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Zero VGS posted:Maybe on babby difficulty mode... okay but you were just complaining that doing this on hardcore took way too long and was tedious so which is it? just shoot the bastards,the game gives you more ammo than you'll ever need
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Apr 18, 2020 07:54
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Sharkopath posted:I played Re4 for the second time this last week and it still rules and is excellently playable. A remake that unlocked the controls would be an entirely new game that could be better but could also be worse because of how interlocked all the game design decisions of 4 are. 4's a rather deliberately paced and tactical game that derives the hectic action from enclosing the player in environments that are more often cramped than not and then surrounding the player with enemies that are also slow and deliberate but deadly if you don't manage them properly. The controls take some getting used to but they also greatly contribute to that claustrophobic high pressure feeling that is the game moment to moment. Leon can reposition for better advantage in combat but he can't dance around enemies easily. You start messing with variables and I think the game does have a chance to fall apart. If leon is more agile and more easily able to navigate the environment it means the slow dread of groups of enemies approaching you is lessened unless the enemies are also made more agile. At that point I'd argue modifying the game that much makes it a different experience. The gameplay of RE4 is certainly an large part of the experience, but I think the mood and the setting are much more important to making it the game it is. I think you're overstating that and I can't imagine that it would be ruined by letting you slowly shuffle back and forth instead of being rooted to the ground. Many of the games that followed it managed fine. It would take some adjustments, of course, but I think you can have a good Resident Evil 4 even with modernized controls.
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Apr 18, 2020 08:10
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there is no slow dread of approaching ganados because they all immediately sprint into melee distance and then conveniently forget they're allowed to move toward you edit: i hesitate to say this unless i am forgetting something other than the three regenerators you fight in the entire game but i dont think i would ever use "slow dread" to describe any aspect of RE4 rabidsquid fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 08:12
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Augus posted:okay but you were just complaining that doing this on hardcore took way too long and was tedious so which is it? Especially as Carlos, because the whole time they're stocking you up for the horde section at the end of his part.
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Apr 18, 2020 08:13
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sigher posted:Especially as Carlos, because the whole time they're stocking you up for the horde section at the end of his part. The horde section itself also has way more ammo than you'll ever need, considering the zombies there take like 5 bullets each to kill. The knife is for testing/finishing off floor zombies and that's it; Just Shoot Things.
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Apr 18, 2020 08:18
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DanielCross posted:While this is a neat theory, Umbrella Chronicles has a scenario that details exactly how Wesker got out. Long story short, he was totally winging it while testing out his new powers, kept getting side tracked by Lisa Trevor, and ultimately made it out the front door with seconds to spare.  rabidsquid posted:there is no slow dread of approaching ganados because they all immediately sprint into melee distance and then conveniently forget they're allowed to move toward you
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Apr 18, 2020 08:37
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rabidsquid posted:edit: i hesitate to say this unless i am forgetting something other than the three regenerators you fight in the entire game but i dont think i would ever use "slow dread" to describe any aspect of RE4
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Apr 18, 2020 08:38
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That's part of the fun of RE4. The first few minutes are setting you up for a tense but violent Italian horror movie but then it pulls the rug out from under you and goes "Psyche! We're doing Gymkata!"
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Apr 18, 2020 08:45
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Cardiovorax posted:The twitchy ones, the Iron Maidens, those freaked me the gently caress out. But yeah, there is really no other part of the game that is "scary" in a horror game sense. The village fight is frenetic as hell and will have you panicking your first time through, but there is also nothing slow about it, at all. I wouldn't agree with that at all. The game does a good job of building up dread over new and strange encounters, especially early on. A major issue is that once you know how to play the game those things don't really remain because you've seen the trick already.It's harder to be scared of being stalked by a predator/alien hybrid monster when you know you can rocket launcher it.
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Apr 18, 2020 08:51
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That seems more like a general rule of life. If rocket launcher didn't solve your problem, you didn't use enough rocket launcher.
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Apr 18, 2020 09:06
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Cardiovorax posted:That seems more like a general rule of life. If rocket launcher didn't solve your problem, you didn't use enough rocket launcher. Play Alien: Isolation, it doesn't matter that you have the Flamethrower and a ton of fuel for it, that fucker will always get your palms sweating even if you have the means of repelling it.
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Apr 18, 2020 09:13
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I mean 99% of multiplayer games wither on the vine, so I agree with you in principle, but it's sad to see a game with some potential take a big old dump. Especially because the concept of "Resident Evil Mastermind torments four dorks with traps, zombos, and BOWs" is awesome. The worst part is that it kind of feels good until you actually play it. I played the tutorials and was like "oh wow this actually kind of looks and feels like RE. Kind of reminded me of Revelations with a bit of the remakes thrown in, so I thought I might be on board. Then after a few rounds I couldn't delete it off my hard drive quick enough. Felt like it was made by people with a good idea and no idea how to execute it well. It seems like maybe there's an OK game in there somewhere. Like, some people might really latch on to it and play it for a long time and it becomes a cult thing, I dunno. But it's so incredibly boring and uninviting when you are trying to learn it, and the fact that the game doesn't even try to balance the grind is incredibly off putting.
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Apr 18, 2020 09:16
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Augus posted:okay but you were just complaining that doing this on hardcore took way too long and was tedious so which is it? I mean it was mainly one specific zombie that took 39 stabs when the rest have all taken half that, they have wildly varying hitpoints for sure. Of course now I'm up against pale heads which I'm pretty sure can't actually be knifed to death.
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Apr 18, 2020 09:17
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sigher posted:Play Alien: Isolation, it doesn't matter that you have the Flamethrower and a ton of fuel for it, that fucker will always get your palms sweating even if you have the means of repelling it.
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Apr 18, 2020 09:29
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Sharkopath posted:I played Re4 for the second time this last week and it still rules and is excellently playable. A remake that unlocked the controls would be an entirely new game that could be better but could also be worse because of how interlocked all the game design decisions of 4 are. 4's a rather deliberately paced and tactical game that derives the hectic action from enclosing the player in environments that are more often cramped than not and then surrounding the player with enemies that are also slow and deliberate but deadly if you don't manage them properly. The controls take some getting used to but they also greatly contribute to that claustrophobic high pressure feeling that is the game moment to moment. Leon can reposition for better advantage in combat but he can't dance around enemies easily. You start messing with variables and I think the game does have a chance to fall apart. If leon is more agile and more easily able to navigate the environment it means the slow dread of groups of enemies approaching you is lessened unless the enemies are also made more agile. At that point I'd argue modifying the game that much makes it a different experience. You aren't wrong about any of this, but this is the thing. You can't dance around enemies in other RE games either. Being able to inch around while shooting just makes a game feel better to play because it's not at odds with every other shooter out there. Do you think enemies in RE2 or 3 remakes are less threatening than RE4 for this? And if it does break the balance to some extent, could it not be dealt with by some tiny changes like slightly more aggressive or harder to hit enemies? There's a reason the zombies in RE2/3's heads bob around so much. And in the end static shooting in an RE4 remake is just a pipe dream. Releasing a game that controls like that in 2020 would put off the vast majority of newcomers, disappoint a large percentage of RE fans, cause it to get panned critically... all to appease a small number of RE fans that are extremely adverse to change. They aren't going to make a game that alienates the greater population, to appeal to a pretty niche audience of people who love games with ancient controls. It's just not realistic at all.
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Apr 18, 2020 09:38
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Zero VGS posted:I mean it was mainly one specific zombie that took 39 stabs when the rest have all taken half that, they have wildly varying hitpoints for sure. Enemy health in these remakes can vary, there's also a dynamic difficulty system in play that you don't see, but the better you do (the more enemies you kill without taking damage) the harder the game gets and I believe this effects enemy HP as well. Cardiovorax posted:Won't hear me arguing. They're very different games, though. True.
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Apr 18, 2020 09:40
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Alien Isolation rules. One of the most underrated games of this generation.
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Apr 18, 2020 09:42
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Sucks we'll never see a sequel because it didn't sell 2 billion copies like SEGA expected it to.
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Apr 18, 2020 09:46
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It was a dark few years there, where publishers were publicly announcing that if their games didn't sell outlandish numbers of copies, no sequel would be made. Right up there with when they tried to hose people for buying used copies of games by locking basic content behind DLC passes. RIP Alien Isolation you deserved a sequel.
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Apr 18, 2020 09:55
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After Gearbox defrauded SEGA with the Aliens: Colonial Marines debacle I can see them being a bit sour on that franchise.
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Apr 18, 2020 10:03
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Captain Hygiene posted:What if Krauser shows up Unlikely. It's been a long time
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Apr 18, 2020 10:15
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“go back and replay re4, you’ll see what a terrible game it is” “Actually I did, it’s still excellent and here’s how its design helps it achieve its goals:” “ridiculous! Why even bother having a discussion if you’re going to engage in bad faith”
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Apr 18, 2020 12:32
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"go back and replay re4, you'll see that it can actually be improved upon in several ways" is what was actually said, you drooling idiot
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Apr 18, 2020 12:35
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Bonaventure posted:“ridiculous! Why even bother having a discussion if you’re going to engage in bad faith” Bonaventure posted:it’s because you suck OP it is a mystery
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Apr 18, 2020 12:49
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veni veni veni posted:you think enemies in RE2 or 3 remakes are less threatening than RE4 for this? I think you're missing the point by asking this question. The point is not that RE4's enemies are perfect and cannot be bettered, but that the way you fight them and the places you fight them in are specifically tailored around how the movement and aiming controls work. The same is true of the enemies in RE2 and 3, which are designed around a very, very different moving style. They're technically both third-person shooters, but there's a lot of variety within that genre.
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Apr 18, 2020 12:56
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RE4's gameplay can't be "improved" by making it a different experience. You might say that it's more fun, but at a certain point it stops being "RE4's gameplay", much like how RE2 1998's gameplay is fundamentally not the same thing as RE2 2019's gameplay, even if a lot of the core concepts have still been carried over. e: For another example, you could try to just change the movement without changing everything else - the RE1 remake's rereleases did that, and the new movement style makes running away from zombies with the stick controls a fundamentally different experience. Without changing the level and enemy design to suit the new aiming mechanic, it feels like a cheat, or an extra feature awkwardly bolted onto a game in which it doesn't belong. cargohills fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 12:58
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cargohills posted:RE4's gameplay can't be "improved" by making it a different experience. You might say that it's more fun, but at a certain point it stops being "RE4's gameplay", much like how RE2 1998's gameplay is fundamentally not the same thing as RE2 2019's gameplay, even if a lot of the core concepts have still been carried over.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:01
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All the senses that matter, apart from everything about the moment to moment gameplay of moving around and shooting zombies.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:03
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cargohills posted:All the senses that matter, apart from everything about the moment to moment gameplay of moving around and shooting zombies.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:04
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I'm not sure what point you think you're making there. Things other than those gameplay mechanics are component pieces of the game, yes. But gameplay... is also one of those pieces.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:07
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The point is that you can make small improvements to the controls without having it suddenly be a different game. The difference between classic Resident Evil 2 and RE2make is obviously massive, it's fair to call those different games on a very basic level. It's basically a redesign of everything about it. REmake and Resident Evil 1 are still very much the same game, though, and that it had balance issues caused by the new movement controls doesn't really do anything to change that. "It's not the same game because it's not exactly identical" is a useless statement.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:13
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Resident Evil 1 and REmake are not the same game. They are different games with many similarities. Differences include: every graphical asset, the voice acting, the level design, the structure, and some gameplay mechanics. e: And if the "small improvements to the controls" are made without fundamentally changing the rest of the gameplay to fit, they are poo poo changes. REmake as originally made includes many small changes, and the game is based around these changes - they didn't just plop in crimson heads with no other thought. As mentioned already in this thread, the Ganados act the way they do because that's how it worked with the movement mechanics. If you changed the movement without changing the Ganados, they'd be comically easy to defeat. cargohills fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 13:16
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cargohills posted:Resident Evil 1 and REmake are not the same game. They are different games with many similarities. Differences include: every graphical asset, the voice acting, the level design, the structure, and some gameplay mechanics. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 13:21
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Crimson Heads and self defense items alone are a pretty big departure.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:36
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cosign on Alien Isolation being awesome. I'd like to see them apply the formula to other properties. poo poo like Terminator, Halloween, Nightmare on Elm Street...I dunno. It's straight up one of the scariest gaming experiences I've ever had and I'd love a sequel. Surprised there's never been a NOES game. You could probably make something pretty wild. Sorry for being off topic.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:48
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Alien Isolation was recently added to Game Pass. What's the best difficulty to play that on?
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Apr 18, 2020 13:52
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Cardiovorax posted:The twitchy ones, the Iron Maidens, those freaked me the gently caress out. But yeah, there is really no other part of the game that is "scary" in a horror game sense. The village fight is frenetic as hell and will have you panicking your first time through, but there is also nothing slow about it, at all. I'm definitely more stressed out by normal ganados than I am Regenerators. They're one of the least threatening enemies in the game and you never face them in mixed groups of multiple enemies like you do ganados.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:54
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Alien Isolation was recently added to Game Pass. What's the best difficulty to play that on? Hard is "Alien Isolation The Way It Was Meant To Be Played!" to borrow Halo's phrasing. I think it used to be the recommended difficulty at launch but they changed that when they added extra hard and easy.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:55
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BiggerBoat posted:Surprised there's never been a NOES game. You could probably make something pretty wild. Sorry for being off topic. Actually there's an NES game and also a Freddy mode in Dead by Daylight that does some trippy stuff but nothing that you would actually want from that kind of game.  Evil Within 2 actually does a lot of stuff in that vein since it's literally a game about being trapped in a nightmare. That game is a trip and a half.
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Apr 18, 2020 13:55
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Cardiovorax posted:You're not technically wrong about that, well, not about that part of your post, anyway. I just don't think it's a helpful way to look at it, you know what I mean? They also have the same basic gameplay, the same game rules, nearly all the same enemies, take place in the same location and setting, feature the same characters, and have the same basic plot. It's a different and modernized take on the same game concept, but that's why it's called a remake. Anyway, to bring the discussion back to a potential remake of RE4, what do people think are the core aspects of RE4? Would it still be RE4 if you kept the same story and art direction, but the gameplay was changed to that of the RE1 remake? What if you essentially took RE3 gameplay and the far more serious tone of the remakes, dropping midget Napoleon and his magic castle in favor of some dark wet dungeon filled with regenerators and iron maidens? How much can you change before it becomes something else?
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Apr 18, 2020 14:00
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