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CmdrKing posted:Mostly I remember Angelica's physical affection towards Towa seeming to be played as "uncomfortable" rather than "welcome". Realistically the issue is Angelica is just the lesbian version of overt pervert characters (more akin to, say, FFIX's Zidane or Lorenz in FE Three Houses than any Trails characters) and I don't think that really makes the trope any more palatable (despite, sure, that sort of person being a sometimes-welcome feature in lesbian-specific spaces). When she said she liked a woman I was shocked because you see gay stuff in JRPGS so rarely. Then I realised she was super creepy with it. I guess that's better than her just being a strange kinda joke like camp men often are in JRPGs?
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Apr 11, 2020 14:14
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tbh you see gay stuff in jrpgs a decent bit if you play actually good ones and idk, im not saying everyone has to feel the exact same way i feel but im Literally A Lesbian and i loving adore angie. like I can see why there's angles some people wouldn't like but I don't think she ever really crosses a line beyond 'moderately weird flirting' so acting like it's just read that she's a literal sexual predator or is 'insanely loving creepy' feels off to me.
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Apr 11, 2020 14:23
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Endorph posted:tbh you see gay stuff in jrpgs a decent bit if you play actually good ones But she hits on every single woman, all the time, constantly. How is that not creepy? I know they make a joke about it but a person who hits on the gender they're attracted to in any form as soon as they meet anyone new that is that gender is a bit...off.
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Apr 11, 2020 14:39
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Angie basically exists in that grey zone where she brushes up against the line, so whether you feel she actually crosses it depends more on what your own experiences are rather than the actual text of the thing. Of course, this is also a series with Shirley "actual sex offender" Orlando and Mariabell "wait is she killing people just to get to Elie" Crois, so I'm not sure Falcom knows how to both acknowledge someone is definitely a lesbian while not also falling into questionable tropes. Although if you don't think Anelace is a lesbian I'm not sure what to do with that. Give Anelace a girlfiend in the Calvard arc dangit.
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Apr 11, 2020 14:51
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CmdrKing posted:Mostly I remember Angelica's physical affection towards Towa seeming to be played as "uncomfortable" rather than "welcome". Realistically the issue is Angelica is just the lesbian version of overt pervert characters (more akin to, say, FFIX's Zidane or Lorenz in FE Three Houses than any Trails characters) and I don't think that really makes the trope any more palatable (despite, sure, that sort of person being a sometimes-welcome feature in lesbian-specific spaces). Sometimes I feel like the writers mindset is "No one should complain if the person playing grab-rear end with a woman is another woman, right?" which is missing the point that forcing yourself on others is bad, period - not funny. This is not to give any sort of pass on Gwyn telling his teenage granddaughter, in essence, "I like your bigger tits", as if that's the most important thing which needs to be said after being away for five years. Endorph posted:tbh you see gay stuff in jrpgs a decent bit if you play actually good ones Angie isn't too bad about that at least in the first two games, but the bit with the long ladder in the mine in CS 1 wasn't great. "Don't mind me, life-long friend who has clearly expressed a lack of interest in me, I'm just going to openly tell all your friends that I'm getting my jollies off by looking up your skirt." It's the lack of consideration. "I don't care if I'm making you uncomfortable, ha ha, I'm being funny so you can't get mad, because you'll seem like you're overreacting." (This also applies to Gwyn and his friends too.) ... I think I'm going to take a hard pass, sight-unseen, on the Calvard games. They'll be worse. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 14:57
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Another weird thing with Angie is that in Cold Steel 1 they imply that she has admirers around the school, but you don't meet any of them I don't think. The closest thing you can find is that she inspired Dorothy to chase her yaoi fangirl bliss.
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Apr 11, 2020 14:59
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Taear posted:But she hits on every single woman, all the time, constantly. How is that not creepy? again i think the shirley scene should have been walked back a step but my first thought was 'good for shirley' and my second thought was 'lol' so i dont think we're going to come to terms on this CmdrKing posted:Of course, this is also a series with Shirley "actual sex offender" Orlando and Mariabell "wait is she killing people just to get to Elie" Crois, so I'm not sure Falcom knows how to both acknowledge someone is definitely a lesbian while not also falling into questionable tropes. A Sinister Rap posted:Another weird thing with Angie is that in Cold Steel 1 they imply that she has admirers around the school, but you don't meet any of them I don't think. The closest thing you can find is that she inspired Dorothy to chase her yaoi fangirl bliss.
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Apr 11, 2020 15:00
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I'm suddenly reminded of this old discussion about Angie where someone theorized that despite her flirting with every girl in sight, she actually had a thing for George, given how much the two hung out alone in Thors' orbal factory. I'd go in more detail, but uh... spoilers for the second half of the arc.
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Apr 11, 2020 15:19
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Idkbutlike2 posted:I'm suddenly reminded of this old discussion about Angie where someone theorized that despite her flirting with every girl in sight, she actually had a thing for George, given how much the two hung out alone in Thors' orbal factory. I'd go in more detail, but uh... spoilers for the second half of the arc. I'd expect her to hang out with George in the Engineering clubhouse because he's in charge of maintenance on her bike. And they're friends! Hanging out with friends is a thing people do all the time.
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Apr 11, 2020 15:44
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Shoutout to the final chapter of CS3 where dialogue still can't help itself by having one character shout someone's name, and another immediately reminds the player who they are. Final chapter, loving this lack of faith in the player. "Patrick!" "The son of the Hyarms family?!" Thanks game, almost forgot.
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Apr 11, 2020 17:05
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Shinjobi posted:Shoutout to the final chapter of CS3 where dialogue still can't help itself by having one character shout someone's name, and another immediately reminds the player who they are. Final chapter, loving this lack of faith in the player. https://www.neogaf.com/threads/the-...#post-229215243 
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Apr 11, 2020 17:18
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I said it years ago but xseed removed a lot of the bullshit that made cold steel way better than it was.
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Apr 11, 2020 17:20
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Tae posted:I said it years ago but xseed removed a lot of the bullshit that made cold steel way better than it was. I have seen Cold Steel's true face now. I am sad.
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Apr 11, 2020 17:22
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwdiqZZzrS8&t=402s If you know your Japanese then you can easily tell how this second line from Sara was edited.
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Apr 11, 2020 17:25
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The number of "<insert name here>..." lines and giggles at the beginning of sentences in the Japanese scripts of Trails games is bonkers.
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Apr 11, 2020 17:43
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Repeating the subject is just a part of normal conversation in the japanese language. there's nothing particularly weird about it. Good translations get rid of most of them because that's not how english works.
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Apr 11, 2020 18:00
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This was years ago, before we got SC I think, but I somehow ended up in a discussion about Olivert's sexuality and I was attacked for having the audacity to suggest that Olivert likely just enjoys making people squirm rather than having actual intentions to get it on with everyone he flirts with. The games have since proven me correct so take that random mean person. I still think Nisa did good, its like a 8.5 to Xseeds 10. I did my part and messaged all the typo's I found to Nisa on facebook, so I hope that helped somehow even if I dont think I've seen an update.
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Apr 11, 2020 18:02
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Endorph posted:tbh you see gay stuff in jrpgs a decent bit if you play actually good ones We were just loving talking about the vents and ladder gags and Angie is literally the only character who attempts to take advantage of it. I also forgot Anelace existed and never saw a scene with Jessica at all. (The new, blue haired spear girl?) Veryslightlymad fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 18:40
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Imagine considering yourself a fan of these games and forgetting anelace
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Apr 11, 2020 19:08
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It's like reading the Bible and forgetting a lil character called God
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Apr 11, 2020 19:09
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spoilers: Anelace kills Osborne and the Grandmaster by throwing a teddy bear at them
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Apr 11, 2020 19:11
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Joshua sucks, the sexism in sky is worse, Angie rules, Karin Astray will be the grandmaster, duvallie is my gf, lecther is cool, anelace is cute, and I hope stabey the clown's posts make like a salt pillar
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Apr 11, 2020 19:20
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I have not been able to play it as much as I hoped to but Zero remains a very good experience so far
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Apr 11, 2020 20:14
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Regarding Angelica: I really liked her as a character in 1 and 2. In CS3 every single line of dialogue from her is just hitting on whichever woman is on screen at the moment, which quickly becomes as tiresome as everyone gushing about Rean all the time. I don't remember her being quite this bad about it in previous games, but I might have just forgotten.Endorph posted:I think they overplay the Rean harem stuff a bit but I'm fine with it conceptually because like, it's actually understandable why girls would like Rean, speaking as a girl. He's a handsome guy, he clearly cares about other people, he's relatively proactive, he actually has a sense of humor. He's more engaging than a lot of harem protagonists because he actually has some back and forth with people rather than just kinda blandly accepting it. Oh, I didn't mean to imply that Rean is not appealing, he certainly is. What bothers me is that he's the only man in Erebonia that anyone appears to be attracted to. There's plenty of other handsome/caring/cool/accomplished guys around Rean, but you don't see anyone talk about how they are crushing on Jusis, Kurt, Ash, Randy or really anyone else at all. The fact there aren't any relationships forming between any other characters makes the Rean focus feel extremely forced to me. I guess there is an implied Jusis/Millium pairing? But it's played off more as an Agate/Tita dynamic than actual romatic love. And it makes me wonder if it didn't only happen because Millium isn't one of Rean's love interests so she's free to be with someone else in the writer's minds. Shinjobi posted:I have seen Cold Steel's true face now. I am sad. 
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Apr 11, 2020 20:46
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I think CS2 is better paced despite an obvious "we must pad out this half finished game with CONTENT" fetch line with the 4 trials.
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Apr 11, 2020 20:51
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Amppelix posted:Repeating the subject is just a part of normal conversation in the japanese language. there's nothing particularly weird about it. Good translations get rid of most of them because that's not how english works. yeah its not that falcom are awful writers who xseed salvaged, its just that they actually localized the games incredibly well. XSeed's tl was concerned with 'how these characters would convey this information if they were speaking in English,' Nisa's is concerned with 'what the Japanese says.' It's not a bad translation but it's very obvious how the priorities shifted.
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Apr 11, 2020 21:21
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also why is some dude swearing at me for disagreeing mildly about my opinion on noted trails of cold steel character, angelica rogner, lol
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Apr 11, 2020 21:23
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CS2 is a lot easier to like if it's your second ever Trails title (after CS1) or if you've never played 3rd, Zero, or Ao like everyone else in the west circa late 2016. Otherwise, it's kind of a mess.
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Apr 11, 2020 21:26
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Idkbutlike2 posted:CS2 is a lot easier to like if it's your second ever Trails title (after CS1) or if you've never played 3rd, Zero, or Ao like everyone else in the west circa late 2016. Otherwise, it's kind of a mess.
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Apr 11, 2020 21:27
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Endorph posted:also why is some dude swearing at me for disagreeing mildly about my opinion on noted trails of cold steel character, angelica rogner, lol My sincere apologies. I swear continually, and none of it is meant to read as "at" you. EDIT Terper posted:This happened in CS1 and CS2 it's just they edited it out so the characters didn't sound silly. This.... doesn't sound unnatural? Especially since---Laura didn't have the vision and there's an exam question about multiple "ritter" groups in the world, which Rean technically could have gotten wrong on his exam. Laura asking if that's the one he meant actually makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, deleting the line does nothing either so I have no idea why the blue gently caress I'm even bothering to talk about it. I have a problem with pedantry. Veryslightlymad fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 21:29
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Ojetor posted:What bothers me is that he's the only man in Erebonia that anyone appears to be attracted to. There's plenty of other handsome/caring/cool/accomplished guys around Rean, but you don't see anyone talk about how they are crushing on Jusis, Kurt, Ash, Randy or really anyone else at all. Is this party characters only? Cooking class scene 1 is the girls discussing the guys at the school, with Kurt and Ash pretty high on people's lists. I'm in Crossbell right now and saw a couple of standing around girls discussing how hot they find Rufus. Does Patiry count as crushing on Machias, or am I reading too much into that one from CS2? And I'm pretty certain there was somebody swooning over Jusis in the first two games, but I wouldn't be able to point out who.
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Apr 11, 2020 21:43
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Ojetor posted:
Given your mentions of Kurt/Ash, the only ones applicable to this would be Juna/Altina/Musse, given all the old Class VII members have minimal interaction with them. And of those three, only Juna could reasonably be expected to have thoughts along those lines - Altina explicitly views herself almost soley as Rean's intelligence partner and spends most of the game simply learning to open up to others (and a lot of that is due to Juna), let alone having any romantic interests, and Musse has... reasons... as to why she has that focus. Juna? Yeah, Juna suffers from the setup, and keeping her out of the system would have been nice, but it's certainly not "every character." As for the old Class VII, there's definitely a point to be had, but it's still nowhere near as prevalent as most claim. Setting aside the Millium and Jusis connection (and lol at directly comparing it to Tita/Agate and stating it's not romantic - not that Millium/Jusis necessarily is, but that's a terrible comparison given where Falcom's blatantly taking Tita/Agate. If you wanted to make this kind of comparison, Tio and Randy is much better), there's no real reason to not think there's talk going on offscreen, that we just don't see due to the viewpoint character. And virtually none of them particularly express interest until going pretty far in their chain(the exception is... maybe Alfin?), which can very well be viewed as Rean going well beyond normal everyday interaction in the first place. And virtually all of them, of both genders, are dealing with huge issues far beyond most of their classmates which means they're not generally going looking for romantic interests in the first place - Rean's just incredibly nosy (as a result of his own issues) which leads to him potentially getting into entanglements. If you're somehow referring to "any Erebonian females who express romantic interest, period," then... what???? It's not like we have multiple NPC relationships moving forward in the CS series or anything that have no interest in Rean whatsoever - wait, we do. Alan and Bridget being the obvious one, but people like Neithardt and Fiona also exist. Plus whatever the hell you think the Vita and Crow relationship is (at the very least she's got no interest in Rean). Like, we've already had ludicrously overblown claims in the last few pages about how much worse CS is than any of the preceding titles, when Lloyd Bannings literally has the IN-GAME title of "Capture King" for how virtually any female just immediately starts crushing on him.
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Apr 11, 2020 21:49
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half of rean and randy's interactions are randy calling rean out for being as bad as lloyd, who only sweeps fewer people off their feet by virtue of crossbell having a smaller female cast around lloyd's age
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Apr 11, 2020 21:51
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To be fair, it would be nice to have stuff like Jusis and Millium or Machias and Emma followed up on a bit more. It doesn't have to be a whole thing, just some teasing about it in the same way there's teasing about other stuff. And iunno, let Elliot and Gaius makeout just so they have literally anything to do.
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Apr 11, 2020 21:51
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For real though the scene in early chapter 1 of Ao of Shirley groping Elie for an entire scene and it being played for laughs when Elie is clearly distressed was really uncomfortable.
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Apr 11, 2020 22:05
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sounds to me like despite its much-vaunted emphasis on writing the entire trails series is burdened by stylistic and technical cliches that go from rote to regressive and that was only alleviated by exceptionally talented localizers
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Apr 11, 2020 22:10
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Oxxidation posted:sounds to me like despite its much-vaunted emphasis on writing the entire trails series is burdened by stylistic and technical cliches that go from rote to regressive and that was only alleviated by exceptionally talented localizers Yeah that's more or less the long and short of it.
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Apr 11, 2020 22:14
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Typing a big ellipsis, right-wingishly
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Apr 11, 2020 22:17
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So, having finally beaten CS3 I am just beyond myself with my dislike for this game. Shucks, I wish I could buy into these stakes and consequences, but you decided to make it clear real early on that the dead aren't anymore. The whole game is "person who should be dead is not," from Crow, to Rutger Claussell, to Arianrhod, to Black Alberich, so that by the time we get to the end and people start dying I am just mildly annoyed. Even if the characters are dead, just find em a gaddang robot and plot will find a way to bring em back. Game was maybe a sliver better about "I'm just holding back" shenanigans, but still pretty bad. I'd say I'd like to see a massive body count in the 4th game, but I now know death is meaningless and the game doesn't find their antagonists as obnoxious and dumb as I do. The Ironbloods are probably the worst group in the entire game by a huge margin, and the amount of time wasted with Claire being split between her duty and her crush is just laughable. I am hella frustrated because I'm fine with the big revelations of the blaze plan, I still want to know why the heck Arianrhod thinks this is a cool idea, and I still seriously just want to stomp Osborne into goo. But goodness gracious some of these character motivations are rear end. "Rean please understand, I just wanna help demon hitler because he understood how garbo my family was and then he gave me a job!" God drat, seriously frustrated. Just give me the new Class 7, by themselves, systematically taking out every antagonist in cold blood in the next game.
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Apr 11, 2020 22:19
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Oxxidation posted:sounds to me like despite its much-vaunted emphasis on writing the entire trails series is burdened by stylistic and technical cliches that go from rote to regressive and that was only alleviated by exceptionally talented localizers
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Apr 11, 2020 22:20
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