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Andrast posted:I do fine but something about this combat system makes me want to get really greedy when it's almost always a bad idea If I get 1 more ATB bar then i could arcane ward BEFORE firaga+magnif.... oh no, here I am throat clamped on the ground.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:34
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The worst is building ATB as Aerith then executing Pray only to have every enemy hit you at once to stun you out of it, losing both the Pray and both ATB bars.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:37
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esperterra posted:I'm surprised how many people are having difficulty on normal, or fighting through battles without the right elements to take advantage of weaknesses. I've wiped once all game so far, and I just have one chapter left. Not to be condescending, I'm just curious why so many people are having issues with the combat. You may have luck on your side. I've wiped a couple of times due to just bad luck timing in more chaotic fights (preparing a Curaga with a character with 1500 HP, then I turn around and nothing happened and someone's dead now and now I dont have an ATB bar to work with), and also being completely wrongly specced before a fight. In a typical JRPG you have *some* access to the necessary status element before fighting; in this, it might take 10 minutes before you figure out you're either going to take an hour to whittle away with crap (or take chances and die), or just start over, which is annoying.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:44
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homeless snail posted:I think its really easy to look at the combat in this game and get the wrong impression of what it actually is. Either playing it too much like an action game and not dealing with the RPG aspects, or too much like an RPG and not actively taking control of people and using ATB properly. Its a strange game imo, and one you really have to actively work to engage with It really helps to have played the 13s to get used to Stagger-character switch whaling, and realize that's what you're doing in this as opposed to 15 where you just stock up on healing items and just win everything because you can do whatever whenever you want to do it.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:47
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There are quite a few "traps" to fall into that makes the combat feel much harder: - Dodging does not have iframes, so dodging is generally not a good idea - If you get interrupted, you lose both the ATB, AND the MP/limit gauge spent - Spells can miss fast moving enemies - Items need a full segment of ATB to cast From my experience, each attempt at a fight will either be laughably easy with almost no use of healing at all, or a battle against attrition where you constantly have to heal, revive and run around avoiding poo poo till you can get off healing spells, unable to focus on attacking the enemy. One interrupted/missed cast is all it takes for the former kind of battle to end up as the latter battle.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:54
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Darko posted:You may have luck on your side. I've wiped a couple of times due to just bad luck timing in more chaotic fights (preparing a Curaga with a character with 1500 HP, then I turn around and nothing happened and someone's dead now and now I dont have an ATB bar to work with), and also being completely wrongly specced before a fight. In a typical JRPG you have *some* access to the necessary status element before fighting; in this, it might take 10 minutes before you figure out you're either going to take an hour to whittle away with crap (or take chances and die), or just start over, which is annoying. idk, I just manage the hell outta myHP and fire off basic cures a lot to keep topped up, usually with Barret since he gains ATB quickly and has enough distance from the chaos to pop one off without interruption. Or Aeris for the same reason. I've had plenty fights where I'm right on the edge of dying, but never have too many issues pulling back and being patient to recover everyone. Positioning and aggro management seem pretty important in this game. Barring some of the huge AoEs from some bosses it's never too much of an issue to move someone out of the way, queue up a spell, and swap to someone else to draw the enemy's attention. Swapping characters often is so key.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:54
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I really think the combat could have used another pass when it comes to camera and notifications because it's annoying as hell to get hit by unlockable attacks from offscreen. There's a lot of poo poo to keep track of to avoid getting blindsided, even in some of the regular rear end fights.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:56
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DrNutt posted:I really think the combat could have used another pass when it comes to camera and notifications because it's annoying as hell to get hit by unlockable attacks from offscreen. There's a lot of poo poo to keep track of to avoid getting blindsided, even in some of the regular rear end fights. Yeah, how hard is it to code a camera that keeps the locked enemy IN THE CENTER OF THE SCREEN goddamnit now the target reticle is offscreen again
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Apr 14, 2020 20:58
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Cavelcade posted:I don't think that's accurate, until she falls drain the bridge anyway. The impression I got was that Cloud wasn't popular but him and Tifa cared for each other - that's why he went after her when she was looking for her mom. I think the way they explained it in the original was that Cloud had a crush on Tifa, but he was shy and awkward and she was always surrounded by friends, and so he didn't really hang out with that group. That's why he went after her, and was always watching her. She just knew him as the kid around town who mostly kept to himself. She didn't dislike him or anything, she just wasn't really friends with him, so she was curious when he asked her to meet by the water tower. He decided to join SOLDIER to impress her because he was a dumb kid and didn't have much self-confidence and thought becoming a big hero would make the girl fall for him.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:59
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Also, the A.I. characters need to do SOMETHING, at times. Having the characters you're not using not charging any ATB at all while you are aggroing or dodging swordipedes or whatever is just annoying. No real reason for Aerith or Barret to not just be blasting away at all times.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:04
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There's a shitton of attacks that you can evade by dodging. Just because it doesn't have iframes doesn't mean it isn't useful once you start being able to read enemy tells and text.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:06
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DrNutt posted:I really think the combat could have used another pass when it comes to camera and notifications because it's annoying as hell to get hit by unlockable attacks from offscreen. There's a lot of poo poo to keep track of to avoid getting blindsided, even in some of the regular rear end fights. Now the camera often being a hot mess I can definitely agree with.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:08
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ymgve posted:Yeah, how hard is it to code a camera that keeps the locked enemy IN THE CENTER OF THE SCREEN goddamnit now the target reticle is offscreen again Are you clicking in to fully lock on, 'cause that'll draw camera focus. I hard lock way more than I'd like to just to make the camera less of a pain.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:09
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Even locked on, the camera is rear end and regularly gets stuck at bizarre angles.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:12
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I think the only fight I've *really* gotten irritated with thus far was those stun spamming bugs in Sector 5, and even that was just a matter of changing up tactics (Punisher countering works much better there than you'd think)
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Apr 14, 2020 21:12
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esperterra posted:Are you clicking in to fully lock on, 'cause that'll draw camera focus. I hard lock way more than I'd like to just to make the camera less of a pain. That does work to a degree, but the annoyance normally comes with flying enemies and switching to Barret or Aerith and they're turned in the complete wrong direction in the middle of a hectic point. Tifa and Cloud at least are melee and typically are focused where they should be. Part of that *is* because you switch every 5 seconds or whatever and the camera gets pretty confused at times because if the pure amount of focus changes you're doing.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:13
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Yea I’m probably just not figuring out how the combat works. That’s why I was wondering if it’s just something I’m missing that will make the boss fights easier and not have to spam healing poo poo all the time. I beat the air buster fight but it was not from good play.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:13
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oh god no not the spear guys that turn you into a frog again 
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Apr 14, 2020 21:14
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I think my biggest difficulty with the combat is that I'm bad at keeping track of all the information being presented. I prioritize keeping track of my ATB bars, and what enemy I'm locked onto, and their stagger gauge and HP total, and MY HP totals, and what abilities I'm picking from the menus... and that's about all I can manage. Which means I never, ever notice the notifications of what the enemy is actually doing, so I pretty much never block or dodge out of the way and take every hit directly to my face. I think if I could keep track of when enemy attack indicators popped up and just block stuff, the fights would actually be very manageable. But I think that's more of a problem with me than the game.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:14
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ASenileAnimal posted:oh god no not the spear guys that turn you into a frog again Single worst enemy in the game.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:16
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DrNutt posted:I really think the combat could have used another pass when it comes to camera and notifications because it's annoying as hell to get hit by unlockable attacks from offscreen. There's a lot of poo poo to keep track of to avoid getting blindsided, even in some of the regular rear end fights. The enemy attack notifications are way, way, way too subtle; it's especially apparent on Hard Mode where you're really just fighting against visual information (MMORPG-like floating numbers and colorful-explosions) Darko posted:Also, the A.I. characters need to do SOMETHING, at times. Having the characters you're not using not charging any ATB at all while you are aggroing or dodging swordipedes or whatever is just annoying. No real reason for Aerith or Barret to not just be blasting away at all times. The game is designed around the assumption that players don't want to dodge or defend and will immediately just switch away; it's kinda weird.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:16
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Frog guys I just had a lot of Maiden's Kisses on hand (because what other use would I have for them), and, well...Tifa still gains ATB to burn even as a frog. So cure it
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Apr 14, 2020 21:17
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I was struggling with the game real hard on normal, until a certain point doom house everything just clicked for me and I was swapping back and forth between characters and taking advantage of enemy AI/weaknesses and making sure that everyone was using all of their abilities. It's a real fun system but it's a little unclear as to the "right" way to play it.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:17
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Invalid Validation posted:Yea I’m probably just not figuring out how the combat works. That’s why I was wondering if it’s just something I’m missing that will make the boss fights easier and not have to spam healing poo poo all the time. I beat the air buster fight but it was not from good play. First Strike materia on one of the characters, start the battle with their most useful thing, immediately switch off on another character and wail away to build their ATB, then set up their useful attack, then immediately switch to the third and do the same. Enemies don't normally pull out the stops at the beginning because the game doesn't really expect you to enter a battle like that. Then you're doing quick switching and managing characters' bars (building a reserve bar for them for level twos and making sure someone ALWAYS has a bar). The other thing you should be doing is starting with a magic focus to build Stagger bar, then start wailing on the enemies with triangle once pressured (which also builds two bars for your characters), then once Staggered, do all your most powerful Abilities or Limit Breaks.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:20
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Arrrthritis posted:It's a real fun system but it's a little unclear as to the "right" way to play it. The fact that it fails to teach you the fun and designed way to play it was a flaw with XIII too, which, considering they share a lot of DNA, is perhaps not surprising.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:21
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CottonWolf posted:Single worst enemy in the game. Can't be, they don't fly.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:21
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Terper posted:There's a shitton of attacks that you can evade by dodging. Just because it doesn't have iframes doesn't mean it isn't useful once you start being able to read enemy tells and text. ymgve posted:There are quite a few "traps" to fall into that makes the combat feel much harder:
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Apr 14, 2020 21:25
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I wish there was an option where you could still move the camera with right analog while locked on but it would snap back to the target if you're not doing an input. As far as I've tried the options only let you completely unlock the camera from your locked in target.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:25
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I thought somebody said that the game doesn't tell you how to beat the splitting enemies. The assessment specifically tells you that killing the clones that are spawned are effective.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:25
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First strike on Cloud and triple slash a few times is a nice battle ender against scrub enemies. The bandits don't even know what hit them.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:25
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Zaa Boogie posted:I thought somebody said that the game doesn't tell you how to beat the splitting enemies. The assessment specifically tells you that killing the clones that are spawned are effective. It's not clear, it tells you that hitting them while dancing will make a clone, and "disposing the clone will allow you to handle the main enemy effectively" or something, which I interpreted as "the clone will be annoying and you won't be able to focus on the real enemy unless it is gone"
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Apr 14, 2020 21:27
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Arrrthritis posted:It's a real fun system but it's a little unclear as to the "right" way to play it. I think it's supposed to be souls-like combat: only lock on when you are on the offensive, unlock for bigger enemies / groups. Being able to pause combat replaces traditional animation cancels in a crude way.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:28
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One thing with the combat that I know I've seen people struggle with is how hard it can be to pull out of a bad situation. Items costing ATB is a good and necessary balancing step, but it also means that if you're down a character and people's HP is low it can be very hard to recover. It's definitely possible, but it's a lot harder than in a more traditional JRPG.homeless snail posted:Yeah but there are plenty that you can never ever dodge because they home in, something what I think trips a lot of people up. It looks and feels like a dodge in an action game which is usually a general purpose mechanic that you can use pretty broadly, but it operates more like an RPG command like a second guard button that you only want to use in specific situations. This is probably what keeps getting me with the dodge. I keep playing like it's a pure action game and so I just have this reflex to try dodging things, and there are plenty of attacks that just aren't meant to be dodged. I'm pretty okay at the combat in most situations and having fun on Normal, but I need to train myself to block more and learn which attacks I'm supposed to be able to dodge.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:31
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Harrow posted:One thing with the combat that I know I've seen people struggle with is how hard it can be to pull out of a bad situation. Yeah, there's very little improv in this game during combat; sometimes you just have to go in prepared.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:39
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Another interesting thing is that the CPU can cancel a lot recovery frames into guard, and are pretty good at dodging, presumably so they don't get wrecked for attacking at bad times. This has the side effect of it often being better to commit kind of hard and then swap away before you take a hit so that the CPU can handle the defense. Like your default defensive option should just be swapping characters a lot of the time. Or at least, it seems that way to me!
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Apr 14, 2020 21:41
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I downloaded my brother's copy since I figured it couldn't hurt to play it for free regardless of how I felt about the episodic plan. There's a cutscene in Shinra HQ where your weapons suddenly change to the defaults for every character for the duration instead of your equipped weapons like in every other cutscene in the game and that feels like a really weird oversight.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:44
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Yeah. It's the switch from in-engine to FMV. I get it, but it does jar a bit. I actually think that the in engine stuff looks good enough that the FMV was unnecessary, but clearly Square didn't for some reason or other. (There's probably a good reason for this, but I'm no game development expert.)
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Apr 14, 2020 21:47
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esperterra posted:I'm surprised how many people are having difficulty on normal, or fighting through battles without the right elements to take advantage of weaknesses. I've wiped once all game so far, and I just have one chapter left. Not to be condescending, I'm just curious why so many people are having issues with the combat. Eh, if you've got the horn for *borne it's probably like playing kingdom hearts on easy.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:48
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Wall Market, y'all
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Apr 14, 2020 21:49
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Question about what I assume is the last boss: “hitting him with a certain attack when his guard is down will instantly stagger him” - I assume this means “hit him when he’s reloading”, but is there a clue in the game as to what that “certain attack” is? Or just any attack will do?
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Apr 14, 2020 21:51
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