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i just got Quake 2 running on my 5K iMac with bootcamp using yQuake and it looks loving mindblowing. It would be cool getting this on Xbox/PS4!
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Apr 9, 2020 23:59
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Funny how the ray-tracing games to show off have been Quake 2 and Minecraft.
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Apr 10, 2020 00:01
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BisterdDave posted:Funny how the ray-tracing games to show off have been Quake 2 and Minecraft. A lot of that is just to impress developers and tech nerds. Minecraft and Quake 2 are the only games being done with nothing but ray tracing. All the others are traditionally rendered with a little ray tracing sprinkled on top.
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Apr 10, 2020 02:24
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God drat I miss q3ctf4. The first game I remember rocket jumping in was Marathon, which predates Quake, although not many folks were gaming on Macs back then.
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Apr 10, 2020 03:54
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We played Q3A with my CAD teacher in high school who in retrospect seemed like kind of a groomer type but at the time I was just excited to be shooting rail guns through people's heads at school.
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Apr 10, 2020 04:09
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Malcolm Turnbeug posted:imo don't buy any of the doom remakes except doom 64, the rest don't hold up nearly as well as they did in my mind, and somehow doom 64 is better than I remember it. Amid evil looks dope too. What the gently caress is this wrong-rear end opinion. Doom 1 is amazing
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Apr 10, 2020 04:11
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mem posted:God drat I miss q3ctf4. The first game I remember rocket jumping in was Marathon, which predates Quake, although not many folks were gaming on Macs back then. Marathon was one of my first FPS because one of my parents exclusively used macs at work and the IT guy rigged up every mac game he could on his personal system so when I got stuck waiting he let me play them. Shame that the maps were way, way, way more difficult than I was prepared for at that age. Barudak fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Apr 10, 2020 |
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Apr 10, 2020 04:52
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Barudak posted:Marathon was one of my first FPS because one of my parents exclusively used macs and the IT guy rigged up every mac game he could on his personal system. Shame that the maps were way, way, way more difficult than I was prepared for at that age. I tried to play through the 360 remaster of Marathon and gave up in defeat.
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Apr 10, 2020 05:44
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Fly Ricky posted:I tried to play through the 360 remaster of Marathon and gave up in defeat. The best part about marathon 1 is the manual and textlogs.
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Apr 10, 2020 17:07
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Marathon has some of my favorite story/lore ever but the maps are lovely and confusing. You can see how Bungie re-used some bits of Marathon world building in Halo.
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Apr 10, 2020 18:03
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The 360 Maraton was the sequel, no?
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Apr 10, 2020 18:59
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Akuma posted:The 360 Maraton was the sequel, no? Durandal or infinity? Durandals campaign owns Infinity is ehh but they give you mod tools that are cool
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Apr 10, 2020 19:53
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Stux posted:quake 3 and live are the kings. quake champions surprisingly ok but dead and will disappear with no servers. quake 2 fun. quake 1 yeah ok. best single player quake is now doom eternal. I forgot about Quake Champions and I get the marketing behind making it PC-only because the crowd they were appealing to would understandably eat that up but I do wish it would have had a console port by now because it looks like such a good pick-up-and-play game. Maybe they've given up on it since the player base must be really low right now (much like Epic did with the Unreal Tournament reboot) but that hasn't stopped Bethesda pumping into Fallout 76 so what harm could a port of Quake Champions and a little game update do? Also all this Quake chat is making me nostalgic as hell. Anyone remember when that mod for the first game came out that turned the axe into a grappling hook?  Surprised there's no other games where enemies will get angry with and fight each other, either. Used to be fun making levels in Quake that are full of enemies and creating a small hiding hole and just dumping a grenade in there, then watching all the monsters fight each other and see who wins because Ogres inevitably harm a Shambler or Fiend by mistake and all hell breaks loose 
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Apr 10, 2020 21:02
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SUNKOS posted:I forgot about Quake Champions and I get the marketing behind making it PC-only because the crowd they were appealing to would understandably eat that up but I do wish it would have had a console port by now because it looks like such a good pick-up-and-play game. Maybe they've given up on it since the player base must be really low right now (much like Epic did with the Unreal Tournament reboot) but that hasn't stopped Bethesda pumping into Fallout 76 so what harm could a port of Quake Champions and a little game update do? im pretty pro "controller players can actually handle faster paced fps" but i feel like champions would really be stretching it and i dont know how well strafe jumping would translate to a pad either quake grappling hook was apparently in quake 1! (ctf only (only if you had a mission pack))
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Apr 10, 2020 21:06
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The reason I bought an Xbox One in the first place was because Titanfall on PC was dying and I wanted more people to play against. Was playing on PC with a 360 controller  I just Googled the Quake Champions thing though and yeah, it seems they're sticking to PC-only and the reason is framerate, they want it 120 no matter what which is kinda odd since there's gonna be PC players running that game on hardware that can't manage that so it's kinda odd reasoning but eh v  vI wonder if somewhere down the line Quake will get the treatment Doom is getting right now? In my head I'm imagining them really leaning into a Bloodborne-style aesthetic for environments and monsters and it would be amazing. Given the puzzles and I remember some levels having really weird layouts and such, it could be a fun industrial/Lovecraft mish-mash Souls-styled FPS.
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Apr 10, 2020 21:17
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Consoles hold up fine in COD crossplay and Titanfalls worked. I might not like controller anymore but I don't believe that its unplayable.
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Apr 10, 2020 21:23
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titanfall isnt as quick though. champions has old style quake acceleration including characters with uncapped max speeds, and strafe jumping is a required mechanic. i really think it would struggle to be playable on controller
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Apr 10, 2020 21:28
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I think you're greatly overestimating what it takes to play Quake, especially Quake Champions. Just hold forward and shoot and its still fun. I dont think controllers dudes will be trying to do all that and if they do theyd be on PC.
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Apr 10, 2020 21:40
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Stux posted:titanfall isnt as quick though. champions has old style quake acceleration including characters with uncapped max speeds, and strafe jumping is a required mechanic. i really think it would struggle to be playable on controller Yeah you're probably right. People got Titan skating in the original Destiny and that poo poo was nuts, but still nothing like the speeds you could get strafe jumping around maps in Quake. Maybe if they ported Champions and included crossplay but for consoles only? If console players were playing with PC players it would be brutal I imagine, but just having PS/XB players together seems like it would be fine, I don't think anyone would manage to replicate proper strafe jumping and I'm not sure that would matter much? Apex Legends nerfed the movement available in the Titanfall games and turned out to be more popular. Could be the change in genre of course, but it makes me think Champions could be doable if tackled a certain way. Also just looked and saw Quake Champions is apparently on Steam now and the current season has the Quake 3 lightning gun skin as an unlock along with the Doom Eternal super shotgun No way my PC's running that game as intended, though.
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Apr 10, 2020 21:46
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RBX posted:I think you're greatly overestimating what it takes to play Quake, especially Quake Champions. Just hold forward and shoot and its still fun. I dont think controllers dudes will be trying to do all that and if they do theyd be on PC. i mean the maps are designed around it, the champions are balanced around it in particular with light champions being worthwhile entirely based on their strafe jump accel, and even without it a lot of champions have movement options that hit speeds that would be extremely difficult to track on any sensible controller sens for the user and other players. they would need to change things for a port to work on console and i dont think they have any interest in doing anything but life support at this point. it would be a different game thats lacking what gives the game its already anemic playerbase and would probably die even quicker. like im a big fan of console fps, especially with increased mobility, i loved doom 2016 on pad i played black ops 3 more than any other cod just because of all the movement tech but i think there is still a limit.
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Apr 10, 2020 22:01
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Stux posted:titanfall isnt as quick though. champions has old style quake acceleration including characters with uncapped max speeds, and strafe jumping is a required mechanic. i really think it would struggle to be playable on controller RBX posted:I think you're greatly overestimating what it takes to play Quake, especially Quake Champions. Just hold forward and shoot and its still fun. I dont think controllers dudes will be trying to do all that and if they do theyd be on PC. COD:AW had a few maps where you had to complete a tight 90 degree legit circle strafe in order to clear gaps to other rooftops. This was doable with practice on a controller and used commonly in higher level play due to the advantage. While I doubt you're going to see Rat/Rapha/CZM/Cooler like movement out of the gate if a Quake styled movement game released on a console, you'd most likely have people picking it up a lot quicker than you currently think. I doubt the movement would reach the peak it does on PC, but it wouldn't be far off and isn't an excuse for why it shouldn't be released. Quake based engine strafe movement wasn't twitchy anyway. You got the most acceleration by spinning in a specifically timed and controlled manner. If you twitched too early you'd lose momentum. The higher the framerate, the more smooth and precise your timing had to be.
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Apr 10, 2020 22:04
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the strafe jumping difficulty isnt twitch based its slow precise movement which affects where you are aiming at that moment. the movement itself would probably be very awkward on a controller and crosshair placement being in weird directions as you traverse a map and the increased acceleration from it is a lot more of an issue. unless you mean something im not aware of, whats used in cod and what you seem to be describing later is what would be a circle jump in quake and is a single jump with a large arc and a lot easier to handle on a pad. doing consistent constant strafe jumping is the thing i think would be an issue and if that is something you have to assume players wont be doing you probably need to rebalance things for the console version.
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Apr 10, 2020 22:14
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Stux posted:the strafe jumping difficulty isnt twitch based its slow precise movement which affects where you are aiming at that moment. the movement itself would probably be very awkward on a controller and crosshair placement being in weird directions as you traverse a map and the increased acceleration from it is a lot more of an issue. I think we are on the same page, except for agreeing on how easily controllers would pick up the movement. I was using the circle strafe in AW as an example due to circle strafes being a lot more precise than a normal strafe acceleration flick. Anecdotally, to me anyway, circles have always been more diffcult to master than a normal forward strafe movement. COD movement is hindered by a stamina system that retards jumping power if used reptitively, but it still shares the underlying engine with Quake and is still able to replicate certain aspects of the movement percularities. I mainly used the COD:AW example because I specifically remember having to learn the circle strafe in my example to make a very specific rooftop gap in order to stay competitive. I'm aware you most likely already know all this; just trying to setup my point. To expound further: to initiate a vanilla strafe jump and continue in a straight line, you'd start with a half circle strafe in one direction and then immediately on landing do the same in the opposite direction, alternating back and forth to gain and eventually keep your momentum. For the most part this is the same regardless of the amount of air control the engine is giving you (ie: Q1 vs Q2 or VQ3 vs CPMA). If you break it down to simple inputs, a circle strafe isn't any different than one part of a normal strafe's movement profile. I have no doubts that a controller user would be able to both initiate the strafe and keep it going, back and forth. The rest would be muscle memory and learning the maps and routes. This is my speaking from experience. I've played more hours than I care to admit in Q1, Q2, and Q3+CPMA. I haven't played champions, if it is indeed any different than the prior games.
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Apr 10, 2020 22:47
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I see your point in that the average population most likely wouldn't be doing it and I agree. But to counter, high level titanfall play on a console is insanely impressive even though a normal lobby was usually full of potatoes running in straight lines. To discount that its not possible I think is short sighted considering whats already being done with a controller.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:00
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to me a circle jump is easier but its what i learned first. thats where im going to have to disagree. the part thats missing here is a game like quake champions would basically require higher sens settings on controller for tracking which would make the smaller movements required for continual strafe jumping awkward to maintain while also steering effectively. even if you think people could you have to admit it would be an extremely tiny proportion of people, and even then the small movements on an analog stick would be extremely straining. theres also the aiming itself, not only would the strafe jumping be more difficult to flick from on a pad, how do you handle it? when i played ow on pad and mained pharah i would just turn aim assist off but how do you deal with it in champions? per weapon aim assist options? how do you ensure the lg doesnt become completely dominant? is sorlag going to become overpowering again? how do you deal with eisen? even if qc was doing ok on pc i think the effort needed for an effective console port would be not worth t he time.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:04
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again im not being down on controllers. my favorite console shooter is black ops 3 which i feel is one of the most mobile and twitchy shooters on console and i think controller has been constantly overlooked. people thought doom 2016 would be too fast. but coming from someone who plays and enjoys both fast pc and console shooters and considers themself pretty good at both i think there is an eventual limit on what a stick can handle and what speeds can be used on players and still be tracked sensibly and i think multiplayer quake with strafe jumping acceleration hits that point, and i think the movement tech itself is specifically harder on a stick due to the smaller and constant movements required combined with the faster player speed needing a relatively high aim sens.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:07
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I'll leave movement on the table since it appears we disagree on that front. As far as aiming goes, I think you have a few options that would likely have to be platform dependent (PC vs Console): 1. Enable a form of selective autoaim ala COD and design weapons around this fact 2. Redesign weapons so that autoaim isn't an issue (No single point hitscan weapons) 3. Disable autoaim entirely for all weapons ala R6:Siege I'm a purist so I would volunteer to disable autoaim and let the chips fall. I also see how that wouldn't be very marketable to the mainstream console crowd and met with some form of backlash. Whether or not thje complaints would be warranted is another story. I remember that it was originally argued that R6 Siege would fail on console because of no autoaim. That turned out to be untrue. I think the game is better due to it not having autoaim. I also understand it's not an arena shooter, but it still stands that console Siege, especially platinum and higher ranked level play, can be extremely twitchy and very accurate. As a better anecdote, I've played custom games of COD with everyone having autoaim disabled. It's fun and challenging, but completely doable. Faster than Siege, but still, not breakneck like Quake. So again, not very comparable, but still an example of something that might work if given a chance. My honest unbiased answer would probably have to be a weak autoaim of some sort with certain weapons having it disabled entirely. Blops3 did this with the sniper rifles to minimize quickscoping viability and had very good results. Titanfall movement can get just as fast as Quake at times and aiming is still viable on a controller. I believe only a few weapons would need any form of real autoaim anyway. You wouldn't want autoaim for projectiles due to their utility of splash damage and opponent pushing or area denial. Single point hitscan weapons could be non autoaim as well due to their sniper/rail/shaft capability ala Blops3. What does that leave? Shotguns and a few machinegun like weapons? A melee gauntlet? I think it could work extremely well after a given adjustment period. All that aside, if the movement speeds really were a problem due to aiming mechanics you could easily artificially limit the speed of the players in the game by a small percentage to decrease the skillgap. Just cap movement speed at a hard ceiling. Unless you were playing the same game back to back on different platforms, it would be hard to notice. However, keeping Titanfall in mind, I don't think it would be needed.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:47
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Twerk from Home posted:I was looking around recently and fans have ported Quake to iOS, I have no idea why Bethesda hasn’t. Modern console ports would be trivial, I actually bet one could get it running in a couple weekends on a Bone if you start with a modern source port and bring in the already developed game pad controls from the iOS port. Any XBox one can be a developer kit, so you can run code that you compile on it. Also its me. Im the guy who rebought q3....on 360.... l33tfuzzbox fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 01:07
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I'm with Stux on this. Quake Champions is an FPS where a the array of options and techniques available to a decent PC player would give them a tremendous advantage over a pad player and require significant handicapping to hope to keep them on par which kind of goes against the whole "this is a super high skill ceiling FPS"
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Apr 11, 2020 01:49
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Was the discussion on crossplay or just bringing the game to the console? If it was the former I misread the discussion completely. Yeah I'm in no way advocating for forcing console players to play against PC players. An option to enable maybe, but anything less wouldn't be viable or fair. EDIT: Actually I was originally only arguing that console players would be able to strafe jump. tjones fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 01:52
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tjones posted:I'll leave movement on the table since it appears we disagree on that front. i dont think anything but 3 is viable, 2 is absolutely not because then you delete lg and rail. however i feel that without any aim assist it will only exacerbate tracking issues. i dont think siege or cod are particularly relevant due to the vast difference in gameplay. i agree that autoaim disabled is fine for console fps, as i said before i play overwatch that way on console with no issues. but none of these games hit quake speeds. i mean... the lightning gun? one of the main 3? that would benefit extraordinarily well from aim assist while also being the biggest casualty of removing it. its the quake gun that mouse users have the most difficulty being effective with and the ability to track well with one is what seperates a lot of good players from excellent players. it would be a nightmare to balance correctly for pad use. if you have aim assist you better make sure its not so sticky everyone can just lg people down perfectly. if you have no aim assist you are basically removing that weapon. even the literal pro players are going to have huge issues with effective lg contact time and would probably end up on shotguns for close range hitscan instead. again, mouse users, even pro mouse players, struggle with lg accuracy. the problem with artifically limiting player speeds is, the game already does. per character. its one of the main balancing points for the game. if the light characters cant go fast they are completely useless. the entire game balance is literally centered on movement. strafe jumping is universal but the raw cap is higher or lower for different characters and balanced with hp/armor pools. theres also the issue of character specific movement traits. most light characters would be heavily impacted but slash wouldnt, because she has quake 4 movement tech with a slide and can hit 720ups just by crouch sliding and turning, something that would be very easy to do on pad, and with her active ability she hits 900 ups for a short while. how do you deal with that both on the side of the player and other people? if you cap her out or remove her slide shes worthless. solaag and anarki use cpm movement with no w key, how does that work on pad with analog movement input? all characters can rocket jump obviously, and maps are designed around it, however fast flicks are probably out of the question for pad, so what do you do about ranger who has a heavy reduction to self damage and is reliant on rocket jumping to be relevant? you say titanfall is fine but its simply not as fast and it doesnt have these issues because it is first and foremost designed for play on a controller. quake isnt, and champions with its class system is designed entirely around movement speed and tech. to rework it for console would be to make an entirely different game and i dont think thats anything they would ever want to do even if the game wasnt dead.
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Apr 11, 2020 01:56
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im talking purely console no cross play
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Apr 11, 2020 01:56
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Unreal Championship, the sequel in particular, was an attempt to translate the gameplay for unreal to consoles and wasnt bad. I dont think you can really get the same feel of Quake Champions on console as PC if ported 1:1, but at the same time both consoles support keyboard mouse now so they could always port it and only enable cross play if you plug in a mouse and keyboard. Or just not because I dont think its a big moneymaker game.
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Apr 11, 2020 02:24
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Not that the average console player would be this clean, and from what I've been told he had some finely tweaked input settings to remove DZ's, but I'll leave these videos of Gen1us who played in live LAN tournaments including ESWC Quake Champions and used a controller on PC against M&K/B players: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdbh8ggQti8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwj3YEFE1xQ I have no doubts controller play would be fine for quake like arena shooters on console. Barudak posted:at the same time both consoles support keyboard mouse now so they could always port it and only enable cross play if you plug in a mouse and keyboard. Forgot about this. You'd definitely need to have two different queue buckets but M&K/B support is only going to get bigger for consoles now that games are seemly supporting it more than in the past.
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Apr 11, 2020 03:09
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you understand that that is literally someone from possibly the smallest percentage of players ever. look how insanely high his sens is like i mentioned. most people cannot handle high sens on a pad, hes clearly running extreme sensitivity. those videos are of someone who is possibly 0.001% of the population and should not be taken as representative of anything. the videos are so exceptional specifically because what he is achieving on controller is completely beyond what most people can do. if anything this only highlights it even more. check out his hands on the QC vid and look at the strain he has to play under. i feel like its also a bit cheaty to say he played in live LAN tournaments when in ESWC he came, obviously, dead last. either way though its insane to try and say this is proof it would be at all achievable, he had to remove deadzones entirely and is using an extreme amount of hand dexterity to play at a relatively average level. for the average controller player to handle those mechanics is asking a lot. i dont feel like i would be able to personally, and i consider myself very good on a controller. edit: also again for clarification, im not talking cross player, purely for controller players only.
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Apr 11, 2020 03:23
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Stux posted:you understand that that is literally someone from possibly the smallest percentage of players ever. look how insanely high his sens is like i mentioned. most people cannot handle high sens on a pad, hes clearly running extreme sensitivity. those videos are of someone who is possibly 0.001% of the population and should not be taken as representative of anything. the videos are so exceptional specifically because what he is achieving on controller is completely beyond what most people can do. if anything this only highlights it even more. check out his hands on the QC vid and look at the strain he has to play under. You're moving the goal posts. Your argument of players not living up to the standard of high level PC play as a reason for not bringing a game to console is handwaving the fact that a controller player could easily have fun playing against other controllers. I see this as a non-issue. And I still think you are downplaying the ability of your average controller user anyway. No one here is arguing that top level controller players are going to be as good as top level PC players. My argument is that its entirely possible to have fun playing these games, even at a lower capacity. I'm also arguing that it is entirely possible that high level like play can be achieved on a controller, which it can. The videos were in response to your statement that it would be impossible to move and aim in a way that was relatable to PC in order to derive enjoyment from the game, which is clearly wrong. And live LAN was just to prove he's not somehow cheating his inputs, which has been brought up in the past from discussions just like the one we are having now. Regardless of where he placed, and impressive as it is, it proves that its possible. Also the reason he had to remove/gently caress with the dead zones is because the game wasn't taking into consideration controller input. AFAIK, he ran some middlewear through xinput in order to mimic a mouse. I'm not sure what all he uses for Champions, or if Champions even supports controller out of the box. We've been at this controller thing long enough that I feel developers have a handle on what needs to be implemented in order to refactor input API in order for it to feel second nature on a controller anyway. IMO, COD nailed it right from the start. All games should just copy it to be honest. Either way, I think it's apparent that the majority of players won't be like him. I already stated something similar in a prior post. This is true for every game and the players at its skill ceiling. The same contrast of extremely skilled players vs newbies occured whenTitanfall2 originally released. People who liked the game got better and evened the playing field. I'm sure you've played non SBMM CODs around Christmas. Controllers would be just fine. I'm also gonna stop this derail now. Good talk, see you out there. EDIT: One last point: You mention hand dexterity. I should probably clarify that I'm speaking on the terms of a controller having paddles. It is something I don't think about because I've owned a controller with them for so long, but you'd definitely want paddles in order to jump and look at the same time. My movement in COD today is not too different than the movement it would take to maintain a strafe jump. Slide cancelling is prevalent in MW and with that you're constantly performing 3-4 actions simultaneously while also looking/aiming/shooting if needed. Most people have controllers with paddles now, and the ones that don't are not going to be the ones to really care how fast someone can rotate from mega to ra. tjones fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 04:07
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This kinda reminds me of those show-offs playing Guitar Hero songs on hardest difficulty with their backs to the TV lol. Taking muscle memory to the extreme.
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Apr 11, 2020 04:27
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tjones posted:You're moving the goal posts. Your argument of players not living up to the standard of high level PC play as a reason for not bringing a game to console is handwaving the fact that a controller player could easily have fun playing against other controllers. I see this as a non-issue. And I still think you are downplaying the ability of your average controller user anyway. im not moving the goalposts, im responding directly to you posting a video of gen1us. i never said or intimated anyone was making the argument that top pad players would be close to top mouse players, i only responded to that point because you specifically brought up that he had played at LAN tournaments. i also never said it was impossible, just that it would be very very difficult and demanding. this is extremely disingenuous. as for why you brought up gen1us theres two reasons, i assume. one is because he is the single notable pad player of quake and everyone brings him up. the second im not exactly sure and i dont want to put words in your mouth or misrepresent why, but i had to assume you brought him up to prove some point regarding the technical ability of a controller player to potentially translate quake movement tech to a pad. but as an example for this it fails in being saliant to the discussion, because he is an extreme exception. again, i am not saying people are arguing a top level pad player will be as good as top level mouse players, however you are, by using this example, explicitly arguing that the achievements of what is absolutely a top level pad player some how has bearing or relatability to average players in an extremely mechanically demanding game, and i was simply responding to that. what ive been saying is two things: one is that the movement tech in quake is very difficult to translate well to controller inputs. in fact this entire discussion started by me pointing out doom eternal has translated many quake mainstays to much more easily accessible forms, which is part of the reason the game is so playable despite having great mobility, including on controller. however the specific implementation of movement tech in quake, and by that i mean the mechanical movements required, is extremely demanding. i made reference again to the videos you posted of QC played on pad with the players hands visible to stress this point: you can physically see the amount of strain on his hands required to pull it off. its clearly physically demanding and requring a ridiculous level of dexterity. i also said wrt to movement that the absolute speed of quake is potentially too high for pad, which you conceded by mentioning limiting top speeds, which leads into my point with movement tech which you havnt addressed at any point when its been brought up: in quake champions specifically, the way the game works and is balanced is around these mechanics. champions are balanced based on mechanically demanding movement tech. everyone can strafe jump, but lighter characters who have less hp and armor can accelerate much easier and often have abilities based around it. alongside this lots of champions have secondary movement tech. some of it is reliant on difficult mechanics like rocket jump flicking. some of it is much easier to execute. the big one i mentioned before is slash and her q4 slide and ability. she can quite easily hit 900ups and this would be very easy to do on a pad. how do you balance that if you assume most players wont even be attempting strafe jumping? how do you balance the larger characters with more hp and often more lethal skills if the smaller ones are not able to utilise the exact thing which creates balance currently. you said you havnt played qc and i feel like that might be why this is such an issue, because you dont understand that qc is balanced around this. q3 you can throw on the dreamcast and as long as you dont throw them in with the pc players (lol) people are probably going to have fun because there is no requirement to do this stuff because youre probably not meeting many people doing it. qc is a class shooter with the balance being extremely reliant on movement tech which is what is the issue here. when i say you would need to balance it and probably end up with a different game it wasnt a joke. the other thing i was saying is that at quake speeds, tracking on pad is extraordinarily difficult. qc cap is 2000ups. gen1us is playing with a visibily high sensitivity out of requirement from playing with pc players who can strafe jump around. in qc some champions can get extremely fast without strafe jumping and would require the same extreme sens to make them trackable even if youre assuming the more mechanically demanding movement tech isnt being commonly utilised. and again you can say to limit this, but it flows back into the balance issue and becomes a very large game design problem to solve, and you probably end up with something very different to the pc qc with much lower move speed overall. and also... limiting speeds because a controller cant track it is part of my point to begin with. im sure you could take qc and fit it into console. however the game would look and play differently and it wouldnt be as fast. that was my point and has always been my point. it would not be able to assume pad players can just track someone going 900ups from a simple slide turn. it would not be able to have balance based around the assumption that all players will rocket jump and so its fine that using the grappling hook character lets you hit 1k ups and fly around the map by pressing the grappling hook. edit: his deadzones being tiny/nonexistant is almost certainly to facillitate strafe jumping and lg tracking. its not an issue to ensure proper deadzones even if youre remapping a controller to a game without pad support. its a purposeful decision. Stux fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 05:18
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controllers with paddles are for cowards
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Apr 11, 2020 05:21
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Can someone make a TLDR of this debate? I don't have four hours to read these posts. I'm still trying to beat the first level of Doom Eternal on my lovely pleb controller.
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Apr 11, 2020 05:23
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