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One More Fat Nerd posted:There's a theory in scifi circles that Card didnt even write Enders Game, or that it was secretly a collaborative effort. Also, as a related theory, there's some evidence the book is coded Hitler apologia. The Ender=Hitler analysis was one of the first big criticisms of the book almost immediately after it came out, in an article published in... I think one of the big sci-fi mags at the time. The funny thing is that OSC's response to it was (and I'm paraphrasing but not embellishing) that Ender and Hitler aren't alike at all, except in one way, that they both are hated by the public because they committed genocide, but in Ender's case the genocide was justified and the public are wrong in hating him for committing it, so he's not actually like Hitler. Just let that sink in. (I seem to remember that it was forbidden to even cite this article on OSC's personal website forum.) Fifteen years ago there was another big Ender=Hitler article, and that one is available online so I'll link it: https://johnjosephkessel.wixsite.com/kessel-website/creating-the-innocent-killer
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Apr 7, 2020 19:41
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I really enjoyed Speaker for the Dead  I wouldn't mind seeing a run at an adaptation of that, which could very appropriately shed any baggage from the adaption of Ender's Game.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:43
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15 years ago Card was really busy making noise about how the Iraq was a brilliant idea and morally just.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:45
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I'll take the opportunity to link to another classic essay on the fascist aspects of space opera, Michael Moorcock's 1977 Starship Stormtroopers: https://libcom.org/library/starship-stormtroopers-michael-moorcock
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Apr 7, 2020 19:48
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This is my favorite book trailer and I still long for an animated adaptation in this style: https://youtu.be/5nHBylwZRgE
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Apr 7, 2020 23:51
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We're never gonna get a good Dinotopia adaptation. 
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Apr 8, 2020 02:02
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Kaiju Cage Match posted:We're never gonna get a good Dinotopia adaptation. The audio dramas are pretty solid.
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Apr 8, 2020 02:11
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Barudak posted:The term Bildungsroman just celebrated its 200th birthday, its a very old and enduring genre of literature. Lika a Roman who works in construction?
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Apr 8, 2020 02:46
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The Ender = Hitler comparison is kinda there, but Card also spends the rest of the sequels going 'yeah but it was really hosed up what Ender did' and having him atone for it so...
Vandar fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Apr 8, 2020 |
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Apr 8, 2020 03:43
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i don't really see the comparison if you know literally anything about Hitler's life. Though weirdly enough I can't help but think of NGE with Ender basically being the closest counterpart to Shinji.
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Apr 8, 2020 04:56
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Ghost Leviathan posted:i don't really see the comparison if you know literally anything about Hitler's life. Yeah. Ender was a kid conditioned to hurt people at the behest of his handlers, whose act of rebellion through malicious compliance played into their hands, tragically. You might be better off trying to make a comparison with the Hitler Youth. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Apr 8, 2020 |
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Apr 8, 2020 05:28
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Vandar posted:Excuse you. They're called Formics. Yeah he can't stand formic haters either.
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Apr 8, 2020 05:54
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I can't speak for the magazine article but that website always struck me as mostly tongue-in-cheek at OSC's expense (for understandable reasons).
mycot fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Apr 8, 2020 |
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Apr 8, 2020 05:59
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Vandar posted:The Ender = Hitler comparison is kinda there, but Card also spends the rest of the sequels going 'yeah but it was really hosed up what Ender did' and having him atone for it so... The Ender is Hitler thing sort of makes sense if you think it's important to divide the world into good and bad people, and be really loud about how you don't like the bad people. Otherwise it's just sort of an exercise in aggressively missing the point of the whole story.
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Apr 8, 2020 06:32
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Rahonavis posted:This is my favorite book trailer and I still long for an animated adaptation in this style: The illustrator James Gurney’s “Color And Light” was one of the best and most comprehensive books I read when I was learning how to paint. Bring back dinotopia you cowards.
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Apr 8, 2020 06:42
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Punkin Spunkin posted:As someone who hasnt read any of this guy's books or knows much about him i just read the plot for this in its wiki and its amazing in the worst stupidest way Kim Stanley Robinson is cool, he spoke to my class in college and laughed at a joke I made (and the fact I felt comfortable being funny in front of a famous person speaks to how chill he was). As an aside.
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Apr 8, 2020 09:53
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Schwarzwald posted:Yeah. Ender was a kid conditioned to hurt people at the behest of his handlers, whose act of rebellion through malicious compliance played into their hands, tragically. The article (which doesn’t compare him to Hitler) does a solid job laying out the ways Card uses super contrived situations and dialogue to generate sympathy, but then when it reaches the climax of the book it’s super misleading. The writer starts to conflate the child soldiers (a term he conspicuously doesn’t use) with the military officers who have enslaved them, and elides their fact that while the officers know what’s going on the child soldiers literally believe they’re playing a training sim and so their malicious compliance is not even something they could anticipate resulting in deaths. They’re literally trying to flunk school on purpose
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Apr 8, 2020 15:39
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Rick posted:Kim Stanley Robinson is cool, he spoke to my class in college and laughed at a joke I made (and the fact I felt comfortable being funny in front of a famous person speaks to how chill he was). Yeah, ksr is a lovable gooff, his sex writing might turn you off but he's harmless.he needs a editor who reigns him in and keeps him focused, but I'm not a best seller sci fi author so what do I know?
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Apr 8, 2020 16:37
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Chairman Capone posted:I'll take the opportunity to link to another classic essay on the fascist aspects of space opera, Michael Moorcock's 1977 Starship Stormtroopers: Michael Moorcock is one of my fav authors, and absolutely psyched to see he had awesome politics as well.
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Apr 8, 2020 17:26
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Shageletic posted:Michael Moorcock is one of my fav authors, and absolutely psyched to see he had awesome politics as well. Michael Moorcock wrote a book in the 70s about an African warlord who conquers the US and forces all of the white people into re-education camps. It seemed to me a bit extreme when I first came across it 20 years ago but now? Dude might have been on to something.
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Apr 8, 2020 17:43
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Shageletic posted:Michael Moorcock is one of my fav authors, and absolutely psyched to see he had awesome politics as well. Google Epic Pooh, the only online version I could find was a download. Buts Moorcock ripping apart Tolkein's cryptofacism for 13 pages.
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Apr 8, 2020 17:54
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smug jeebus posted:Michael Moorcock wrote a book in the 70s about an African warlord who conquers the US and forces all of the white people into re-education camps. It seemed to me a bit extreme when I first came across it 20 years ago but now? Dude might have been on to something. I met a guy who was really into this and outlined the whole plot to me on a train ride. They use lighter than air ships to invade. Hurricanes for cover, in case anyone wants to try this (I had to ask)
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Apr 8, 2020 18:10
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Ghost Leviathan posted:i don't really see the comparison if you know literally anything about Hitler's life. I've read the original Ender == Hitler article and it's unconvincing. The author's thesis, from memory, was that Card was in some sequel going to close the loop and go "surprise, you've been sympathising with HITLER!" Certainly, there are several weird overlaps or coincidences that seem very unlikely but it still doesn't stick the landing. Then again, Card has sometimes shown ignorance as to what's in his own books, to the point where some have suggested they were ghostwritten. It might be easy to suggest he's just incredibly confused. I like the Kessel essay more, in that it pinpoints how and why Enders Game is such an attractive book to teens and it also exposes the shell game that Card plays with Ender. He's a killer, but innocent, but he feels guilty but had no choice, but he was manipulated by others, but he accepted the burden for them, but had good intentions ...
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Apr 8, 2020 19:40
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Mamkute posted:Remember when the the title character stomps on the Spanish boy's balls until he dies? User: Orson Scott Card Tags: Cock and Ball Torture (everything to do with it)
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Apr 9, 2020 07:08
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Antifa Poltergeist posted:Yeah, ksr is a lovable gooff, his sex writing might turn you off but he's harmless.he needs a editor who reigns him in and keeps him focused, but I'm not a best seller sci fi author so what do I know?
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Apr 9, 2020 08:05
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Who was the one who wrote the series about aliens invading during WWII that got progressively stupider as time went on? Was it Turtledove?
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Apr 9, 2020 08:19
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It was indeed Turtledove who wrote about the slowly developing aliens who got addicted to ginger and who gave humans furby technology.
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Apr 9, 2020 10:11
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Oh yeah, he's great. I'm reading The Year of Rice and Salt and while the whole samurai visiting native american confederacy and declaring them the greatest human government to stop the chinese or whatever stuff I'm at right now is a lil goofy i'm still really enjoying it. Years of Rice and Salt is one of my favorite books ever and yes it is completely bonkers
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Apr 9, 2020 14:02
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TTBF posted:It was indeed Turtledove who wrote about the slowly developing aliens who got addicted to ginger and who gave humans furby technology. I completely forgot about the ginger addiction part. As I recall it also activates their sex drive so it leads to their society developing prostitution as well.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:31
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Aurora is an awesome book and would probably make a great TV show or something. He is also an active socialist.Chairman Capone posted:I'll take the opportunity to link to another classic essay on the fascist aspects of space opera, Michael Moorcock's 1977 Starship Stormtroopers: This is a great essay, but I am less impressed with Epic Pooh, which for some ungodly reason has been updated recently to include praise for J.K. Rowling of all people, which, let's say, maybe undercuts his entire point. Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 14:33
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I'd be happy to answer any questions related to any book that Harry Turtledove has written. And ashamed, deeply, deeply ashamed.
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Apr 9, 2020 14:38
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I'd be happy to answer any questions related to any book that Harry Turtledove has written. So what's up with the elves' AIDS book?
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Apr 9, 2020 17:04
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Hakkesshu posted:This is a great essay, but I am less impressed with Epic Pooh, which for some ungodly reason has been updated recently to include praise for J.K. Rowling of all people, which, let's say, maybe undercuts his entire point. To be slightly fair to him, I think he wrote the update back in the early 00s, which doesn't excuse it because there was a lot of dumb stuff in the Potter books, but Rowling at least hadn't gone off the deep end that she has in the last few years.
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Apr 9, 2020 17:43
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TTBF posted:So what's up with the elves' AIDS book? The most shocking thing is that it was published this century.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:33
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I keep hearing people hating on Rowling like she's been saying some abhorrent stuff but my (admittedly lazy) googling didn't turn up anything. The only dumb things I really see are her obviously made up on-the-spot explanations for things like Wizards just taking dumps on the floor. Is it just blowback from how Twitter Liberals try and explain everything in terms of Harry Potter metaphors?
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Apr 9, 2020 18:43
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galagazombie posted:I keep hearing people hating on Rowling like she's been saying some abhorrent stuff but my (admittedly lazy) googling didn't turn up anything. The only dumb things I really see are her obviously made up on-the-spot explanations for things like Wizards just taking dumps on the floor. Is it just blowback from how Twitter Liberals try and explain everything in terms of Harry Potter metaphors? No, it's that she's basically dug down into TERF-y and similar "I'm a rich white woman now why would I care about the poors" behavior now that she has more money than god and that's a royal blow to a lot of people who liked her works and saw themselves in it growing up before realizing any intent in that area was accidental at best. A lot of this is that she'll signal boost some wretched individuals.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:49
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Was turtledove the one where aliens observe earth during the middle ages and decide to invade thinking it would be a walk over but due to relativistic travel arrive at earth when we already have firearms and poo poo gets wild? There are surprisingly few SF stories where invading aliens get totally curb stomped from the get go.remember reading one short story like that from John Steinbeck of all people.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:51
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Antifa Poltergeist posted:Was turtledove the one where aliens observe earth during the middle ages and decide to invade thinking it would be a walk over but due to relativistic travel arrive at earth when we already have firearms and poo poo gets wild? Due to  having something to do with being cold blooded and hatching from eggs and having a mating season, the aliens advance really really slowly and carefully technology wise. They've already conquered two other species who were exactly the same, so they assume humans are also. They send a probe to scout Earth in the 12th century and then spend 800 years slowly and carefully getting an overwhelming invasion fleet ready and and on the way. Then it arrives in 1942 and they're like what the gently caress.
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Apr 9, 2020 19:02
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I stopped reading Turtledove after the Worldwar and TL-191 series ended, his next few didn't seem interesting and then I stopped paying attention and moved on to different scifi genres only to occasionally read the plot synopsis of his newer novels while browsing the bookstore. None have seemed intriguing enough to try out.
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Apr 9, 2020 19:07
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galagazombie posted:I keep hearing people hating on Rowling like she's been saying some abhorrent stuff but my (admittedly lazy) googling didn't turn up anything. The only dumb things I really see are her obviously made up on-the-spot explanations for things like Wizards just taking dumps on the floor. Is it just blowback from how Twitter Liberals try and explain everything in terms of Harry Potter metaphors? along with the TERF stuff, she's a perfect example of a wealthy centrist who really really wants to support the left but they've driven her away by being mean.
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Apr 9, 2020 19:24
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