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mind the walrus posted:Fleischer Superman is such a high bar to clear, but yeah there was at least one or two studios that consistently delivered garbage. I'm actually amazed when I see Millennials try to hold up the show as this timeless classic when even 5-10 years out Batman: The Animated Series looked only better well... relative to the average 70s/80s cartoon, like you said. Surely that's more about the writing and character work.
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Apr 14, 2020 01:26
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HopperUK posted:Surely that's more about the writing and character work. The music in the Batman and Superman cartoons was excellent. Justice League was worse and then JLU was a further downgrade. JL/JLU also relied more 3D/CG work and that's aged worse than the 2D stuff.
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Apr 14, 2020 01:42
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Push El Burrito posted:When Flash first met Supergirl he used his powers to get her ice cream and she acted like it was the greatest thing to ever happen to her and, honestly, yeah ice cream is pretty good. women just like being niced to. especially if it involves ice cream. my wife has a little happy dance any time i bring her the ice cream she bought with her money from the fridge she pays for, it's the weirdest cute thing ever.
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Apr 14, 2020 02:24
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Nobody ever brings me ice cream.  I would do a little dance!
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Apr 14, 2020 02:26
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Ice cream talk is making me want to pop over to Stewart’s for some rocky road.
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Apr 14, 2020 02:28
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Ice cream talk is making me want to pop over to Stewart’s for some rocky road. I wonder if they'll have any of that lactose-free mint chocolate or peanut butter chocolate ice cream when I hope on over for eggs.
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Apr 14, 2020 02:29
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:women just like being niced to. especially if it involves ice cream. my wife has a little happy dance any time i bring her the ice cream she bought with her money from the fridge she pays for, it's the weirdest cute thing ever. This. My wife is perfectly capable of going downstairs and getting ice cream, but she still likes it when I bring her ice cream.
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Apr 14, 2020 02:30
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HopperUK posted:Surely that's more about the writing and character work. Even then it's not quite as good as you might think, it was just ahead the curve. The writing is rarely very sophisticated, it just didn't wink at the audience nor make them feel remotely silly for taking fantasy nonsense seriously (note: this is also one reason a lot of people hated The Last Jedi, it didn't make them feel badass for liking Star Wars, it made them feel like they needed to grow up a bit... which they did and still do). Like Dini and Timm and their people had the prescience to hire Adam West and have him act as a pulp hero who inspired Bruce Wayne, but the actual plotting and writing in the episode is basic as gently caress and coasts almost entirely on premise. Most of the "better" Batman stuff was like that-- a few standout moments or performances coasting on a strong high-concept and aesthetic, and a recognition of what parts of the comic worked at a time when everyone else in Hollywood was hell-bent on stripping the "weird" factor out of superheroes. By the time you hit later Justice League and Justice League Unlimited the writing actually gets quite good, again nothing spectacular but way ahead of where almost everyone else was at the time. The Cadmus arc was genuinely excellent serialized storytelling. But in terms of real age? Yeah the dopey soundtrack, spotty animation, and the fact that the writing wasn't exactly The Wire definitely hampers it. I'm still a fan but it's like, the fanset that beats the DC drum always needed to chill tf out. I don't know of any Zoomers I'd show DCAU stuff to without massive asterisks of "for their time" stamped across it. Honestly that Teen Titans cartoon and Brave and the Bold has aged far better if we're talking DC animated stuff.
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Apr 14, 2020 02:34
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mind the walrus posted:Even then it's not quite as good as you might think, it was just ahead the curve. The writing is rarely very sophisticated, it just didn't wink at the audience nor make them feel remotely silly for taking fantasy nonsense seriously (note: this is also one reason a lot of people hated The Last Jedi, it didn't make them feel badass for liking Star Wars, it made them feel like they needed to grow up a bit... which they did and still do). Like Dini and Timm and their people had the prescience to hire Adam West and have him act as a pulp hero who inspired Bruce Wayne, but the actual plotting and writing in the episode is basic as gently caress and coasts almost entirely on premise. Most of the "better" Batman stuff was like that-- a few standout moments or performances coasting on a strong high-concept and aesthetic, and a recognition of what parts of the comic worked at a time when everyone else in Hollywood was hell-bent on stripping the "weird" factor out of superheroes. It was a show that respected children by trying to introduce grown-up ideas in an accessible way. That’s hard to do.
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Apr 14, 2020 02:38
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I've also always kinda took it that, while the Flash and Supergirl have comparable average top speeds (without taking the Speed Force or somesuch into account), The Flash has much better dexterity at that pace. So she probably can't do a super-speed ice cream run, because getting the ice cream and then getting it back requires a bit more than just pure land/air speed. Basically, they can both cross large distances fast, but the Flash can do everything fast.
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Apr 14, 2020 02:38
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Captain Monkey posted:This. My wife is perfectly capable of going downstairs and getting ice cream, but she still likes it when I bring her ice cream. my understanding of it is as follows brought by self = meal, guilt, sin brought by others = treat, reward, gift
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Apr 14, 2020 02:39
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:It was a show that respected children by trying to introduce grown-up ideas in an accessible way. That’s hard to do. You can also see this with anything relating to 1990s X-Men-- the kids remember the Jim Lee posters, that kickass theme song, the Capcom games, that one beat 'em up, and maybe the feeling of reading Age of Apocalypse or something, and extrapolate a very different sense of what that era's products actually were like (hint: garbage).
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Apr 14, 2020 02:46
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hard counter posted:one of the main issues was that there were multiple studios handling different episodes, even different elements of a single episode, and while they liked how one studio handled weather, fog, mist, etc and they liked the attention to detail of another studio, one studio they used was eventually fired for the poor, inconsistent quality of their output The commentary to the Mr. Freeze debut episode mentions that the Japanese animation studio paid so much attention to the work that the studio founder/head personally did all the transparent frost effect work on Freeze's helmet. In the very same episode they mention a shot of that Batmobile that hugs some curves so closely it apparently bends like a noodle 
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Apr 14, 2020 03:08
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Cleretic posted:I've also always kinda took it that, while the Flash and Supergirl have comparable average top speeds (without taking the Speed Force or somesuch into account), The Flash has much better dexterity at that pace. So she probably can't do a super-speed ice cream run, because getting the ice cream and then getting it back requires a bit more than just pure land/air speed. Condolences to Mrs. Flash.
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Apr 14, 2020 03:09
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mind the walrus posted:I agree. I'm also saying that while it was trailblazing it's not some timeless classic you can pop in today, and there's a weird stripe of Millennial who hasn't actually watched an episode in 20 years who seems to think it is. Ok being fair there are a few standout episodes and highlights that are worth a drat, but they're definitely the exception that proves the rule. Yeah, my memory of it being somewhat grounded in human drama didn’t survive the first five minutes of my rewatch a few years ago, when the Joker escapes jail by turning his Christmas tree into a rocket without explanation. It’s pretty obvious everyone involved was doing Tiny Toons the year before.
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Apr 14, 2020 03:34
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christmas boots posted:Condolences to Mrs. Flash. Iris seems pretty happy, so either that's not a problem in bed or she doesn't mind that it is.
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Apr 14, 2020 03:43
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Cleretic posted:I've also always kinda took it that, while the Flash and Supergirl have comparable average top speeds (without taking the Speed Force or somesuch into account), The Flash has much better dexterity at that pace. So she probably can't do a super-speed ice cream run, because getting the ice cream and then getting it back requires a bit more than just pure land/air speed. I always thought it was more that, like, even though they both have super speed there's Supergirl's "I can go so super fast you don't see me move" and The Flash's "I can loving run through time," so she was impressed at seeing someone go as fast as he did. Plus, Gotta Go Fast is all The Flash can do, so I'd hope he'd be pretty good at it (though not good enough not to get clowned on by at least one evil speedster per season). Smallville handled it in a way I liked, in the episode that introduced their Flash: it ends with him and Clark having a footrace, and they're neck and neck for a bit until Flash stops goofing off, then he speeds way up, starts running backwards to give Clark a smug little grin, and zips off.
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Apr 14, 2020 03:45
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OTOH: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OvREZb9tNw
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Apr 14, 2020 03:58
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I heard discussing Flash's bullshit speed was a Flash at his absolute peak speed was faster than instant teleportation. Detective No. 27 has a new favorite as of 04:02 on Apr 14, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2020 04:00
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Baba Yaga Fanboy posted:I always thought it was more that, like, even though they both have super speed there's Supergirl's "I can go so super fast you don't see me move" and The Flash's "I can loving run through time," so she was impressed at seeing someone go as fast as he did. Plus, Gotta Go Fast is all The Flash can do, so I'd hope he'd be pretty good at it (though not good enough not to get clowned on by at least one evil speedster per season). Happens in the comics, too. Superman and Flash are having a discussion/argument (while running across the surface of the ocean the entire time) and Superman says something along the lines of "You're not that much faster than me. We ran all those races. I even won a couple of them." Flash responds "Those were for charity, Clark" and the next panel is a shockwave as he speeds away.
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Apr 14, 2020 04:40
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Rewinding to Fred talk: the weirdest thing for me is that the Buffy-verse had established that an afterlife, including actual Heaven, is a thing. Then when Fred's body is taken over by Illyria they explicitly state that her soul is destroyed so none of that for her; just oblivion. Like that seemed needlessly cruel. Both to Fred and to Wesley.
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Apr 14, 2020 06:06
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mind the walrus posted:The only thing on Buffy that has really aged poorly imo is Anya, who is written as essentially autistic in Season 5 for "lolz" and holy gently caress it is painful to watch after a while. The really weird thing about Anya was that originally she was just a demon who got turned into a human and that's why she behaved weirdly and didn't understand human stuff. But then they decided that actually she'd originally been a human before she was a demon and she's just always been like that. 
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Apr 14, 2020 06:11
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Polaron posted:Happens in the comics, too. Superman and Flash are having a discussion/argument (while running across the surface of the ocean the entire time) and Superman says something along the lines of "You're not that much faster than me. We ran all those races. I even won a couple of them." Hell yeah.  There's also this one where he's absolutely ludicrous:   And there's another retelling of the race in this comic and it's part of one of the best Superman series of All Time (definitely, if you've ever been a comics fan, or even if you haven't, pick up a copy of Superman: Up in the Sky!):  But, since this is a TV thread, we'll throw in one of Wally being fast as hell from JLU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-NUaF6Lhzc
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Apr 14, 2020 06:56
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^^^ Good lord, yes. That scene is so great.Tiggum posted:As I understand it, Flash speed is impressive even to Kryptonians. Which brings to mind the only good scene in the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klX0jtvFfx0 Megillah Gorilla has a new favorite as of 07:40 on Apr 14, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2020 07:34
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The CW Flash seems like exactly the kind of lighthearted cheese I would really be into, but the first few episodes leaned really hard on how much he wanted to gently caress his step-sister and I was like "Y'know, there's plenty of other silly superhero shows out there."
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Apr 14, 2020 08:12
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Someone did the math on that nuke thing and Flash had to be running at something ridiculous like 30 times the speed of light.
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Apr 14, 2020 09:34
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Tiggum posted:The really weird thing about Anya was that originally she was just a demon who got turned into a human and that's why she behaved weirdly and didn't understand human stuff. But then they decided that actually she'd originally been a human before she was a demon and she's just always been like that. On the one hand I do give props to the show for making a lead lady character ASD-coded, something I've literally never seen a single other time in any show.... ever, which is weird because ASD ladies make up at least 30% of the confirmed ASD population... but on the other most of the jokes are "hah hah she's dense" and "hah hah Xander go babysit your hot, dumb girlfriend." Yeah, and Mad Love and April Moon and Ironside's Darkseid and Jeffrey Coombs' Scarecrow and the Thanagar twist and Cadmus and all that stuff is genuinely good, and I think that's all specific enough off the top of my head to tell you I'm deeply broken enough to know more than the average amount of poo poo when it comes to this children's cartoon franchise and aren't just pulling from the "won an Emmy" section on wikipedia. It was an important show with some highlights, but 90% of it absolutely does not hold up. I remember showing a roommate the Batman/Superman: World's Finest movie and cringing throughout half of it because I couldn't believe how much worse it was than I remembered-- and that was over twelve years ago. Crowetron posted:The CW Flash seems like exactly the kind of lighthearted cheese I would really be into, but the first few episodes leaned really hard on how much he wanted to gently caress his step-sister and I was like "Y'know, there's plenty of other silly superhero shows out there."
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Apr 14, 2020 11:04
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Animation short-cuts aren't exactly exclusive to old cartoons, watching pretty much anything of any level of sophistication long enough and you start learning to recognise the cost-saving measures and the ways they try to disguise them. Though Batman has a tendency to be tonally all over the place. Reminded of binging Gotham, and how that's at its best when it gets completely ridiculous.
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Apr 14, 2020 12:28
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Animation short-cuts aren't exactly exclusive to old cartoons, watching pretty much anything of any level of sophistication long enough and you start learning to recognise the cost-saving measures and the ways they try to disguise them. I had no idea Gotham would get so stupid when I started watching it, and I wish I had, because it's glorious, I love it.
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Apr 14, 2020 12:45
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Toshimo posted:Hell yeah. Hell yeah, thanks for posting these. I wanted to post Flash saving people from the bomb but I didn't find a good scan of the pages. It makes me think of this, one of my favorite pages of any comic ever: 
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Apr 14, 2020 16:44
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Toshimo posted:Hell yeah. I know it's a comic book so there are no actual rules, but I assume fast superheroes can survive the massive acceleration because of magic, but do they also have the ability to share this magic with everything that they touch? Sometimes they do a lot of damage to people because they are punching them at the speed of sound, but other times they rescue someone by moving them at super speeds and that person doesn't die of internal bleeding.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:37
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Speed force.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:50
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something something the speed force
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Apr 14, 2020 18:51
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rydiafan posted:Rewinding to Fred talk: the weirdest thing for me is that the Buffy-verse had established that an afterlife, including actual Heaven, is a thing. Then when Fred's body is taken over by Illyria they explicitly state that her soul is destroyed so none of that for her; just oblivion. For what it's worth they continued the story in a bunch of comics nobody read (same with Buffy) and scanning the plot summaries she gets restored by some magical time reset shenanigans but has to share a body with Illyria. Also Wesley becomes a ghost but just kind of disappears at the end of an arc. Mr Luxury Yacht has a new favorite as of 19:06 on Apr 14, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2020 18:54
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Speed force. Oh, is that what they call that garish palette?
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Apr 14, 2020 18:55
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The Flash is probably DC's most absolute bullshit character to the point where they revel in it, going really fast lets you do anything including time and interdimensional travel.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:00
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jjack229 posted:I know it's a comic book so there are no actual rules, but I assume fast superheroes can survive the massive acceleration because of magic, but do they also have the ability to share this magic with everything that they touch? Sometimes they do a lot of damage to people because they are punching them at the speed of sound, but other times they rescue someone by moving them at super speeds and that person doesn't die of internal bleeding. Welcome to one of the core concepts of The Boys.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:02
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jjack229 posted:I know it's a comic book so there are no actual rules, but I assume fast superheroes can survive the massive acceleration because of magic, but do they also have the ability to share this magic with everything that they touch? Sometimes they do a lot of damage to people because they are punching them at the speed of sound, but other times they rescue someone by moving them at super speeds and that person doesn't die of internal bleeding. i think superman hand waved it by saying some of his invulnerability comes from a field he emits and can manipulate a little, but this was back when there needed to be an explanation for why his suit hardly rips since only his cape was kryptonian you wouldn't want henry cavill running around naked because air drag vaporized his suit would you
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Apr 14, 2020 19:20
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The Flash is probably DC's most absolute bullshit character to the point where they revel in it, going really fast lets you do anything including time and interdimensional travel. I mean the whole concept of the superpower starts with throwing out fundamental laws of physics so it’s probably correct to just get weird with it and explain as little as possible.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:23
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Baba Yaga Fanboy posted:Hell yeah, thanks for posting these. I wanted to post Flash saving people from the bomb but I didn't find a good scan of the pages. It makes me think of this, one of my favorite pages of any comic ever: Hell yeah, I love the way Flash and his powers was portrayed in Kingdom Come, I was going to post a page/panel from it myself, you saved me the trouble of googling it HopperUK posted:I had no idea Gotham would get so stupid when I started watching it, and I wish I had, because it's glorious, I love it.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:24
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