord and to some extent 4e.
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Apr 8, 2020 00:50
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Nessus posted:I'd be curious myself. I have an interest in a mech RPG of some kind and I kind of tack against the grain of e-fandom in that I neither want a situation where you're just doing PBTA except your basic move is Yell Rocket Punch, nor some kind of hyper-detailed mechanical simulation a la GURPS Mecha. Most of what I hear about Lancer is "The setting's politics are good, and there are giant robots." I think the problem with finding that middle ground in a mecha RPG game is that most of the source media is one of the two. Like either it's super robot stuff where NARRATIVE SPIRIT guides you to win or it's in the Mechwarrior vein where you specify whether each given bolt on your robot is reinforced(okay, I know, hyperbole). Honestly I'd say you could probably get pretty good mileage out of taking 4E D&D as the basic skeleton(or at least for inspiration), and letting a chunk of each character's skills be swappable to represent them piloting a different robots or replacing parts back in the mechbay, maybe letting them "salvage" skills from enemy bots at times. Then you'd have your tactical, grid-based crunch without getting all GURPS or Phoenix Command about it.
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Apr 8, 2020 00:53
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PurpleXVI posted:I think the problem with finding that middle ground in a mecha RPG game is that most of the source media is one of the two. Like either it's super robot stuff where NARRATIVE SPIRIT guides you to win or it's in the Mechwarrior vein where you specify whether each given bolt on your robot is reinforced(okay, I know, hyperbole). Is... is that not Lancer? I would have sworn that was broadly Lancer.
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Apr 8, 2020 00:56
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PurpleXVI posted:I think the problem with finding that middle ground in a mecha RPG game is that most of the source media is one of the two. Like either it's super robot stuff where NARRATIVE SPIRIT guides you to win or it's in the Mechwarrior vein where you specify whether each given bolt on your robot is reinforced(okay, I know, hyperbole). This is actually an aspect of campaign design that I think is relatively neglected, that being "the development of the dynamics of battles in the setting." Like we all go back and draw from the well of WW2 a lot, but a lot of other wars started as a clusterfuck and then ended as a very different kind of clusterfuck due to the emergence of new technologies and methods.
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Apr 8, 2020 01:08
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Joe Slowboat posted:Is... is that not Lancer? I would have sworn that was broadly Lancer. I haven't read Lancer, so I wouldn't know what is or is not Lancer. Nessus posted:My experience is that this isn't really the case, and while there is a "Super Robot" and "Real Robot" continuum to some extent in terms of where you are in "the robot is a soldier of justice from hell" vs. "the robot is a mass produced piece of technology," there are a bunch of other variables. One of my favorite through-lines in the Gundam series is the development and deployment of psionic technologies, which does indeed get kind of ridiculous towards the later parts of the timeline, but follows a relatively clear stepping-stone logic and ties into the themes of the core works. Even in a lot of the shows that are ostensibly "real robot," scrape away the paint a bit and you still get protagonists that succeed because of their BURNING SPIRIT rather than because of any application of tactics or technical know-how. In fact I have a real hard time thinking of any robot shows that don't do that.
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Apr 8, 2020 01:18
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Joe Slowboat posted:Is... is that not Lancer? I would have sworn that was broadly Lancer. That is Lancer. I'll tackle a F&F. I was going to do Heart, but LazyAngel's on it so I've got the bandwidth.
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Apr 8, 2020 01:29
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 Greetings everyone, and welcome to my next Let’s Read! I know that I said I’d review SIGMATA, but I found myself feeling a lot more passionate about another book. As such undertakings take quite a bit of time and effort on my part, I felt it best to do the ones that fill me with the most excitement and energy. Back in the 90s and early Aughties, Bioware was the most prominent studio that brought the Dungeons & Dragons rules to the realm of video games. Even their much-acclaimed Knights of the Old Republic used rules derived from the Star Wars D20 System. Although Bioware moved on to its own Intellectual Properties over time, the company brought countless gamers to the Forgotten Realms seeking to learn more about the vaunted cities of Neverwinter and Baldur’s Gate. In a way, it wasn’t too unsurprising when the lead designers of said games (as well as Dragon Age: Origins) wrote up a 5th Edition-compatible adventure for their account of Baldur’s Gate. But that was not their only delve into tabletop; last year they advertised a very successful KickStarter for an original setting. Odyssey of the Dragonlords is part setting, part level 1 to 20* adventure path that takes heavy inspiration from Greek mythology. The continent of Thylea is dominated by two divine pantheons, the Five Gods and the Titans, who settled into an uneasy Oath of Peace for 500 years. But the Oath’s magically-binding duration is coming to an end, and the PCs are spoken of in a prophecy to be Thylea’s only hope. As the wicked Titans muster their forces to bring ruin and devastation, every day is one step towards uncertain doom. *the book advertises 1 to 15 but it got extended as a stretch goal. Introduction  Our book opens up with a discussion of distinguishing tropes to make Odyssey stand out from the typical D&D faire. For one, the plot has high stakes: even at level 1 the PCs are assumed to be well-known and accomplished heroes with a few mighty deeds already under their belts. At low levels the rulers of city-states are calling upon an audience with them, and at higher levels they can even challenge the gods themselves who have convenient stat blocks for such a purpose. Oaths are powerful and cosmically-binding, and accruing fame from deeds nets you followers and power represented by a Fame score. Fate and prophecies are a gift and a curse which even the gods cannot defy, and the lives of mythic heroes have elements of comedy and tragedy. The fate part is subverted in the adventure path proper, as some visions that can be averted and there are multiple ‘timelines’ the major Oracle character can witness. The comedy/tragedy thing isn’t really something one can do save based on the subjective tastes of the group. The adventure likely has potentially tragic moments (cities being destroyed, NPCs suffering cruel fates, adventure plots and backstories revolving around past injustices, etc), but more comedic and absurdist elements aren’t really present from my initial reading. The World of Thylea: Thylea is an island-continent located in a remote section of the known world, guarded from the rest by the actions of the local gods. Ample islands and peninsulas reach off its southern shores, lush forests and valleys occupy much of the central area, while wild steppes in the far north are ill-explored save by nomadic bands of centaurs, cyclopes, and various monsters. Thylea’s recorded history stretches back 2,500 years, when much of the continent was home to fey races such as nymphs and satyrs, and the ur-cyclops race known as gygans* ruled a mighty empire. Two deities, the Titans Sydon and Lutheria, reigned supreme over the land and received worship and sacrifice by mortals. Over time, various refugees, sailors lost at sea, and other people from unknown lands found themselves on Thylea’s shores, where they had complicated relationships with the native races. Sometimes such conflicts were violent, and they beseeched Sydon and Lutheria for protection. Which they received, but not enough that they were capable of building civilizations beyond some meager far-flung villages. *a smaller yet more intelligent subrace of six-armed cyclops. This all changed when a group of warriors astride mighty bronze serpents known as the Dragonlords set wing and foot upon Thylea’s coasts. They helped the settler races build great cities and repel the worst of the centaur and gygan raids, and soon the Titans grew jealous at their status. The First War was waged, causing great devastation on both sides. As the last of the Dragonlords fell, a new pantheon of Five Gods came down from heaven to prevent the Titans from destroying all. Eventually an Oath of Peace was brokered between the old and new pantheons; the details were vague, but for 500 years Sydon and Lutheria swore not to take revenge upon Thylea’s mortals and in exchange they would continue to receive honor and tribute in the form of temple maintenance and daily sacrifices. But as of the campaign’s beginning, it is mere months before the Oath of Peace ends, and the famed Oracle prophecies the Doom of Thylea. Where even the gods die and the mortal races are wiped off the face of the earth. The PCs, notable heroes in their own right, are summoned by her to find ways of averting this dire prediction. Powers, Factions, & Mortal Kingdoms of Thylea: These next three sections discuss religion and politics of the setting. Beginning with the deities, it is known that the gods and goddesses of Thylea are not the only ones out there, although foreign gods from the wider world leave Thylea largely untouched and their worshipers are few in number beyond some storm-tossed foreigners. The two major pantheons are the Ancient Titans and the Five Gods, although there are Forgotten Gods whose names and power grew few to the point that they are rarely honored outside of specific groups. With a few exceptions the gods do not dwell in separate planes of existence, but live in the Material Plane so as to keep a closer watch on their mortal charges. For example, Sydon spends much of his time in the lighthouse-fortress Praxys, while Pythor and Vallus are the ruler and wife of a ruler, respectively, in two of the larger city-states. Narsus, the God of Beauty, is not technically ‘forgotten’ but is the patron god/prisoner of the city-state of Aresia.  As you can see by the above, the Titans are the more ‘natural,’ cruel, and tempestuous of the pantheons. Thylea is the oldest titan, for it is said that the very continent is her body, her limbs extending as deep roots throughout the earth. Kentimane is Thylea’s husband, a gigantic being who stands taller than the highest mountain and regularly patrols the seas around the continent so as to guard his wife’s tomb from outside threats. The twins Sydon and Lutheria are the two surviving children of Thylea and Kentimane, their siblings long since murdered or imprisoned at the hands of their wicked kin. Sydon is a tyrannical deity in control of the seas and storms, and he longs for a world where all bow to his feet. He brooks no worship of any other entity besides his sister Lutheria, and even then only grudgingly. Lutheria is a cross between Hades and Dionysus, a harvester of souls and granter of insanity who encourages her followers to care about nothing but themselves and take what they will without consequence. Unsurprisingly the squickier elements of Odyssey shine through involving her or her worshipers; most NPCs who are sexual predators are loyal to her, and the goddess herself is a rapist in the “use enchantment magic to make people have sex with each other” kind of way. The worship of Sydon and Lutheria is a controversial one among mortal society; people make sacrifices to Sydon more out of fear than loyalty and for safe voyage, and many find Lutheria’s doctrines disgusting. But Lutheria has devotees among some noble houses, her followers control the wine trade, and they host some of the larger public holidays which makes her a tolerated evil. The Five Gods are the new pantheon, and unlike Sydon and Lutheria their acts of folly extend more to irresponsibility and lapses in judgment than outright sadism or malice. Mytros is the Goddess of Dawn and for whom the largest city-state is named. She is now back in the celestial realms after a battle with Sydon and Lutheria, and is by far the most common deity for clerics among the settler races to worship. Volkan is the God of Craftsmanship and invention, and is also the Santa Claus equivalent of the setting where he travels during the winter solstice as children await his gifts and sweets. Pythor is the God of War and has ruled over the city-state of Estoria for centuries after overthrowing its tyrannical king, and while popular his impulsiveness and alcoholism has dulled his ability to make wise decisions. Vallus, the Goddess of Wisdom, was once a traveler of the world and a collector of lore. Now she serves as the wife to King Acastus of the City of Mytros, and is prayed to for those seeking wisdom in overcoming some dilemma. Finally, Kyrah the Goddess of Music is a cross between Hermes and Apollo, known for being a quick-stepping trickster who provides inspiration to musicians and artists of all stripes. Thylea has Mortal Kingdoms but no true nation-states or empires in modern times. Generally speaking, society is divided into two groups: the three major city-states and smaller settlements under their protection, and various independent tribes and villages who are scattered yet self-sufficient. The native races largely fall into the latter category barring a few exceptions such as the satyrs who are fond of visiting larger settlements. The city-state of *Apologies for not knowing what Greek City-State it’s based on. We get a look at the ten major factions of Thylea, organizations who are either tied to a political or religious group or a power in their own right. Many of them check off typical fantasy trope boxes: the Cult of the Snake is a notable Mytrosian thieves’ guild, the Academy of Mytros is the foremost center of learning where philosopher-wizards hang out to share spells, the Order of Sydon is a paramilitary organization taking increasingly violent action against temples of the Five, the Centurions* of Mytros are said city’s standing army, and the Druids of Oldwood worship Thylea and make sacrifices to her to atone for the ‘original sins’ of the settler races’ presence on her land. The Temple of the Five and the Temple of the Oracle are institutions dedicated to the Five Gods and Versi the Oracle respectively, and only the former gets involved in secular politics with the Oracle being more removed from mundane affairs. The last three factions are monstrous in nature: the remnants of gygan tribes band together in small families and seek vengeance against the settler races, the centaurs of the Steppes war upon each other and the city-state of Estoria when they’re not partying and stargazing, and the Raving Ones are maenad worshipers of Lutheria who dwell in caves and shadowed glens, ambushing unlucky travelers to rob, torture, and sacrifice to their patron. *hey, that’s a Roman term! The inhabitants of Thylea are collectively referred to as Mortals, even those among the native and fey races to distinguish them from the more monstrous and divine entities. The ‘native races’ include the more classic Greek mythology creatures: centaurs, the various cyclops subraces (who are sadly non-playable), medusae, minotaurs, satyrs, and sirens. The ‘settler races’ include the standard PHB stock, and are pretty much assimilated wholesale into greater Thylean society beyond a few rare exceptions: orcs do not exist on Thylea so the half-orcs are a small community in Mytros, while tieflings are referred to as “Stygeans'' and live in Mytros’ ghettos due to a believed association with Lutheria. Dragonborn are virtually non-existent, and if one were to show up the average Thylean may think them to be either a monster or a scion of the Dragonlords. The inclusion of the non-human PHB races is perhaps the most obvious case of ‘square peg round hole’ for importing D&D tropes into Odyssey. Most NPCs who aren’t of the native races or monsters are humans, and there’s no real place in the world for elves or dwarves that makes thematic sense. I find that the native races more or less fill most of the PHB races’ roles: centaurs and minotaurs are strong warrior guys, nymphs are nature-loving magical people, medusae are the cursed and shunned outcasts, and satyrs and sirens have Dexterity bonuses and racial features which are good for subtle distractions and/or mobility. The only real thing missing is a half-elf ‘jack of all trades’ or Small-sized races like gnomes and halflings. We briefly get into the Laws and Oaths of Thylea. They are magically-binding aspects of the world which virtually all native Thyleans know, and even the gods can be limited by them. Generally speaking if a person swears to do or not do something, then they suffer some persistent misfortune should they intentionally break the oath. The Furies, who are not gods but very powerful beings, are three women tasked with interpreting and enforcing said Oaths. They dispatch erinyes to take the more egregious Oathbreakers to their own special hell in the afterlife known as the Island of Oathbreakers. The most common types of Oaths are Guest Friendship (hospitality to those who invite you into their home) which is used for neutral meeting grounds and periods of peace even between sworn enemies; an Oath of Peace, where the swearer promises to commit no violence against them or their servants; an Oath of Protection, a one-time promise to come to a person or group’s aid in times of crisis; and an Oath of Service, where someone swears to perform one task on behalf of an individual. This last one is the most rare for said task is open-ended and the beneficiary of the Oath can ask them to perform dangerous, suicidal, or even wicked deeds. We also get a list of sample curses for those who break Oaths, but can also be for those who otherwise anger the gods or commit some other great crime. They are persistent conditions which worsen over time and are typically only cured via powerful magic or rectifying the original misdeed. Curse of the Harpy and Curse of the Medusa transform the victim into the aforementioned monster types, while Curse of the Graverobber makes all food non-nourishing and slowly starves the tomb-robber to death.* Finally, Curse of the Treacherous causes the Furies to dispatch a trio of erinyes devils with special spells and equipment (entangling ropes, plane shift, etc) to kidnap the unfortunate soul and take them to the Island of Oathbreakers. *this is only inflicted on those who steal from holy sites; otherwise the average adventurer would be in deep poo poo. Epic Paths  Epic Paths are one of the larger aspects of Odyssey of the Dragonlords. Added on in addition to standard backgrounds, they are aspects of a PC which tie them into the larger plot. There are certain points in the Adventure Path where a relevant Epic Path will provide an alternative means of solving a task, bonus quests and rewards, fosters a relationship with an existing important NPC, and in some cases explains what the PC was up to before the start of the campaign. Barring one exception they are all mutually exclusive, so every PC must have a different Epic Path than the rest of the party. Additionally, each Path has a Divine Boon of some sort where the PC can be rescued them from death for free only once in the campaign. It may take the form of a notable NPC coming to resurrect them, fate turning things in their favor at the last moment, the spirit of a loved one possessing their body to bring them back from the brink of death, and so on and so forth. Furthermore, there’s a Divine Blessing which is gained via completion of the Epic Path’s overall story, and some can end earlier than others on the Adventure Path. The Paths’ entries outline the various milestones encountered during the adventure, but said adventure sections in the appropriate chapters also make callbacks in handy little sidebars for user-friendliness. For said reasons I won’t cover them here but instead during the review of relevant chapters. Demi-God: The PC is one of Pythor’s many bastard children, and the god feels in his heart that their progeny will succeed where he failed and maybe take his place as the God of War. Vanished One: The PC is the last surviving Dragonlord, but the Oracle Versi became obsessed with them and jealously took them as a favored pet/implied concubine a la Odysseus and Circe. Her magic helped the Vanished One be virtually ageless, but ephemeral time spent in a secluded cave has dulled their abilities. Doomed One: Lutheria has a thing for murdering children, and sacrificing babies is one of her cult’s most infamous rites. The PC parents were part of her cult but refused to offer up their only child for slaughter. This earned their death at the hands of the goddess’ many servants. Lutheria’s minions have tormented the PC ever since and making their life hell, the goddess viewing the whole affair as incredibly funny. Unlike the other Paths, the PC can be resurrected immediately twice upon death, but the third time they remain dead forever unless or until Lutheria is destroyed. The Haunted One: The PC had a happy idyllic life with a loving family. But a prophecy foretold that the PC will find a way to overcome death itself, thus posing a threat to Lutheria’s dominion. So she used her powers to gather the souls of the PCs’ loved ones in her scythe. But she made one mistake: the PC somehow escaped her clutches thanks to Mytros shielding them and erasing all memories of their legacy from reality. But the PC remembers what they lost, if not necessarily the deities involved. The Gifted One: Like the Demi-God the PC has a divine bloodline, but as one of Sydon’s grandchildren. The cruel god murdered his mortal wife, but was unaware that she gave birth to a daughter, who is in turn the PC’s mother. Said PC is destined to restore the glory of the Dragonlords and defeat their grandfather. The Lost One: The PC is the survivor of a shipwreck from a foreign realm outside of Thylea, and more than one PC can choose this Epic Path. This one has the last least ties to the adventure path, and its main goal is to find a way back home. The Dragonslayer: The PC’s village was wiped out by a dragon raining flaming breath down upon hapless innocents. Said ‘dragon’ is actually Helios the Sun God (something not known immediately), and the Epic Path revolves around hunting down and slaying the one who took everything from them. The Cursed One: The PC hails from a family or tribe who carry an ancestral curse from the Titans’ wrath. The PC has faced a life of difficulty, and their brethren are fated to die off within a generation if a means of lifting the curse isn’t found. Guidelines are provided for the DM to make their own Epic Path; the advice focuses mostly on how to ideally space the magic item rewards based on level, making granted special powers equivalent to Epic Boons from the DMG, NPC mounts and companions should be of CR 3 or lower, Divine Blessings follow the guidelines for Supernatural Gifts (Blessings unsurprisingly) under the DMG’s Other Rewards section, and the Divine Boons should involve a key NPC from the plot riding in as the cavalry to save the PC’s now-dead bacon. The remaining sections are short entries which can be better summed up in future chapters: an Adventure Overview outlining the plot in bite-sized chunks as well as recommended Fame and Experience Levels for the major Chapters, advice on Session 0 prep and how the PCs came together, and sample advice for role-playing the more notable and recurring characters of the Adventure Path (most notably the gods). The last part of our chapter is a picture of the Thylean alphabet which is similar to the one of Ancient Greece’s.  Thoughts So Far: I feel that this is overall a rather good introduction to the world of Thylea. We didn’t get into any deep detail or new mechanics and rules, and some of the entries feel like they’d be more appropriate in later sections on account that they show up much later in the book. I do find it rather funny how the city-state with the God of War as ruler is not the one ripping off of Sparta, though. The mechanics-facing aspects of the Epic Paths show up in the appendix, and speaking of which they’re a mixed bag. Some of them have more pertinent ties into the world and larger plot, such as the Demi-God and Haunted One. Others feel more like side-plots at most such as the Cursed One, Lost One, and Dragonslayer. The Vanished One being captive by an incredibly possessive character has quite a few warning bells,* and given that the Oracle is meant to be a major patron and the person who summons the call to adventure for the party in the first place, it is the kind of thing that may require a social contract or Trigger Warning for the gaming group to clear beforehand. Additionally, the Doomed One and Haunted One are too close in concept (Lutheria took away your family) and their relevant plot points are also the same. I understand that trying to make enough potential paths which have differing consequences echoing throughout an entire campaign can be difficult, so my criticism on the sameness front is a bit muted. *like making the PC swear an oath to return to her cave when all is said and done, trying to murder characters they fall in love with, and also restoring said PC to life via a kiss as the Divine Boon. All in all, I feel that this is a good introduction, but some things can be ordered better. Join us next time as we cover new options for PCs: races, class archetypes, spells, equipment, and the rewards and Divine Blessings for the Epic Paths!
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Apr 8, 2020 01:36
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PurpleXVI posted:Even in a lot of the shows that are ostensibly "real robot," scrape away the paint a bit and you still get protagonists that succeed because of their BURNING SPIRIT rather than because of any application of tactics or technical know-how. In fact I have a real hard time thinking of any robot shows that don't do that.
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Apr 8, 2020 01:45
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I think what a lot of people want out of a real robots show is just Band of Brothers or Saving Private Ryan but with robots.
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Apr 8, 2020 02:10
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Terrible Opinions posted:I think what a lot of people want out of a real robots show is just Band of Brothers or Saving Private Ryan but with robots. So pretty much 08th MS Team then.
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Apr 8, 2020 02:13
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I just want more Front Mission. I love international intrigue technothrillers and proxy wars, but with mech suits.
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Apr 8, 2020 02:20
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Huh, this looks interesting. Greek mythology can be so interesting to delve into, but it can also be pretty hard to get players to buy into their characters' flaws and tragedies being as epic as their strengths and triumphs.
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Apr 8, 2020 02:38
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PurpleXVI posted:I haven't read Lancer, so I wouldn't know what is or is not Lancer. Votoms. It's incredible and maybe the pinnacle of mech tv? Not that i don't like ye gundams and such but votoms is incredible.
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Apr 8, 2020 02:55
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PurpleXVI posted:Even in a lot of the shows that are ostensibly "real robot," scrape away the paint a bit and you still get protagonists that succeed because of their BURNING SPIRIT rather than because of any application of tactics or technical know-how. In fact I have a real hard time thinking of any robot shows that don't do that. Gundam and VOTOMS, the grand daddies of Real Robot (which a strong reminder that the spin offs and later Gundams don't). Gundam touches on real themes of spirituality and the like, but Amuro only mattered because Char and the Earth Federation baited Zeon forces into thinking he and Gundam were more important than they were, with Amuro dying at the hands of a random, lucky mook in the books. In VOTOMS, it's a running gag how quickly the Scopedogs and stuff blow up, and are destroyed at the end or even middle of an episode. Chirico does not have any connection to his mecha whatsoever, and will happily ram into something else to explode as a method of attack. Hell, Code Geass starts as this, only to fall apart in season 2.
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Apr 8, 2020 03:17
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I like the Greek setting in theory, but hey that's way too much* temptress woman uses magic whammy to bind character she's into. *more than 0
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Apr 8, 2020 03:57
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Leraika posted:I like the Greek setting in theory, but hey that's way too much* temptress woman uses magic whammy to bind character she's into. Boy you're going to love the upcoming Warhams adventure! By love I mean hate.
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Apr 8, 2020 03:58
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NutritiousSnack posted:Gundam and VOTOMS, the grand daddies of Real Robot (which a strong reminder that the spin offs and later Gundams don't). Gundam touches on real themes of spirituality and the like, but Amuro only mattered because Char and the Earth Federation baited Zeon forces into thinking he and Gundam were more important than they were, with Amuro dying at the hands of a random, lucky mook in the books. In VOTOMS, it's a running gag how quickly the Scopedogs and stuff blow up, and are destroyed at the end or even middle of an episode. Chirico does not have any connection to his mecha whatsoever, and will happily ram into something else to explode as a method of attack. Hell, Code Geass starts as this, only to fall apart in season 2. Wanting this kind of mech-crushing grit is fine but it feels like it's what everything tacks towards and it would be like if every martial-arts fantasy game was specifically trying to imitate Shaolin Soccer and Kung Fu Hustle.
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Apr 8, 2020 03:58
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Night10194 posted:Boy you're going to love the upcoming Warhams adventure! Yeah I heard hellwombs and got that distinct impression. 
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Apr 8, 2020 04:01
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Leraika posted:I like the Greek setting in theory, but hey that's way too much* temptress woman uses magic whammy to bind character she's into. Sadly, I long ago realized that that's common to every loving mythology on the planet. Beautiful woman who uses magic whammy to steam men she's into, beautiful woman who's actually a horrible monster that wants to eat people, beautiful woman who went out by herself and was
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Apr 8, 2020 04:08
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Libertad! posted:Lutheria is a cross between Hades and Dionysus, a harvester of souls and granter of insanity who encourages her followers to care about nothing but themselves and take what they will without consequence. Unsurprisingly the squickier elements of Odyssey shine through involving her or her worshipers; most NPCs who are sexual predators are loyal to her, and the goddess herself is a rapist in the “use enchantment magic to make people have sex with each other” kind of way. Yeah, this is where I checked out. I don't need that kind of verisimilitude.
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Apr 8, 2020 05:06
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Bieeanshee posted:Yeah, this is where I checked out. I don't need that kind of verisimilitude.
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Apr 8, 2020 05:23
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I mean, this is a thing an evil god is doing, so of course its loving terrible. Also, knowing my greek myth, there's a 50/50 chance you get to stomp up to her and kick some godly rear end.
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Apr 8, 2020 05:35
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Nessus posted:Isn't that dude basically Teela Brown from Ringworld, explicitly? Amuro or Chirico? Because Gundam is the evil twin brother of Star Wars, being the product of a poo poo ton of 1930-60's American sci fi novels, but especially Dune.
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Apr 8, 2020 05:37
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NutritiousSnack posted:Amuro or Chirico? Because Gundam is the evil twin brother of Star Wars, being the product of a poo poo ton of 1930-60's American sci fi novels, but especially Dune.
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Apr 8, 2020 05:45
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Nessus posted:Chirico, I'm familiar with Amuro. Chirico's luck is better and 'worse' than Teela Brown's. Yes, he won't die and his luck leads to him doing a bunch of bullshit, like killing an experimental next-gen Armored Trooper with a ricochet from his pistol. It doesn't mean that bad stuff won't happen to him, though. It just means it won't kill him. Being Chirico Cuvie is suffering.
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Apr 8, 2020 05:55
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Nessus posted:Chirico, I'm familiar with Amuro. Oh yeah. But I do mean the universe and story that it takes place in, and not the plot device that explains why the MC surivies his story like Arnold and Stallone do in their sholck action films.
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Apr 8, 2020 05:57
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Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e: The Thousand Thrones You're gonna have a bad time I think this is no poo poo the worst module in Warhammer. Thousand Thrones commits almost every sin it's possible to commit in writing a Warhammer adventure. It's poorly balanced (It is entirely possible to have to fight 4 vampires, at once, as PCs in their 1st tier. Or a dozen. This is intended to be 'bruising' but see them survive), the characters are thin and poorly written, it's full of utter nonsense plotting, it's railroaded all to hell, and it tries to stuff far too many villains into a plot that's too small for them, and it potentially kills off Rik'tikk, the cool as heck Clan Eshin 'scholar' who happily told us how to poison everything in the Old World Bestiary. It is extremely, extremely bad. Under no circumstances should you expose Thousand Thrones directly to your face. Not when you can have me do it for you. Still, I hold out the belief that a negative example can be instructive. In among all the exhortations to find ways to make sure your players' decisions all get them back on the railroad and its terrible plotting, there is actually absolutely nothing of value in this adventure. We are going to go through this mess as an example of how to absolutely not write a Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay campaign. To highlight the mechanical ridiculousness of many of the aspects of this adventure, and because I need something to keep me entertained while I work on this nonsense, we'll be creating a party of PCs for it to follow along. This is for several reasons. One, one of the major mechanical introductions made during this long campaign is the idea that classes can be split between 'Warriors', 'Rogues', 'Academics', 'Commoners', and 'Rangers'. It is recommended you let the players pick the role that pleases them and then roll for class on that role. To that end, we'd be remiss if we didn't make 5 unfortunate souls to fill all five of those slots. For two, this campaign has a firm idea of how fast your PCs should progress EXP wise, and I want to show off how ridiculous some of the mandatory combats are against a measurable team of PCs who follows its EXP guidelines. That requires a team to measure against. For three, it's an interesting exercise to imagine the actual reasons a party continues to follow the terrible railroad before them. For four, I like doing it and God knows I'm going to need something amusing in all this. This adventure is primarily the work of Robert Schwalb, who you will recognize from Forges of Nuln, the adventure so bad I spent most of the review talking about how it could potentially be fixed and why its 'open-ended' structure was an irritating railroad. I have to come to the conclusion he is just really, really bad at writing pre-made adventures. Our adventure begins 200 years ago, with the sack of Praag by the forces of Asavar Kul. During the whole 'converting Praag into a living hellmouth' debacle, a Hag of the Ungol was caught up in all the bullshit and became a Chaos Champion. The Black Witch then got her skull stoved in with Ghal Maraz, though she survived long enough to die in a pool of brackish water miles from the city. For some reason, Morr himself decided not to claim her soul so the evil witch could suffer forever. This proved to be kind of a mistake, because now she's trying to drag herself back into reality through a convoluted process involving multiple vampires and a magic child. She also already manifests sometimes by demanding a nearby village send her a maiden sacrifice she can possess every ten years. She needs the boy, the blood of one of each of the five vampire bloodlines, and then she'll be able to eat the magic boy and his power and become fully real again, while also spraying thousands of hideous spiders from her gaping hellwomb. Yeah, that's about where we're going. She has somehow convinced vampires that they will get to rule the world if they come to her with the boy, by making up an 'ancient' prophecy about how they'll rule the world from a thousand thrones. No, I don't know how that worked. You know Chaos, the instant it decides it's trying to convert someone, persuade someone, or trick someone in bad Warhammer they immediately listen to whatever it has to say and become extremely stupid. So too these vamps. Meanwhile, the magic boy was born to Stromfel Worshippers (crazy evil shark god distortion of Maanan) in Marienburg. They got crushed by Witch Hunters, who didn't kill the child and gave young Karl to the Shallyans. One of the Shallyans realized he had weird mind control powers (which he doesn't know he has) and tried to kill him. The others stopped her because A: Shallyans and B: Mind control powers. Then another evil cult decided to use the boy as a false Sigmar and a not-Valten. They branded his chest with the twin tailed comet after kidnapping him from the Shallyans, but he got away, and grabbed a blacksmith's hammer to defend himself. A little kid with a comet birthmark and his mind control powers going full speed standing against two heavily mutated Nurglites with a hammer drove a bunch of Marienburgers into a frenzy, where they saved him and proclaimed him Sigmar Reborn. Being a lonely nine year old kid who'd just had a traumatic experience, he decided this was fine and is going along with it for now. Meanwhile, that scheming bastard Johan Esmer (the political climber who wanted to be Theoganist but was kicked back out when Volkmar came back from the wars) has seen in this magic boy his chance to become head of the Church of Sigmar, and blessed him during his exile in Marienburg. The magic child and Esmer stuff is honestly the closest the adventure comes to good ideas. Into this, the PCs stumble their way, to get railroaded along with the Crusade of the Child and forced into a nonsense storm of body doubles, women getting mutated into hideous beasts, hellwombs, temptresses, shitloads of vampires (if you have a VAMPIRE RANDOM ENCOUNTER subset in your module, you are DOING VAMPIRES WRONG), lots of unrelated plotting, a stolen chicken, paper thin characters, poor pay, at least one child they have to murder, and an utterly miserable time. Next Time: The Poor Dumb Bastards Night10194 fucked around with this message at 18:49 on May 22, 2020 |
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Apr 8, 2020 06:02
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Fivemarks posted:I mean, this is a thing an evil god is doing, so of course its loving terrible. Also, knowing my greek myth, there's a 50/50 chance you get to stomp up to her and kick some godly rear end. Yes, and it's something I don't loving need in my games.
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Apr 8, 2020 06:05
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Fivemarks posted:Chirico's luck is better and 'worse' than Teela Brown's. Yes, he won't die and his luck leads to him doing a bunch of bullshit, like killing an experimental next-gen Armored Trooper with a ricochet from his pistol.
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Apr 8, 2020 06:22
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Nessus posted:Right, like, my thing is that I would like a toolkit that would let you run a game of something approximately analogous to UC Gundam or a Macross series - character is important but so are the machines and the nature of the doubletalk special sauce, whatever it may be. Instead it seems like it's either systems that lean hard one way or the other. I gather Mechwarrior, the RPG, was actually pretty good at this in that there were both the places where your character could plug into a Battletech minis game, or do independent adventuring. I've heard mixed things about Battle Century G (is that right?) I'm not a big fan of Battle Century G- Its devs, who I know, are basically on the level of Kevin S. and John Wick (of L5R) when it comes to dealing with disagreements and creative criticism. On the other hand, the game system I'm working on does try to put an equal emphasis on player's machine and a player's character.
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Apr 8, 2020 06:32
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Libertad! posted:The last part of our chapter is a picture of the Thylean alphabet which is similar to the one of Ancient Greece’s. That's not just similar to the Greek alphabet—that is the Greek alphabet. Though not necessarily the ancient Greek alphabet; all of those letters are still used in modern Greek, and there were a few letters used in various times and places in ancient Greece that aren't in use today. The Greek alphabet arrived at its modern form by about the fourth and fifth centuries B.C., but it's based on the alphabet used in Ionia (part of Greece) before that. Now, that's not in the same order as the Greek alphabet—they changed the order to match up to the English alphabet—but all the letters are there; they're just scrambled relative to their Greek order. Also, sigma (σ)—the letter corresponding to S in the chart—actually has two different forms, one for when it appears at the beginning or in the middle of a word and a different form for what it appears at the end of the word. (The form in the chart is the beginning-or-middle-of-the-word form.) But I can understand why they made those changes; they wanted to show the letters in relation to the (roughly) corresponding letters of the English alphabet, so they changed the order, and the two forms of sigma were a detail that probably wasn't worth going into just for their game use. There's just one thing about the Greek letters in the chart that really seems odd to me: all of them are lower case except iota (the letter corresponding to i). Like English letters, Greek letters have different upper case and lower case forms (well, some of them look pretty much the same in upper case except bigger (just like some letters in English), but iota isn't one of them), and it seems weird to put one and only one of the Greek letters in upper case. Most of their matches between Greek and English letters are more or less reasonable (I notice upsilon appears three times in the chart, for U, V, and Y, but that's actually justifiable), but a few of them are a bit of a stretch. The worst offenders are eta and omega—the two Greek letters they have corresponding to H and W, respectively. Eta and omega are both vowels. I'm speaking roughly here (and of course I'm not a linguist, so I may not be saying this exactly right), but basically, ancient Greek differentiated between long and short vowels, and while the letters alpha (α), iota (ι), and upsilon (υ) were each used for both short and long vowels more or less corresponding respectively to a, i, and u, for e and o there were two different letters for the short and long versions: epsilon (ε) for short e and eta (η) for long e, and omicron (ο) for short o and omega (ω) for long o. Upper-case eta does look like an H, which may be why it's matched to H in the chart, but it does not represent an H sound. Greek didn't (and still doesn't) have a letter equivalent to H. When a word begin with an H sound in ancient Greek, that was signified by a symbol above the initial vowel that looked like a backwards apostrophe (a "rough breathing"). For example, in ancient Greek Hades was written Ἅιδης. (That last letter is the word-final form of sigma.) It's true that there were words that began with eta and began with an H sound, but the eta didn't represent the H sound; it represented the vowel that came after the H sound, while the H sound was represented by the rough breathing mark. The name of the goddess Hera, for instance, would have been written Ἥρᾱ—that letter that looks like a capital H is actually the vowel eta that corresponds to the letter "e" in the name; the H is signified by that backwards apostrophe next to it. As for omega, there's really no reason to match it up to W except that I guess that's a letter that they didn't have a match for—and I guess because the lower-case omega (ω) does look like a curvy w. (The upper-case omega looked completely different: Ω.) Greek didn't really have anything that corresponded to the English W—maybe upsilon (υ) can sometimes be interpreted as a consonant, but when it is it's generally transliterated as a V. Can you think of any characters from ancient Greek mythology with names that contain a W (in their most standard English spellings)? You can't, because there aren't any. Anyway, sorry if anyone's bored by this; like I said, I'm not a linguist, but I do find languages very interesting, and while I'm certainly not fluent in Greek or anything like that, I know just enough about the Greek alphabet to be able to analyze this chart...
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Apr 8, 2020 08:51
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NutritiousSnack posted:Gundam and VOTOMS, the grand daddies of Real Robot (which a strong reminder that the spin offs and later Gundams don't). Gundam touches on real themes of spirituality and the like, but Amuro only mattered because Char and the Earth Federation baited Zeon forces into thinking he and Gundam were more important than they were, with Amuro dying at the hands of a random, lucky mook in the books. In VOTOMS, it's a running gag how quickly the Scopedogs and stuff blow up, and are destroyed at the end or even middle of an episode. Chirico does not have any connection to his mecha whatsoever, and will happily ram into something else to explode as a method of attack. Hell, Code Geass starts as this, only to fall apart in season 2. VOTOMs goes a long way, but apparently past the second arc or so, which I admit is where I stopped watching, Chirico turns out to have magic powers or some such poo poo? Going entirely by word of mouth here, mind you, but yes, VOTOMs is probably the realest robotest show I can name and those two first arcs are loving great. Gundam is uhhhh... hahahahah. Okay so the problem with Gundam is that it tries so hard to be semi-realistic but the authors can never stop themselves bringing in superweapons and fated ultrapilots that don't need tactics because they just use their soul magic or cyborg implants or psionics or whatever and then they win the fight. I think genuinely the only moment I enjoyed in a Gundam show was the end of the first season of 00 where a bunch of military veterans used tactics and coordination to gently caress up a bunch of idiot super-robots piloted by genetically-engineered ultrapilots(And then of course some even more super super pilots showed up and won the day for them anyway). Take my critique with a grain of salt in the sense that I haven't watched any of the newer Gundam stuff nor the very oldest, so if like, Iron Blooded Children or whatever it's called is a huge step up in quality from [checks] Gundam SEED, ha ha, what wouldn't be, then that's cool and good. 08th MS was also pretty good for the first half, which as far as I know fits pretty well with when the main writer or something committed suicide, which is the story related to me for how the show suddenly seems to jump off the rails and change tone.
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Apr 8, 2020 09:11
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Personally, I love the logic of calling the ocean in the middle of the drat archipelago the "Forgotten Sea." There's a reason most of the ancient names for the Mediterranean translate to some variation of "the middle sea" or "the great sea" or just "the sea" (or, if you're the Roman's and extremely confident in your naval power, "our sea"), after all. Like, are all those islands to the south uninhabited? Is there something magical about the sea that makes people forget it? Am I just way overthinking this? I don't know why this bugs me so much. Also yeah, the Lutheria stuff is loving gross and unnecessary.
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Apr 8, 2020 09:13
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PurpleXVI posted:VOTOMs goes a long way, but apparently past the second arc or so, which I admit is where I stopped watching, Chirico turns out to have magic powers or some such poo poo? Going entirely by word of mouth here, mind you, but yes, VOTOMs is probably the realest robotest show I can name and those two first arcs are loving great. After the Kunmen arc, it becomes Dune. No, i'm not even kidding about this. However, Kunmen is a pretty goddamned strong arc. If you want more like the first two arcs of VOTOMS, go watch Fang of the Sun Dougram, from the same creator. The first 50 episodes are on Youtube, and I can get you the last 25. PurpleXVI posted:
This checks out, though a large portion of the western fanbase got buttmad over it ending with the main character's in their gundams being overwhelmed and taken out by mass orbital artillery fire. Also it had Vidar, and IN THIS HOUSE WE STAN VIDAR.
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Apr 8, 2020 09:23
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PurpleXVI posted:Gundam is uhhhh... hahahahah. Okay so the problem with Gundam is that it tries so hard to be semi-realistic but the authors can never stop themselves bringing in superweapons and fated ultrapilots that don't need tactics because they just use their soul magic or cyborg implants or psionics or whatever and then they win the fight. I think genuinely the only moment I enjoyed in a Gundam show was the end of the first season of 00 where a bunch of military veterans used tactics and coordination to gently caress up a bunch of idiot super-robots piloted by genetically-engineered ultrapilots(And then of course some even more super super pilots showed up and won the day for them anyway). Take my critique with a grain of salt in the sense that I haven't watched any of the newer Gundam stuff nor the very oldest, so if like, Iron Blooded Children or whatever it's called is a huge step up in quality from [checks] Gundam SEED, ha ha, what wouldn't be, then that's cool and good.. I mean, Iron-Blooded Orphans hinges on a combination of some decent tactics and 'the main pilot for the protagonist faction is a wunderkind with a neural interface who pilots like a demon.' However, the show doesn't give the protagonists any real superweapons beyond 'a Gundam' and the ace in question basically just does an inhumanly effective rushdown with a heavy object in his robot fists, so the fights are pretty engaging; the setting tech also specifically has energy weapons as useless against modern mechs, which comes up when people start pulling out superweapons from the near-apocalyptic war that created the setting. It's very Gundam - in some ways a remake of the original Gundam plotline - but I think it leans towards the side of Gundam you seem more interested in? Oh, and (serious spoilers for the end of IBO): the protagonists lose, hard, at the end. They manage to get a long way by grit and dedication, but they end up outplayed by an absolute fucker of a second season antagonist who ends up killing the ace with orbital bombardment followed by mass assault. If I recall correctly, he never even gets in a Gundam, he just employs people to do that and deploys weapons that are banned by the Space Geneva while safely in his capital ship. IBO has plenty of 'heroic super-pilots' but in the end, logistics and being a tactically capable fucker win the day. And I'm still mad about it. If anything, my complaint is that it goes too far in the opposite direction, to the point of having plans fail the protagonists that reasonably should have succeeded, but something minor went wrong to ruin their day, because the show turns into a grand tragedy. In un-spoiler terms, grit and raw talent can win some fights in IBO, but get rather brutally let down in some major instances. The protagonist group in general uses cyborg implants that allow them to pilot with more effectiveness through a neural interface, but the implant can only be done safely on children and even then it has a decent chance of death or paralysis; this mostly exists to allow the child soldiers to be competent to face off against professional adult soldiers in mechs and not just get destroyed. The show can be sort of performatively cynical, but overall I think it strikes a decent balance. E: Wow, my spoilered paragraph is totally redundant now. Also yeah, we stan Vidar. Poor guy. However, Vidar also fought on the same side as Iok, and anyone who knows Iok and doesn't shove him out an airlock is complicit in both war crimes and sheer, unbearable aristocratic failson idiocy. Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Apr 8, 2020 |
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Apr 8, 2020 09:31
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Leraika posted:I like the Greek setting in theory, but hey that's way too much* temptress woman uses magic whammy to bind character she's into. Oh dear, yeah the gender politics in this book are... they aren't great to put it as mildly as possible. I think a lot of the things needed more than a bit of fine tuning to be completely honest. I am still going to use some of the monster in it, but I think Theranos may well be a better setting for this sort of thing.
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Apr 8, 2020 09:53
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I feel like Vidar only put up with Failiok because killing him wouldn't let him get revenge. But at the same time, Vidar probably wouldn't expressly go out of his way to save Iok if it didn't serve the purpose of revenge.
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Apr 8, 2020 09:54
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Fivemarks posted:I feel like Vidar only put up with Failiok because killing him wouldn't let him get revenge. But at the same time, Vidar probably wouldn't expressly go out of his way to save Iok if it didn't serve the purpose of revenge. Still means putting up with the guy who used the apocalypse-era superweapon on unarmed civilian transports, and the boss who continued to promote said guy because it turns out said superweapon was extremely useful for killing dissidents. Vidar is sympathetic but everyone* on that side of the conflict is beyond irredeemable. That's sort of the point. *In the command structure, at least.
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Apr 8, 2020 09:56
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Joe Slowboat posted:Still means putting up with the guy who used the apocalypse-era superweapon on unarmed civilian transports, and the boss who continued to promote said guy because it turns out said superweapon was extremely useful for killing dissidents. That said, It's still a better Gundam series than AGE. Iok's a failson and we're supposed to hate him; Lord Ezelcant is a genocidal crazyman and we're supposed to see him as enlightened.
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Apr 8, 2020 09:57
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