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chglcu posted:Yeah, no satellite coverage would make things difficult. I always get that sorted for at least a few sectors as early as possible. Thanks! I really only have satellite coverage in the sector the station is in. I'll deploy some more.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:10
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You can also find a builder in most systems with a shipyard/wharf. Builders should be easy to find just by flying to the closest one. Jut don't repeat my mistake of hiring a HOP builder and wondering why it won't arrive deep in Argon space…
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Apr 9, 2020 15:38
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:nowhere near fast enough to operate nividium miners steadily I wonder if it's a mod, I didn't think any of the ones I was using made them dispose of it faster but I could be wrong? They do fill up sometimes but between the three systems I've been making a steady profit from it.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:40
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Antigravitas posted:You can also find a builder in most systems with a shipyard/wharf. Builders should be easy to find just by flying to the closest one. I did that once and it still finished a station in argon prime while getting plinked at by fighter squads the entire time.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:45
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Anyone know if the money crystals spawn on mineable asteroids or only on the empty ones? Edit: Found some, so yes. Taerkar fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Apr 10, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 21:30
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Did the explore command break for anyone else in 31.? all my scout ships just fly a few meters back and forth, the only way to reveal systems is for me to plot a bunch of fly to commands which is terrible.
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Apr 10, 2020 16:51
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Yeah there's a bug in 3.1 it seems that buggers the explore command and also makes map squares not reveal when you go over them.
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Apr 10, 2020 17:02
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I just dipped my toes back into the game last night for the first time since launch and the explore command was bugged for me too. Unrelated, what's the recommended way to get started building up a station for passive income? I've got the process of mine crystals -> set up nvidium sector miners down pat, but an L miner fills up a given trade station basically immediately. I think I read that hull parts are lucrative due to their short supply and key place in ship building. Do I basically just set down a factory for those and progressively fill in production modules for the inputs until I'm supplying all my own raw materials? Relatedly, is there anything really important to know in terms of station design and fine tuning things for best results? Or is it pretty intuitive and straightforward once you start plonking modules down and browsing the menu options?
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Apr 10, 2020 17:06
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timn posted:I just dipped my toes back into the game last night for the first time since launch and the explore command was bugged for me too. An L miner will fill it up fast yes but for nividium what you want to do IMO is sprinkle M miners around the place. You can put one in any sector with a trade station (except the paranid ones cos they don't buy nividium) and they'll slowly fill it up, each delivery should give you about the cost of the miner back. Hull parts are an absolutely great ware cos they're needed for all ship and station building and some production processes, and their chain is very simple, though there's a teladi specific variant that uses teladianium rather than refined metal so make sure not to mix the two up. If you've done the HQ plot you can bolt modules onto it, but otherwise yeah, just plop a factory down and start building up. Grand exchange makes a good location cos it has all the materials nearby and is in the middle of the map so with a high level manager it can reach all the shipyards except the split. You can approach building towards it from either direction, either start with hull part modules (which are quite expensive, mind, even just the blueprint will cost you a few mil) or start from the other end with a metal refinery, which you can dump ore into from mining ships and it'll output it into refined metal. Hull parts need refined metal and graphene (which is made from methane gas) but they use very small amounts of graphene so you can either buy it in or bolt a graphene refinery on and give it an M gas miner and that'll run like 15 or so hull part modules. The stations are fairly intuitive, it will tell you how much you're using and how much you're producing of all the stuff so you can get an idea how to balance your module numbers, it's about 1:2 metal refineries to hull part modules an 1:15 graphene to hull parts so 1 graphene, 7 refineries, 15 hull parts will give you a station that just needs a shitload of ore shovelling in one end (and a bit of methane) and will crap out hull parts at the other end. Oh and your stations need energy, but you can just keep bolting on solar panels to supply that yourself, they don't need any inputs they just make cells. I think that since the 3.0 update ecells might actually be a decent early money source cos they need no inputs and people seem to be buying them, but they're not worth a lot so it's slow money. But you'll need them yourself anyway so they're not a bad idea for a first station module. Remember also to put docks on the station or it won't be able to trade, you need M/S docks for small craft and the big docking booms for large ships. If you don't have a docking boom you can't use an L miner to supply it so bear that in mind. Stations can also have workforce, which is basically crew who live in habitat modules, they increase the overall productivity of all your other modules but they need a steady supply of race-specific food and generic medical supplies, so decide what kind of crew you want and build a food/medicine factory for them. The decision is largely down to whether you want to buy the food locally or produce it yourself and also what kind of habitat you want, they're all different. I used teladi last time but this time I'm going for Argon cos they stack on top of each other like space skyscrapers. You can mix and match too but it's easier to only supply one kind of food. Your stations don't need workforce to run, but they're a good idea later on when you can afford it.
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Apr 10, 2020 17:21
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http://www.x4-game.com/#/station-calculator is useful for determining station resource needs and how many of each module you'll want and such. Edit: Also, speaking of stations, is there any way to get the expected operating costs to be accurate? I've got an entirely self-sufficient hull parts factory with manually set buy and sell limits. All resources are above the buy level and drones are fully stocked, but the administrator still wants 25 million credits. chglcu fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Apr 10, 2020 |
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Apr 10, 2020 17:38
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Or yeah that, personally I don't use it since the logical overview will show any over/under supply issues and you can always set it up to sell off overstocks of intermediate products (and you might want to do that anyway because that way you're not saturating the market with your end products) but yeah there's calculators for all the X games. TBH though I think they were more important for X3 where you had fixed raw material inputs, mines attached to rocks and they had specific yields that could not be increased so you wanted to be very sure how much you could produce from one, whereas with ships doing the mining now, it's much more variable owing to different times for them to complete their runs and you can always add more of them. chglcu posted:http://www.x4-game.com/#/station-calculator is useful for determining station resource needs and how many of each module you'll want and such. No, the budget is based on how many inputs you have, basically the station goes "what if I suddenly needed to buy all my inputs at once for a few hours" and then sets the budget accordingly. Even if you've never done that and the station feeds itself. Just ignore it, though it's still annoying I agree.
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Apr 10, 2020 17:43
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OwlFancier posted:No, the budget is based on how many inputs you have, basically the station goes "what if I suddenly needed to buy all my inputs at once for a few hours" and then sets the budget accordingly. Even if you've never done that and the station feeds itself. Just ignore it, though it's still annoying I agree. Figured that was probably the case. Mostly annoying me because the auto surplus transfer seems to be some multiple of that budget, so I'm having to manually transfer credits out when I want them. Guess there's probably a mod to deal with that though.
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Apr 10, 2020 17:56
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah there's a bug in 3.1 it seems that buggers the explore command and also makes map squares not reveal when you go over them. I was wondering what the hell was happening. Also for making money I've been starting with one of the Argon M-sized freighters (Idriss?) and rolling around with them. They have two turrets on the sides and are fast enough that they rarely have any issue with pirates (Make sure their default reaction is escape) and if the pilot isn't skilled enough you can use the trade filter on the map to find some good runs. Just filter for specific products and queue up a number of trades to make the $$$. I've had good luck with Teliadianium(?) and occasionally microchips and advanced electronics, though your numbers will likely vary due to how the economy plays out and the various ongoing conflicts. A decent "plop one down and forget about it" option is a Drill (mineral) mining silicon in Argon Prime. There's a silicon refinery there that'll reliably pay ~145k per Drill run and its a rather safe sector. Taerkar fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Apr 10, 2020 |
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Apr 10, 2020 18:33
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chglcu posted:Figured that was probably the case. Mostly annoying me because the auto surplus transfer seems to be some multiple of that budget, so I'm having to manually transfer credits out when I want them. Guess there's probably a mod to deal with that though. It is really annoying yeah that you can't just manually set its budget and auto transfer cash out. There might be a mod for it but I don't know. Taerkar posted:I was wondering what the hell was happening. Yeah you can make money trading, I just find it boring  But if you want you can definitely do stuff like selling space drugs in your personal ship, or high value stuff like claytronics though those only sell to stations under construction afaik and I don't know how they calculate markups cos they're not normal consumers, might be hard to turn a good profit per unit. I definitely recommend miners for money making though cos they work almost everywhere and as you note they can often be quite safe, as well as them being immediately transferrable to your own stations once you set them up.
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Apr 10, 2020 19:29
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FWIW, unless you need that cash now, you can extract more money from Nvidium by fulfilling the order in one big chunk at maximum price. L Silicon miners can get some good money flowing too. I have one in Second Contact XI that always sells its entire hold at 150/u, a cool 600k per run without having to leave the sector. Their efficiency tanks if they have to take a gate though. Generally, L traders and miners are rarely worth it mostly due to all the highways making M ships so much faster. Question to the thread: how do I kill a Xenon I? I have a destroyer now, but it eats too many hits even when attacking from above. I was thinking of using 20 Nova Sentinel with plasma cannons, but it's quite the investment. I have already dealt with all the Ks and Ps and whatnot.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:38
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How's x4 doing these days? My disappointment with ED and fdev is immeasurable so I'm willing to do anything. I've played x3 years and years ago and bounced off relatively quick because it was a little too much Eve I guess.
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Apr 11, 2020 02:01
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I've been having a lot of fun with it since the expansion, it's been getting better with the 3.0 update, it's got some fun mods for it, and the split sectors add good content. I think at this point it might be my favourite X game, it's still well behind X3 in content but it's getting closer, and the QoL improvments to the interface and the graphical updates really really help.
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Apr 11, 2020 02:08
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Being single-player Eve is basically X’s entire thing.
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Apr 11, 2020 02:08
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Antigravitas posted:FWIW, unless you need that cash now, you can extract more money from Nvidium by fulfilling the order in one big chunk at maximum price. L miners I think are definitely worth it because all miners spend a lot of time flying out through space to get rocks, and you can place stations in the same sectors as the rocks, so the fewer trips you need to do, the better. L traders less so because you don't produce things in huge batch lots, so they tend to get snapped up by M traders really quickly. And yes, they're slower and traders use the highways more. How to kill an I, well that's a difficult one cos I's are bullshit. They're basically a xenon battleship and I have no idea how you could kill one without getting yourself shot to hell. Kite one at maximum range with L turrets modded to extend their range as far as possible, I guess. But even then you're gonna struggle. Otherwise you're likely gonna have to take losses. VRO gives you more heavy long range anti-capital options but the xenon get them too, so they're still genuinely terrifying ships. chglcu posted:Being single-player Eve is basically X’s entire thing. Also yeah I've never played EvE but there's a big empire management thing in X. But I will say the improvemnts to running it in X4 make it vastly more enjoyable, you spend a lot more time designing neat looking stations and a lot less time fiddling with spreadsheets. And the spreadsheet fiddling you do do if you want to is way better than it was in X3. I don't know if I can ever just recommend an X game cos they're so dependent on you wanting a specific kind of game, but if you're going to get an X game, I'd probably recommend X4. This last update/expansion really feel like they've made the game come together for me. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 02:12
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chglcu posted:Being single-player Eve is basically X’s entire thing. If you want single player EVE Astrox Imperium looks like basically a single player clone.
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Apr 11, 2020 02:23
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Some of the new sectors are metal as poo poo too. I think this one actually blows off a big chunk of corona every so often, there's a bunch of background detail, there's one that's situated inside a meteor shower too. Feel like I'm staring up satan's rear end in a top hat. E: Holy poo poo yeah the whole star like blows up and collapses and lets out a huge flash of red light across the sector:      
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 02:32
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Things I miss from X:Rebirth: The awesome capital ship designs and the crazy visuals. Have a sector extremely close to the sun. Why the gently caress not. Have a sector full of gigantic clouds of mines. Just billions of the things, a nebula of mines. How they managed that without my PC melting to slag I don't know, but they did it. Also, I'd sacrifice a newborn to get E:D's flight model and sounds in X4. I don't care for the rest. I'm going to see how an I likes a giant fighter swarm. Let's see how it goes.
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Apr 11, 2020 08:24
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Not sure if it was already mentioned but the distance your miners and traders travel from your stations depends on their piloting skill or the management skill of the station manger, whichever is higher. It's a good idea to check the trade guild missions you get in each sector while traveling. I had a 4 step mission that rewarded a management book for 2 stars on each step and a 3 star for the last step. Most are satellite/resource probe deployment and the occasional "rescue ship from minefield" missions. It's a lot faster to pump your station manager up to 4 stars instead of gathering the pilot books for all the assigned ships. The one or two extra jumps coupled with a good satellite network make a gigantic difference in how effective your station operates. Someone was also looking at the script that manages experience gain for miners and they get less xp the more they mine. Right now the fastest way to gain xp would be to mine one unit and deliver it. A dev already said that it's gonna be fixed so don't expect your miners to level up in the next 100-200 hours of gametime.
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Apr 11, 2020 08:59
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Had one hell of a bug: a ship I was on entered an accelerator, and we ended up getting dumped about 80 000 km outside the hex. Fortunately it didn't mess with teleporter range, but that ship is now basically USS Voyager trying to get back home. What's bizarre is that it keeps passing clusters of AI ships battling Xenon.
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Apr 11, 2020 10:12
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Drunk in Space posted:Had one hell of a bug: a ship I was on entered an accelerator, and we ended up getting dumped about 80 000 km outside the hex. Fortunately it didn't mess with teleporter range, but that ship is now basically USS Voyager trying to get back home. What's bizarre is that it keeps passing clusters of AI ships battling Xenon. The game spawns (or teleports, not sure) stuff to your reality bubble when you are far away from the rest of civilization to keep things interesting.
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Apr 11, 2020 10:15
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660 hours in X4 and I still can't believe that parking a fighter on the deck of a carrier allows the fighter's pilot to still shoot enemies. It's either an overlooked bug or an obvious feature missing from space sims for years.
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Apr 11, 2020 12:30
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Xenon I update: I did hit and runs on its escorts of Ks and Ps until they were gone, then lured it to a defense platform and when it engaged I told my wing of 30 Nova Sentinel with plasma cannons to engage. Didn't lose a single ship. Nice.
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Apr 11, 2020 12:32
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Drunk in Space posted:Had one hell of a bug: a ship I was on entered an accelerator, and we ended up getting dumped about 80 000 km outside the hex. Fortunately it didn't mess with teleporter range, but that ship is now basically USS Voyager trying to get back home. What's bizarre is that it keeps passing clusters of AI ships battling Xenon. There's a fairly reproducable physics problem leftover since like 1.0 where you can surf off the end of an accelerator lane at a right angle from your current forward axis (helps to have a joystick) and jack your ship off like 1000KM+. Maybe you just got a really bad case.
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Apr 11, 2020 12:34
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PoopinClumpin posted:There's a fairly reproducable physics problem leftover since like 1.0 where you can surf off the end of an accelerator lane at a right angle from your current forward axis (helps to have a joystick) and jack your ship off like 1000KM+. Maybe you just got a really bad case. I wasn't really paying attention to what happened exactly, to be honest: I was too busy giving orders to stuff elsewhere when I realized that it sounded like I'd been traveling for a while without passing through any gate, and that's when I had a look and I noticed I'd been catapulted off the map. You may be right, though, because leading away from the accelerator there was a line of explored patches of space that must of been the direction my ship was hurled down, kind of like a skipping stone. Drunk in Space fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 12:55
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Drunk in Space posted:I wasn't really paying attention to what happened exactly, to be honest: I was too busy giving orders to stuff elsewhere when I realized that it sounded like I'd been traveling for a while without passing through any gate, and that's when I had a look and I noticed I'd been catapulted off the map. You may be right, though, because leading away from the accelerator there was a line of explored patches of space that must of been the direction my ship was hurled down, kind of like a skipping stone. That's exactly what happens, you see normally from cockpit view, then you spin left or right 90 degrees, and where you expected to just transition to normal flight controls you're suddenly flying away with no control until after everything catches up; you're so far away that you need to get a sandwich or teleport.
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Apr 11, 2020 14:46
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I've got a question about turrets. I keep seeing online that Paranid turrets are best because they turn the fastest. However when I look at the encyclopedia, they seem to have the slowest listed turning speed. A PAR M beam turret has a listed rotation speed of 60*/s, while the Argon equivalent is 120*/s. A PAR M pulse turret has a listed rotation speed of 104*/s, while the Argon equivalent is 209*/s. Is the encyclopedia wrong, or is the internet consensus just way off base?
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Apr 11, 2020 15:13
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Argon have the best tracking. I guess someone mixed them up.
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Apr 11, 2020 15:52
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PoopinClumpin posted:660 hours in X4 and I still can't believe that parking a fighter on the deck of a carrier allows the fighter's pilot to still shoot enemies. It's either an overlooked bug or an obvious feature missing from space sims for years. Try parking a frigate with a fighter on it on a carrier. The frigate turrets still work just fine
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Apr 11, 2020 16:38
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Not really sure if I want to play any more until they fix some of the issues from 3.1. And I just recovered the Odysseus.
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Apr 11, 2020 17:14
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OwlFancier posted:Try parking a frigate with a fighter on it on a carrier. The frigate turrets still work just fine Cannot afford matryoshka fighters. Edit: can I pay for them with coinz, skrill, flooz, ibeenz, bitcoins or starcitizenbux? otherwise I'm gonna need to use a X4: Bath n Beyond gift card PoopinClumpin fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 17:44
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Caved, decided lockdown was the time to get back into german space capitalism simulator. First impression as I'm downloading is that I'm shocked the game is only 13GB. A fair bit of it must be down to the game being essentially the same one that's been made for literally 20 years, but there's something pleasing about the evident lack of bloat.
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Apr 11, 2020 19:35
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Actually I think they built from the ground up with Rebirth and this is based on that. The main thing is that because it's a space game there's very little geometry (and therefore texturing) involved, the skyboxes are very simple scenes with planets and single large objects dominating most of them, and they rely on layered composition and lighting to generate most of the detail and interest. Space games in general are (or should be) incredibly good performance wise because it's literally objects floating in a void. X4 chugs mostly cos of the massive simulation aspect and also because it has extremely dense (albeit instanced) geometry up close. But that still cuts down on the file sizes because stations are all built of the same prefab modules.
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Apr 11, 2020 19:51
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And you know, a dozen people made this. Even with some outsourced art, they just can't produce that much. Most of the file size in games comes from textures and sounds. And yes, they ditched almost everything with Rebirth. For some insane reason they kept the scripting language though. I get that people are familiar with it already but I hate the language. I guess the language is integral to the way they manage to simulate so many agents at once, but it's so hard to use…
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Apr 11, 2020 22:06
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What bothers me the most about Bernd and co is that there is poo poo tons of people who care nothing about personal profit (including myself) who are at least capable in 3d modeling and texturing and have been hanging around for years just waiting to contribute, and they still seem to do everything they can to prevent the guy who plays the game to simply make it the way they want. I just don't understand this point of view. At first I thought it was a limitation of the engine. But this is 2020 and lol Python is the goto language at GOOGLE, your overlord. So that should tell you how little "interpretation" matters in the modern "performance" context. I say this because circa x2 the complaint was that systems weren't parellelized enough to handle so many AI threads. Now it seems the complaint is there's so many AI threads to handle that you need a 16 core fictional i12 or else you're just not able to handle the game. OK Bernd what is it, are modern multiproc chips just not able to handle your sector physics or are you guys just fighting to create a UI capable of translating a universe-wide information context to the player? edit: zee mouse can be used mit zee game, was a funny joke in 2001. This is 2020. edit@ antigravitas As far as I know they've finally capitulated to the python control structures and keywords, that's at least a step in the right direction. And a good trigger lock for any potential zakalwe's PoopinClumpin fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 23:08
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Drunk in Space posted:Had one hell of a bug: a ship I was on entered an accelerator, and we ended up getting dumped about 80 000 km outside the hex. Fortunately it didn't mess with teleporter range, but that ship is now basically USS Voyager trying to get back home. What's bizarre is that it keeps passing clusters of AI ships battling Xenon. I seem to hit this more often when the game’s been running a long time in sectors near the edges of the map, like the split sectors in the northwest. jumping through the gate seems to put me in a random spot nowhere near the gate. it’s not the same thing as when travel mode doesn’t cut off. it’s just instantaneously in the wrong place.
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Apr 12, 2020 00:05
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