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Oh hey, neat! An episode on Stanley. You know, I used to live in St. Asaph - there's a monument to the scum in that city. No mention about his work for King Leopold, gee - I wonder why. Still, the only other thing they've got going for them historically in the modern era is the fact that the guys who wrote 'Pack up your Troubles' came from the place. You also find out that one of the two of them committed suicide. Fun place!
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Apr 14, 2020 14:12
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Hey Gunfondler, I listened to the latest ep last night, and when BWD said "I could do this podcast for 18 hours.", I thought "yes please, this is entertaining as poo poo! You ain't touring, so why not?" As my own personal Seriously, that was just what the reverend doctor ordered. Thank you.
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Apr 14, 2020 16:15
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B33rChiller posted:Hey Gunfondler, He’s great, I’m always happy to see that he’s a guest. Also I’m sure this isn’t quite the right thread but it might be as good as any for this: I have a 13 year old nephew in Sweden who is getting into D&D and Warhammer. He’s autistic and has almost no friends at school, they’re all outdoorsy sporty types who don’t want to hear about bugbears or Godzilla. Lately I’ve been kind of concerned about his interests and humor, to me it sounds like he’s getting reddit poisoned and I fear that he’s a prime target for getting redpilled or whatever. When he was here in the US and played D&D with a local group a couple kids got mad, saying he was being a racist. He said he was trying to role play the biases that the D&D races have for each other, but I don’t want him focusing on racial stereotypes for entertainment. I’m trying to guide him as best I can but we only text and FaceTime a few times a week. His family doesn’t seem to take it very seriously but there’s a certain amount of casual racism that is acceptable in Sweden in my experience. Are there any resources for helping gamer kids like that to not fall into being hateful redditor neckbeards before it’s too late?
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Apr 14, 2020 17:54
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Snowy posted:He’s great, I’m always happy to see that he’s a guest. If he’s in Sörmland on the off chance lmk, there is literally a wargaming store in my building and I am a woman of color, I can vouch for them, or if there’s anything else I can do, shoot me a DM. If not by me, show him poo poo like critical role even though I cannot stand it, they’re dece with representation. Show him that nerds of color exist, and that you can let your freak flag fly without being lovely to others. And this one’ll sting, but if he does something in front of you that’s over the line, call him out firmly, clearly, but in love. Same for his parents as well, as Swedes Mr. Bean their way through race relations 101. I’ve been here for four years and it’d be heart crushingly tragic if it wasn’t so goddamn comedic at times.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:12
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teen witch posted:If he’s in Sörmland on the off chance lmk, there is literally a wargaming store in my building and I am a woman of color, I can vouch for them, or if there’s anything else I can do, shoot me a DM. Sadly no, he’s off in the mountains near the arctic circle. There’s hardly any chance of finding cool gamers in his tiny town. I really appreciate your offer and I’ll let you know if I think of anything, thank you very much! quote:If not by me, show him poo poo like critical role even though I cannot stand it, they’re dece with representation. Show him that nerds of color exist, and that you can let your freak flag fly without being lovely to others. He’s already thinking critical role is bad because it’s “making everyone think they need to DM like Joe Manganiello”. Which is insane, this kid reads so much about D&D but he’s played like 3 times. He’d be lucky as gently caress to find someone trying to DM like that. quote:And this one’ll sting, but if he does something in front of you that’s over the line, call him out firmly, clearly, but in love. Same for his parents as well, as Swedes Mr. Bean their way through race relations 101. I’ve been here for four years and it’d be heart crushingly tragic if it wasn’t so goddamn comedic at times. Yeah I’m trying to be as direct as I can without driving him off. He’s really a sweet funny lonely kid and I’d love to help if I can because I didn’t have anyone I felt I could talk to when I was in a similar position.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:55
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Teen Witch's advice would be the best I can give, really. I dunno, this might be a longer shot, but maybe try to get him hooked on some fiction that does a really good job of representation without beating the reader over the head with it? The Expanse is real good for that.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:02
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https://twitter.com/why_sophie_why/status/1250111297334599681
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Apr 14, 2020 20:05
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Snowy posted:Sadly no, he’s off in the mountains near the arctic circle. There’s hardly any chance of finding cool gamers in his tiny town. I really appreciate your offer and I’ll let you know if I think of anything, thank you very much! So... not near Umea, either?
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Apr 14, 2020 20:09
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GunFondler42069 posted:Teen Witch's advice would be the best I can give, really. I dunno, this might be a longer shot, but maybe try to get him hooked on some fiction that does a really good job of representation without beating the reader over the head with it? The Expanse is real good for that. That’s a great idea. I’ll look into the Expanse and try to find more fiction like that. Samovar posted:So... not near Umea, either? No, he’s about four hours northwest from there so everyone wonders why he doesn’t want to hunt and play hockey all the time. He might start living with my sister, his stepmom, in Luleå which would help a lot. They at least have some friendly gamers around. Thanks guys and sorry for the derail, I’ve just heard so much about fascists in gaming, especially Warhammer, and would love to help prevent another case of nerdy fascism.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:37
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Third tweet like this I’ve seen today: https://twitter.com/jennineak/status/1250399386703552514?s=21 Ain’t listened to it yet, what gives?
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Apr 15, 2020 13:28
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Robert mentions an encounter with someone who had claimed to have served in the Israeli military but who came across as very American, and noted that Americans going to Israel and serving in the military and then, like, deciding that Israel isn't for them and coming back to the US is a thing that happens and did not take the opportunity to segue into a diatribe about Israeli imperialism, meaning he must really love the IDF At least that's my guess It's a pretty dumb take IMO
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Apr 15, 2020 13:33
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I don’t think complicity with the Israeli regime is a good thing. I’ll probably still give it a listen but BtB is usually getting lots of love on Twitter, this episode is the first time I’ve seen negative feedback since that weird episode they had about a surgeon and all kinds of trans stuff came up and Robert said “Transsexual” instead of Transgendered a bunch, but then he invited a trans person into the show to come correct him. Hopefully he’ll do an episode on Israel and have a Palestinian come on now.
Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Apr 15, 2020 13:36
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Bust Rodd posted:Third tweet like this I’ve seen today: Lmao talk about a reach He also talked about how deeply hosed up that ex-IDF guy was as a person, but I guess that doesn't count Also this: DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Robert mentions an encounter with someone who had claimed to have served in the Israeli military but who came across as very American, and noted that Americans going to Israel and serving in the military and then, like, deciding that Israel isn't for them and coming back to the US is a thing that happens and did not take the opportunity to segue into a diatribe about Israeli imperialism, meaning he must really love the IDF
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Apr 15, 2020 13:38
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EDIT: adding the quote so it's clear what I'm responding toBust Rodd posted:I don’t think complicity with the Israeli regime is a good thing I don't think it is either, but I also think a podcast episode dedicated to "no look this poo poo actually happens in rural America, let's tell some stories 'cause y'all need to understand this" is where you put the foreign policy opinions. Like, I don't know how Robert feels about Israel one way or the other, but I do know that if he'd taken the time to explain it in that particular episode it would have felt pretty out of place DOUBLE EDIT: to be extra-clear, at no point does he say "oh and this IDF adventurism is a good thing" or whatever, he simply notes that people join the IDF in the context of this one dude who claimed to have joined the IDF. And also had a child bride. So. DivineCoffeeBinge fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Apr 15, 2020 13:39
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:EDIT: adding the quote so it's clear what I'm responding to Agreed on all points.
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Apr 15, 2020 13:40
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It wouldn’t be out of place or out of character for Robert to pause and just stress that he is opposed to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian Territories and their open-air prison system is a reprehensible war crime. That would actually be, uh, pretty on brand and sort of the thing I’ve come to expect from him. Edit: I’m not accusing him of anything one way or the other, but I’d be genuinely pretty shocked if Robert turned out to be an Israeli tankie. Like I said I’ll listen to the ep but yeah it’s just weird to see his pod get any form of criticism in my Uber-leftist Twitter bubble. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Apr 15, 2020 13:41
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Bust Rodd posted:It wouldn’t be out of place or out of character for Robert to pause and just stress that he is opposed to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian Territories and their open-air prison system is a reprehensible war crime. That would actually be, uh, pretty on brand and sort of the thing I’ve come to expect from him. Except - and I tried to make this clearer in my edit, apologies for not spelling it out the first time around - the IDF was mentioned entirely in the context of "this dude said he was in the IDF, that's how we started talking, now let me tell you about the giant knife collection he had in his house in the middle of nowhere." Like, the IDF was not an important part of the story or even tangentially related to the themes the episode was exploring. I don't know, maybe listen to the ep before you make up your mind from a couple of tweets that Robert is in favor of the occupation of Palestine, I guess
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Apr 15, 2020 13:44
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I think it's worth mentioning that you really should listen to the episode before you decide what would be "out of place", because it had an entirely different tone from the usual BtB dissertation where Robert is clearly following a script/outline of the information he wants to cover about the subject. This was a much more casual bullshitting session about their personal stories.
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Apr 15, 2020 13:46
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Bust Rodd posted:It wouldn’t be out of place or out of character for Robert to pause and just stress that he is opposed to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian Territories and their open-air prison system is a reprehensible war crime. That would actually be, uh, pretty on brand and sort of the thing I’ve come to expect from him. He's mentioned his opposition to the constant war criming that Israel gets up to many times before, I don't think he has to pause the show to denounce Israel and their crimes against humanity every single time he says the word Israel or anything.
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Apr 15, 2020 13:46
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Mentioning the IDF exists and how Americans can be a part of it isn’t problematic. Like he’s also mentioned other heinous people he’s talked to and met with and like isn’t he a journalist? If it’s because his ex was wearing an IDF shirt then yeah, yuck on that but then again, perhaps they are an ex for reasons. Admittedly it raised my eyebrows as well, but like, comparing all other opinions expressed in episodes prior vs an ex with an IDF shirt/IDF guy with Literal Child Bride, I don’t think you need to spell out what side of the fence Robert sits on - it’s clear.
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Apr 15, 2020 13:48
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Look I was literally just asking what it was about. If a bunch of BtB’s Palestinian fans start posting about the pod like this my first instinct is to listen to POC and not immediately spring to Robert’s aid like a White Knight, I know he’s a good guy with a definitive progressive slant, but one of the earliest lessons I personally learned about US politics is 99% of the time if you like a politician or public figure you should double check their views on Israel because they are probably a stan, I was probably just having flashbacks to that. It wouldn’t shock me if a gun rights advocate who openly comps to prepperhood was a Zionist. Also one of them mentions is that in America the word Nazi gets thrown around a lot and everyone understands that connotation, no need for an explanation. A lot of Palestinians have that connotation with IDF members that we as Americans do not. If Robert was like “I interviewed a Nazi” even if he spent the entire back half of the episode making fun of them it would still be weird and potentially very uncomfortable for listeners, and it seems like some Palestinian listers felt similarly triggered. Roberts a good guy and great journalist but he’s made mistakes and bad calls before, it’s ok, relax lol like I said I’m still gonna listen to it. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Apr 15, 2020 13:56
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Bust Rodd posted:Look I was literally just asking what it was about. If a bunch of BtB’s Palestinian fans start posting about the pod like this my first instinct is to listen to POC and not immediately spring to Robert’s aid like a White Knight, I know he’s a good guy with a definitive progressive slant, but one of the earliest lessons I personally learned about US politics is 99% of the time if you like a politician or public figure you should double check their views on Israel because they are probably a stan, I was probably just having flashbacks to that. It wouldn’t shock me if a gun rights advocate who openly comps to prepperhood was a Zionist. You say that but people kept explaining and you kept coming back to it. Like, I think you're a good poster and I understand the knee-jerk reaction but then you kept going back to and now all of a sudden other people have to relax? Also, isn't listening to something before you form an opinion about it usually...I don't know, the way you do it? Twitter can be pretty reactionary and in the moment.
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Apr 15, 2020 14:02
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I was just providing context by assuming some of the posters in this thread might be white US citizens and probably don’t have the horrible and graphic associations with IDF that the Palestinians do. People don’t immediately associate them with negativity in our country. If people come in immediately with “it’s a bad take and they are dumb for expressing that opinion” historically I’ve found listening to POC when they make claims like this is usually more beneficial than antagonistic. Like I completely understand Robert goes on to explain that this dude sucks and is weird and a kook. I don’t think their issue is in representing them in a good light, the issue seems to be “why even interview someone who maybe participated in the Israeli POGROM... at all?” Basically when non-white people tell me something upsets them, I try to listen first before allowing all of my biases to make judgments, even if I like the accused person, because sometimes I just do not understand where they are coming from because I’ve never been for example, a Palestinian refugee trying to escape from the horrors of occupation. Also, sometimes if a bunch of people tell you a piece of content is upsetting, you actually DON’T have to listen to it before you form an opinion of it. In this case I still will, but you don’t have to.
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Apr 15, 2020 14:15
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Bust Rodd posted:Like I completely understand Robert goes on to explain that this dude sucks and is weird and a kook. I don’t think their issue is in representing them in a good light, the issue seems to be “why even interview someone who maybe participated in the Israeli POGROM... at all?” quote:So, I was out nowhere adjacent. I was in a rural town that was kinda bordered by loving nowhere. This would've been five, six years ago with my partner at the time, and it was around Thanksgiving. We were out on the town, walking around, and she had an Israeli Air Force shirt on. It was not a political statement. I don't think either of us were... Yeah, she liked the logo on it, it's a shirt she'd had for years. So she's wearing this shirt, and a guy picks it out. And he's like "hey, it's good to see somebody else who likes Israel, you know I was in the IDF." And we're like "oh, cool" and we talked for like ten minutes. And he invites us over to his house for dinner for the night. And this is a guy... late forties, early fifties, something like that. Does not sound Israeli, he sounds very American. But you know, there's a sizable number of American-born Jewish folks who went to Israel, served in the IDF, then came back, just a thing that happens. So no alarm bells yet, just this nice guy who invites us out to his farm. And the story goes on from there about how he was a huge weirdo with a child bride. Make of it what you will.
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Apr 15, 2020 14:44
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I remember someone in C-SPAM claiming Robert was a CIA asset because of his association to Bellingcat. Or maybe they were talking about another Robert Evans. In any case, people say things. 
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Apr 15, 2020 17:08
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Bust Rodd posted:Like I completely understand Robert goes on to explain that this dude sucks and is weird and a kook. I don’t think their issue is in representing them in a good light, the issue seems to be “why even interview someone who maybe participated in the Israeli POGROM... at all?” Except, you see, that isn't what happened, which is why I went back to the well of "maybe listen to the interview" because you didn't seem to grok that. The segment was entirely "this is a story about a crazy dude my ex-partner and I met in the woods years ago," as Generic American's quote indicates. At no point was the individual "interviewed," this was a story from the host's lived experience of meeting this specific guy and boggling somewhat at the Bud K Catalog level of crazy knives the dude had lying around before being introduced to his child bride. In the context of "I think a lot of affluent or city-dwelling Americans don't quite get how many mind-bogglingly strange people there are out in the wilds of rural America, let's try and fill in that gap" it fit, but this isn't a story he went and sought out for the episode. I'm entirely on board with the notion that maybe white USAians (a number among which I regretfully must fall) need to listen to PoC, this is a good thing and anyone who argues otherwise is a dummy. And frankly I think Israel is an apartheid state complicit in a number of crimes against humanity for which it has not been made to pay. But like three people showed up to go "yeah I listened to the ep and that conclusion feels like kind of a reach to me," and your response was to keep going back to the well of "look I don’t think complicity with the Israeli regime is a good thing" rather than actually engaging with any of the contents of any of those responses - which, for me at least, made it seem like your mind was already made up, especially in that I hadn't seen the number of times you edited in a "look I'll listen to the episode" statement in prior responses. Y'know?
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Apr 15, 2020 19:40
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MonsieurChoc posted:I remember someone in C-SPAM claiming Robert was a CIA asset because of his association to Bellingcat. i see that on this site from time to time and getting weirdly more prevelant as the various weird purity bullshit kicks up after the primary shitshow. also that robert is way to hard on the communists/USSR/assad etc.
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Apr 15, 2020 20:18
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the Israeli government / military are guilty of horrific crimes against the Palestinian people and I'm real bummed by that. My ex was not wearing the shirt for any political reason. This was years ago and she was a country girl who grew up with literally no education about any of this. She thought the shirt looked neat and had been wearing it for years, so it was worn down to a very comfy level. This was before either of us had really traveled to the Middle East or given much thought to Palestine. I thought it was clear from the story that: 1. This guy absolutely did not serve in the IDF 2. He was a dangerously unhinged person I'm completely baffled that folks would assume I'm pro-Israel from the fact that I chose not to go on a rant about the occupation during an episode that was not at all focused on that subject.
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Apr 15, 2020 21:21
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GunFondler42069 posted:This was before either of us had really traveled to the Middle East or given much thought to Palestine. It's easy to underestimate how incredibly propagandized Israel is to most American, and how most of us didn't know any better until it was all revealed. For me it was a conference during Human Sciences week at my Cegep (this weird thing between high school and university we have here in Quebec) where a journalist exposed how Palestinians lived and how she couldn't show any of it on air. She worked for Radio-Canada, our national tv channel. This must have been in 2005-2006.
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Apr 15, 2020 21:52
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yeah. Every now and then I'll get complaints like "why haven't you covered [x]" or even "because you haven't done an episode about [y] you must support it" and the reality of the situation is that there's more horrible crimes being perpetuated around the globe than I could ever possibly cover and I tend to focus mostly on stuff that's already in my area of knowledge because it's easier for me to cover competently and in a timely fashion. Episodes like Modi take me twice as long to do because I just knew gently caress-all about Indian politics going into it.
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Apr 15, 2020 21:56
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GunFondler42069 posted:yeah. Every now and then I'll get complaints like "why haven't you covered [x]" or even "because you haven't done an episode about [y] you must support it" and the reality of the situation is that there's more horrible crimes being perpetuated around the globe than I could ever possibly cover and I tend to focus mostly on stuff that's already in my area of knowledge because it's easier for me to cover competently and in a timely fashion. Episodes like Modi take me twice as long to do because I just knew gently caress-all about Indian politics going into it. No, Robert, you have to be an expert on ALL the bastards and their situations. Every single one.
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Apr 15, 2020 22:46
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I would not worry too much about making a twitter dweller mad when that person has special acronyms to denote people who disagree with them. no person alive is more primed to be angry at something than that person. especially when the genesis of the complaint is "told a story touching on israel without saying israel delenda est both before AND after"
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Apr 15, 2020 23:27
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Robert thanks for telling Dan to do more Bill Cooper episodes of Knowledge Fight the last episode was amazing.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:41
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Thank you supremely for that clarification and for all the good stuff you do. Going through my backlog and the child rape academy from Germany was one of the most hosed up things I have ever listened to but goddam if it wasn’t riveting.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:48
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I tell Dan to do a lot of things, mostly felonies. I'm glad he listened finally.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:49
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GunFondler42069 posted:1. This guy absolutely did not serve in the IDF I have been to so many gun shows since I was a kid and have met so many weird fuckers who claim military service they never did. Special Forces or Green Berets is pretty common, but I have met a handful of people who tell everyone they were in the IDF, despite never going further than 30miles from the town they were born in. They're usually just cringy assholes who need to feel that others respect them, but some are genuinely dangerous people like this dude. I really doubt anyone who was ever in the IDF would be into BUDK knives and swords, hell I grew out of my BUDK knife phase by the time I was 15, and I have zero military experience at all. A BUDK knife collection is a huge red flag for a grown man to have, but there's a small chance he's just some not-as-dangerous dirtbag who's always drinking warm beer and hitting a gigantic dirty gravity bong made of a store brand soda 2L bottle, who is also totally down to shoot shotguns off the back porch.
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Apr 16, 2020 01:43
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I don't know how someone can go "known hater of fascism, apartheid and supporter of the Kurds actually really likes the IDF and hates Palestinian rights" Like the double think there is just astounding. But I guess in this world if you don't explicitly call something out than you're all for it according to Twitter. Testekill fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Apr 16, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2020 01:44
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People make logical leaps about me that are real interesting. The most recent one I encountered was somebody in the subreddit claiming I'd never cover Jeff Bezos because iHeart/ClearChannel wouldn't let me. They said it with such certainty as if there's not a live episode that includes me urging a crowd of human beings to buy bolt cutters and break into Bezos's house. (For the record I haven't covered Bezos yet because I'm pretty sure he's boring as a person and I just haven't gotten around to figuring out how to highlight his awfulness in an entertaining way.)
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Apr 16, 2020 02:29
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GunFondler42069 posted:People make logical leaps about me that are real interesting. The most recent one I encountered was somebody in the subreddit claiming I'd never cover Jeff Bezos because iHeart/ClearChannel wouldn't let me. They said it with such certainty as if there's not a live episode that includes me urging a crowd of human beings to buy bolt cutters and break into Bezos's house. What is your connection to ClearChannel/iHeart, if you don’t mind the question? Does your podcast/the rest of the podcasts on the network have much in the way of oversight by them? How strict are things behind the scenes? Is it still sort of a Wild West type thing, or more controlled?
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Apr 16, 2020 02:32
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IHeartRadio (which used to be ClearChannel if I understand correctly) bought Stuff Media a year or so ago, right before I was hired full timer. I was originally a contract employee, signed on to produce just my show, but then it became a huge hit and they gave me a salary and healthcare etc. I also get a cut of ad revenue which is currently quite lucrative, hence why I have not engaged in further crowdfunding. There is no behind the scenes control. Believe me or not, but I've never been told by anyone at all at iHeart what I can and cannot cover. My bosses love my work and are like, unreasonably positive about everything I do. When I said, "I just got back from Syria and I wanna talk about this quasi-anarchist feminist political experiment for seven hours" they said "we'd love to produce that show" and that was the end of the discussion. As a creative professional I don't think I could ask for a more supportive working environment.
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Apr 16, 2020 02:37
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